Sikh Funerals

[Lizard]

Hi I am a Catholic married to a Sikh and hope you wi be able to help me with some answers as I have limited knowledge of the Sikh religion.

To cut a long story short, we have decided to get our children baptized as Catholic. This is not the same as Amrit but more like a naming ceremony.

My mother in law is very upset as she states this prevents my children participating in the lighting of the funeral pyre when she dies and prevents her sole from attaining rest. I do not understand why this would be. Some of my in laws are Hindu and she says it would be ok for them to be Hindu but not Catholic. Since Catholics and Sikhs believe in one God and Hindus believe in many Gods, I cannot understand why there are these differences in acceptance. Please can someone help me understand

[chatanga1]

its your mother in law who needs to understand. lighting of any funeral pyre is not limited to anyone. nobody lights funeral pyres in the west anyway, there are funeral services that do that. The most involvement in this would be pressing the button that takes the coffin into the furnace.

Preventing her soul from getting rest? That sounds so much like hindu thought.

[jaikaara]

people cannot help themselves to rise above greed and anger , how are they going to help someone's soul to go to heaven ? i would suggest you to make your children good human beings who accept the fact that their parents are of different faiths and they learn to respect both the faiths . When they grow older they will decide their path, its a just a thought that i share with you , you decide whats good for you.

Edited March 19, 2013 by jaikaara

[Lizard]

I thank you for your kind advice, and realise I have not really given enough information to explain what I am thinking.

When we married, we agreed that we would let the children decide on their religion when they were older, and bring them up as good people as you suggested. My husband is not a practicing Sikh. I am a practicing Catholic. My mother in law lives with us. She was born a Punjabi Sikh and practices Sikhism, Hinduism and also beloved in superstions, astrology and I think often confused tradition with religion.

As my husband and I have not tried to impose our religions on the children their religious experiences are largely from being with my mother in law. Their understanding of Sikhism is that you put money in the box, have prasad and langar. She will take them to the Hindu temple and do similar. She also used to steal from shops, but when my children started copying I took them to apologies and pay and after that they all stopped.

We like everyone else have difficult times. Just teaching children right and wrong does not help them deal with this. In these situations, my belief in God is my strength. For them to be told by their grandmother that these are due to washing clothes

on Tuesday and Saturday, having a bathroom above the kitchen or because people were bad in a previous life are not helpful.

I have read about the Sikh religion and I agree it is good but I do not want to convert. I want to respect elders but I cannot allow my children to be confused. My husband has a lot of health problems. I try to encourage him to go to the Gudwara with limited success. I want him to tell the children about the Sikh religion when he is well as my knowledge is mainly academic. I want to teach them the Catholic religion to guide them away from superstitions and idolatry. I believe both Sikh and Catholic believe in this.

As said earlier, I wish to respect my elders and I want to take Sikh beliefs into account in making decisions for my family. I do not want to make decisions based on Hinduisim, superstition or other beliefs. I do not know and cannot find information as to whether my mother in laws concerns about funerals are based on the Sikh religion and wanted to find out from a practicing Sikh

Thank you for your help

[jaikaara]

I understand your concern, it is good that you want them to be away from superstitions. The best way you can bring them up is inculcate values in them which are progressive. As a practicing Catholic there are minimal chances of getting away from idolatry. The Roman Catholic's believe in Jesus as the Son of God, Virgin Mary , Holy Ghost adding to Saints and then feasts of saints. There is absolute absence of total surrender to God.

The most simple thing to understand is the reason behind this creation is a Universal Power, He is the Creator, He is Fearless and without any enmity, He is Formless and unborn . It is this Universal spirit that we can pray to without getting into the processes of religion. No rituals required.

Your children will be just believers which is the greatest thing . Remember something there are many mediums to reach God, some pray to idols , others dont . The basic fact is it is just the will to thank the greatness of the Almighty and request Him to take away miseries which has progresses into so many doctrines.

