ramgharia Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 in many religon homosexuality is a sin what sikhi veiw on homosexuality ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 in many religon homosexuality is a sin what sikhi veiw on homosexuality ? Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh There is no place for gay marriages in Sikhism. One of the most important functions of a sexual relationship is to procreate. You tell me brother, how will two males procreate naturally? Having said the above, there is no discrimination against gay people in Sikhism. The doors of the king (SATGURU SRI GURU NANAK DEV JEE MAHARAAJ) are open to all. Take care. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IJJSingh Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Your argument that marriage's main function is to procreate does make some sense. However, I do not think that a marriage without procreation is illegitimate. If procreation were to be the primary requirement for accepting a marriage, then shouldn't Sikhs ban heterosexual marriages where: - One or both of the partners are past the child bearing age? - One or both of the partners had a medical sterilization procedure? - Couple has decided not to have children? How much of the procreation responsibility do we have to exercise to make a marriage legitimate? An average healthy couple who chose to have two children over a twenty year of child bearing period planned to procreate less than once in every thousand times they chose to have sex. Are we same as homosexuals 99.9% of the time when we have sex knowing full well that we are doing so not to procreate? Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Oversall sikhi has neutral stance on homosexuality when it comes to one's soul (jiv atma) -spiritual evolution/amrit. Homosexuality/Heterosexuality has no bearing on sikhs individual amrit spiritual journey from spiritual aspect as sikh aim to beat five vices regardless if you are hetro-straight or homosexual. However, when it comes to socio-religious aspect such as marriage, homosexuality marriage is not compatible with core sikh religious marriage values. Our leaders should resolve this whole debate or divisive topic by providing proper context and aspect. Sikhi stance from spiritual, socio-religious context, so its fair for both sides. Leaders should think of ways including everyone in eternal beautiful garden of satguru nanak dev ji not push them away but at the same time draw clear lines to uphold sanctity of anand karaj maryada as well. One thing i have always mentioned, if we read anand karaj..its very very spiritual so it never made sense to me how anand karaj became cultural symbol of punjabi marriage. This got turned into dogma They should have more generic compositions from gurbanis with vows, spiritual encouragement/upliftment shabads/adapting gurmat shabads from gurbani for initial beginners -sehajdhari/punjabi have similar framework to include homosexuals, every person who is interested in sikhi regardless of sexual orientation is great asset to panth at various levels- be it social, political, diplomatic, various skills all can contribute to flourish khalsa panth grow. We are turning our kaum into exclusiveness instead of inclusive which was actual aim of arrival of satguru nanak dev ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 Your argument that marriage's main function is to procreate does make some sense. However, I do not think that a marriage without procreation is illegitimate. If procreation were to be the primary requirement for accepting a marriage, then shouldn't Sikhs ban heterosexual marriages where: - One or both of the partners are past the child bearing age? - One or both of the partners had a medical sterilization procedure? - Couple has decided not to have children? How much of the procreation responsibility do we have to exercise to make a marriage legitimate? An average healthy couple who chose to have two children over a twenty year of child bearing period planned to procreate less than once in every thousand times they chose to have sex. Are we same as homosexuals 99.9% of the time when we have sex knowing full well that we are doing so not to procreate? Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Bro, the reason I said that one of the main functions of sexual relationship is to procreate, is because having sex for PLEASURE is a sin. I know it sounds very strict, but this is Gurmat. A Sikh can have sex with his wife only with the intention of getting a child. Now, sometimes the sexual act will have to be repeated in order to get the wife pregnant. The intention is the key. *On a lighter note, Srimaan Sant Baba Nand Singh jee Maharaaj once told a person that a husband can have sex with his wife, a maximum of once a week. But, he also said that a Sikh should be brave and try to remain unmarried* (Celibate) which according to me indicates that the above statement was possibly made for ordinary people like me. *Reference - Sri Nanaksar Stairs to God Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savinderpalsingh Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) kabal hukam nama , patshahi dasvi partangami nahi hona Dont be gay same has been translated by Prof satbir singh it is also considered as a very huge bujar kureith Edited April 4, 2015 by savinderpalsingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 kabal hukam nama , patshahi dasvi partangami nahi hona Dont be gay same has been translated by Prof satbir singh it is also considered as a very huge bujar kureith Thanks a lot mate for the information. Also bro, do you know if tenth master has mentioned about gays and lesbians in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee? Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savinderpalsingh Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Thanks a lot mate for the information. Also bro, do you know if tenth master has mentioned about gays and lesbians in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee? Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh WahegurujikaKhalsa WahegurujikiFateh i have not read dhan sri dasam patshah ka granth yet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 So sex is forbidden for any married couple past child bearing age? Or if the wife due to medical reasons has had a hysterectomy? Should they only then remain friends and never get married? If someone is past childbearing age, are they doomed to follow rest of this journey of life alone? I thought I read in dasam granth that sex with one's own spouse is fine... even if its for bonding (there is proof that emotional bonding occurs during sex, even if not for procreation) bringing spouses closer together. But then Guru Ji goes on to say do not even in your dreams go to the bed of another... so to me its saying with spouse is fine (within reason outside of lust and attachment) to be close to each other and bond. It is said that during sex, even spiritual energy merges between the two... which kind of follows suit with anand karaj... blissful union. But that it is wrong to even dream of going into the bed of another. