Khalistan In A Day And Three Steps Here's How (Please Read)

[GtLoc]

Our #1 strength is food #2 is armed forces. We do armed struggle we come out # 2 (because of gaddari but still).

Now, do parchaar of organic farming, start uniting some kisans and just for fun start hinting that you might decide to let India starve if you don't get khalistan or more rights.

2nd area to cover is the infrastrucutre like schools, as many plant cash crops to send kids to school; we have our own gurmat schools with money from golak, farmers can plant regular crops or join strike.

3rd area is legal area, fight them there i.e make sure land is not taken.

Done.

VJKVJF

Lol, delhi will come to amritsar at guru ji's feet begging to give sikh raj.

Edited April 21, 2013 by GtLoc

[HSD1]

But what if they see this coming and decide to back off and just cut us off and see how long they can live without us? Okay, we'll be good for food, but what do we do about airspace and who gets Kashmir and all the other things?

To be honest getting Punjab free is just half the battle. What happens after is just as important. What kind of political parties would there be to vote for or would it be the same old same old? What role would religion play, seeing what a mess most of our institutions and general population are in? What would our relationship with the outside world be?

Half of the stuff we want to do in Khalistan could be done right now in Punjab, it's just that Sikhs in the diaspora arent keen on changing the status quo and the police/politicians there are too comfortable creaming off a living from those below them. Add to that how most East Punjabis are so desperate to do better for themselves or even survive in some cases that they will do anything to get ahead. Giving thousands of pounds to visa agencies to end up as a builder/prostitute in the West or paying dodgy talent agents to create music albums that no one will buy shows a people not really with it. If they had their own country, they would leave it the next day. Who could blame them? We in the West say a lot, but when it comes down to it it is just triumphalism of those who got here and look down on those still there.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

But what if they see this coming and decide to back off and just cut us off and see how long they can live without us? Okay, we'll be good for food, but what do we do about airspace and who gets Kashmir and all the other things?

To be honest getting Punjab free is just half the battle. What happens after is just as important. What kind of political parties would there be to vote for or would it be the same old same old? What role would religion play, seeing what a mess most of our institutions and general population are in? What would our relationship with the outside world be?

Half of the stuff we want to do in Khalistan could be done right now in Punjab, it's just that Sikhs in the diaspora arent keen on changing the status quo and the police/politicians there are too comfortable creaming off a living from those below them. Add to that how most East Punjabis are so desperate to do better for themselves or even survive in some cases that they will do anything to get ahead. Giving thousands of pounds to visa agencies to end up as a builder/prostitute in the West or paying dodgy talent agents to create music albums that no one will buy shows a people not really with it. If they had their own country, they would leave it the next day. Who could blame them? We in the West say a lot, but when it comes down to it it is just triumphalism of those who got here and look down on those still there.

Sant Jarnail Singh Ji used to say become Khalsa first (not saying you are not) but if we become Khalsa, others follow suite and then.....the entire creation is ours!!!

[GtLoc]

http://www.khalistan.net/?p=910

Punjab is being bled dry.

[user2969]

... We in the West say a lot, but when it comes down to it it is just triumphalism of those who got here and look down on those still there.

Don't look down on 'those still there'. Most of those who come from cities in Punjab, regret coming here. India on whole is doing a lot well as compared to before in terms of economics. In India for those students who have good marks and good degrees, jobs are available and pretty well paid too. Whereas over here in west we do hard labour most of the time.

( please note that I not saying that Punjab is without problems. There are plenty of them too)

Sikhs here in west talk about Khalistan, whereas nobody in Punjab even mentions that let alone want that. Creating a Khalistan is useless Utopian ideal at least in today's situation.

The focus should be :

1. Becoming better human beings

2. Treating others better

3. Becoming more spiritual (have a desire of spirituality, in our case it will be gurbani, naam simran)

4. Spreading this spirituality to others (but only in a gentle way, not aggressive selling)

5. Fighting for Truth and justice (this of course includes the Sikh issues of the current and past)

If you take the present day Punjab and create a Khalistan out of it, it shall nothing more than a new political state. Will it be a state which runs on high morals? I highly doubt it.

