I Am Confused - Am I Punjabi Or Am I Sikh?

[rapunzel]

Hi everyone.

I just joined this website/forum, and this is my first post. I guess you could say that I joined because, like the topic of my post states, I am confused - specifically, about (many things about) Sikhism. I was born into this religion. I grew up going to the temple, a lot (as a kid). My grandfather prayed a lot - every evening, and we always joined him. As kids, we just would listen to it, and he taught us to recite a lot of the prayers at first just to learn them, and we did. However, I never knew the meaning behind the words. So from a young age, we were taught how to pray (as Sikhs), and taught what the general rules were in Sikhism. I was sent to Punjabi school and am fluent in it, as well as being able to read and write it. Like many Sikhs with a Punjabi identity, I also struggled with something else: being born and raised in the western world, which meant growing up identifying myself with that cultural identity, with the added confusion of having to "act like a Punjabi" (which is a very strong culture with a lot of traditions/expectations to adhere to) because my family is Punjabi. My parents are very 'westernized' as they were also raised in the west from a young age, but always felt very strongly that we follow Punjabi cultural rules, and just respect our elders and their traditions, as well as Sikhism, as much as we are able to. As we got a little older, my grandfather would sometimes sit down with us and explain for a couple of hours at a time - lines from the Guru Granth Sahib - giving us the direct quote/line - and then he would tell us what it meant (in modern Punjabi) so we'd get the real meaning/essence of the teachings.

I lived with most of my extended family growing up, so I had a lot of interaction with my grandparents. It was my grandfather who explained to me as much as he could about Sikhism, and that is really the only guidance I had in terms of Sikhism and what the religion actually teaches, and is all about. My mother and father worked a lot while my grandparents raised us and never really had the time to sit with us and talk about God. I am much older now (in my later 20s) and my mother talks to me about spiritual matters and my father really doesn't that much. My grandfather passed away last year. I don't have anyone to discuss these things with anymore. Even when we went to the gurdwara as kids, it was my grandfather who was so active in the Sikh community and in our upbringing and trying to teach us about the religion (and culture) - that made that experience meaningful in any capacity at all. In general - this is what I saw growing up in how Sikh Punjabi families in my community went about going to the gurdwara: The parents/grandparents/elders would bring their children with them to some kind of function at the temple. The kids would sit with their parents, eyes wandering, daydreaming, as the Guru Granth Sahib was read in the background - in words foreign to even the Punjabi-speaking children. It was like this invisible boundary was always there, stopping hordes of kids from understanding what was being said - (that barrier being language I guess). When the kids would get agitated enough, or bored enough, or restless enough, they'd run off with their friends into the langar hall or to explore the hidden corners of the gurdwara, often an old industrial building, and play - while their mothers and aunts and grandmothers would often listen to prayers or work and talk/gossip in the kitchen/langar hall - and the men would do the same, in their own way (i.e. do their own thing). Maybe I shouldn't extend my own experience as what others experienced, but many I grew up with I know shared my experience - in that yes, they went to the gurdwara, but it was more something that they had to do, because it's just what Sikhs do, and no real spiritual/religious meaning was derived from it.

It's kind of like - I have an aunt in my family who considers herself very religious. She was never baptized as a Sikh (actually, no one in my family is apart from my grandfather and grandmother on my mother's side, but I did not grow up in the same country as them and have a distant relationship with them). This aunt is very materialistic, showy, a pretty nice person when she wants to be, but a very proud person. She has an akhand path every year, but it's like she just 'goes through the motions'. I've found this pattern in a lot of Sikh Punjabi homes/families that are living in the western world - they do these "Sikh" religious prayers/rituals (I say ritual just referring to the way Sikhs have set up organized ways to pray i.e. 3 day prayer = akhand path, and all the cultural/religious rituals that go along with it). I guess it feels more like when you go to these things, it feels more like an excuse for a bunch of people in the community to get together, or someone to just bless their house - when no one is really getting to the real MEANING of it. It's like the women just sit in the kitchen and clean up and that takes up all three days, and the men are busy doing what the women are telling them to do - and often, the room in which the prayer is being done, apart from the last day (the bhog) - is often found empty, being attended to by one person while prayers are being read - and that person is just there as if it's shift duty.

Obviously, these experiences are my own and cannot be exactly what everyone else growing up around me felt like. I am just terribly confused I guess, spiritually and otherwise. If I go to the gurdwara, there is no "clergy" to speak to - who has answers for my spiritual and religious questions. Maybe it's because I grew up in the west (and therefore exposed to western religions) that I think religion has to prescribe to us a way of life. I also admit, even though I know the basic rules of Sikhism - I do not follow some of them. I have never taken a drug or touched alcohol in my entire life, but I have cut my hair, and I am not baptized into Sikhism (have not taken amrit). I eat meat. So maybe, one could argue, I haven't even tried hard enough to really even "get" Sikhism. The thing is, I have read translated parts of the Guru Granth Sahib, and I still struggle at times with that - because some of it is very metaphorical, and almost poetry-like - instead of directly telling you the meaning of something, or saying outright "here is how to life your life."

