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Gurfateh

Just my humble opinion Narsingha. If you find it is wrong, please correct me, without referring me to a website.

Everyone would love to read your views, it's not very often we get to learn from such a learned GurSikh as yourself.

Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Gurbaani (ie, Treh Charritar, Dasam Guru Durbar) would appear to be directly in violation of your theories.

BTW do you refer to Guru Nanak Dev Ji as 'Akali' Guru Nanak Dev Ji too? Why is this so? please excuse my ignorance :D

Gurfateh

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Over the last fortnight, many people (including myself) have had their postings deleted/edited simply because we have been accused of stating "opinion" (humble or otherwise).

Gurpreet Kaur, would it not be better, being a moderator yourself, to avoid stating (humble) opinions and adhering to Gurbani as a source on such matters? However, I can understand if you do not consider Dasam or Sarbloh Guru Durbar as being Gurbaani...

As you are aware, and as truthsingh keeps mentioning, stating opinions without evidence seems to be something that should be avoided at all costs.

"BTW do you refer to Guru Nanak Dev Ji as 'Akali' Guru Nanak Dev Ji too? Why is this so? please excuse my ignorance "

- Gurpreet Kaur

Deja vu? I just spoke about Akali Nihang Guru GOBIND Singh Ji...not Akali Guru Nanak Devji. You're a bit to obvious Gurpreet Kaur :roll: ...so, as I mentioned to Mr Bikramjit Singh (who it seems is a very close aquaintance of yours), there will be an article on www.sarbloh.info explaining this for those who still havent understood what AKALI actually means.

(I guess I may have to call upon lalleshvari to explain what AKALI means from its Sanskrit roots).

"Everyone would love to read your views, it's not very often we get to learn from such a learned GurSikh as yourself. "

- Gurpreet Kaur

Sarcasm as they say, is the lowest form of wit. I am not learned, nor do I claim to be a "Gursikh".:LOL: (maybe you should also adhere to Bikramjit regarding his OPINION about me).

It may be worth you reading Treh Charritar for yourself should you wish to learn more about "types of love" and their consequences. Guru Maharaj has already written much about this topic...why not utilise this before airing humble opinions?

Eg. Scenario...

What drives an man/boy to refer to a woman/girl as "penji" one moment then ends up marrying her? Is this incest? Or is it something else? One moment the woman is considered a "sister", the next, she becomes an object of sexual desire (ie, a wife in bed). What alters this perception? or was the "penji" word simply there to be politically correct?

Would this be acceptable within the categories you state Gurpreet Kaur?

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Gurfateh

Over the last fortnight, many people (including myself) have had their postings deleted/edited simply because we have been accused of stating "opinion" (humble or otherwise).

Your opinions contained personal attacks and this is probably why they were deleted.

Gurpreet Kaur, would it not be better, being a moderator yourself, to avoid stating (humble) opinions and adhering to Gurbani as a source on such matters?

My opinions are not worthy of being anything other than humble. You stated your 'humble' opinion in many posts, and in this one, without Gurbani quotes.

However, thankyou for the advice, I shall keep it in mind for the future :)

However, I can understand if you do not consider Dasam or Sarbloh Guru Durbar as being Gurbaani...

Assumptions Narsingha Ji. I have not stated my beliefs on this topic in any thread, if you find I have, please post it here and I'l be happy to take back my comment.

As you are aware, and as truthsingh keeps mentioning, stating opinions without evidence seems to be something that should be avoided at all costs.

Yes, let's all 'practise what we preach' Narsingha Ji. :)

Deja vu? I just spoke about Akali Nihang Guru GOBIND Singh Ji...not Akali Guru Nanak Devji. You're a bit to obvious Gurpreet Kaur ...so, as I mentioned to Mr Bikramjit Singh (who it seems is a very close aquaintance of yours), there will be an article on www.sarbloh.info explaining this for those who still havent understood what AKALI actually means.

Further assumptions. I was merely asking why you use that term. I was under the impression this forum was to learn, not just refute.

Please avoid assumptions which are personal, because I wouldn't want your post to be deleted again :D

(I guess I may have to call upon lalleshvari to explain what AKALI means from its Sanskrit roots).

Who seems to be a close aquaintance of yours too? Seems as if anyone who agrees with someone else is automatically termed as his/her acquaintance.

Sarcasm as they say, is the lowest form of wit. I am not learned, nor do I claim to be a "Gursikh". (maybe you should also adhere to Bikramjit regarding his OPINION about me).