[GtLoc]

I was playing devil's advocate, we should not kill millions or billions.

However, yes the cities are good and it's better than living like a dog. However, farmers are debt slaves if you don't want to do anything don't.

However, there are those for whom the taste of their own blood has no equal, and

VJKVJF||

Jado Vi To Quomch Tou Gaddar Nikale

Udo Hi Miyaan cho Talwaar Nikale||

I don't post the full songs, cuz it's seva go buy their albums and support.

Not advertising, and I am affilitated with them. As, we part of the same family and quom||

Ban me.

Edited May 7, 2013 by GtLoc

[PAL 07]

Farming is no longer economically viable, this is central govt tactic, the costs are too high and the returns are too low. Many farmers are selling off the land. Only poor farmers are taking on rented acres and even after heavy work loads are making only minimum returns. One acre yield is 30000 Rs minus expenses per harvest, wheras you can rent it for the market rate of 10000RS. Most farmers have only one or two acres. With the drugs use revolution in Punjab many are also selling their land. Many are also selling off to get their children out of the country or to pay for other costs. Now central government are imposing tax on lands which Badal has voiced concern over. Already hotel owners and banquet hall owners and large restaurants are paying land tax. This is a further approach of central government to plunder Punjab state. Ultimately their attack is on the vast population of proud Jatt Sikhs who live off the land and are also predominantly orthodox Sikhs aswell. The underlying aim is the commercialization of Punjabs vaste fertile plains with the government pulling the strings and making the money.

[JungChamkaur]

Singo, I am against Khalistan. I lean towards the idea brought by the Bhai Sahib at "Basics of Sikhi". I believe it is Punjabi arrogance and ignorance that wants Khalistan. We need Hazur Sahib and Patna Sahib... this punjab-centric idea of a Sikh state is completely ignorant of non-Punjabi Takht Sahibs. Also, I love the idea of making more Sikhs in India. Why keep Gurbani limited to Punjab? That too, the Punjab in India. What about Shri Nankana Sahib? Khalistan is not the way to go. I am against the creation of Pakistan, so Khalistan is just adding salt to the wound.

As for the farmer's rights, this is not only a Punjab issue. This is an issue with our current form of capitalism as a whole. Farmers of all castes, religions and creeds are at threat in the contemporary economic system. Please look into Dr. Vandana Shiva and Monsanto. The revelations of UK's involvement in 1984 Saka will also become more relevant as you understand Dr. Shiva's work on the Green Revolution. The reason the govt attacked Harimandir Sahib is because the Sikhs would have went against corporatism and the capitalist system. The notion of Khalistan was exalted as the primary objective of Sikhs in the 80s because they do not want Sikhs to start fighting across India against corporations like Coca Cola and Monsanto. If we Sikhs do not fight for the liberation of India, then who will? The govt has already taken away the weapons of Rajputs and domesticated a large number of them. The Sikhs are left and it is imperative we grasp a deep understanding of capitalism and corporatism and fight to free all of India and establish an indigenous-knowledge based education system.

The RSS, the Arya Samaj and the notions of Khalistan are all ideas imported into India to establish a neoliberal capitalist regime.

Satnaam.

[tonyhp32]

It's amazing that people have not moved on from the outdated rhetoric of the 80s such as Sikhs shouldn't get Khalistan because we would make a hash of it. If that was the sole criteria for the creation of a country then most countries even the USA should never have been created,

One thing that people don't realise is that the creation of a country creates such an impetus and feeling to make a success of that new state among the citizens of the new country. If you think that the likes of Badal or his useless family can rule in Khalistan then you are wrong.

