Guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Gurfateh Deepspirit Penji, Firstly welcome to the forum Your post was so illuminating, thankyou for your views, look forward to reading more :wink: Gurfateh Gurpreet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 Sorry but it seems to me that people only talk about male masturbation here, but girls do masturbate as well :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepspirit Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 Yes lalleshvari ji, this is true. It is just not that big a deal for women. Women don't lose anything, and are within the expanded aura themselves. Still, the yoga sets and kriyas, and the methods of relaxing afterwards, apply to women as well. The essense of creative energy resides within women and men. In this way we are the same. The circulation of that energy is key to enjoying life to its fullest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepspirit Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 Grupreet ji, Thank you for the warm welcome. I hope I can be of service as I learn from everyone as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 sorry deepspirit but I am quite confused by some of the yogic terminology you use, you use a lot of new age terms like "creative energy"etc... could you please give me the sanskrit equivalent plus reference so that I can understand clearly what you're saying. I am just a bit confused about waht you're trying to say :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhasingh Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 If you have time to masturbate, you have time to meditate! Smasher of line 8) deepspirit,excellent post and welcome,please tell us more of this, this is what we needed to hear someone with a sensible, +ve post You talk of Chakar Energy,what is this and how do we use it? Do we have -ve energy's, what about foods we eat what affects us, positively,negatively etc ? Would be excellent even if you have sites that we could link to 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinghMunda Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 When others die, you measure your own wealth in your mind; you waste your life in the pleasures of the mouth and sexual organs. ||3|| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepspirit Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 Thanks for your questions. I’ll do my best to answer them. 1. Creative energy: this is what gives one the ability to fully interact with life. It is what enables one to create something new, in thought, through writing and communication, through artistic expression. In Gurmukhi, I believe it is called Purkha. In its feminine aspect it is the Mata Shakti. 2. The chakras are energy centers, points, meridians in the body. This terminology is based on aruvedic principles of healing. There are 8 chakras. 1st is anal area (base of support, survival), 2nd is sex organs (reproduction, creativity), 3rd is the navel (power, digestion), 4th is the throat (expression), 5th is heart (kindness, compassion), 6th is the pituitary gland, 3rd eye,(intuition), 7th chakra is the moon center on the top of the head (infinite connection, pineal gland, aka tenth gate), 8th is the aura (protective shield). A blockage in the 2nd chakra could cause one to be really horny or completely uninterested in sex. It can work either way. This is where lust resides. This block could also cause one to be very stubborn in their thinking and in their communication. 3. Negative and positive energies: not really. There are openings and flow of energy and blockages. Foods definitely have an impact, it has to do with digestion and elimination. Undigested food or food that is not eliminated in the right time frame will bog down one’s system and cause one to feel negative. There is no dark side, just blockage. This is just touching on these topics. I don’t think that more info here is appropriate for the original topic. Here are some sites fyi: This one is from N3Osingh: http://www.snsm.org.my/library/yogiji/yogiji.htm These are other 3HO sites: http://www.3ho.org/ http://www.sikhnet.com http://www.a-healing.com http://www.kundaliniyoga.org/ http://www.aquariantimesmagazine.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Sorry deepspirit but I was actually asking for the sanskrit terms and classical Indian text references for what you were saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Sorry deepspirit but I was actually asking for the sanskrit terms and classical Indian text references for what you were saying. she doesnt know sanskrit. She is a good friend of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepspirit Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 sat nam as N3O relied, I don't know sanskrit. But I do know the essence of these teachings so let me investigate a little and see what I can come up with! It will take a day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Do you actually teach yoga? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Do you actually teach yoga? Yes, She does. I requested her to give us "Tutiorial" on yoga and "Frequently asked questions" on yoga. She just went outta town. Be back in few days. So be pateint, when she comes back. She will enlighten us what yoga can do in our daily lives. Yoga + gurbani (Super Cosmic Power) helps a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 NO offence, I really appreciate Deepspirit's posts and I am sure she's a good yoga teacher but I really would recommend her to learn Sanskrit. Amongst Nirmale you'll find that teaching yoga without knowing sanksrit does not make sense, unless you teach New Age yoga, then it's a different thing altogether. But I think that a good philological background is ncessary. Imagine you have to deal with certain special situations that are only explained in certain Sanskrit agamas, sutras or tantras. What will you do? :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepspirit Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 