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Its all manmat , its so SAD


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Guest kaur1699

Fateh Ji,

Why dont we just forget about all these jathabandis and follow the Guru Granth Sahib ji.

I totally agree with you on this, forget what people have to say (in most cases) and follow Guru Ji, Guru Ji has all the answers...

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although i agree there should be a single panth......what exactly do you mean by just follow the guru not these different jathas?

the reason people join so called jathas is because their interpritation of the rahit is more inline of that "jatha" so they take amrit "from" the jatha so that the panj pyare tell them on the day the rahit that they think is most correct. for example, i will take amrit in the near future, and when i do i will be taking it from the panj pyare. the jatha is irrelevant. but my personal belief is that guruji said keski was the kakkar, meat is not allowed and sarabloh bibek was prescribed (dont get into a discussion on it). so that i am blessed with amrit and a rahit that i myself believe is the "authentic" one, i will take amrit from a panj who have such beliefs, and by people are termed to be "akj singhs". after i take amrit i will never call myself akj, just khalsa. u no wot i mean?

=========Edited=============

Mod's Note: Keep your hate towards radhswamis, namdharis and other groups to yourself. Dont want it on this site

i dnt think i expressed myself too clearly there....bt anyways

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the reason people join so called jathas is because their interpritation of the rahit is more inline of that "jatha" so they take amrit "from" the jatha so that the panj pyare tell them on the day the rahit that they think is most correct.

Isn't it sarcastic that our Panj piraye are not even sure about rehat maryada and we have to go for the most correct but not fully.

but my personal belief is that guruji said keski was the kakkar, meat is not allowed and sarabloh bibek was prescribed (dont get into a discussion on it).

No discussion but simple line for this. How can you validate that your personal beliefs are correct?

so that i am blessed with amrit and a rahit that i myself believe is the "authentic" one, i will take amrit from a panj who have such beliefs

Your personal beliefs you have mentioned above are in controversies and whole panth is not inclined towards them so in that case you will end up following your personal beliefs not Rehat Maryada of Sikhism.

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Isn't it sarcastic that our Panj piraye are not even sure about rehat maryada and we have to go for the most correct but not fully.

there are some **messed** panj pyare out there. some will tell you to take jhatka meat, or take bhang, or sukkha. but whatever the panj tells you, you MUST obey. hence you should make a decision on what you think is right.

No discussion but simple line for this. How can you validate that your personal beliefs are correct?

my personal belief on keski as a kakkar are validated by the following:

1) the darshan guru gobind singh has given truthful gurmukhs such as bhai rama singh

2) the strong belief in keski by bhai randhir singh, who i consider one of hte most spiritually elavated men since the gurus times

3) the account of vaisaikhi and inclusion of "keski" as a kakkar in the bhatt vahees (there are 2 records, both saying keski), the MOST reliable source available to us today

4) the rahitnama of bhai chaupa singh explicitly mentioning keski, and the implication of keski as a kakkar by those such as bhai daya singh (one of the original panj pyare) and bhai prahlad singh.

5) simple logic that each kakkar has to be seperate from hte body, and kesh is more important than all the kakkars, and is already listened as a kurehit (hajamat) so should not need to be a kakkar also.

that is my basic validation. there are a few more historical and other bits of evidence here and there.

Your personal beliefs you have mentioned above are in controversies and whole panth is not inclined towards them so in that case you will end up following your personal beliefs not Rehat Maryada of Sikhism.

who made the SGPC rehat maryada? HUMANS. not the guru. the current rehat says we can eat meat, whilst GURU HARGOBINDS hukamnama says dont even go near fish or meat!!!! how can we be so trusting of a group of humans over our guru? aside from the points of controversy, i have full faith in the rehat maryada as it is based on sound rehatnamas and historical evidence.

are you saying that the views of those in the AKJ are not sikh? what about the damdami taksal, they have differences in rehat also? nihungs? the bottom line is, whenever you take amrit, you will take it from a jatha. take it from "no jatha" and you are taking it from people in line with SGPC views. take it from a jatha eg akj and you will take it with people in line with AKJ views. certainly one is "wrong" and the other "right" but it doesnt mean the amrit is invalid or mukti not possible.

we are all human and we all make mistakes. the reason there are differences in the rehat is because humans make mistakes. it shouldnt be made into such a huge deal where or who we take amrit from, providing we are not following some manmat ideas and we have evidence behind them. not all AKJers are going to jaam, neither are all nihungs, taksaalis, or whoever else.