[tonyhp32]

Khalistan has never been presented as a Jat idea. If it was solely a Jat idea then why did militants who were from other castes also take part in the movement? It suits your Hindu agenda to present Khalistan as a Jat idea and a place where Jats will rule as some kind of master race. The three classes of people that matter with regard to the Khalistan movement are-;

1. The SC Sikhs who are 28% of the Sikh population and 16% of the total population of Punjab.

2, The non-SC Sikhs who are the other 72% of the Sikh population and 44% of the total population of Punjab

3. The SC Hindu population who are 11% of the population of Punjab.

The rest of the Hindu population who are 29% don't figure much in the equation because if the Sikhs can bring the nominally Hindu SCs around to supporting Khalistan then the Brahmin-Bania combine is finished in Punjab. Of ths 29% if you remove the Bhaiya element then this class of the population comes to just 19% of the population of Punjab. The Bhaiya either have no link with Punjab or a substantial element will go with Khalistan if it is presented as it should be, a country where everyone has a stake and their human rights are protected.

[Jonny101]

Khalistan is just a starting point. Eventually all of India will become part of Khalsa Raaj. When India is under the rule of the Khalsa, Dharm will prevail and it will be like the return of Satyug. Had the Sikhs won during the Anglo Sikh wars, India would have come under Khalsa Raaj way back then. But that was just a temporary setback. Khalsa Raaj will eventually happen, first in Punjab then in all of India.

[tonyhp32]

Ravidassia's are Chamar Hindus from the Doaba who also who due to the primacy of Sikh culture in Punjab had incorporated Sikh rites and rituals in their mode of worship. The Sikh Chamars are Ramdasias not Ravidassia and they are Chamars mainly from Malwa but from Doaba and Majha as well.

The Ravidassia Chamars had always been attempting to leave the Hindu religion, a religion which they had been placed into by the British census authorities mainly because they were neither Muslim nor Sikh. In the 1930's they declared their religion as Ad Dharm which failed to take off because it was confined to a few lakh Hindu Chamars and a few thousand Hindu Chuhras. Now these same people are attempting to start a new religion based on the Bhagat Ravidassji. Good luck to them, ideally they should have followed the Ramdasia Sikhs into Sikhi but they did not and that is their choice. This Ravidassia thing has only taken off because unlike the Balmiki/Mazhabi Chuhras a signiificant number of Chamars have never fully become Sikhs and have remained in the middle space between Hinduism and Sikhism. These Chamars who are always classed as Hindu in the census are about 49% of the total chamars whereas the same people among the Balmiki Chuhras only number 20%, because 80% of all Balmiki/Mazhabis are Sikhs.

Ravidassia Dharam will go the same way as Ad Dharm did and the same away as the Buddhist movement among the SCs went after in the 1990s, because it will never go beyond the Hindu Chamars. The Sikh Chuhras who number double the amount of the Hindu Chamars have not been affected by the Ballan people. How long they will survive is a good question, especially as there is active opposition to their move from the Hindu Chamars who want to keep their links with Sikhism.

The biggest losers in all this are the Hindus because if even a half of the Hindu Chamars register themselves as Ravidassia then the Hindu population will go down and they might even lose their majorities in the Doaba.

[dalsingh101]

Has there not been a sustained trend not to treat so-called low caste Sikhs as equals by the mainstream/ majority of Sikhs. Do Sikhs not have any culpability in how things have transpired.

I ask this because I think certain people like to turn a blind eye to any Sikh wrong doing in this area, when anyone with even a tiny piece of heart and conscience knows that we weren't angels ourselves.

It just looks like yet another area of that famous Sikh denial mentality.

[JungChamkaur]