HeHe you make it sound so dismal to have to learn something! Do you know Sanskrit? Teach me!! In any case, I will find the references I need to help you to understand what I am saying. As far as "new age yoga", Kundalini yoga is an ancient science handed down in part by the Raj Yog, Guru Ram Dasji. Feel the Blessings of the day. Above all else, let us all rise up and be great in the image of Guru Gobind Singh. Then all discussion and knowledge will be abundantly available to all of us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 Yoga + gurbani (Super Cosmic Power) helps a lot. ************************************************************* Did anyone get today's hukamnama? RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: You calculate the auspicious days, but you do not understand that the One Creator Lord is above these auspicious days. He alone knows the way, who meets the Guru. When one follows the Guru’s Teachings, then he realizes the Hukam of God’s Command. || 1 || Guru'sword, Gurbani or Naam Jaaping is Highest Above all. Kundalini yoga, hatha yoga and all these things are just mere "nakhra" ..."bahana". Yoga is nothing but science beyond human thinking. If Guru Ji wants He can explain us what all this yoga and how all these things work inside the body and can tell everything about this science, for Guru Ji and God it is not something big , becoz God created it. We get astonished and amazed because we dont know about it, but as Guru Ji said "Jo var chaho so tum te paho. Tumeh chaad koi avar nah dahiyo." ----> "i will ask my desires from you and I will not depend on anything else besides you." Falling at God's feet is the highest yoga, those who do that dont need to do chakra stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 jjj, search yoga in sggs ji: http://www.sikhitothemax.com/search.asp You will find lot of pages on yoga. There guroo maharaj ji is telling us to balance Yoga. Not ignore them completely. Here are some of the verses that praises yoga: suniai jog jugath than bhaedh || Listening-the technology of Yoga and the secrets of the body. Guru Nanak Dev Ji Jap 2 By Guru's Grace, practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||1|| Guru Arjan Dev Ji Raag Gauree 211 jog giaan sidhh sukh jaanae || knowledge of the science of Yoga, spiritual wisdom and the pleasure of miraculous spiritual powers Guru Arjan Dev Ji Raag Gauree 202 How can you disqualify yoga all together when our guroo's themselfes practiced it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 N3OSingh, You are giving me one-line out of shabads and not typing the full shabads. The Yoga that Guru Ji indicating in the shabad is the yoga of meditating on God's Name and not doing some circus type of poses or sitting down like a crane and meditating on third eye and trying to open chakras. All these exercises are futile. I will later print out some shabads which directly support this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 **THIS has nothin to do with Guruji telling us to do Yoga. It is only saying that by listenning to the praiseso f God, kirtan, Naam ... we can acquire all this knowledge. ****Again this is only one line from the shabad and is saying nothing about it. Guruji never practiced Yoga. Yoga is about poses, meditating on chakra, kundalini stuff and all these things. As far as I know Guru Ji attained God only through seva, simran and bhakti examples of this is given by Guru Angad, Guru Amar Das, Guru Ram Das, Guru Arjun Dev. Where did these Gurus practice different types of poses or exercises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 this is a full shabad that disqualifeis yoga. Plz read it full !! An important practice of any yoga is hatha yoga and pranayama(drawing of breath in and out)... it is part of Raja Yoga and even kundalini Raamkalee, First Mehl: raamkalee mehlaa 1. Practicing restraint by Hatha Yoga, the body wears away. hath nigarahu kar kaa-i-aa chheejai. The mind is not softened by fasting or austerities. varat tapan kar man nahee bheejai. Nothing else is equal to worship of the Lord`s Name. ||1|| raam naam sar avar na poojai. ||1|| Serve the Guru, O mind, and associate with the humble servants of the Lord. gur sayv manaa har jan sang keejai. The tyrannical Messenger of Death cannot touch you, and the serpent of Maya cannot sting you, when you drink in the sublime essence of the Lord. ||1||Pause|| jam jandaar johi nahee saakai sarpan das na sakai har kaa ras peejai. ||1|| rahaa-o. The world reads the arguments, and is softened only by music. vaad parhai raagee jag bheejai. In the three modes and corruption, they are born and die. tarai gun bikhi-aa janam mareejai. Without the Lord`s Name, they endure suffering and pain. ||2|| raam naam bin dookh saheejai. ||2|| The Yogi draws the breath upwards, and opens the Tenth Gate. chaarhas pavan singhaasan bheejai. He practices inner cleansing and the six rituals of purification. ni-ulee karam khat karam kareejai. But without the Lord`s Name, the breath he draws is useless. ||3|| raam naam bin birthaa saas leejai. ||3|| The fire of the five passions burns within him; how can he be calm? antar panch agan ki-o Dheeraj Dheejai. The thief is within him; how can he taste the taste? antar chor ki-o saad laheejai. One who becomes Gurmukh conquers the body-fortress. ||4|| gurmukh ho-ay kaa-i-aa garh leejai. ||4|| With filth within, he wanders around at places of pilgrimage. antar mail tirath bharmeejai. His mind is not pure, so what is the use of performing ritual cleansings? man nahee soochaa ki-aa soch kareejai. He carries the karma of his own past actions; who else can he blame? ||5|| kirat pa-i-aa dos kaa ka-o deejai. ||5|| He does not eat food; he tortures his body. ann na khaahi dayhee dukh deejai. Without the Guru`s wisdom, he is not satisfied. bin gur gi-aan taripat nahee theejai. The self-willed manmukh is born only to die, and be born again. ||6|| manmukh janmai