I would have suggested you to read the Akaal Ustat translated as Praises of God by Guru Gobindsingh ji to give you an idea of what it is to totally surrender. However it is in punjabi which you may not be able to read . I will find a translation for you if possible .

Thank you for being patient and visiting this forum for finding the solution. Sikhawareness is a forum which has progressive and patient people.

[Lizard]

Thank you for your reply.

I think there are some misunderstandings about the Carholic faith.

I appreciate the Sikh religion does not accept that Jesus is an incarnation of God, but I am not trying to discuss about religious differences. Mary is not an idol we worship. She is a holy person, similar to the way you might address a Guru. Statues are to focus the mind on prayer not to pray to. Saints are asked to pray to God for us, we do not pray to saints. We want to emulate their good lives

God is beyond our understanding. The Holy Spirit is a part of God like Naam. It is our way of trying to use our limited abilities to understand God.

I do not want to offend the Sikh religion. I understand from your message that being Catholic would not affect the validity of the ceremony. please advise if I am wrong

Thank you

[chatanga1]

Being anything wouldnt invalidate the ceremony. The soul departs with its actions, and actions only, whether you or a holy sikh ignites the funeral pyre, whether you throw the body in the river for fish to eat, or whether you feed the body to vultures. It makes no difference.

[SAadmin]

Chatanga is right here, there are no restrictions in sikh dharam as such as to who does the last rite and gives departed one good bye as each one of us have different karma, we are only judged by our actions- be it good or bad.

[Lucky]

I think there is some confusion with understanding catholics here.

Just as much as we may think that virgin mary statue may be an idol in the same way they think that the pictures of gurus we have are idols !

-The fact is that we are both very wrong !

Some Similarities between Catholicism and Sikhism:

* Catholicism and Sikhism both teach that God is One

* Catholicism and Sikhism teach that God is inexpressible and beyond understanding

* Catholicism and Sikhism both teach that God is everywhere and in everything, that creation is filled with his Presence and that "God is All" (Book of Sirach).

* And yet for Sikhs and Catholics, whilst creation is permeated with the presence and reality of God, he is in all things without being contained by them or limited to them, indeed he both indwells all created things and at the same time transcends them as their ultimate origin and Creator

* Because of this both religions teach that creation is good, the world is good, reality is good and that every place is a meeting point with God and provides us with an opportunity to be in his Presence.

* Catholicism and Sikhism both believe in the brotherhood of all human beings ie that all humanity is one

* Catholicism and Sikhism both believe in the equality of all human beings

* Catholicism and Sikhism both place great emphasis upon the Will of God. This emphasis on following the "Will of God", in Catholicism, as known to one through the dictates of conscience and one's faith to attain to a state of union with God (salvation) rather than "faith alone" as in Islam and Protestantism (where one must generally be a member of these respective religions to attain to "salvation", or go to paradise in Islam) is an important similarity

* Heaven and Hell are defined in both traditions as not being literal "places" but rather spiritual states that can be experuenced in the here and now. Pope Benedict XVI explained that "Heaven is not a place, it is wherever God's Will is done". In Catholicism heaven is within us, a state of mind and being that extends into eternity. Heaven and Hell are subjective human experiences of the Same Divine Reality - God.

* Catholicism and Sikhism both teach that all human beings have their origin in God and that he is our ultimate end. We will all return to Him. In Catholic tradition we all experience the Presence of God after death. As the Catholic declaration Nostra Aetate explains: "All men and women form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth (cf. Acts 17:26), and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all".

* The Ultimate state in both traditions is complete Union with and absorption into God. The Catholic mystics describe this, in the words of Saint Bernard as follows, "...There is a point of rapture where the human spirit forgets itself . . . and passes wholly into God. Such a process is to lose yourself, as it were, like one who has no existence, and to have no self-consciousness whatever, and to be emptied of yourself and almost annihilated. As a little drop of water, blended with a large quantity of wine, seems utterly to pass away from itself and assumes the flavour and colour of wine, and as iron when glowing with fire loses its original or proper form and becomes just like the fire; and as the air, drenched in the light of the sun, is so changed into the same shining brightness that it seems to be not so much the recipient of the brightness as the actual brightness itself: so all human sensibility in the saints must then, in some ineffable manner, melt and pass out of itself, and be lent into the Will of God...To experience this state is to be deified..."

