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no one is forcing. if you take amrit.. you are VERY VERY LUCKY, but you can meet Guru ji without amrit also.

Therez no amrit shaking one day. If you want to shawk it . Then shawk it now. Find out the Gurudwara and go shawk it. We should not wait for amrit.

Above is straight force.

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o no another dodgy thread. there isnt any such thing as love. its a concentration of moh and kaam. guruji says a gursikh must marry only another gursikh, i dont think we need to explain why.

I don't think you have the right to make such a sweeping and inaccurate statement merely because you are religious.

If you ARE going to make it then YES you do need to explain it.

There is a such thing as love...I've experienced it. People the world over have..are we all then delusional or just lust filled deviants?

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its not a sweeping or inaccurate statement. and neither would i term myself as religious - im not even amritdhari yet!!!!!!!

there is definately a gurmat quote to show there is no such thing as love, but i cant remember it. heres one which is good, but not as good.

dhaevugu(n)dhhaaree mehulaa 9 ||

Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree, Ninth Mehl:

juguth mai jhoot(h)ee dhaekhee preeth ||

In this world, I have seen love to be false.

apunae hee sukh sio subh laagae kiaa dhaaraa kiaa meeth ||1|| rehaao ||

Whether they are spouses or friends, all are concerned only with their own happiness. ||1||Pause||

maero maero subhai kehuth hai hith sio baadhhiou cheeth ||

All say, ""Mine, mine"", and attach their consciousness to you with love.

a(n)th kaal su(n)gee neh kooo eih achuruj hai reeth ||1||

But at the very last moment, none shall go along with you. How strange are the ways of the world! ||1||

mun moorukh ajehoo neh sumujhuth sikh dhai haariou neeth ||

The foolish mind has not yet reformed itself, although I have grown weary of continually instructing it.

naanuk bhoujul paar purai jo gaavai prubh kae geeth ||2||3||6||38||47||

O Nanak, one crosses over the terrifying world-ocean, singing the Songs of God. ||2||3||6||38||47||

everyone is subject to the 5 sins, so its not like ur a bad person if youve felt "love". just chill guys. only brahmgyanis dont feel the 5 sins.

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Love is not a sin and you can mis/intepret any religious text to back up what you're trying to say.

If we follow the line of logic you're attempting to espouse...you cannot love a man or woman be they you're wife/husband or not. But also you cannot love your family, children and if we take it to its logical conclusion we cannot love God because theres no such thing as love.

Personally, as a human being first I AM capable of love and you must look to yourself to see if you are too. If you are not then the loss appears to be yours my friend.

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the whole idea of sikhi is to be in the midst of the house hold but be unattatched to everything around you. do u agree? how many times does it say in gurbani that emotional attatchments are false and we shouldnt dwell over them alot. maybe im lucky i havent felt "love" but i dont think that anything comes close to love of waheguru, and anything else is just an emotional attatchment or "moh".

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KS.. that quote doesnt say theres no such thing as love....

it is showing the ungenuine love that some poeple have... u can have a friend/spouse who will say they love you - but really they are self centered... "i have seen how all love is false"

love is not a sin - how can u say that.... love is a feeling - something which waheguru has gifted everyone with.... u sayin u dont love ur mother... father???. and in the future u wont love ur wife??? :roll:

u tryna say u have no feelings for anyone in this world?? or are u a robot?

how can u lead a gristi life with ur wife and raise ur children without love? :roll:

there is a difference between love and attachment... and attachment is reffered to other things then towards a person - it could be towards material things such as gold and money

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It may be worth reading Bhagat Jaidev's work (12th century) called Gita Govinda. Bhagat Jaidev's work is famous throughout India, and is a basis for a lot of poetry, shayrees, devotional hymns, etc. in many cultures.

Its a very erotic and sensual work that describes the relationship between Radha and Krishan Maharaj. (Incidentally, those who see this as being "anti-Sikh" or "anti-Panthic" should then question why the Sikh Gurus included Bhagat Jaidev's works within Adi Guru Durbar).

Those who can see deeper, will see how love for an Aatma leads to love for Parmaatma. Even Bhai Gurdas ji's Vaaran acknowledge the greatness of Bhagat Jaidev and his works.

http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/jaidev.html for more info

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yes obviously i love my mommy and my daddy :D but its still emotional attachment......you dont have to be a robot but you definately have to be unattatched.

do u think the gurus said to their wives all the time "oh i love you i love you" etc etc

from my interpriation of that shabad, its simply "In this world, I have seen love to be false".....it doesnt apply only to "selfish love" because love is moh and moh is essentially selfish.

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yes obviously i love my mommy and my daddy :D but its still emotional attachment......you dont have to be a robot but you definately have to be unattatched.

do u think the gurus said to their wives all the time "oh i love you i love you" etc etc

How can you love "mommy" and "daddy" if theres no such thing. Haven't you just contradicted yourself? And i'm sorry but if you do love them...then you're attached!