I do not follow anyone's opinions. Just my own 'humble' ones. Apologies if you felt I was sarcastic, it wasn't intentional I assure you.

It may be worth you reading Treh Charritar for yourself should you wish to learn more about "types of love" and their consequences. Guru Maharaj has already written much about this topic...why not utilise this before airing humble opinions?

I certainly will. Thankyou for the information, it would have been easier if you had included this in your original post.

Eg. Scenario...

What drives an man/boy to refer to a woman/girl as "penji" one moment then ends up marrying her? Is this incest? Or is it something else? One moment the woman is considered a "sister", the next, she becomes an object of sexual desire (ie, a wife in bed). What alters this perception? or was the "penji" word simply there to be politically correct?

Would this be acceptable within the categories you state Gurpreet Kaur?

It would be acceptable in the last category. That last stage is of compassion, not lust.

The type the Gurus had for all of mankind.

Gurfateh

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Apologies for the deja vu I am having, but your postings seems to have a familiar sound to them all of a sudden.

(hint: you could at least try changing the wording to make it sound like its your posting)

Gurpreet Kaur, as everyone is now aware, personal insults have no place on this forum (...you may wish to visit the Nihang sction to see who's insulting whom), so I fail to see the accusation you have thrown towards me.

"It would be acceptable in the last category. That last stage is of compassion, not lust. "

- Gurpreet Kaur

Are you suggesting a husband does not LUST after his wife and only possess compassion? :LOL:

(This would seem to be the foundations of a very unhappy marriage..unless of course we are speaking of hypocrites??)

A reality check may be in order...

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Gurpreet Kaur, as everyone is now aware, personal insults have no place on this forum.

I agree Narsingha Ji. This is why I apologised in my last post, in case you took offence.

(hint: you could at least try changing the wording to make it sound like its your posting)

:LOL: That's so funny. I thought you said no personal insults? :?

I assure you, I don't need to hide behind different identities. What you see is what you get. :D

Gurfateh

'Gurpreet Kaur'

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You may wish to check the definition of "insult" within an approved dictionary before accusing me of insulting you. I had (perhaps wrongly) assumed a moderator would have basic command of the English language. :roll:

I have not accused you of hiding behind different identities. I wonder how that "Akali" question entered this thread all of a sudden...*ponders*

*plays dumb* :LOL:

Also...please answer the question...

"Are you suggesting a husband does not LUST after his wife and only possess compassion? "

Is love so clean cut and sterile as you seem to suggest in your "3 categories of love"?

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You may wish to check the definition of "insult" within an approved dictionary before accusing me of insulting you. I had (perhaps wrongly) assumed a moderator would have basic command of the English language.

Thankyou, I see a insult there too, but nevermind.

I have not accused you of hiding behind different identities. I wonder how that "Akali" question entered this thread all of a sudden...*ponders*

It entered when you wrote 'Akali Guru Gobind Singh Ji'? :roll:

Also...please answer the question...

"Are you suggesting a husband does not LUST after his wife and only possess compassion? "

Is love so clean cut and sterile as you seem to suggest in your "3 categories of love"?

In my 'humble opinion' I believe at the last stage, of compassion, 'Kaam' does not control a person. It can be controlled by the enlightened person.

Then the person is mukt from the five vices.

The Gurus were free from the five vices, and were compassionate to all mankind, however they lived a family life, and had children.

Gurfateh

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"In my 'humble opinion' I believe at the last stage, of compassion, 'Kaam' does not control a person. It can be controlled by the enlightened person.

Then the person is mukt from the five vices.

The Gurus were free from the five vices, and were compassionate to all mankind, however they lived a family life, and had children. "

- "Gurpreet Kaur"

You're stating the obvious for one thing, and something only a few are capable of acheiving. Now, pls try answering the question instead of giving an ideal scenario where everyone is enlightened and beyond the vices...

"Are you suggesting a husband does not LUST after his wife and only possess compassion?"

The nature of ur categories is that one is either in ONE box, or another..so...which is it for this hypothetical sexually charged husband?

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You're stating the obvious for one thing, and something only a few are capable of acheiving. Now, pls try answering the question instead of giving an ideal scenario where everyone is enlightened and beyond the vices...

I didn't say everyone is enlightened. I agree only there are only a few people who can achieve this. It's the only way I knew of answering your question, if it's not sufficient then do share your views.