How come no one replied to my post and just went towards everything Sher said? This is not about Dalits and Ramdasias or Ravidasias. The idea of Khalistan was propogated in Punjab so Sikhs will be portrayed as anti-nationalist in the Indian Media and be isolated from the sympathy of the rest of the nation. The Gurmatta of 1986 established by us was to free the rest of India from the clutches of Capitalism and from the clutches of the "Brahmin-Bania nexus of Delhi". I refrain from using the terms Brahmin and Bania to refer to the Elitist core of Delhi, because this makes it seem like all Brahmins are anti-Sikh when we have people like Bhai Mati Das and Sati Das Ji that came from that community. Nevertheless, the idea is the same. Khalistan should be all over India, not only in Punjab. I always get annoyed when I see Punjabis acting like they have inherited a monopoly on Gurbani and our Guru Sahibaan. As Sikhs we have to fight for national freedom, not for regional. We should spread Sikhi throughout India. Please look into Dr. Vandana Shiva and her book entitled; The Violence of the Green Revolution. Also, look into Antonio Gramsci's Prison Notebooks, the writings of Sardar Bhagat Singh and the various pamphlets, articles etc. distributed by the Ghadar Party. I used to be naive like everyone else here before. However, when you read outside our little frame of Punjabi Sikhs, then you will see the true motive behind propogating the idea of Khalistan in Punjab. It completely ignores our rights as armed Singhs to roam India freely all the way to Nanded and Patna. Khalistan, as Basics of Sikhi also agrees, should be all over India. And lets not try to use the term Khalistan either. It is a fake name like Pakistan is. Pakistan is a fake nation carved out of Punjab (India), Kashmir (India), Sindh (India) Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (Afghanistan), and Balochistan (separated in Iran and Iraq as well). We should expand Sikhi, not limit it to the confines of Punjab. Pehli Patshahi Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj went all over the world... why are we so Punjab-centric? I understand we have ethnic relations to Punjab and this is good but it should not forbid us from preaching Sikhi to the rest of India. I understand the Gurmatta of Khalistan that was passed in 1986 by Sant Thakur SinghJi, but at the same time, that Khalistan was not a mere secession of Punjab from India, it was to free India from the clutches of the select few corporatists who were selling Punjab to Monsanto, selling other Indian areas to Coca Cola etc. We need a native manufacturing industry, that is what swatantra is. That is what Swaraj is. Before this Khalistan notion and the Green Revolution, Punjab was self sufficient and every household/village was a self sustaining community. We, as farmers especially, did not have to go to the local hatti for anything except salt. Farmers were self sufficient. Now their trying to introduce property tax in Punjab as well. This is true slavery. We have to hold our ethnic roots close and claim ownership of all India and spread Sikhi throughout India via an Indigenous knowledge-based education system. Please read about the Ghadar Party ideology and Vandana Shiva's work: The Violence of the Green Revolution.

[tonyhp32]

The idea that the whole of India can have Khalsa Raj is a fool's notion. Those that espouse this are detached from reality. Think about this, how is it that even 50 years after the creation of Punjabi suba we have been unable to ensure Khalsa Raj in Punjab where we are 60% of the population but all of a sudden we can ensure Khalsa Raj in the whole of India where we are only 2% of the population.

The idea you are espousing was first espoused by anti-Khalistanis who wanted to take the steam out of the Khalistan movement. The aim of this idea was to make Sikhs divert from an aim ie Khalistan which was in the realms of possibility into an aim which was impossible.

Trying for Khalsa Raj in India while not having a secure and safe base even in Punjab can never succeed, If you want to aim for Khalsa Raj in India then your first step should be to make Khalsa Raj or Khalistan in Punjab,

The way to ensure Khalsa Raj in Punjab is to increase the Sikh population in Punjab in the first instance. The Anti-Sikh RSS and BJP are doing the exact opposite by ensuring that lakhs of Bhaiyas from UP and Bihar are settling in Punjab and bringing the Sikh percentage down, Had there been no movement and settlement of Bhaiyas in Punjab, the Sikhs would be been 70% of the population of Punjab making Punjab 'Sikhi da Garh' and the movement of HIndus towards Sikhism would have been greater. You would have had a Khalistan in all but name and the Akalis would not need to have had any alliance with the Lalas of the BJP. Fools like Sher would not have been crowing about the imaginary coming demise of the Khalsa like he does here and it would be the Punjabi HIndu who would have been on his way to becoming a museum piece,

Edited February 20, 2014 by tonyhp32

[JungChamkaur]

It is not a fools notion at all. I guess you completely ignored the fact that two of our main Takhts are outside of Punjab. The idea of Punjab-centric Khalistan is completely foolish. We already lost Nankana Sahib... Once we lose two more Takhts, we will be without two takhts related to Dasmesh Pitaji and our SGPC controlled Akal Takht would continue to keep Shri Dasam Granth Sahibji out of Akal Takht. Without those two Takhts we will be stripped from our relation to Dasmesh Pitaji. If you think it is in Sikhi's interest to be limited to the confines of Punjab then you are lost indeed. Why not make the Bhaiyas Sikh? Is it because you cannot fathom the thought of making lower caste individuals into Khalsay? As far as the idea of Punjab being a "Sikh" state because 70% of the population will be "Sikh" goes, you are gravely mistaken....

