Ideal Singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 If you have nothing positive to contribute, try the AKJ forums Everybody please note !!! :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joga singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 you will get your all answers below http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/media/video/index.php properly this http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/media/video/...ksalHistory.wmv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 i do not get it........................ :shock: WHY THE HELL DO WE NEED TO HAVE lineage and know the history of a Samparyada???????? just follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee......if you do not understand..read some acadamic literature written by scholars..Prof. Sahib Singh and Bhai Veer Singh and Bhai Kahan Singh...if you like some guys here hate Singh Sabha and SGPC...........listen to Katha done by various Baba ji's at VARIOUS Samparyadas.......and LEARN FROM ALL! no just one of you own.......be open to ALL kinds of translations....and then use your own intellect and under the message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.....simple as that same thing goes for Sri Dasam Granth and Sarab Loh and all Sikh historic literature...... :twisted: as for Rehit.....check out the Rehitnameh.....and if you not hate Akal Takht and SGPC then check out the present Sikh Rehit Maryada......that is it...... if you like to learn Gatka....buy a sword and start practicing....watch some cool hollywood movies....just kiding guys.... same goes here....learn the techniques from all schools....all nihangi dals.... but do not become the Dal...be open to all knowledge.....peace bros.... and good luck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Deep Singh...this is why you end up with personality cults, manmat, warped ideology, self-concited saints, incorrect interpretation of scriptures, gatka, shabads sung to 1960's film tunes.. etc etc Sampardahs (ie, those institutions with traceable lineages and blessed by the Gurus) ensure that as much as humany possible, knowledge is not lost or skewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 so bro Narsingha....following ONLY Sri Guru Granth Sahib is manmat....? veerji i do not think so..... if you are saying that filmy songs with Keertan.....THAT I AM AGAINST! but do not you think that ALSO hanging out with Samparyadas is CULTISH??? when ppl feel more into THEIR Samparyada/Jatha/or 'panth' as 'Nihang panth' and not a humanbeing....and just a Sikh.... i do not say ban all of these.....NO NO WAY! just do not say i am 'akali nihangi so on' i am just a Sikh.....i learn from EVERY Baba around....i apreciate all of them....that is what i am saying..... Deep Singh...this is why you end up with personality cults, manmat, ....., self-concited saints, Bhaji; NO that is NOT why we end up with self-concited saints.....i do not believe that someone who have lineage is much more important that others.....Everyone can make a point...yes everyone....but with logic every point can be judged and we will have the truth and nothing more...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 If you visit the Nirmalas, Udasis, Seva Panthis, and indeed the Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa, the first thing you will realise there is diversity of thought, tolerance for individuality, and promotion of Gurbaani above all else. There is NO preaching, only promotion of Dharam (righteousness)..there is no emotional blackmail, nor do any of these sampardas consider themselves better than the next..these 4 are four facets to the same diamond of Guru Maharaj's Sikhi. ...and these sampardas have all been started and/or blessed directly by the Gurus themselves...as such they carry Guru Maharaj's kirpa....something modern "jathas" and "committees" do not have...they have been started by individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Bhaji, could you also tell me which samparyada among these 'panths' shall i visit....apparently there are many many Nirmala samparyada and many Nihangs.....so where do i start jee? and on second thought....do all of these samparyadas agree with each other..like respect is one thing....but do the have same Rehit and so on. :?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 So can Nirmalas do gatkha? Umm...are they kesadhari? do they believe in Amrit (khande or naam)? according to various Rehitnameh (do not ask me for quotes because i am not 1/100 part as learned as you) only one who believes in Amrit and Khalsa Rehit can consider himself a Sikh.....so are Nirmalas and UDASIS Sikhs??? and when Guru Nanak Sahib was present.....did he 'bless' udasis as the original missionaries or is this something the western scholars have added to our history? What about the relationship between Udasis and the other Guru Sahibs..... AND even if they were HINDUS...i would go to their dera and look for what kind of knowledge they can share with us.... :wink: because knowledge does not come with any samparyada or even faith....it comes directly fromWaheguru.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 1. All Nirmale are keshdhari 2. Some have shastarvidya 3. They are Sikhs: not Hindus!!! 4. They have, along with Nihangs and Hazur Sahib, the oldest maryada! 5. They are to Sikhi what Jesuits are to Catholicism: missionising intellectuals and protectors of Sikh orthodoxy against heresy! 