The nature of ur categories is that one is either in ONE box, or another..so...which is it for this hypothetical sexually charged husband?

I wasn't placing people in different categories. I am aware that a person can be lustful towards his wife and compassionate too. Where did I say a person cannot feel all three? However, the purest form is the third one, after you attain that you are no controlled by the other two.

I was answering Maya, because she was only looking at two aspects, the first two categories.

The last stage is the most important, and the one we are aiming for as Sikhs. This was my only point, and this is where religion enters.

I don't know how else to answer your questions, unfortunately I cannot refer you to any websites either :D

Gurfateh

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If you read back that was exactly what was offered as an argument by one poster.

Obviously, that poster is not representing sikhism but his own extreme views.

There are many routes up that mountain. Not one and there are routes that don't use the "crutch" of religion. Religion is a "route" to God. Not the only way to believe in him.

I think there is a difference between beleiving in god compare with knowing god, meeting god and merging with the super-cosmic energy.

Says who? Who are you or any religion to judge the way to commune with God??? All you have is your intepretation...not divine knowledge. Other religions make the same claims...you can't all be right...you can't all be wrong. Therefore there must be more than one route to God.

I m not judging if you look at my post carefully. All i said thats the only way i think of mergin with god. Since you claim there must be more than one route to god then i shall say you better start searchin for the divine without lookin at relegion or its concepts because every moment and seconds counts. Who knows?? when one's time is up?? After all kaal(death) doesnt wait for anybody.

I don't believe in a "Biblical" God that indulges in punishment or "wrath" so no i'm not afraid of the wrath of God!!! I love God because yes, he created me and hes a divine force...and he helps those who helps themselves. I believe that he answers your prayers via appeals from those who love you.

Thats good to know that you dont beleive in wrath of god 8)

Again...Sin was a word that was thrown up other posters in the discussion.

Yep again the poster has it owns view of sikhism. Painting us and the whole relegion with the same brush its not a wise to thing to do.

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<<Can I ask what motivates you to place everything into neat little boxes? Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Gurbaani (ie, Treh Charritar, Dasam Guru Durbar) would appear to be directly in violation of your theories>>

Can you please explain how the writings of Dasam Granth are against Gurpreet's views. ?? I dont see any explanation in of your writings or did I miss out on something here ??

Gurpreet: I think you have done an excellent job of summing the post. Please keep up the good work. we need more moderators like you. :D

H Singh

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well, you are all right in your ways but guys i'm not marrying him he doesn't even know i like him. i just wanted to see if its right and he is a hindu . but i have now decided that i'll just forget about him. :cry:

eva thought about da future kid? :P

torn apart between sikhi and hinduism

but loving someone is an attachment, its a sin kuriyai :P

like guru ji says, false attachments will lead to the road of sufferring, but having the tru luv which is naam, you will find the ultimate tru luv..............WAHEGUROO!

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Guest Javanmard

Dear Amrik$singh,

you wrote

but loving someone is an attachment, its a sin kuriyai

as far as I am concerned that's a bit unhealthy and messed. Are you alright, are you happy, has someone hurt you? Do you actually realise how stupid that just sounds.

welcome to life!!!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Dear Amrik$singh,

you wrote

as far as I am concerned that's a bit unhealthy and messed. Are you alright, are you happy, has someone hurt you? Do you actually realise how stupid that just sounds.

welcome to life!!!

Its my own way of brainwashing people

later :P

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Love is not a sin and you can mis/intepret any religious text to back up what you're trying to say.

If we follow the line of logic you're attempting to espouse...you cannot love a man or woman be they you're wife/husband or not. But also you cannot love your family, children and if we take it to its logical conclusion we cannot love God because theres no such thing as love.

Personally, as a human being first I AM capable of love and you must look to yourself to see if you are too. If you are not then the loss appears to be yours my friend.

By who's definition? That of man? The views of man are without fail biased and/or an intepretation of the real word of God.

Guru Nanak was a Hindu by birth...does that make him unworthy of calling himself a Sikh?

And as I said before Guru Nanak advocated the abolishment of the Caste System...but who listened to him? Which sikh follows HIS teaching? ...because if you do not, then by your definition you're not a Sikh.

I was born into a family thats Sikh. I believe in God.

I am not however, bigoted or careless of the feelings and beliefs of my fellow man and I most certainly do not believe that religion is the route to God. You can believe in God but you do not have to follow any religion to do so.

Impressive!!!! I admire/appriciate These Thoughts and agree with them.