Tell me one thing: how old are you?

You do realize that there are various Deras across Punjab right? If we count them as separate, then god knows what population ascribes to real Sikhi. You also need to realize that now about 75% of Punjabis aged 18-35 are addicted to drugs and this will play a role in changing the demographic nature of Punjab as most drug addicts are impotent and do not get married. Then there are the GMO foods we are eating and planting everyday, the cancer from pesticide use and the polluted water. I am not sure which world you live in.. but Khalsa Raj can only happen if Sikhi expands and attracts people from diverse backgrounds and if we Punjabi Sikhs allow other communities to experience Gurbani.

Also, I must admit that the whole country will probably not become Sikh. However, I think that we would not have problems with non-Sikh rulers if they are like Shivaji Maratha or Maharana Pratap Singh and individuals like them. Modern Day individuals who are Hindu but are close to us are people like Shashi Kant and Arvind Kejriwal. Perhaps we cannot have a Khalsa ruling in Delhi like Bhai Baghel Singh but we can definitely have a better government in Delhi that listens to our demands. If we are to have a Khalistan then it better include Nankana Sahib and the Gurukars outside of Punjab. The last thing we need is a punjab-centric notion of Sikhi and our descendants to be looking at pictures of our two Takhts 100 years after Punjab's secession from India as we are looking at the Gurukars in Pakistan today; eroding, neglected and occupied by outsiders.

[tonyhp32]

You are devoid of reality my friend. If the Takhts in Patna and Nander need to be in Khalsa Raj then why not the Gurdwara in Baghdad? So let's aim for Khalsa Raj in Iraq as well. How about the Gurdwaras in Nepal? Let;s have Khalsa Raj in Nepal as well. Let's not overlook the historic Gurdwaras in Afghanistan, so how about aiming for Khalsa Raj in Kabul as well. Tibet, Sri Lanka Kazakhstan, let's just aim to take over the whole of Asia while we are at it. Hey let's forget the fact that no movement can expand and no army can fight without first having it's headquarters safe and secure. The Sikh base of Punjab goes down the pan because we don't want to be Punjab centric and save it but Sikhs can still aim for Khalsa Raj in the rest of India!

[Singh123456777]

Gurdwara in Baghdad Hahaha! That does not exist mate, get some bloody knowledge. stop living in sakhi world.

There is a gurduwara in Baghdad.

[jaikaara]

Veere it was bombed and not in a good condition..it never was in a good condition though..but the plight is worst than before.

Edited February 20, 2014 by jaikaara

[Jonny101]

You are devoid of reality my friend. If the Takhts in Patna and Nander need to be in Khalsa Raj then why not the Gurdwara in Baghdad? So let's aim for Khalsa Raj in Iraq as well. How about the Gurdwaras in Nepal? Let;s have Khalsa Raj in Nepal as well. Let's not overlook the historic Gurdwaras in Afghanistan, so how about aiming for Khalsa Raj in Kabul as well. Tibet, Sri Lanka Kazakhstan, let's just aim to take over the whole of Asia while we are at it. Hey let's forget the fact that no movement can expand and no army can fight without first having it's headquarters safe and secure. The Sikh base of Punjab goes down the pan because we don't want to be Punjab centric and save it but Sikhs can still aim for Khalsa Raj in the rest of India!

very true. Before looking outward, first Sikhs need a secure base in the form of Khalistan. Only after this will Khalsa Raaj expand.