* Both traditions have strong moral teachings against abortion and euthanasia, since both uphold the sanctity of life.

* Both believe that salvation or union with GOD is "open to all" and not just Catholics/Sikhs. God enlightens all people.

* Both traditions believe that there is inspired truth, goodness and grace to be found in all world religions

* Both traditions believe in the underlying unity of all religions

* Sikhism believes that there is no separation between daily life and holiness. There is no division between the profane and sacred. The Adi Granth tells us that, "Spiritual liberation is attained in the midst of laughing, playing, dressing up and eating..." - Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, p 522. Catholicism teaches the same. “There is something holy, something divine, hidden in the most ordinary situations, and it is up to each one of you to discover it. Our ordinary everyday life can be a path to holiness...It is in the midst of the most material things of the earth that we must sanctify ourselves, serving God and all mankind...We cannot live a kind of double life: on the one hand, an interior life, a life of union with God; and on the other, a separate and distinct professional, social and family life. There is just one life, made of flesh and spirit. And it is this life which has to become, in both soul and body, holy and filled with God. Side by side with our colleagues, friends and relatives and sharing their interests, we can help them come closer [to God],” said St. Josemaría Escriva, founder of Opus Dei. Catholics believe that we sanctify God through our work and through the everyday of activities of life and NOT outside of this.

[Lucky]

Chatangaji and Neoji are both very spot on with the funeral and death issue.

It really makes no difference of what happens after death depepnding on how you conduct the funeral or who lights the torch !

Infact, it does state in the maryada that a sikh's body should be cremated and a reading done from the Guru Granth Sahibi ji within 10 days (akhand or sehaj paath)

However,it does state that if a creamtion is not possible diue to geographical or other circumstances then other means may be used such as disposing in flowing water or a burial- but without any such tombstone or landmark.

[Lizard]

I give my heart felt thanks for your answers.

The Sikh religion is a beautiful religion and I would be happy for my children to be Sikh, but my husband is too unwell to guide them and my mother-in-law does not really practice Sikhism

As a mother I feel the children must know God's place in their lives and in their world and so I have to teach them the way I understand best. I will continue to let them experience the beauty if the Sikh religion and if they choose to be confirmed Catholic or take Amrit when they are older, I will be happy either way.

Thank you again for your answers. I truly believe we love the same God.

[jaikaara]

I give my heart felt thanks for your answers.

The Sikh religion is a beautiful religion and I would be happy for my children to be Sikh, but my husband is too unwell to guide them and my mother-in-law does not really practice Sikhism

As a mother I feel the children must know God's place in their lives and in their world and so I have to teach them the way I understand best. I will continue to let them experience the beauty if the Sikh religion and if they choose to be confirmed Catholic or take Amrit when they are older, I will be happy either way.

Thank you again for your answers. I truly believe we love the same God.

I was born hindu , however Sikhi was where i found solace. I am gradually crawling and am still to take decision whether to grow my kes. I too had no personal guidance, in fact i found better and knowledgeable Sikhs here , none in person. Where there is love , the way is made . It will take time and the best thing to do is to discover it yourself.

I too started with opposing rituals and idols, today i dont oppose anything. Live and let Live. Thats it ! There is too much to learn, rather than wasting time and thoughts in opposing let spend time in learning. That is what Sikhi is . Students of Akaal .

[SAadmin]

Lizard, thanks for your response..i totally agree with your statement "I truly believe we love the same God" ... i have been reading the mystic tradition of Christianity -Gnosis..its amazing...it has so many similiarites with spiritual Sikh thought.

[Lucky]

There is as much common with christianity and judaism as there is with hinduism.

I've been enjoying watching 'The Bible' tv series that is smashing the viewing ratings in the last few weeks on the history channel.

For those of you not too aware, it is worth seeing and I would recommend it.