sidak Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Khalistanis will have u believe "Raj" within that couplet refers to "physical kingdoms", lands to rule over, countries, etc. Twisting meanings taken out of context to fit their own desires....manmat! If "Raj" in that couplet was, as Khalistanis claim, referring to "physical lands", etc, then, Guru maharaj would not have stated elsewhere within Gurbani that it is not the desire of a Sikh to seek "Raj" or "Mukti" (in this context, referring to "Raj" in the sense of "physical kingdoms", "rule", etc) Narsingha, Seems like your grasp of propositional logic is somewhat lacking. It is correct that the Guru Granth Sahib states that gaining political power is not the primary aim of a Sikh - but this in no way contradicts the above couplet which states that in order to propogate and sustain dharam, politicial power is absolutely neccessary. Getting back to my question about the role of the Budha Dal in current day Panjab - are we to believe that the Budha Dal is now a defunct and redundant institution, living on former glories ? Or does it actually serve a useful function for the sikhs living in Panjab in terms of protecting human rights, protecting freedom of speech, and dealing appropriately with those who dishonour the guru granth sahib in public? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 So the Rehat runs through your veins, how so since you weren't even born a Sikh and I doubt you could be classified as a Sikh under whatever Rehat you chose to follow Bikramjit, you have implied that an essential component of a true Sikh is to have been born a Sikh. I'm confused! Please answer the following questions: 1) The implication that a Sikh can only be born a Sikh, suggests your view of Sikhi is of a culturally and geographically specific religious movement rather than an independant and timeless set of beliefs of practices. Is this correct? 2) What written evidence do you base this on? 3) Do you feel Sikhs are akin to Jews, the 'chosen ones' entwining both ethincity and religion? 4) How does this relate to the early Gurus and Sikhs who became 'Sikhs'? 5) Does the 'man in blue' know your opinions?! lol I'm very keen to hear your reply, as we all know this is a very topical issue within the sangat in the UK, thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 It's always interesting to see how some people seem to know some much about without having met me and spread lies about me and who I am although I have invited those same people to meet me and they refused my invitation... Some people seem to have ridhian sidhian here... I enjoy the fact of having people spread lies about me the more they spread them the more I grow strong :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Narsingha, Seems like your grasp of propositional logic is somewhat lacking. It is correct that the Guru Granth Sahib states that gaining political power is not the primary aim of a Sikh - but this in no way contradicts the above couplet which states that in order to propogate and sustain dharam, politicial power is absolutely neccessary. Getting back to my question about the role of the Budha Dal in current day Panjab - are we to believe that the Budha Dal is now a defunct and redundant institution, living on former glories ? Or does it actually serve a useful function for the sikhs living in Panjab in terms of protecting human rights, protecting freedom of speech, and dealing appropriately with those who dishonour the guru granth sahib in public? this thred is already started.....buddha dal in current day...go look for it.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms514 Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Sat Sri Akal: First, Nihung Santa Singh recognized the supremacy of the Akal Thakat. Wanna know how? He apologized and served his punishment given by the Akal Thakat for his little Indira-supported post-1984 transgression. He recognized the Akal Thakat as the authority of Sikhism. Talk is indeed cheap. Go observe that action. The Akal Thakat is the supreme organization of the Sikh Panth. Even your Baba recognized that. The ONLY thing that SGPC was instructed to do was to PUBLISH the Rehat Maryada, AFTER it was approved by a meeting where many Sikh opinions met and discussed (Nirmalas and Nihungs were also contributors to that Rehat Maryada) to get the opinions of the Khalsa Panth before making a draft. And please, Guru Panth is NOT Nihungs only. Guru Panth is the Khalsa, which was the only organization the Guru Sahib himself was a part of. The Khalsa is comprised of the Amritdhari Sikhs, not just Nihungs. The Khalsa Panth was consulted while making the Rehat Maryada and the final draft was passed. Lastly, a lot is made about Nihung this and Nihung that. As stated before, a Nihung is a Sikh who will fight to the death for Sikhism. It is the ACTIONS that make a Nihung, not talk. You hate SGPC and their anti-Sikh actions: Do something about it rather than speaking whispers on the internet. If you truly want the Nihungs to be the vanguard of the Sikh Panth, then do something worthy of your heritage instead of talking about pot and hate about other Sikhs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BikramjitSingh Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 JtSingh I took the comment that Rehat runs through someone's veins to mean that they have been brought up in a Sikh household and have therefore been imbued with love for the Rehat as well as having many generations of ancestors who were 'Rehatvaan' Sikhs. This is not clearly the case with lallesvari. I assume now that for him it was possible for spend a few months with Udasis and Nirmalas