ਪਿਹਲਾ ਖੜ੍ਹਣ ਲਈ ਜਗਾ ਬਣਾ ਲਈਏ, ਬਾਚੋਂ ਬੈਟਨ ਲਈ ਜਗਾ ਭੀ ਬਣਾ ਲਵਾਂਗੇ

[Jonny101]

Mind if i ask you what kind of weed you take? asking you as you stopped with india

The same weed Bhagat Singh, Kartar Singh Sarabha and Udham Singh took. Don't be too confident. Circumstances will not remain the same. India is surrounded by hostile nations who want nothing but bad for India. Possibly It is in that chaos and confusion that Khalsa Raaj/Khalistan will happen. Only Guru Sahib knows how He will keep the Laaj of this Panth and grant them Raaj.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Jonny101

[Genie Singh]

The baghdad place was technically a dharamshala rather then a gurdwara since it doesn't have a guru granth sahib installed. But pir dastagir met guru nanak there so the place onwards was a monument to him. It's been destroyed several times.

[Jonny101]

The weed taken by Bhagat, Udham and kartar singh is called Desh Prem. I wonder what they would have done with traitors asking for division of their revered motherland.

India is strong and would continue to tackle khalibans with danda they deserve. absolutely no support for khalistan in Punjab. Sikhs in Punjab (one of the most prosperous state of India) enjoying complete freedom. Guru sahib has much larger laaj (Hind di laaj) to keep, don't make him look like a petty sectarian like yourself.

If Bhagat Singh, Udham Singh and Kartar Singh were alive during 1984 and saw what Indira Gandhi did to their Punjab and their peole, they would have joined the other Sikh youth militants in their fight against injustice. Udham Singh would have probably done what Satwant Singh-Beant Singh or Sukha-Jinda did. Khalistani militants took much of their inspiration from these great men.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Jonny101

[JungChamkaur]

I cant comment on Udham Singh, but he was definitely a Marxist. He also had religious sentiments. My family personally knows Bhagat Singhs family and are related to them too and he was an atheist and died and atheist and was born into a Arya Samaji family. Regardless, Khalistan is something that tells us to forget about our ethnic roots and I am not OK with that. The idea that our new religion can claim ownership of an ancient land bothers me. Its similar to the USA takeover of America, and Canada etc. I dont know about you guys but I am against colonialism and Khalistan is just like Pakistan-- a fake nation. Makes no sense whatsoever. Might as well try to change our Gurus names too and our Shaheeds names from Sanskrit-origin to Tamil-origin names and try to take away our links to the whole country. I dont know why our people like to think that Punjab is our Jagir or something. Its not.

[Jonny101]

You are absolutely wrong! Bhagat Singh & co were not sectarian. Bhagat Singh, few months before his death, wrote an essay claiming he was an atheist. Udham singh gave his name as Ram Mohammad Singh Azad when arrested. Bhagat Singh family was Arya Samaji we all know that (mother name Vidyawati). The trio would have fought the terrorists who were primarily responsible for op Blue star and for killing hundreds (before 1984) of innocent Punjabis.

wow, first Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and now Bhagat Singh and Udham Singh as well? I must hand it to you. I have seen a lot of shameless people in my life but you will be one of the most memorable ones. I have seen the interview of Bhagat Singh's sister in which the interviewer asked her whether or not their family ever did paath when growing up. She said, her mother would recite paath for all the children daily, when he grew up he temporarily became an atheist but again became a believer in Sikhi while in jail and even grew his Kesh before dying something that hindus do not like to show in their bollywood movies.. And Udham Singh wanting to represent the entire Indian nation gave the honour to Hindus and Muslims by having that name. You should not confuse this nice gesture as proof of him not being a Sikh. The man took revenge for hundreds of Hindus and Muslims dying and what do Hindus do? they killed many times more of his people in 84 than had in jillianwala bagh massacre by the British.

By the way, new research into Udham Singh suggests, that name was Mohammad Singh Azad. The Ram part was later added by Hindus.

My family were also atheists types who had the typical habits of Punjabis(drinking, cutting hair, partying) before operation blue star. The suffering caused by Operation bluestar moved the Sikhs so much that my entire family became practicing Sikhs. This is the story of many people. Sikh freedom fighters who had fought for India's freedom, had they been young men during the 80s, they would have done what thousands of Sikh youth did by picking up the gun against the oppression being done on their people.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Jonny101