What confuses me even further is that the Punjabi culture is DIRECTLY at odds and in opposition to some very fundamental teachings unique to Sikhism. I don't know much but I do know for example - the first few lines of the Guru Granth Sahib - about how God is One, and there is only One God, and all human beings are equal under this One God. All human beings are created equal - man and woman, regardless of race, caste, culture, creed, or religion. "There is no Hindu, there is no Muslim" - to me, means that all religions are to be respected, and revered, in their own way, or at the very least - tolerated - and the freedom for each human being to revere God in his/her own way must be respected and we must not interfere with this. I was always taught in my family that this means that Sikhs don't make it a mission to go out and convert others to their religion - in other words, we believe in "live and let live." There is not really a notion (as I understand it) that in Sikhism - if you are not part of this religion, then you are doomed to some sort of hell - it seems to me more of an acknowledgement that all religions are to be respected, and it is a Sikh's duty to fight for this freedom and human right equally if it's for our own religion, or to stand up for the rights of a person of another religion.

I know this is a very long post and I may be dragging on here. I just think I have grown very confused and frustrated with not being able to explain how I feel to anyone. I grew up being taught these beliefs, but the truth is (and I know this is the truth for many Punjabis) - that being Punjabi, and having that cultural identity often overshadows being Sikh, in a big way - so big often that our lifestyle becomes hypocritical. For example - my religion teaches me that I am equal to a man, but my Punjabi culture is patriarchal and culturally - (and reinforced in my real, day-to-day life by every family get together and event, family structure, the way our families work, and who is in charge) - teaches me that I am inferior in many ways as a woman. As a woman in my culture, even in the western world, born and raised here, my brother and the brothers of all my Punjabi female friends were given a lot more freedom. In this culture, if a boy has relationships before marriage, it's seen as "boys will be boys" and more accepted, but for a female the consequences are much, much more severe. She is often ostracized, and made to feel even more inferior, and is often shamed. The female in Punjabi culture is taught to be subservient and almost groomed to be a certain way - especially with the goal of marriage as the ultimate goal/end-point. Punjabi men are often big drinkers - and this is the cultural norm, just as it is the cultural norm that a Punjabi woman would never be seen drinking in public, because for her culturally it is forbidden and she'd have to suffer the consequences to her reputation, etc. I am saying all of this as someone born and raised in the western world even - which means that even growing up in one of the most if not most 'modern' and free places for women in the world, my Punjabi culture takes precedence and has a very real presence in my life as a woman, regardless of the laws and freedoms and rights (for women) of the country I live in. You hear of honour killings for Punjabi women all the time, often at the hands of Punjabi men in their own families - uncles, fathers, brothers, or grandfathers - but you will never hear of an honour killing for a man (i.e. a man shamed the family). I wouldn't want this - I think it is horrendous either way. I am merely making a point to point out how far these 'cultural rules' go and the extremes to which they are taken, and the control it has over some people's lives. Even in the western world, where Sikh girls are pushed to be educated and independent, it's in most cases so that she can have the modern qualifications of being "fit to marry" and to keep up with the status quo. Sikhism doesn't condone any of this, yet I see this happening in Sikh Punjabi families - and sadly, these archaic cultural beliefs are just accepted as the norm and even protected - as the cultural norm (or cultural extremes) - and protected in a way and reinforced - even if it directly contradicts the Guru Granth Sahib, and God.

