Are MEN equal to WOMEN?

[Ideal Singh]

Taken from another forum...

From the Gurbani perspective that really is the question and the correct

assumption behind the question. The onus of proof is on men, not women. Perhaps the wrong question has been asked until now due to non-Sikh influence.

In the context of the present debate about the right of women to do sewa at Darabar Sahib, some confused Gurbani and tradition based arguments have been heard recently. These offer rather lame excuses and rely on, hitherto, traditionally complementary roles of men and women and point to the physical attributes and “limitations†of women. All such arguments have absolutely no sound basis whatsoever.

No, the real problem is that the establishment is afraid and feels insecure

– maybe quite rightly so. It should be honest about it and face up to ot,

instead of using brainwashed proxies in Sikh diaspora to raise questions and doubts. The jathedars know that our religious centres are not as safe for women as we would like to believe, especially in the late hours. Well they should be and as soon as possible with proper arrangements, while due apologies for the present mess should be unreservedly offered to Sikh women worldwide instead of resorting to silly tactics. Two wrongs will not make a right.

(Also coming out and confusing the objective debate are personal insecurities, prejudices and nasty experiences in own lives of both, men and women.)

PS: Oh yes. And let the “grey-beards†speak openly and not whisper snide comments at functions as has been the recent experience in UK. What are the qualities required in a human soul for union with the Ultimate Reality? And who has these qualities naturally and therefore a head start? Who works 4 times harder than the other and makes most of the sacrifices at home in family life? Take not the extreme generosity of the woman in many roles as mother, sister and wife etc. as her weakness and proof of inferiority! And, therefore, have the audacity to interpret Gurbani accordingly when such model roles are described therein.

Your come-uppance is almost certainly due my chauvinistic male colleague!

[Guest]

It's not about Equality, Men and Women are created differently, therefore they are not equal in every sense.

There should be complete Equal Opportunity, which the Guru's preached between both sexes.

This does not exist, as seen from the ridiculous rule of exempting Sikh women from performing Kirtan Sewa at Harmander Sahib. It's very sad, but as TruthBhaji mentioned in another thread, we NRI's sit back and are incapable of doing anything, except moaning about it from afar. :roll:

Gurfateh

[randip singh]

It's not about Equality, Men and Women are created differently, therefore they are not equal in every sense.

There should be complete Equal Opportunity, which the Guru's preached between both sexes.

This does not exist, as seen from the ridiculous rule of exempting Sikh women from performing Kirtan Sewa at Harmander Sahib. It's very sad, but as TruthBhaji mentioned in another thread, we NRI's sit back and are incapable of doing anything, except moaning about it from afar. :roll:

Gurfateh

I beg to differ....it is not only about equality but equality and diversity................equality is only about letting people into the shop.....equality and diversity is about actually having something in that shop that the person wishes to buy..........no point letting you in if there is no opportunity to buy anything........... :shock:

[Guest]

I beg to differ....it is not only about equality but equality and diversity................equality is only about letting people into the shop.....equality and diversity is about actually having something in that shop that the person wishes to buy..........no point letting you in if there is no opportunity to buy anything...........

you what?

Equality and Diversity are opposites, how can there be equality when there is diversity? There can be equal opportunity though. Men and Women are different in many ways. However, this 'diversity' should not hinder giving both equal 'opportunity'. We let both of them in the shop, but only men get the 'opportunity' to buy anything, as you put it. The opportunity should be given, whether people make use of it or not is up to them.

Fact remains, without word games, women are not given equal opportunity, at the most significant and important shrine of the Sikhs.

Gurfateh

[Ideal Singh]

July 31, 2003: Amritsar, India

In a recent visit to Darbar Sahib, a Sikh man and his sister arrived early in the morning for the parkash ceremony. As the doors opened to the walkway leading to the Harmandir Sahib, the Sikh man's sister was made to stand out of the walkway. All women were prevented from following the palanquin (palki) down the walkway, even if they were far behind the crowd. Women were asked to move into the narrow median between the incoming and outgoing paths of the walkway, or were made to stand in the outgoing path.

This is a new development in the long-running controversy over the denial of women by Darbar Sahib management to perform palki seva. Although this discrimination had been in practice for decades, the issue exploded when two Amritdhari women from the U.K., Mejindarpal Kaur and Lakhbir Kaur, were forcefully removed from the palki seva queue.

But not allowing women to even stand in the walkway behind the procession had not been reported before. To make matters worse, pictures of the parkash ceremony show non-Sikh men, wearing scarves, holding the palanquin or waiting in queue. This is a blow to Sikh women who have been struggling for equal rights to do seva.

An Amritdhari Sikh woman who also experienced this discrimination and watched non-Sikh men carrying the palki stated that her concern was not

that non-Sikhs should not be allowed to do the seva, buy that women should be allowed to do the same. She expressed that seva should be open to anyone who desired to do it.

The SGPC had set up a committee to address the women's seva issue earlier this year. The committee of five, including two women, was expected to make its recommendation in mid May of this year, but missed the deadline which was imposed two months earlier. Nothing has been heard publicly on the issue since. Sources close to committee members, however, indicate that a report has been completed and sent to the SGPC. The report is said to include recommendations on measures that Darbar Sahib management should take to ensure women are more inclusive and equal participants in performing various kinds of seva, including palki seva.

Sources say that the report will be made public soon, although a date was not given. In the meantime, Sikh women are watching themselves being excluded in new ways from being a part of the seva experience.

http://sikhsentinel.com/sikhsentinel0307/womenssevasinks.htm