And to answer the point about the Guru's...I don't know of ANYBODY who spends all their time saying "i love you, i love you"...so the scorn you've just displayed is misplaced...and again innacurate.

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if i do soemthing good out of love for my wife/mom/dad/kids..... is that selfish??...

guru maharaj's told us to lead a grishti lifestyle... when u life with someone and you share a bond such as husband/wife then obviously you will gain love for each other..... how you can go thru ur life without loving someone i wanna know

the attachment your talkin about is soemthing which takes you away from waheguru - emotional attachment is its own form of maya.. if someone becomes obsessed with a certain thing and then forgets about waheguru in the process....thats the sin

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Here is the main aim of an sikh- You can love anyone you like but love towards vaheguroo/god has to be primary and love towards others has to be secondary.

How do u do that?? See one light in every being. No distinction.

If you cant see god in all, you cant see god at all (SGGS)

Jin Prem kai tab hi prab paiiooo (Savaiye, Daily Prayers)

If love everyone then you obtain lord and lord's love

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yes of course im attatched to my mommy and daddy.....im not a gurmukh

so what you are saying is....guru nanak was attatched to his wife? or guru gobind singh attatched to his wife? yes or no? did he have emotional attachment with them?

we should love everyone equally, but not love in context of emotional love for another. sortov like "love thy neighbor".

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guru gobind singh ji had love for everyone - but i wudnt say they were attached to them.... guru gobind singh ji knew his family were going to perish - when he was in the role of a son he sent his dad to his shaheedi... when he was in the role of a father he sent his sons to their shaheedi.. if he was emotionally attached to them that wudnt have been possible

the arguement is not about emotional attachment... its about love.... u jus said that love is false... but u openly state that u love ur mother and father..

theres 2 sides to every coin - where we are are attached to the charna of waheguru we cannot be attached in the same way to other people.. the way we love waheguru we cannot love anyone else in the same way... but that doesnt mean we are without feelings :?

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yes love is false, and yes i love me parents, but like i said before, im not a gurmukh!

with love (im talking about love as in what a wife and husband feel) it is impossible not to feel attachment. as we know in gurbani emotional attachment should eventually be broken from. there is nothing wrong with loving everyone in the context of seeing them as gods creation and hence beautiful (ie the opposite of hating everyone).

i thought this topic was on love as in the western view, rather than love as in the religious view (love thy neighbour).

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sat siri akal.

my parents r currently looking for a kuri for me to marry.

but i'm in a relationship already with a gujrati girl. shes such a nice girl, really caring and takes interest in sikhi. i'd love to marry her. n she wud love to marry me. iin future i want my kids to grow up as sikhs, keep their hair and fully be into the faith. shes ok with this. but will it make me a bad sikh to marry her?? i dunno what to do. shud i end the relationship totally now?? my parents want me to find a apni kuri. but i feel even tho she isnt a sikh, shes like a apni already.

look forwards to readin ur replys

thanks

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the answer can be found from guruji.

one of guru gobind singhs 52 commands was "a gursikh must marry another gursikh". i think he also has some gurbani where he says a sikh boy (girl) must never marry a hindu/muslim girl (boy) but im not sure if its authentic or even where its from.

get the girl to convert to sikhi if she faithfully believes in it - only ever marry someone who has 100percent faith in the guru, and shows it.

your marriage will be alot more fruitful if you are the same religion, otherwise its going to be a relationship based on slightly more shaky footing.

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:o look at todays hukamnama - very interesting relating to this topic :wink:

ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:

VAAR OF SOOHEE, WITH SHALOKS OF THE THIRD MEHL: SHALOK, THIRD MEHL:

In her red robes, the discarded bride goes out, seeking enjoyment with anothers husband. She leaves the husband of her own home, enticed by her love of duality. She finds it sweet, and eats it up; her excessive sensuality only makes her disease worse. She forsakes the Lord, her sublime Husband, and then later, she suffers the pain of separation from Him. But she who becomes Gurmukh, turns away from corruption and adorns herself, attuned to the Love of the Lord. She enjoys her celestial Husband Lord, and enshrines the Lords Name within her heart. She is humble and obedient; she is His virtuous bride forever; the Creator unites her with Himself. O Nanak, she who has obtained the True Lord as her husband, is a happy soul-bride forever. || 1 || THIRD MEHL: O meek, red-robed bride, keep your Husband Lord always in your thoughts. O Nanak, your life shall be embellished, and your generations shall be sa! ved along with you. || 2 || PAUREE: He Himself established His throne, in the Akaashic ethers and the nether worlds. By the Hukam of His Command, He created the earth, the true home of Dharma. He Himself created and destroys; He is the True Lord, merciful to the meek. You give sustenance to all; how wonderful and unique is the Hukam of Your Command! You Yourself are permeating and pervading; You Yourself are the Cherisher. || 1 ||

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my parents r currently looking for a kuri for me to marry.but i'm in a relationship already with a gujrati girl. shes such a nice girl, really caring and takes interest in sikhi. i'd love to marry her. n she wud love to marry me. iin future i want my kids to grow up as sikhs, keep their hair and fully be into the faith. shes ok with this. but will it make me a bad sikh to marry her?? i dunno what to do. shud i end the relationship totally now?? my parents want me to find a apni kuri. but i feel even tho she isnt a sikh, shes like a apni already.