Punjabi culture believes in the caste system, and anyone who believes it doesn't even in modern day (at large) I would say is naïve, or (innocently) idealistic. As a kid, I asked my father and my grandfather a few times, on different occasions - why, as a "Jatt" (a caste in Sikhism) that my family belongs to - we cannot marry other castes, even if they are Sikhs? Even as a very young child, this was glaring hypocrisy to me, and I never quite knew what I should be loyal to - my religion, or my culture? I was just told "that's the way it is" (obviously, here, culture won the argument in what dictates that rule in our family). If I married outside of my caste, it wouldn't be accepted. Marrying outside of my religion would lead to me being disowned - but then again, I don't know if the Guru Granth Sahib explicitly states that this is not allowed, since it says in its very first lines - that all human beings are equal under One God and there is "no Hindu, there is no Muslim". The gurus died defending these beliefs - and so did their children and family members and friends. Human beings - actually lost their lives - defending these beliefs - and it really confuses me why as Sikhs (with a Punjabi identity) - our traditions as Punjabis directly is at odds with teachings in Sikhism - and furthermore, are followed and revered in some respects as higher than the religion. I guess it's based on shame - i.e. "what will people think?" if my daughter married outside of her caste, or married a "black man" or a "white man" (even if he was a Sikh). In a nutshell, what this has resulted in (according to me and my observational skills and human life experience) - is an entire generation (i.e. my generation and the ones younger than it who share the same religious/cultural identity combo) that carries a religious and spiritual void - and has grown up in the west falsely correlating Punjabi culture with Sikhism - but in reality only following a set of prescribed cultural traditions. I have grown up with a lot of female sisters and cousins - highly educated wonderful women - insightful and with unique personalities - that had the same questions as me growing up. What's sad is that I've witnessed so many of them grow up (older than me, or younger than me) and just give up asking or trying to find answers, or questioning things out loud and having open discussions about it. It seems culture always wins out in the end (in a lot of cases) where as women they feel they have no voice anyways, and it's better to just not disrupt the family and just do what they are told even if it makes no sense, and even if it's against their own religion. When they get to this point, they've almost become a shell of their former selves, answering my questions in the same robotic way my elders answered me when I was a kid, "that's just the way it is".

Maybe this is just how it is in every religion - when it comes to cultural rules dictating areas of our life selectively and religion governing others. My main concern is this - when I feel this confused at times - where do I go for answers? My gut instinct tells me the answer is the Guru Granth Sahib itself - because after all, that is said to be the last guru and it IS the Sikh teachings. When I have even inquired about specific passages within the Guru Granth - even then, interpretations from different people make the meaning completely different and sometimes I feel an individual's own agenda has an effect on what they WANT a certain passage to mean. It's just hard - if I for example did something according to the Guru Granth Sahib that was in conflict with Punjabi tradition - I would be shunned in my family - and I know that's the reality for a lot of other Punjabi (male and female) individuals. I am sure that living in the west with immigrant grandparents, and their children (my parents' generation) - also makes things a little more difficult -as immigrants are always scared of losing their identity and in the hope of holding on to it and in fear of losing it they adhere to it even more crazily than those in the 'homeland' would (because those in the 'homeland' don't face the same fear of losing their cultural/religious identity over generations).

For anyone that read this complete post, thanks. I am interested in anyone's feedback and comments. Do you feel the same as I do? Do you ever feel confused as a Sikh? Do you even feel at times that you don't know if you are a Sikh, if you are not baptized (take amrit)? I would be really interested in knowing if anyone has any input or personal experience with what to do when you felt this way - where did you go for guidance and clarification? What helped you to understand Sikhism better? Personally, I know I value religion much, much more than my cultural roots - to me, cultural roots are just traditions that are passed down from generation to generation and I was raised in a country where I was surrounded by every religion and every culture - and every religion always seemed to agree on the major fundamentals - i.e. being a good person and doing the right things, and having morals, and ethics - but cultures all have their own ideas of everything. To me, that is why culture is of little significance - but I know a lot of Punjabis struggle with what I am feeling. I also struggle to get meaning out of my life spiritually and I don't know how to access that or get to it - or to learn, because like I said, in the gurdwara there is no organized clergy there for those questions and discussions like priests in church. Have any of you been confused when you've been raised with certain religious beliefs and then in your daily home life, as a Punjabi, seen this directly contradicted time and time again and wondered why?

I'm looking forward to reading any comments/questions/feedback - maybe it will help me in how to learn more about Sikhism the right way - or in the very least, help me to feel not so alone and lost. Take care everyone, and thanks for reading.

[dalsingh101]

Firstly thanks for posting. It was actually a nice change to
read such a personal expression of heartfelt feelings.


I think a lot of us feel that dichotomy between culture and
faith you refer to, and I certainly feel that the two are diametrically opposed
in certain areas, some of which you’ve clearly identified. For this particular
issue though, I think the solution is relatively simple (at least in concept). Whilst
we all live with these multiple identities, I found using the maxim that ‘the faith
trumps the culture’ in areas of confusion, immensely helpful. So for instance,
I now know that general discipline and sobriety is better than the barn-dancing style
drink ups I encountered and participated in growing up and thought were
inseparable part of my ‘culture’. I
now know that spending time meditating everyday is much better for me physiologically
and psychologically than some of the hedonistic but ultimately self-destructive
stuff I frequently got up to (and still occasionally do!) It is now apparent to me that spending at
least some of my spare time developing my linguistic skills and delving into my
written heritage is richly rewarding and helps me grow spiritually and
intellectually – working as a counter balance to my own natural, human flaws.