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but my personal belief is that guruji said keski was the kakkar, meat is not allowed and sarabloh bibek was prescribed (dont get into a discussion on it)

I think you are trying twist your own words here. I just tried to show you that your own beliefs are respectful but they are not inclined with whole panth and that was the point I made and I didn't go in details because you have said it clearly that you didn't want to have discussion. I have it in red for you to have a look on your own words.

Now next post you are posting here to convince that your beliefs are right and this is the problem you come across when you follow any particular jatha because you go by the jatha not by the whole panth so in that case your beliefs can be right in the boundries of particular jatha but as whole panth they will remain in controversies till whole panth approves them.

I'll ask you to visit the thread where these controversies discussions are in progress and members are discussing it because I will keep your words and won't get into discussion and you should keep your words as well because you have said something else and doing the opposite.

It's against sikhism's rehat/code of conducts to run away from your own words.

Here is Gurbani to back up my statement.

karai bachan jo paalai naahee(n) gobi(n)dh si(n)gh this t(h)aar n aahee ||

Those who do not remain true to their word will be abandoned forever..

Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee

bachan karae thai khisak jaae bolae sabh kachaa || a(n)dharahu thhothhaa koorriaar koorree sabh khachaa ||

He gives his word, but then backs out. All that he says is false. The false person is hollow within; he is totally engrossed in falsehood.

Page 1099 Guru Arjan Dev Jee Raag Maroo

You just went against Guru ji's teaching as you didn't remain on your words because you have said it that you didn't want to get into discussion but just to prove that your beliefs are right you went against your own words so I would suggest you learn more about Sikhism so you don't end up screwing up your beliefs because of organized knowledge of Sikhism.

Thanks!

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I think you are trying twist your own words here. I just tried to show you that your own beliefs are respectful but they are not inclined with whole panth and that was the point I made and I didn't go in details because you have said it clearly that you didn't want to have discussion. I have it in red for you to have a look on your own words.

no not really. like i said i have evidence for my views. i dont follow others like sheep. if i was some akj-brainwashed person then i would also reject ragmalla, which i dont. i dont base my ideas on the majority, i base it on what is rational. best way.

Now next post you are posting here to convince that your beliefs are right and this is the problem you come across when you follow any particular jatha because you go by the jatha not by the whole panth so in that case your beliefs can be right in the boundries of particular jatha but as whole panth they will remain in controversies till whole panth approves them.

nah i wasnt trying to convince anyone, i was just showing my evidence, which YOU asked for.

if you blindly follow the mainstream views of majority of "the panth" on every subject you come into difficulties. in the early 1900s, most of the panth rejected ragmalla. there was a time when akal takht sent a hukamnama NOT to read ragmalla at all. this is because the singh sabha questioned pretty much everything. alot of dasam granth was also rejected till a little more recently. stuff like triyah charitrer was ignored completely till later on. if you follow the panth your ideas will constantly be changing!

I'll ask you to visit the thread where these controversies discussions are in progress and members are discussing it because I will keep your words and won't get into discussion and you should keep your words as well because you have said something else and doing the opposite.

wot are u talking about? calm it man. ive read all the controversies on the net, in books, from others and ive made a decision. nothing new will come up in it. i have argued alot with people in the past and realised that debates and discussions, in real life or on the net, arent always fruitful.

It's against sikhism's rehat/code of conducts to run away from your own words.

W are u talkin about?

Here is Gurbani to back up my statement.

Quote:

karai bachan jo paalai naahee(n) gobi(n)dh si(n)gh this t(h)aar n aahee ||

Those who do not remain true to their word will be abandoned forever..

Rehatnama Bhai Nand Laal Jee

Quote:

bachan karae thai khisak jaae bolae sabh kachaa || a(n)dharahu thhothhaa koorriaar koorree sabh khachaa ||

He gives his word, but then backs out. All that he says is false. The false person is hollow within; he is totally engrossed in falsehood.

Page 1099 Guru Arjan Dev Jee Raag Maroo

nice bani.

You just went against Guru ji's teaching as you didn't remain on your words because you have said it that you didn't want to get into discussion but just to prove that your beliefs are right you went against your own words so I would suggest you learn more about Sikhism so you don't end up screwing up your beliefs because of organized knowledge of Sikhism.

u r chatting breeze man. are you my schoolteacher lol, tryna catch me out at every word i say?

you said previously:

How can you validate that your personal beliefs are correct?

and i gave my reasons for my personal beliefs. stop dragging on something because you know your wrong, lol, it may start to pee me off in the not too distant future.

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