janam mareejai. ||6|| Go, and ask the True Guru, and associate with the Lord`s humble servants. satgur poochh sangat jan keejai. Your mind shall merge into the Lord, and you shall not be reincarnated to die again. man har raachai nahee janam mareejai. Without the Lord`s Name, what can anyone do? ||7|| raam naam bin ki-aa karam keejai. ||7|| .............................................................PAGE 905 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 jjj - i dont think anyone is sayin that yoga is above sikhi - and that you can gain mukhti from yoga... but it helps people to concentrate and loose connection to maia... and ive heard that the pose that we do when we take amrit (left heel on the floor right knee up) is a yoga position i aint never done any type of joga - and if i got the chance to learn some i would give it a go to see what effect it has most definitly - im sure it has some relaxing properties which help us meditate on naam with much more ease... anyone i found this quote on yoga which is very good (Guru Nanak, Suhi, pg. 730) There is but One God, By the True Guru's grace, He is obtained. Yoga is not in the patched coat, nor the Yoga is in staff, nor Yoga is in smearing the body with ashes. Yoga consists not in earrings, or in shaven head and Yoga is not even in the blowing of the horn. Abide pure amidst the worldly impurities. Thus shalt thou find the way of Yoga. By mere words Yoga is obtained not. He is called a Yogi who looks upon all mortals with the same eye and deems them as equal. Yoga consists not in wandering to yonder tombs, or crematoriums, or sitting in trance. Yoga consists not in wandering in native and foreign lands, nor in bathing at places of pilgrimage. Abide thou pure amid the worldly impurities. Thus shalt thou find the way of Yoga. If man meets with the True Guru, then is his doubts dispelled and the wandering mind is restrained. It rains Nectar, celestial music plays and from within his mind, man obtains gnosis. Remain thou pure amid impurities. Like this shalt thou find the way of Yoga. Nanak in the midst of life be thou in death. Practice thou such a Yoga. When the horn blows within being blown, then shalt thou obtain the fearless status. When man remains detached amidst worldly attachments, then attains he the way of Yoga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 PAGE 906 The many Siddhas and seekers, silent sages and demi-gods siDh saaDhik kaytay mun dayvaa. cannot satisfy themselves by practicing restraint through Hatha Yoga. hath nigrahi na tariptaaveh bhayvaa. One who contemplates the Word of the Shabad, and serves the Guru - his mind and body become immaculate, and his egotistical pride is obliterated. ||6|| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 SB, The yoa that Guru Nanak is talking about in the shabad is the yoga of meditatin on naam, simran and bhakti. Tell me where does any Guru recommends that you deal with hatha yoga, breathing exercises , fasting or the technology of chakras? I have had enough experience in all of these things and yes they can produce good psuedo effects that one is progressing, but in reality True Peace and Meditation on Naam only comes out of **Love** and when there is true desire to meet God. This is the only permanent cure to the 5 evils and this is the only permanent meditation, peace , mukti whatever you want to call it. Rest you can keep on practicing Yoga for all your life but nothings gonna work. and did you know that Swami Nitya Nand has wrote that he use to practice yoga for several decades up on the himalayas but it was all useless and it did not help him and when he died at the age of 120, he said that he will have to be born in the house of Guru Nanak and meditation on naam, bhakti to achieve mukti. The thin is that we... ourselves cant do anything. We are powerless. True spritiual progress only comes by His grace. we can do as much yoga, and experiement will all types of yoga technologies, methods, techniques.. but none of this is goin to help. Only His Grace is the prime factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 JJJ, Its your wish to reject yoga in your journey in sikhism. But as far bani is concern. Everyone has their own interpretation of gurbani. I think gurbani doesnt restrict you do yoga or consider yoga as kurehit. I would follow my guroo's sahiban's and to make this matter crystal clear. I have done search on most sikh saints in our history. ie- Sant Baba Nand Singh ji maharaj, Sant baba ishar singh ji rara sahib, Sant baba teja singh ji rara sahib used some form of yoga to help themselves with chakras and dsama dwaar. Here is picture of one of the sikh saints perfoming yoga to connect himself with almightly. so you would reject his holiness just because he is performing yoga. That be utter non-sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted August 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 okay everyone has their own impression on this, I wouldnt argue with you. If you wanna do yoga , you can do it. Ofcourse Yoga is not a kurehit.... but I dont take refuge in the technoloy of Yoga and nor do I follow any sant mahapursh, that is their way of life. My concern is with Guru Sahibaan and I want to follow and lead a life as they themselves taught us by example (grihisthi) and as for bani.. i already checked out the shabads that you gave. In no bani the Guru ji recommend you to do yoga on the contrary I have you two shabads in which Guru Nanak clearly criticised hatha yoga as it wears out the body. There are many sikh saints that practice yoga, picture might be one of them. There are those also who dont get married and everyone has their own life-style and not all of them practice the way Guru Sahibaan tauht. So I wouldnt follow them or recognise them. There are also many HIGH REALIZED SIKH SAINTS. I had personal contact, who may not approve of these methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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