Reading your post gave the impression of someone searching
their soul for the truth regarding their spiritual heritage. I can relate to
that. In many ways you are very lucky, in that you are already at an advantage in
your journey because of your fluency in Panjabi. I’ve only personally took the steps
to improve my own linguistic fluency in the last few years (with variable
results), but what this did do was open up a whole new world to me. One that
was in stark contrast to what I had witnessed, been told about, or had read
about (especially in English!) regarding Sikhi. Truth be told, thus far I’ve
had to relearn much and question a lot of what I took for granted previously,
and when this concerns commonly accepted ‘fundamentals’ of the faith and our 'history', it hasn’t
been easy at all. But it has made me grow as a person. I’m more mature/wiser as
a consequence. I feel like my mind’s been expanded.


You’re lucky that you’ve had at least some previous exposure
to aspects of your faith from your grandparents. I see a lot of second and even
third generation apnay who have been completely denied this through no fault of
their own. This includes people very closely related to me, whom I love.


From the sounds of it, you’re on the cusp of taking that small
but infinitely monumental step of seeking the truth of your heritage without
all the ‘baggage’ that got attached along the way. To me this is ‘the journey’,
and I can’t help but feel that people are blessed just to be at its threshold.


I think this journey is unique for everyone myself. So far,
my own personal one has revealed so many ‘secrets’ in its twists and turns. And
by this I’m not talking about some magical, mystical supernatural power but
rather an insight into how our immediate worldly needs (as individuals and as a
community) can knock the contours of our beautiful heritage, skewing them - as
well as the hidden beauty and mystery of our internal world. And I’m under no
illusion – I know I’m only just a beginner and have only scratched the surface.


You can’t do much about other people’s hypocrisy, other than,
perhaps, challenge it when appropriate. What you can do is slowly and surely scrutinise
your own self and try and reduce the hypocrisy within your own actions. Ultimately,

if enough of us can be convinced to do this and strive for it, we can maybe sow the seeds

for the renewal of our community. Under the current circumstances I don’t see any

other realistic plan other than to minimise the perpetuation of the hypocrisy which irks us –
through our own actions and hope that enough progressive, positive and strong
people exist within our community to help push it in a more positive direction to
the clannishness and overt shows of status, or dodgy politics which seem to be characteristic
features right now. It’s hard not to see this as a spiritual battle for
ourselves as individuals AND the soul of our community right now. And although overt
‘Panjabiness’ may be a defining feature of our community in the diaspora at this precise moment,
that looks like it is rapidly changing before us, for a variety of
reasons, internal and external - whether we like it or not.


Start learning to access and explore the literary treasuries
we have as a start. As mentioned previously, you’re lucky to have a head start
in that. We’re also lucky that modern technology allows us to access so much
useful material for free right now. Explore and share! See what effect it has
on you?

Edited June 30, 2013 by dalsingh101

[HSD1]

I grew up in the UK and what you say is pretty much what a lot of people from working class backgrounds go through. But is it really Punjabi culture at fault here? If you were to go to East Punjab today, a lot of the people there are nothing like the puritanical image our elders hold up as a guide to Punjabi culture. In fact anything you see there would make you question everything you were told about Sikhs and Punjabis as a nation growing up. 'Higher caste' Sikhs still are very Punjabi in the UK but they dont seem to have the same hangups or fears the majority of older Sikhs here do. Probably because they are more successful and dont have the same fear of being assimilated as us 'rednecks'. Of course this is just anecdotal, I dont know where you're from or if you can relate. Why certain elders are more highly strung about this stuff than others, I dont know.

The way I see it is that our parents and elders when faced with living in another country will do pretty much anything to get their kids to act in a certain way. They'll bring religion, culture, family, honour etc into it - anything and everything to get their own way. The fact that it seems hypocritical or stupid is lost on them, especially as their tunnel vision doesnt let them see it any other way. You say Punjabi culture is very patriarchal, which some families can be, but a lot of families arent so strict or practice that 'all under one roof' thing some Asian families do. In fact a lot of honour killings in the UK are carried out on the orders of a Sikh matriarch. Not something that Punjabi culture has ever had a history of. Sikh girls in London go out drinking in groups and go clubbing nowadays etc, just like the boys tend to. Not all girls do it, but then again not all boys are hard drinking nutters or get free rides off their parents. The older generation used to have this way of thinking that boys with non-Sikh girlfriends could at least raise their kids as Sikhs. Girls on the other hand, wouldnt. In a lot of cases it seems they were right. But times and attitudes change.

