Hunting.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

I was wondering whether you can assist me with the following queries in relation to Guru Sahibaans' hunting:

1.) How do we justify the Gurus' hunting in light of Shabads in Gurbani which are deemed to be pro-vegetarian and against killing? i.e. (1103) You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher?

(1128) One who contemplates the essence of reality remains awake and aware. He kills his self-conceit, and does not kill anyone else.

(1375) Kabir, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper. When the Lord calls for their account, what will their condition be? Kabir, it is tyranny to use force; the Lord shall call you to account. When your account is called for, your face and mouth shall be struck.

2.) What would Guru Sahibaans do if the animal suffered i.e. a warrior has brought an animal down with an arrow and the latter is suffering. What would the Guru's recommend?

3.) Essentially, why did the Gurus' hunt?

4.) What types of animals is the Khalsa not allowed to hunt/consume?

5.) What were the Gurus' views on excessive hunting?

6.) Why is Halal forbidden to the Khalsa?

Thank you very much and I look forward to your response.

[jaikaara]

We need to 'accept' the transition of the Panth i.e. from a Sant marag to Sant Sipaahi..this balance is only achieved if Aad Baani and Dasam baani are followed.

Aad Bani has a collection of banis of Sants like Kabir Sahib who's baani had bairaag rass...

After persecution of the Guru Sahibaan the Panth started to militarize from the times of Guru HargobindSahib ji Maharaj .

The Dasve Paatsah ji gave a formal military form to the Panth and made it the Khalsa..tyaar bar tyaar .

Persecution had reached its limits and the Khalsa could not live securely..,they lived in jungles and were Chakarvarti...A military order

who was using survival skills was no more the bairaag sant ..he was armed to the core..and ready to fight back .

Every ban imposed by the Mughals was challenged.The Jhatka maryada was one of them, the Sanatan ancient method of decapitating the animal at one blow was stopped and this issue became like a maryada that a Khalsa will eat meat only which is slaughtered by Jhatka.

2.) What would Guru Sahibaans do if the animal suffered i.e. a warrior has brought an animal down with an arrow and the latter is suffering. What would the Guru's recommend?

Answer : The animal is most cases is shot at those parts of the body which are said to give instant death.This is basic rule of any hunter sikh or otherwise...muslims are an exception because they prefer to halal the animal.

3.) Essentially, why did the Gurus' hunt?

To invoke Bir Rass ..to train the fauj to get used to the sight of blood and kill for food too.

4.) What types of animals is the Khalsa not allowed to hunt/consume?

There is not written code..it is understood that beef is not permitted..in Uggardanti baani Maharaj mentions cow protection..

5.) What were the Gurus' views on excessive hunting?
Guru HarGobind Sahib hunted and after the formation of Khalsa it was part of the activities.Excessive hunting is never permitted and traditional hunters know the rules...females are not hunting ..young ones too in many cases ..

6.) Why is Halal forbidden to the Khalsa?

Halal was imposed in India by the Mughals ..they strongly objected to Jhatka ..in rebellion Guruji revived the ancient tradtion and made this a rule which was unsaid..since in ancient India there was no halal..and it ws understood the animal is decapitated at one blow.

I was wondering whether you can assist me with the following queries in relation to Guru Sahibaans' hunting:

1.) How do we justify the Gurus' hunting in light of Shabads in Gurbani which are deemed to be pro-vegetarian and against killing? i.e. (1103) You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher?

(1128) One who contemplates the essence of reality remains awake and aware. He kills his self-conceit, and does not kill anyone else.

(1375) Kabir, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper. When the Lord calls for their account, what will their condition be? Kabir, it is tyranny to use force; the Lord shall call you to account. When your account is called for, your face and mouth shall be struck.

2.) What would Guru Sahibaans do if the animal suffered i.e. a warrior has brought an animal down with an arrow and the latter is suffering. What would the Guru's recommend?

3.) Essentially, why did the Gurus' hunt?

4.) What types of animals is the Khalsa not allowed to hunt/consume?

5.) What were the Gurus' views on excessive hunting?

6.) Why is Halal forbidden to the Khalsa?

Thank you very much and I look forward to your response.

[Genie Singh]

I think without me doing enough research into it, the pro-vegetarian shabads are human right, women rights, animal rights and eco environmental right shabads and on other virtues like honest and integrity instead.

As per hunting there are different reasons, such as violent animals attacking innocent people Lions, Tigers, bears, killing innocent villagers, innocent children being eaten alive by wild beasts and attacking Sikhs. For game meat since other more suitable humbler foods were not at easy to get (which is an animal right issue more so), as well as sakhis of people being liberated, such as Mallu Khatri, it had been said Guru Nanak in his later jama (vessel) would later give him liberation after he died, he did alot of sewa but became rapped in ego, Guru Gobind Singh shot a wild animal which showed it's self to be Mallu Khatri to Sikhs.