10-20 days back when i posted on first page in this thread.,. i didn't think that this discussion will lead in these directions. Today, after so many days, today when i see this topic of 7 pages, i am realizing what is the different between Discussing and Arguing. Nonetheless, Your efforts/post were classic.

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I'm gonna add my two cents here too...

So basically what I'm gettin here is that 1) there should be no relationships of this sort before marriage, and 2) that once again... most sikhs don't believe in the caste system...

Ok... here's the deal then... does that mean then that one should reside to choice of the match that their parent's make. From majority of the relationships that I've seen that are made by parents, they're not the world's greatest. It is because our parents see one side of the person and we end up seeing another side... although on the surface it looks like these marriages work, but once one gets inside and understands both ppl, you realize there's a huge difference... I know personally where a person was shown three ppl beforehand and out of them one was chosen for this lady... the person she got was first of all much older to her and second of all had no interest in doing things with her, they're doing ok, but that's because they've learned to compromise and not expect much from each other... however she still sees these other two guys from time to time and they're interests match hers ten times better... and it's sad to see this person struggling the way she is and trying not to regret the decision that her parents made for her...

I believe that one should be able to be on the look out for someone that interests them, that they have a connection with otherwise, if you don't have any thing in common with the person how can u even learn to love them, it becomes a burden than anything else...

and about sikhs not believing in the caste system... then how come my friend was said no to by every single family that she came across... she's a dentist, gorgeous and is the most sweetest person...and she comes from an amritdhari family that doesn't believe in the caste system... but whenever she was introduced to a jatt/tarkan/whoever else... they all said no upon finding out later through friends that her parents come from chamars and these were all amritdhari families they were looking at....... excuse me this happens every day... in frustration she looked to the first person that showed her that she was more than what others thought of her and she married a polish guy, real sweet and he's such a nice person... but this was the last resort for her... cuz no one else wanted to marry her...

Explain to me how that happened, cuz believe me when I heard what had happened to her, it broke my heart on how superficial sikhs have become....

Ohh!!! Touching!! and sadly, i observed that nobody has taken these "True" question directly. No body answering them. except..

The reason is ignorance is still here. The only way to show them the way is to let out few verses from sggs ji on caste system to show them their fake orthodoxy!!!. Its slowly goin away though.

you are right veere. But, Why this is here. Many of our friends come with so many quotes of sggs etc. when discussing topics.. what happens to their knowledge when it comes to caste thinh.. why they are ignorant on this still. and if your answer is this..

Yep I agree with you there. Its slowly going away. You have to remember its an very bad influence from hindu soceity that our ancenstors lived in from guroo's time. It was almost an epedimic.

this is sad. I can recall one line i read on this forum only, Whatever BAD sikhs are doing, blame it to hindus!!! This ain't correct way . There are so many other customs of hindus which we have left/forgot easily.. why we still living with this one? lack of will.. un-easyness in leaving it? why?

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gurfateh sardu veer ji,

you wrote:

this is sad. I can recall one line i read on this forum only, Whatever BAD sikhs are doing, blame it to hindus!!! This ain't correct way . There are so many other customs of hindus which we have left/forgot easily.. why we still living with this one? lack of will.. un-easyness in leaving it? why?

But really you tell me?? wasnt it bad influence of hindu soceity??

There were hertiage of sikhs who was very much attached with hindu rituals... due to influence of hindu back in guroo's time. Off course i m blaming the dumb people (sikhs) who beleive in caste system... But on my post i was aimin for the root of the problem which is influence from hindu culture.

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gurfateh sardu veer ji,

you wrote:

But really you tell me?? wasnt it bad influence of hindu soceity??

There were hertiage of sikhs who was very much attached with hindu rituals... due to influence of hindu back in guroo's time. Off course i m blaming the dumb people (sikhs) who beleive in caste system... But on my post i was aimin for the root of the problem which is influence from hindu culture.

ya..neo veere!! you are right.. u were talking about roots.. i just felt that u r just blamming it on them like i have observed many times.. may be i was in "Flow" and didn't observe from your angle.. Sorry veere!!

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neo u said that caste system is slowly goin away??

r u sure bout dat??cz in my area the youngsters are heavily into caste...

EVEN the Guru Nanak Sikh College had a big phase where loads of students had jatt or tharkan written on their cellphones....

bt this is london...i dont know bout where you are from?? but certainly here its not going away netime soon.

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