Mixed marriages are more common and many Sikhs see their kids marrying middle class goreh (regardless of whether it's the son or daughter) as a step up and a sign of acceptance in the UK. Some of these are very religous, or what would be described as Punjabi. They arent bothered if their grandkids arent going to grow up Sikhs, they have sacrificed that for integration. In reality, religion is just another thing to be try and be good at so they have the bragging rights, a bit like how you describe your aunt. Most other people dont care, but for these zealots they have to go that extra mile to seem perfect or at least a cut above the rest. Nothing to do with Sikhi or Punjab but more just people's own personalities.

A lot of our own lot get turned off their religion due to other factors like religous infighting and the fact they will never be good enough for some jathas/groups. Plenty remain proud Punjabis without caring about caste, this is how a lot of kids from Punjabi xtian converts have been brought back in to our wider family. On the other hand, plenty of religous Sikhs who brag about how westernised they are and how removed they are from Punjab still care about caste when it comes to day to day things. Being Punjabi isnt all that bad either, we can be a good bunch if we put the effort in, especially compared to some other races. If you feel stifled, the best thing is to talk it out with those who you feel are getting on your case. If you think they will listen.

As for the whole 'no hindu, no muslim' and equality thing, I think that's up for interpretation. It's not about revering religion, it's about seeing the human behind the religion or skin colour/political persuarsion. That means the same standards for all and making them practice what they preach if they consider their background is so great. If we were to revere other religions just for the sake of equality we would be in pretty dark territory fairly quickly. A lot of people from any background use religion as a smokescreen for all kinds of crimes like paedophilia and bigotry. But that's my take on it, plenty of other Sikhs see all religions as the same, even if they know nothing of them.

To summarise my comment, I would say: 'Dont let the b*st*rds grind you down'. People are fickle and use all sorts of stuff to justify the way they are. Culture is what you make it.

Edited June 29, 2013 by HSD1

[chatanga1]

You can be both OP.

[jaikaara]

Hi everyone.

I just joined this website/forum, and this is my first post. I guess you could say that I joined because, like the topic of my post states, I am confused - specifically, about (many things about) Sikhism. I was born into this religion. I grew up going to the temple, a lot (as a kid). My grandfather prayed a lot - every evening, and we always joined him. As kids, we just would listen to it, and he taught us to recite a lot of the prayers at first just to learn them, and we did. However, I never knew the meaning behind the words. So from a young age, we were taught how to pray (as Sikhs), and taught what the general rules were in Sikhism. I was sent to Punjabi school and am fluent in it, as well as being able to read and write it. Like many Sikhs with a Punjabi identity, I also struggled with something else: being born and raised in the western world, which meant growing up identifying myself with that cultural identity, with the added confusion of having to "act like a Punjabi" (which is a very strong culture with a lot of traditions/expectations to adhere to) because my family is Punjabi. My parents are very 'westernized' as they were also raised in the west from a young age, but always felt very strongly that we follow Punjabi cultural rules, and just respect our elders and their traditions, as well as Sikhism, as much as we are able to. As we got a little older, my grandfather would sometimes sit down with us and explain for a couple of hours at a time - lines from the Guru Granth Sahib - giving us the direct quote/line - and then he would tell us what it meant (in modern Punjabi) so we'd get the real meaning/essence of the teachings.

I lived with most of my extended family growing up, so I had a lot of interaction with my grandparents. It was my grandfather who explained to me as much as he could about Sikhism, and that is really the only guidance I had in terms of Sikhism and what the religion actually teaches, and is all about. My mother and father worked a lot while my grandparents raised us and never really had the time to sit with us and talk about God. I am much older now (in my later 20s) and my mother talks to me about spiritual matters and my father really doesn't that much. My grandfather passed away last year. I don't have anyone to discuss these things with anymore. Even when we went to the gurdwara as kids, it was my grandfather who was so active in the Sikh community and in our upbringing and trying to teach us about the religion (and culture) - that made that experience meaningful in any capacity at all. In general - this is what I saw growing up in how Sikh Punjabi families in my community went about going to the gurdwara: The parents/grandparents/elders would bring their children with them to some kind of function at the temple. The kids would sit with their parents, eyes wandering, daydreaming, as the Guru Granth Sahib was read in the background - in words foreign to even the Punjabi-speaking children. It was like this invisible boundary was always there, stopping hordes of kids from understanding what was being said - (that barrier being language I guess). When the kids would get agitated enough, or bored enough, or restless enough, they'd run off with their friends into the langar hall or to explore the hidden corners of the gurdwara, often an old industrial building, and play - while their mothers and aunts and grandmothers would often listen to prayers or work and talk/gossip in the kitchen/langar hall - and the men would do the same, in their own way (i.e. do their own thing). Maybe I shouldn't extend my own experience as what others experienced, but many I grew up with I know shared my experience - in that yes, they went to the gurdwara, but it was more something that they had to do, because it's just what Sikhs do, and no real spiritual/religious meaning was derived from it.