But considering the lineage of the early Sikhs documented in Maharaja Ranjti Singh's time it seems more of them were hunters who ate meat, like the Patialla family, the Akali Nihangs, Ranjit Singh - the pro-vegg argument is that is all propoganda or they corrupted Sikhi, they were not following the truth. I say look at the not so pro-veggeterian shabads and ask why

One of the most pro-vegetarian Sikhs, Baba Nand Singh sat on a lion skin in many of his photos- I wonder why if he felt passionate about not harming animals.

Edited February 4, 2015 by JatherdarSahib

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

We need to 'accept' the transition of the Panth i.e. from a Sant marag to Sant Sipaahi..this balance is only achieved if Aad Baani and Dasam baani are followed.

Aad Bani has a collection of banis of Sants like Kabir Sahib who's baani had bairaag rass...

After persecution of the Guru Sahibaan the Panth started to militarize from the times of Guru HargobindSahib ji Maharaj .

The Dasve Paatsah ji gave a formal military form to the Panth and made it the Khalsa..tyaar bar tyaar .

Persecution had reached its limits and the Khalsa could not live securely..,they lived in jungles and were Chakarvarti...A military order

who was using survival skills was no more the bairaag sant ..he was armed to the core..and ready to fight back .

Every ban imposed by the Mughals was challenged.The Jhatka maryada was one of them, the Sanatan ancient method of decapitating the animal at one blow was stopped and this issue became like a maryada that a Khalsa will eat meat only which is slaughtered by Jhatka.

2.) What would Guru Sahibaans do if the animal suffered i.e. a warrior has brought an animal down with an arrow and the latter is suffering. What would the Guru's recommend?

Answer : The animal is most cases is shot at those parts of the body which are said to give instant death.This is basic rule of any hunter sikh or otherwise...muslims are an exception because they prefer to halal the animal.

3.) Essentially, why did the Gurus' hunt?

To invoke Bir Rass ..to train the fauj to get used to the sight of blood and kill for food too.

4.) What types of animals is the Khalsa not allowed to hunt/consume?

There is not written code..it is understood that beef is not permitted..in Uggardanti baani Maharaj mentions cow protection..

5.) What were the Gurus' views on excessive hunting?

Guru HarGobind Sahib hunted and after the formation of Khalsa it was part of the activities.Excessive hunting is never permitted and traditional hunters know the rules...females are not hunting ..young ones too in many cases ..

6.) Why is Halal forbidden to the Khalsa?

Halal was imposed in India by the Mughals ..they strongly objected to Jhatka ..in rebellion Guruji revived the ancient tradtion and made this a rule which was unsaid..since in ancient India there was no halal..and it ws understood the animal is decapitated at one blow.

Just out of interest is hunting in accordance with Gurbani? This is only for my limited knowledge and regarding the beef thing I have read the following in Parchian Dasan Patshaia Ki:

'When the Guru adorned his high seat, a man suddenly appeared and cried, "Oh true emperor! I have become guilty of cow slaughter." The Guru instructed the attendant to conduct him nearer to him. On being asked the man repeated, "oh true emperor, I have become guilty of cow slaughter." "Don't be stupid, you appear to be under the influence of a Masand. That is why you are upset and lamenting thus. So what if a cow has died? Go home and relax. It is the Lord alone, and none else, who kills and revives," said the Guru.'

- 'Episodes from Lives of the Gurus.' Parchian Sewadas, trans. with commentary by Kharak Singh and Gurtej Singh (Chandigarh Institute of Sikh Studies, 1995), pg. 50-53.

[jaikaara]

The possibility here is the cow might have got killed by the person accidentally ..the mentality of the so called priestly class then was to extract money in the name of conducting rituals to 'free' the person of the 'sin' and Guru Sahib knew the futility of such rituals which would follow.

Uggardanti Bani by Guru Sahib says "gau ghat ka dukh jagat se mitau"

Just out of interest is hunting in accordance with Gurbani? This is only for my limited knowledge and regarding the beef thing I have read the following in Parchian Dasan Patshaia Ki:

'When the Guru adorned his high seat, a man suddenly appeared and cried, "Oh true emperor! I have become guilty of cow slaughter." The Guru instructed the attendant to conduct him nearer to him. On being asked the man repeated, "oh true emperor, I have become guilty of cow slaughter." "Don't be stupid, you appear to be under the influence of a Masand. That is why you are upset and lamenting thus. So what if a cow has died? Go home and relax. It is the Lord alone, and none else, who kills and revives," said the Guru.'