6. Nirmale and Nihangs used to be the ones who gave amrit:no one else 7. Nihangs and Nirmale are the two wings of the Khalsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 So lalleshvari jee we talking about Nirmalas right... Do you also know what is the difference between their Rehit and the mainstream Rehit of SGPC (the panthic "dushts")? What did they do when the modern Singh Sabhaits were out to distroy their orthodoxy? can you also answar my ques. about Udasis jee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Can you reformulate your question in clear syntax (no insult intended) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Bhaji...... i thought i was the only one who could not read...... anyway... what i meant was is there any difference between SGPC Rehit and Nirmala Rehit? And do Nirmala and other four sanatan 'panths' follow different codes? And you wrote in you post earlier that 5. They are to Sikhi what Jesuits are to Catholicism: missionising intellectuals and protectors of Sikh orthodoxy against heresy! therefor i asked when SGPC/Singh Sabha was out to distroy Sikh orthodoxy where were Nirmalas? What did they do to protect the Purataan Rehit at Sri Darbar Sahib? [what i mean is in the 30s Dasam Granth was lifted from Akal takht and also paintings of Hindu gods were removed...these are 'purataan Sikhi' elements as the Niihang sites tell us...and also the Jathedar of Budha dal was removed...where there any protests from sanatani then???] i hope you understood now Bhaji..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 What can scholars do against stupid violence? Yes there is a lot of difference in terms of rahit between SGPC and Nirmale although Nirmale initially helped the Singh Sabha movement until the mlech took over in it with the help of the British. Regarding the four sampradavan, well they're all different and they have differences in rahit but they're like the fingers of the hand :different yet part of the same hand> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 but bhaji what is the best way of life accroding to Sanatan Sikhi....is it to be Nihang or an Udasi? And please tell me what kind of things make that all these four 'panths' do not accept the Rehit given by Akal Takht Sahib (published by SGPC) as their Rehit.....do they have there own WRITTEN Rehits as Taksal has...or is all this just oral.....or do they believe in Rehitnameh as some Jathe do??? please enlighten this ediot... bhaji the Sikh history i have read does never say that what SGPC did was 'stupid voilence'....what do you mean by that jee.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 They don't accept the modern maryada because it has no parampara, Nihangs were the jathedars of Akal Takhat, not some apointed SGPC granthi. It's not a questiion of who is best udasi, Nihang... The real question is: what is best for you? what are your inclinations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 I opened a new thread on Nirmale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Singh Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Bhaji so we come back to my original post...where i said that we do not need lineage or parampara.... Now Bhaji do you really think Parampara or lineage is important? let us see.... a "normal" Sikh scholar can say something after doing some research of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and that can be either right or wrong....but since he have got no lineage...that does not mean that he is wrong.... now one of these 'panthis' can say something....but it is not sure that he is right...ONLY because is has a parampara to follow.....for the past 300 years or so....every rehit or katha has been given orally......so there is a BIG chance that we have gone from pure Sikhi/Tat-Gurmat to a mix of Gurmat and manmat.....okey a lot of things about Sikhi remain the same....yeah sure...but a lot might also be changed..... and giving samparyada such a high level is wrong...i believe.... When Waheguru jee gave us Guru Granth Sahib and good old logic..what can we lack? i mean let us just see...there are several Nihangis and several Udasi and severeal Sewapanthis and severeal Nirmalas.....now if anyone of them DID NOT glide away from Gurmat then what was the reason for the divisions within their Panths....why does not Taksal (which is said to be a Giani Nirmala samparyada) has the same views as other samparyada......IT IS CLEAR THAT SOME manmat has been included into one or more of the groups.....so we can not say that ALL these groups hold a puran purataan or sanatani shicksha.....their is something which is "wrong" or edited in all of them....that is my point... What i am saying is WE AS "MODERN" Sikhs should not only respect all samparyadas/taksals/deras/jathes but also read what they say about different points in Gurmat and Rehit Maryada.....and then deciede for ourselves what is going on....what is purataan what is sanatan what is tatt Gurmat? in simple words i can say that the Singh Sabha scholars did was some of this....they studied every Rehitnama and every historical work.....to MAKE A UNIFIED CODE FOR US.....which ended up as the Sikh Rehit Maryada.....now some ppl hear hate and insult SGPC and Singh Sabhaits and say that they were british agents and so on....that is not only wrong but also a huge fraud.....it was these Singhs who faught against the british....do you know what ppl like Bhai Veer Singh and others did for us? what i see know is a kind of neo-Nihangs and neo-Samparyadaits coming back and telling us that what Singh Sabha did is wrong.........guys do you really don't understand? they unified Sikh panth..... clear logic can tell you that both Nihang Rehit and Udasi Rehit cannot be equally good.....it is great that all Sanatanis have the same belief in Granths and so on....but also Rehit should be one.... as i asked soem questions about Udasi/Nihang questions here: http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...t=1480&start=45 i did not get any answar..i think Narsingha Bhaji has retired from posting there....so bhaji maybe you could enlighten us.... either here or there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 All, Here is topic question. If there are any individuals who consider themselves experts on Dam Dami Taksal history, could they please answer the following question. I need some help: The "Dam Dami Taksal" (based at Chowk Mehta) also known as "Bhindrawaley Taksal" does not seem to appear referenced anywhere in any historical texts such as Parchian Sevadas, Gurblias Dasmi, Gurpratap Suraj Granth, Prem Sumarg, Prachin Panth Prakash, Naveen Panth Prakash, Guru Sobha, Mahima Prakash, etc. None of the Rehitnaamas (see Pyara Singh Padam's