It's kind of like - I have an aunt in my family who considers herself very religious. She was never baptized as a Sikh (actually, no one in my family is apart from my grandfather and grandmother on my mother's side, but I did not grow up in the same country as them and have a distant relationship with them). This aunt is very materialistic, showy, a pretty nice person when she wants to be, but a very proud person. She has an akhand path every year, but it's like she just 'goes through the motions'. I've found this pattern in a lot of Sikh Punjabi homes/families that are living in the western world - they do these "Sikh" religious prayers/rituals (I say ritual just referring to the way Sikhs have set up organized ways to pray i.e. 3 day prayer = akhand path, and all the cultural/religious rituals that go along with it). I guess it feels more like when you go to these things, it feels more like an excuse for a bunch of people in the community to get together, or someone to just bless their house - when no one is really getting to the real MEANING of it. It's like the women just sit in the kitchen and clean up and that takes up all three days, and the men are busy doing what the women are telling them to do - and often, the room in which the prayer is being done, apart from the last day (the bhog) - is often found empty, being attended to by one person while prayers are being read - and that person is just there as if it's shift duty.

Obviously, these experiences are my own and cannot be exactly what everyone else growing up around me felt like. I am just terribly confused I guess, spiritually and otherwise. If I go to the gurdwara, there is no "clergy" to speak to - who has answers for my spiritual and religious questions. Maybe it's because I grew up in the west (and therefore exposed to western religions) that I think religion has to prescribe to us a way of life. I also admit, even though I know the basic rules of Sikhism - I do not follow some of them. I have never taken a drug or touched alcohol in my entire life, but I have cut my hair, and I am not baptized into Sikhism (have not taken amrit). I eat meat. So maybe, one could argue, I haven't even tried hard enough to really even "get" Sikhism. The thing is, I have read translated parts of the Guru Granth Sahib, and I still struggle at times with that - because some of it is very metaphorical, and almost poetry-like - instead of directly telling you the meaning of something, or saying outright "here is how to life your life."

What confuses me even further is that the Punjabi culture is DIRECTLY at odds and in opposition to some very fundamental teachings unique to Sikhism. I don't know much but I do know for example - the first few lines of the Guru Granth Sahib - about how God is One, and there is only One God, and all human beings are equal under this One God. All human beings are created equal - man and woman, regardless of race, caste, culture, creed, or religion. "There is no Hindu, there is no Muslim" - to me, means that all religions are to be respected, and revered, in their own way, or at the very least - tolerated - and the freedom for each human being to revere God in his/her own way must be respected and we must not interfere with this. I was always taught in my family that this means that Sikhs don't make it a mission to go out and convert others to their religion - in other words, we believe in "live and let live." There is not really a notion (as I understand it) that in Sikhism - if you are not part of this religion, then you are doomed to some sort of hell - it seems to me more of an acknowledgement that all religions are to be respected, and it is a Sikh's duty to fight for this freedom and human right equally if it's for our own religion, or to stand up for the rights of a person of another religion.

I know this is a very long post and I may be dragging on here. I just think I have grown very confused and frustrated with not being able to explain how I feel to anyone. I grew up being taught these beliefs, but the truth is (and I know this is the truth for many Punjabis) - that being Punjabi, and having that cultural identity often overshadows being Sikh, in a big way - so big often that our lifestyle becomes hypocritical. For example - my religion teaches me that I am equal to a man, but my Punjabi culture is patriarchal and culturally - (and reinforced in my real, day-to-day life by every family get together and event, family structure, the way our families work, and who is in charge) - teaches me that I am inferior in many ways as a woman. As a woman in my culture, even in the western world, born and raised here, my brother and the brothers of all my Punjabi female friends were given a lot more freedom. In this culture, if a boy has relationships before marriage, it's seen as "boys will be boys" and more accepted, but for a female the consequences are much, much more severe. She is often ostracized, and made to feel even more inferior, and is often shamed. The female in Punjabi culture is taught to be subservient and almost groomed to be a certain way - especially with the goal of marriage as the ultimate goal/end-point. Punjabi men are often big drinkers - and this is the cultural norm, just as it is the cultural norm that a Punjabi woman would never be seen drinking in public, because for her culturally it is forbidden and she'd have to suffer the consequences to her reputation, etc. I am saying all of this as someone born and raised in the western world even - which means that even growing up in one of the most if not most 'modern' and free places for women in the world, my Punjabi culture takes precedence and has a very real presence in my life as a woman, regardless of the laws and freedoms and rights (for women) of the country I live in. You hear of honour killings for Punjabi women all the time, often at the hands of Punjabi men in their own families - uncles, fathers, brothers, or grandfathers - but you will never hear of an honour killing for a man (i.e. a man shamed the family). I wouldn't want this - I think it is horrendous either way. I am merely making a point to point out how far these 'cultural rules' go and the extremes to which they are taken, and the control it has over some people's lives. Even in the western world, where Sikh girls are pushed to be educated and independent, it's in most cases so that she can have the modern qualifications of being "fit to marry" and to keep up with the status quo. Sikhism doesn't condone any of this, yet I see this happening in Sikh Punjabi families - and sadly, these archaic cultural beliefs are just accepted as the norm and even protected - as the cultural norm (or cultural extremes) - and protected in a way and reinforced - even if it directly contradicts the Guru Granth Sahib, and God.