- 'Episodes from Lives of the Gurus.' Parchian Sewadas, trans. with commentary by Kharak Singh and Gurtej Singh (Chandigarh Institute of Sikh Studies, 1995), pg. 50-53.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

The possibility here is the cow might have got killed by the person accidentally ..the mentality of the so called priestly class then was to extract money in the name of conducting rituals to 'free' the person of the 'sin' and Guru Sahib knew the futility of such rituals which would follow.

Uggardanti Bani by Guru Sahib says "gau ghat ka dukh jagat se mitau"

Hmmm thats a very good way of looking at it.

[dalsingh101]

It's well worth looking at dasmesh pita's own words on the subject (from Bachitar Natak):

ਰਾਜ ਸਾਜ ਹਮ ਪਰ ਜਬ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਜਥਾ ਸਕਤ ਤਬ ਧਰਮ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥

When I obtained the position of responsibility, I performed the religious acts to the best of my ability.

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਨ ਖੇਲ ਸਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਮਾਰੇ ਰੀਛ ਰੋਝ ਝੰਖਾਰਾ ॥੧॥

I went hunting various kinds of animals in the forest and killed bears, nilgais (blue bulls) and elks.1.

ਦੇਸ ਚਾਲ ਹਮ ਤੇ ਪੁਨਿ ਭਈ ॥ ਸਹਰ ਪਾਂਵਟਾ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ਲਈ ॥

Then I left my home and went to place named Paonta.

ਕਾਲਿੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਤਟਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਲਾਸਾ ॥ ਅਨਿਕ ਭਾਂਤ ਕੇ ਪੇਖ ਤਮਾਮਾ ॥੨॥

I enjoyed my stay on the banks of Kalindri (Yamuna) and saw amusement of various kind2.

ਤਹ ਕੇ ਸਿੰਘ ਘਨੇ ਚੁਨਿ ਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਰੋਝ ਰੀਛ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਿਦਾਰੇ ॥

There I killed may lions, nilgais and bears.

ਫਤੇਸਾਹ ਕੋਪਾ ਤਬਿ ਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਲੋਹ ਪਰਾ ਹਮ ਸੋ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਾਜਾ ॥੩॥

On this the king Fateh Shah become angry and fought with me without any reason.3.

[JungChamkaur]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilgai

[paapiman]

On 1/31/2015 at 10:20 PM, Amarjeet Singh_1737 said:

I was wondering whether you can assist me with the following queries in relation to Guru Sahibaans' hunting:

1.) How do we justify the Gurus' hunting in light of Shabads in Gurbani which are deemed to be pro-vegetarian and against killing? i.e. (1103) You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? You call yourself the most excellent sage; then who would you call a butcher?

(1128) One who contemplates the essence of reality remains awake and aware. He kills his self-conceit, and does not kill anyone else.

(1375) Kabir, they oppress living beings and kill them, and call it proper. When the Lord calls for their account, what will their condition be? Kabir, it is tyranny to use force; the Lord shall call you to account. When your account is called for, your face and mouth shall be struck.

2.) What would Guru Sahibaans do if the animal suffered i.e. a warrior has brought an animal down with an arrow and the latter is suffering. What would the Guru's recommend?

3.) Essentially, why did the Gurus' hunt?

Please listen to Gyani Inderjeet Singh jee Raqbewale explaining why our Satgurus hunted. He narrates a historical incident from the life of Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master)

Please start listening at 24:00 min:

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Sant_Giani_Inderjeet_Singh_(Raqbe_wale)/Sri_Gurpartap_Sooraj_Parkash_Katha/06_Sri_Guru_Har_Gobind_Ji/Giani.Inderjeet.Singh.(Raqbe.wale)--Sooraj.Parkash.Katha.-.Ras.04.Adhyai.51.-.Do.Koha.Te.Dera.-.1995-05-04.mp3

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

Quote

Bhai Mani Singh beautifully recited these stories of the Exalted Guru's miraculous feats. In the early morning (6-9am) the True Guru would write stories of Krishna [Krishnavatar in Dasam Guru Granth].

With such a great [poetic] skill the Guru sang [these verses of Krishnavatar], which all the Sikhs desired to hear, as it was such a purifying composition. Then after this the Guru would come out to eat and hold a Divan [court session].

Following this, the Compassionate One would take with him all the warriors, they would partake in hunting, killing many tigers, wild boars, nilgays (blue-bulls), and endless amounts of pigs, rhinos, and rabbits.

Unquote[1]

[1] - Guru Gobind Singh's Routine at Paonta Sahib - Gurbilas Patshahi 10 (1751) (manglacharan.com)

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

https://youtu.be/eb6ja96y6Ps

 

Bhul chuk maaf