book) mention it either. Perhaps I may have overlooked a text that does mention them? This Taksal is not in the Mahan Kosh either, nor within the late Pyara Singh Padam's comprehensive and detailed text on Puratan Sampardahs. The first mention of this institution appears in a publication by Kartar Singh Bhinderawaley "Damdami Taksal Ithehas Sankhep" in the mid-late 1900s. Incidentally, this is also the FIRST text I have come across that traces the Dam Dami taksal's history to Akali Nihang Baba Deep Singh ji Shaheed, who incidentally was based at Batinda, not Amritsar (correct me if I'm wrong) If this institution at Chowk Mehta is so great within Sikhi as the Dam Dami Taksal followers claim, why is there NO mention of it until Kartar Singh Bhindrawaley's publication in the mid-late 1900's? ..or maybe you can point me to a publication that references them written before Kartar Singh Bhindrawlay's work. Post replies related to topic, if we come across any post which has personal discussion or off topic then it will be deleted without any notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Just wanted to add this excellent damdami takshal website to the discussion. So the sangat can fetch required information to their desire. http://www.damdamitaksal.com/home.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inderjit Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 hey i thougt the taksal discussion had been deleted!!! where have all my posts gone?? or where they on a diff one?? anyway doesnt matter oi nangi you still aint told me about ur gurdev nidar, was he wrong and doing wrong parchar for years and years and yearsssss or lying?? did he read diff translations of the books u mentioned when he taught us about taksal as being started by guru ji??? or was he jus chattin crap? or is he lying now? i asked these before and u got ur knickers (knowing the nags its prob ck boxers or somethin!) in a twist. so stop being clever and answer the question. also seeing how u are constantly telling people that if they want to challenge nidar that they should go and do it to his face... did u even consider going down to see baba takhar singh ji last week while he stayed in london??? why didnt u or one of ur 'boys' go down to see him and question the singhs there?? its ok when u can quit ur jobs and just spend days and days readin books and then acting all clever, but most of us have lives and actually involve ourselves in doing something positive for the quam rather than just being on an ego/bhang high and chattin ****. and i got a question for u too.... what does anakh mean to a nihang? anakh u know like in pride... if a admin cut is challenged can he turn it down? if he does is he still a niang? if he says/threatens to do something and then doesnt do it.. is he still a niang?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted November 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Still awaiting the reply to the original question posed... If there are any individuals who consider themselves experts on Dam Dami Taksal history, could they please answer the following question. I need some help: The "Dam Dami Taksal" (based at Chowk Mehta) also known as "Bhindrawaley Taksal" does not seem to appear referenced anywhere in any historical texts such as Parchian Sevadas, Gurblias Dasmi, Gurpratap Suraj Granth, Prem Sumarg, Prachin Panth Prakash, Naveen Panth Prakash, Guru Sobha, Mahima Prakash, etc. None of the Rehitnaamas (see Pyara Singh Padam's book) mention it either. Perhaps I may have overlooked a text that does mention them? This Taksal is not in the Mahan Kosh either, nor within the late Pyara Singh Padam's comprehensive and detailed text on Puratan Sampardahs. The first mention of this institution appears in a publication by Kartar Singh Bhinderawaley "Damdami Taksal Ithehas Sankhep" in the mid-late 1900s. Incidentally, this is also the FIRST text I have come across that traces the Dam Dami taksal's history to Akali Nihang Baba Deep Singh ji Shaheed, who incidentally was based at Batinda, not Amritsar (correct me if I'm wrong) If this institution at Chowk Mehta is so great within Sikhi as the Dam Dami Taksal followers claim, why is there NO mention of it until Kartar Singh Bhindrawaley's publication in the mid-late 1900's? ..or maybe you can point me to a publication that references them written before Kartar Singh Bhindrawlay's work. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidak Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Narsingha, As Inderjit Singh has already pointed out - Baba Thakur Singh was in Southall only a few weeks ago. There would be no one more appropriate to pose your questions to than the current Jathedar of the Taksal himself, or the Singhs accompanying him. You're not that far from Southall, so distance can't have been a factor. Its strange that you passed up on the opportunity to have all your questions answered face to face by Baba Thakur Singh, yet continue to rant on this site about no one replying to your questions ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted November 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 What makes you think we havent already approached the Taksal and confronted them :wink: I guess no one is willing to provide any evidence...because none exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidak Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 What makes you think we havent already approached the Taksal and confronted them Then why are you still playing your broken record of "no one's answered my question" ? If have actually met the Taksal Singhs, then they will have answered all your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted November 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 If they did I wouldnt be asking for information :roll: Maybe you, dear sidak can help, seeing that you seem very keen on this issue. Then again, maybe this isnt up to your intellect. I expect some kind of pathetic insult will follow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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