in India and suddenly have the Rehat flowing though his veins. lallesvari is indeed fortunate, many GurSikhs I know have been Amritdharis for many years and come from a long line of Amritdhari families yet they would never be so arrogant as to claim that the Rehat flows through their veins. As for the man in blue, I have a great deal of respect for Harjinder Singh whose views are a refreshing addition to any debate about Sikhi. Harjinder Singh only espouses views which are in accordance with Sikhi and for every issue he discusses there is either a Gurbani Tuk to back it up or an incident from Sikh history or tradition. Unfortunately this cannot be said to be the case with Lallesvari and his views. GurFateh Bikramjit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Bikramjit was travelling with me at that time he can tell you everything about me, he knows me intimately to the point where I ask myslef if he does not like too much in a "non-natural" way....I remember those nights in December at the Varis Bhavan on the Patiala Uni Campus. I remember how on New Year's eve at midnight he took my hand and looked at me in the eyes for a long long time.... yes if there anyone here on this forum who knows me intimately it's Bikramjit... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BikramjitSingh Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Bikramjit was travelling with me at that time he can tell you everything about me, he knows me intimately to the point where I ask myslef if he does not like too much in a "non-natural" way....I remember those nights in December at the Varis Bhavan on the Patiala Uni Campus. I remember how on New Year's eve at midnight he took my hand and looked at me in the eyes for a long long time.... yes if there anyone here on this forum who knows me intimately it's Bikramjit... Post now sent as PM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I have posted the above personal comments to show that what I have said about him are based on comments made by people who know him. Breath easy both of you Sikh Scholars in the making... Dont indulge in useless backbiting... :roll: Dear Bikz: What if the people you are corresponding are jealous of lalleshwari Penji... You can not judge a person on somebody's behalf... Everybody is at different levels of understanding of... Sikhism in this case... Let us share what we have to contribute... and where ever we are wrong, simply point it out... rather than start condeming each other... the same backbiting is going on in Moderan Ram Raes Thread... Be peace with each other... Nobody is gonna change others thinking just by hurting others' egos... our knowledge is restricted to what ever we have learned so far... no need to booast of it... for Gods sake Dont prove that proverb right that "The more a person gains knowledge the more proud he gets about his knowledge... "... Remember how the people (Masands) appointed by Sikh Gurus, to preach Gurbani, themselves started claiming to be Gurus... Dont let our petty knowledge get into our heads, dear fellow members... BCM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 I know a middle aged lady,a relative, who lives in Hounslow. A pious lady whose devotion is coupled with a deep sense of humanity and tolerance. She is amritdhari but does not make a show of it. When I go to her house she leaves me in the living room drinking my cha and tells me she is going to do the cleaning upstairs... but in fact she does her pAth... Her kindness and love for people from all communities has always been an inspiration to me and the affection she has shown to me for all these years has been a driving force in my work. Last year I was there in the kitchen enoying one those cups of tea you enjoy because you adore the person who made it. We were talking about Sant Dalel Singh Nirmala, a famous Nirmala Sant from Hoshiarpur and went on talking about mystical experiences... She then told me this: Don't repeat what I am going to tell you to anyone in the family otherwise they'll think I am crazy! One morning I was doing pATh of Sukhmani Sahib and suddenly the room was filled with an intense golden light. I had never seen such a thing in my life. I saw how the light inside of me was the light outise of me and how the light outside of me was the light inside of me. I felt intense peace and love and felt Rab's presence. After she had told me this I was in tears. What did I do in my past life to deserve to know someone like that, to have the right to listen to this. A simple housewife had experienced what I have been thirsting for years. I may know many languages, I may have studied in some of the most prestigious universities but the fact remains that I am nothing but a worm compared to that woman. I know the limitations of my knowledge in the sense that all of us are limited beings. I am beggar at the door of Maharaj. My scholarship is nevertheless not a wothless instrument. My scholarship is my fishing net with which I get inumerable pearls from the ocean of gurbani knowing that in the end these pearls are infinite. My aim is not the pearl but fishing! My intellect, my heart and my body stands in awe and innocent admiration in ront of the deapth of Maharaj. The more I know and the more I realise I know nothing. But Maharaj wanted us all to be educated, to know many languages, master different arts and he gave us the example himself and that's why he created the Nirmala sampradaya.If my "erotic" discource bothers some people, well better get used to it because a third of Dasam Guru Granth is full of it! Some people want to measure their knowledge to other's people knowledge. I am not interested in that kind of games. Never