It would not make you a bad sikh. Or a bad person. Why do you identify yourself as a religion first and as a person second?

If she is willing to have her children grow up as sikhs, which I wouldn't feel was compulsory or a precursor to a relationship or mariage I might add, then I can't see why anybody should have a problem with it.

I'm fairly sure that God doesn't preach intolerance. Thats mans favourite activity.

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i think we are missing the main point here...

outer marital relationships are not allowed in sikhi - whether its with a christian - hindu - muslim - jain - rastafarian - or sikh

maya u say that it doesnt make u a bad sikh - a sikh is soemoen who follows the teachings of our gurus... if u dont follow em.. how can it "not make u a bad sikh"?

the thing nowadays is people jus label themselves sikhs - sikh meaning disciple/student... but the sad fact is they dont learn what they should :?

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i think we are missing the main point here...

outer marital relationships are not allowed in sikhi - whether its with a christian - hindu - muslim - jain - rastafarian - or sikh

maya u say that it doesnt make u a bad sikh - a sikh is soemoen who follows the teachings of our gurus... if u dont follow em.. how can it "not make u a bad sikh"?

the thing nowadays is people jus label themselves sikhs - sikh meaning disciple/student... but the sad fact is they dont learn what they should :?

By who's definition? That of man? The views of man are without fail biased and/or an intepretation of the real word of God.

Guru Nanak was a Hindu by birth...does that make him unworthy of calling himself a Sikh?

And as I said before Guru Nanak advocated the abolishment of the Caste System...but who listened to him? Which sikh follows HIS teaching? ...because if you do not, then by your definition you're not a Sikh.

I was born into a family thats Sikh. I believe in God.

I am not however, bigoted or careless of the feelings and beliefs of my fellow man and I most certainly do not believe that religion is the route to God. You can believe in God but you do not have to follow any religion to do so.

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By who's definition? That of man? The views of man are without fail biased and/or an intepretation of the real word of God.

these are not the views of man.. they are the teachings by our gurus..passed to them from waheguru...they were more then just "men" :roll:

Guru Nanak was a Hindu by birth...does that make him unworthy of calling himself a Sikh?

if ur born into a family - it doesnt automatically make you a follower of the faith - im sure u agree with me there.... guru nanak dev ji didnt follow any of the hindu rituals and practises... he renounced the wearing of the janao... so how could be a hindu???... he founded the sikh religion - setting out its practises and followed them.. automatically making them a sikh

And as I said before Guru Nanak advocated the abolishment of the Caste System...but who listened to him? Which sikh follows HIS teaching? ...because if you do not, then by your definition you're not a Sikh.

dont believe in the caste system... :D

I was born into a family thats Sikh. I believe in God.

I am not however, bigoted or careless of the feelings and beliefs of my fellow man and I most certainly do not believe that religion is the route to God. You can believe in God but you do not have to follow any religion to do so.

no one said you couldnt get to god... this is about following the sikh faith... not picking and mixing the rules which suit u and which dont suit u... i dont think me u or anyone else has the right to make up our own rules... we accept our faith how it is.. and follow it to its full extent... n that includes not partaking in outer marital relationships...

u look at any faith worldwide - and from my knowledge i dont think of them agree with outer marital relationships

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these are not the views of man.. they are the teachings by our gurus..passed to them from waheguru...they were more then just "men" :roll:

They were men first and foremost. Just like any messiahs from any other religion.

if ur born into a family - it doesnt automatically make you a follower of the faith - im sure u agree with me there.... guru nanak dev ji didnt follow any of the hindu rituals and practises... he renounced the wearing of the janao... so how could be a hindu???... he founded the sikh religion - setting out its practises and followed them.. automatically making them a sikh

Yes, I agree completely that being born a sikh doesn't make you a sikh.

He became a Sikh...he set down the rules...so why don't people follow them? Why did subsequent Guru's and followers not follow the example of the first Guru...the one that actually CREATED sikhism? Because they were men with, understandably, but nonetheless.... very human flaws.

dont believe in the caste system... :D

You are one person. What about every Sikh that does? Are they entitled to call themselves Sikh?

no one said you couldnt get to god... this is about following the sikh faith... not picking and mixing the rules which suit u and which dont suit u... i dont think me u or anyone else has the right to make up our own rules... we accept our faith how it is.. and follow it to its full extent... n that includes not partaking in outer marital relationships...

Does following a faith mean you should blind yourself to its flaws and contradictions?

u look at any faith worldwide - and from my knowledge i dont think of them agree with outer marital relationships

They don't NOW...since society decided it wasn't on...again...human intervention. And actually, you'll find the Mormons have it as part of their faith if i remember.

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