Punjabi culture believes in the caste system, and anyone who believes it doesn't even in modern day (at large) I would say is naïve, or (innocently) idealistic. As a kid, I asked my father and my grandfather a few times, on different occasions - why, as a "Jatt" (a caste in Sikhism) that my family belongs to - we cannot marry other castes, even if they are Sikhs? Even as a very young child, this was glaring hypocrisy to me, and I never quite knew what I should be loyal to - my religion, or my culture? I was just told "that's the way it is" (obviously, here, culture won the argument in what dictates that rule in our family). If I married outside of my caste, it wouldn't be accepted. Marrying outside of my religion would lead to me being disowned - but then again, I don't know if the Guru Granth Sahib explicitly states that this is not allowed, since it says in its very first lines - that all human beings are equal under One God and there is "no Hindu, there is no Muslim". The gurus died defending these beliefs - and so did their children and family members and friends. Human beings - actually lost their lives - defending these beliefs - and it really confuses me why as Sikhs (with a Punjabi identity) - our traditions as Punjabis directly is at odds with teachings in Sikhism - and furthermore, are followed and revered in some respects as higher than the religion. I guess it's based on shame - i.e. "what will people think?" if my daughter married outside of her caste, or married a "black man" or a "white man" (even if he was a Sikh). In a nutshell, what this has resulted in (according to me and my observational skills and human life experience) - is an entire generation (i.e. my generation and the ones younger than it who share the same religious/cultural identity combo) that carries a religious and spiritual void - and has grown up in the west falsely correlating Punjabi culture with Sikhism - but in reality only following a set of prescribed cultural traditions. I have grown up with a lot of female sisters and cousins - highly educated wonderful women - insightful and with unique personalities - that had the same questions as me growing up. What's sad is that I've witnessed so many of them grow up (older than me, or younger than me) and just give up asking or trying to find answers, or questioning things out loud and having open discussions about it. It seems culture always wins out in the end (in a lot of cases) where as women they feel they have no voice anyways, and it's better to just not disrupt the family and just do what they are told even if it makes no sense, and even if it's against their own religion. When they get to this point, they've almost become a shell of their former selves, answering my questions in the same robotic way my elders answered me when I was a kid, "that's just the way it is".

Maybe this is just how it is in every religion - when it comes to cultural rules dictating areas of our life selectively and religion governing others. My main concern is this - when I feel this confused at times - where do I go for answers? My gut instinct tells me the answer is the Guru Granth Sahib itself - because after all, that is said to be the last guru and it IS the Sikh teachings. When I have even inquired about specific passages within the Guru Granth - even then, interpretations from different people make the meaning completely different and sometimes I feel an individual's own agenda has an effect on what they WANT a certain passage to mean. It's just hard - if I for example did something according to the Guru Granth Sahib that was in conflict with Punjabi tradition - I would be shunned in my family - and I know that's the reality for a lot of other Punjabi (male and female) individuals. I am sure that living in the west with immigrant grandparents, and their children (my parents' generation) - also makes things a little more difficult -as immigrants are always scared of losing their identity and in the hope of holding on to it and in fear of losing it they adhere to it even more crazily than those in the 'homeland' would (because those in the 'homeland' don't face the same fear of losing their cultural/religious identity over generations).

For anyone that read this complete post, thanks. I am interested in anyone's feedback and comments. Do you feel the same as I do? Do you ever feel confused as a Sikh? Do you even feel at times that you don't know if you are a Sikh, if you are not baptized (take amrit)? I would be really interested in knowing if anyone has any input or personal experience with what to do when you felt this way - where did you go for guidance and clarification? What helped you to understand Sikhism better? Personally, I know I value religion much, much more than my cultural roots - to me, cultural roots are just traditions that are passed down from generation to generation and I was raised in a country where I was surrounded by every religion and every culture - and every religion always seemed to agree on the major fundamentals - i.e. being a good person and doing the right things, and having morals, and ethics - but cultures all have their own ideas of everything. To me, that is why culture is of little significance - but I know a lot of Punjabis struggle with what I am feeling. I also struggle to get meaning out of my life spiritually and I don't know how to access that or get to it - or to learn, because like I said, in the gurdwara there is no organized clergy there for those questions and discussions like priests in church. Have any of you been confused when you've been raised with certain religious beliefs and then in your daily home life, as a Punjabi, seen this directly contradicted time and time again and wondered why?