argue with those who know more than you or know less than you: it's a waste of time. I don't have the arrogance of pretending that I know Bikramjit# be it directly or though "mysterious" contacts... No, he really doesn't know me at all ... If you don't mind I am going to go back get some pearls... love to you all (including Bik) lalleshvari #my previous post was of course a joke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 Well said lalleshvari... especially this: I know the limitations of my knowledge in the sense that all of us are limited beings. I am beggar at the door of Maharaj. My scholarship is nevertheless not a wothless instrument. My scholarship is my fishing net with which I get inumerable pearls from the ocean of gurbani knowing that in the end these pearls are infinite. My aim is not the pearl but fishing! My intellect, my heart and my body stands in awe and innocent admiration in ront of the deapth of Maharaj. The more I know and the more I realise I know nothing. Mahaaa Akaaaaaal :twisted: :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 That was a very nice and touching post JE "appreciatemont" que vous "said" lol VEry nice and touching post One question though can you please be a bit detailed about what you mean with: Or if i formulate my question again in what way is one third of Dasam Granth is full or erotic-stuff ? I have not yet read and understood it..thats why I'm curious :? because a third of Dasam Guru Granth is full of it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 Dear Mr Singh it was a reference to Charitropakhyan which is about a third of Dasam Guru Granth. merci beaucoup tres cher ami pour votre bienveillance toute chevalresque et empreinte de noblesse! humblement votre lalleshvari 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 :shock: okay... I undersstand that but I'm not even going to TRY to answer to that in french ..I'll jus say S'il vous plait :shock: but can you be a bit more specific about is its erotic what does it teach :shock: lol sounds wierd :shock: :? can u please elaborate what that section teaches us :? ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 First of all one has to understand that in India eroticism has never been viewed with shame or guilt as it was in Europe. Eroticism is an art that every educated person was supposed to master as part of one's education. Charitropakhyan depicts the world as it is with its complexities and innumerable tricky situations. It is about how to avoid getting trapped in messy situations. Some of the tales can be interpreted as military tactics or spiritual allegorical tales like in Rumi's Masnavi with the story of the slave and the donkey. Of course it also has a didactic function. As SIkhi encourages grahisti it is essential for any Sikh to know how to make one's partner happy emotionally and physically. Charitropakhyan draws from all kinds of sources: Inidic mythology, Kathasaritsagara, Persian Sufi literature (the tale of Usuf and Zulaikha) and Panjabi folk tales (Hir Ranjha,etc..) . As Charles Baudelaire would say: Luxe, calme et volupte! :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 First of all one has to understand that in India eroticism has never been viewed with shame or guilt as it was in Europe. Eroticism is an art that every educated person was supposed to master as part of one's education. Charitropakhyan depicts the world as it is with its complexities and innumerable tricky situations. It is about how to avoid getting trapped in messy situations. Some of the tales can be interpreted as military tactics or spiritual allegorical tales like in Rumi's Masnavi with the story of the slave and the donkey. Of course it also has a didactic function. As SIkhi encourages grahisti it is essential for any Sikh to know how to make one's partner happy emotionally and physically. Charitropakhyan draws from all kinds of sources: Inidic mythology, Kathasaritsagara, Persian Sufi literature (the tale of Usuf and Zulaikha) and Panjabi folk tales (Hir Ranjha,etc..) . As Charles Baudelaire would say: Luxe, calme et volupte! :wink: As SIkhi encourages grahisti it is essential for any Sikh to know how to make one's partner happy emotionally and physically. That said it all Thanks for clearing that up for me ..... The discussion has REALLY gone off topic :? Now I think we should get back to the topic :shock: ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BikramjitSingh Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 lallesvari How easy it is to go from one reeking of ego to being one ever so humble. Your 'humble' post is in marked constrast to your previous post describing anyone who does not honour your scholarship and has to audacity to challenge your views as leading boring lives sitting behind a PC. Describing anyone who doesn't share your views as pseudo scholars. Maybe you're undergone a experience similar to the one on the road to Damascus. I doubt that. Give it time and the old and familiar Lallesvari with all his arrogance and ego will return. And then I read this by Lallesvari I thought the BJP was ruling India at the moment? :roll: all that with the collaboration of tha Akali Dal :roll: BJP, Akali Dal, SGPC, RSS, AKJ,Shiv Sena, Congress, VHP etc: all a bing bunge of bloody bitches :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Ah.. see we have our old Lallesvari back. Humble Lallesvari didn't even last a few days !. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 oh hoh :roll: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 no need to comment 8) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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