I'm looking forward to reading any comments/questions/feedback - maybe it will help me in how to learn more about Sikhism the right way - or in the very least, help me to feel not so alone and lost. Take care everyone, and thanks for reading.

Its good that you opened up ...most sikh / hindu youth dont and then they are stranded somewhere in mid of some cults .

[BhagatSingh]

Traditions may not make sense sometimes but you have to stick by them. They contain the wisdom of our ancestors.

[dalsingh101]

Traditions may not make sense sometimes but you have to stick by them. They contain the wisdom of our ancestors.

I can't see how a Sikh could hold that position when our own founding Gurus blatantly rejected many of their own 'family traditions' Like Baba Nanak and the janeu. The way Guru Gobind Singh devolved the ksyattri role of defender to all and sundry, especially the common people.

Also, what about the point of particular (not all!) aspects of this ancestral 'wisdom' being outdated in a new milieu, especially in a 21st century diaspora? I mean things might be plodding along as it generally has been for centuries in some backward pend, but in the wider world....??? Some of our ancestors burnt widows, shared a wife between brothers and what not. Perhaps we could do without some kinds of 'wisdom'? The discussion should be about what is detrimental and what not.

I'm not saying we all need to get 'modern' - just that conservative conformity to doing things as they are perceived to always have been isn't always a good idea.

On a humorously related note, look at the clip beginning at 50 seconds.

Edited July 6, 2013 by dalsingh101

[BhagatSingh]

Dally the wisdom is not in the form of the tradition, it is behind the form, though it is accessible through the form and that's why preservation of the form is key. Our ancestors understood this, that's why they were keen on following the motions exactly as they were laid out for them. Now if you want to reject tradition go ahead, this is also necessary sometimes. But don't reject it without understanding the wisdom first.( edited)

As for the Gurus, they accepted their family traditions entirely. But that's another discussion for another day.

Edited July 9, 2013 by BhagatSingh

[dalsingh101]

As for the Gurus, they accepted their family traditions entirely.

That's a bold statement which could easily be contested.

[BhagatSingh]

Lol you can contest it in private messages.

[harsharan000]

Dear brother,

in simple words, I would say: one is a Punjabee, by being born in Punjab, and by belonging to that land, by cultural, parental, ancestral relationships or ties. This is a totally wordly aspect.

But being a sikh, is something different or higher. Sikh means disciple.

So if there is a disciple, naturally there has to be a Guru.

Now let us ask ourselves, who are we? Are we the body? The answer will be, no, we are not the body, because the body is made of unconscious and inert 5 tattwas or elements, which remain here when we die.

Then what remains?

Mind and soul / atma.

Mind also is a perishable entity, though finer it maybe. Mind, with the jugtee of Bhajan Bandagee, is left behind in the plane of Braham or the Causal region.

Then what alone is left?

Obviously the soul.

Now as the Bani says: Shabad Guru, surat dhun chela.

Once the coverings of matter or physical body, and mind (astral and causal bodies) are removed from the soul, the soul follows without any obstacles, faithfully its Guru.

So it is clear, the true sikh, is the soul, when it follows its Shabad Guru, with total love, total faith and total devotion, just as a new baby is to it´s mother...

Waheguru.

Edited August 4, 2014 by harsharan000

[karma]

Sorry to say this but you are neither! You don't really know who you are.

To be a Sikh, you have to follow the Guru.

To be a Punjabi you have to follow all the crap that you are surrounded with which the punjabi people introduce to their already crappy culture. Since when did it become a part of the punjabi culture to have a cake cutting ceremony not to mention toasting with champagne at the wedding receptions!! In fact they look so foolish doing this and no wonder they are the laughing stock of the Bollywood movies!! So, to cut the post short:

Sikh = Following the teachings of the Guru.

Punjabi = Following all the crap that is available in one's environment and making it a part of that culture which is already a hodgepodge of all the shite there is regardless of where one is born! It is exactly like the rubbish piled up on the roads of India! The punjabi people never stop piling more and more rubbish to their already decadent culture. It is all man made and complete and utter rubbish with one foot in their punjabi culture and the other in no one knows what - total confusion to say the least!

Cultures decay but Sikhi never does.

Edited August 27, 2014 by karma