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) So sex is forbidden for any married couple past child bearing age? Or if the wife due to medical reasons has had a hysterectomy? Should they only then remain friends and never get married? If someone is past childbearing age, are they doomed to follow rest of this journey of life alone? I thought I read in dasam granth that sex with one's own spouse is fine... even if its for bonding (there is proof that emotional bonding occurs during sex, even if not for procreation) bringing spouses closer together. But then Guru Ji goes on to say do not even in your dreams go to the bed of another... so to me its saying with spouse is fine (within reason outside of lust and attachment) to be close to each other and bond. It is said that during sex, even spiritual energy merges between the two... which kind of follows suit with anand karaj... blissful union. But that it is wrong to even dream of going into the bed of another. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh There is no doubt that in Gurmat, sex for pleasure is a sin. I talked to a Gurmukh from DDT about this matter and he agreed with my opinion. In my opinion, sex for pleasure with wife is a SIN but can be easily forgiven by Satguru jee as Maharaaj understands that Kaam is a very strong force. On the other hand, any other sexual activity with anyone else other than your spouse (belonging to opposite sex) is a cardinal sin. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited April 5, 2015 by paapiman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) kabal hukam nama , patshahi dasvi partangami nahi hona Dont be gay same has been translated by Prof satbir singh it is also considered as a very huge bujar kureith Singh saab, I don't think being gay or not is within a person's hand. I guess the Hukamnama is saying that don't indulge in a sexual manner with the same sex, which is a bujjar kurehit. If a person is gay by birth, he can be part of the Khalsa Panth as long as refrains from any sexual activity with the same sex. We need to make sure that Gays and Lesbians are not discriminated in Sikhism as the doors of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj are open to all. Please do clarify. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh Edited April 5, 2015 by paapiman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 I really hoped gyani from DDT talk about this subject more deeply and get right to essence of gurmat in way its not black and white and it make sense. Anything that binds or confine your real self- pure consciousness/awareness is sin (be it good or bad actions), since our real self pure achal(motionless) pure awareness express itself quite spontaneously effortless its unconfined flow expressing itself via its creation always in motion in this world unconditioned unconfined. From absolute truth perspective, its IKoankar One non dual pure jot(knowledge)/awareness being fully nirlaip-de-attached not confined yet fully expereincing itself via its creation, expressing itself in movement - creating, preserving and changing creation, expressing itself without any agenda, sponteounsly effortlessly choicelessly. Here is sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj says- akaal purkh- sat himself is enjoyer- bhugtaie. Chattra Chakkra Vartee, Chattra Chakkra Bhugatay, Suyambhav Subhang Sarab Daa Saraab Jugatay. Dukaalan Pranasee, Diaalang Saroopay, Sadaa Ang Sangay, Abhangang Bibhutaay You are pervading in all the four directions, the Enjoyer in all the four directions. You are self-illumined, profoundly beautiful, and united with all. Destroyer of the torments of birth and death, embodiment of mercy. You are ever within us. You are the everlasting giver of indestructible power. But from relative reality since everyone of us are stuck in relative reality-maya- bhogi-enjoyer, bhog- enjoyment is all maya, we are subjected to five vices, karams, reincarnation, hell, heaven etc. So its matter of pure enlightened realized perception, one needs to get rid of egoic conditioned mindset/ doership let truth-gurbani shallow them alive- merged them in jevan mukht (ekta of nirgun and sargun state) then only through full embodiment of absolute-truth one can engage in relative realities without getting caught up because then one is god realized--bhramgyani which sees everything with pure perception/with realization of absolute truth as gurbani states- Chattra Chakkra Vartee, Chattra Chakkra Bhugatay, Suyambhav Subhang Sarab Daa Saraab Jugatay. Dukaalan Pranasee, Diaalang Saroopay, Sadaa Ang Sangay, Abhangang Bibhutaay You are pervading in all the four directions, the Enjoyer in all the four directions. You are self-illumined, profoundly beautiful, and united with all. Destroyer of the torments of birth and death, embodiment of mercy. You are ever within us. You are the everlasting giver of indestructible power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) I really hoped gyani from DDT talk about this subject more deeply and get right to essence of gurmat in way its not black and white and it make sense. Anything that binds or confine your real self- pure consciousness/awareness is sin (be it good or bad actions), since our real self pure achal(motionless) pure awareness express itself quite spontaneously effortless its unconfined flow expressing itself via its creation always in motion in this world unconditioned unconfined. From absolute truth perspective, its IKoankar One non dual pure jot(knowledge)/awareness being fully nirlaip-de-attached not confined yet fully expereincing itself via its creation, expressing itself in movement - creating, preserving and changing creation, expressing itself without any agenda, sponteounsly effortlessly choicelessly. Here is sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj says- akaal purkh- sat himself is enjoyer- bhugtaie. Chattra Chakkra Vartee, Chattra Chakkra Bhugatay, Suyambhav Subhang Sarab Daa Saraab Jugatay. Dukaalan Pranasee, Diaalang Saroopay, Sadaa Ang Sangay, Abhangang Bibhutaay You are pervading in all the four directions, the Enjoyer in all the four directions. You are self-illumined, profoundly beautiful, and united with all. Destroyer of the torments of birth and death, embodiment of mercy. You are ever within us. You are the everlasting giver of indestructible power. But from relative reality since everyone of us are stuck in relative reality-maya- bhogi-enjoyer, bhog- enjoyment is all maya, we are subjected to five vices, karams, reincarnation, hell, heaven etc. So its matter of pure enlightened realized perception, one needs to get rid of egoic conditioned mindset/ doership let truth-gurbani shallow them alive- merged them in jevan mukht (ekta of nirgun and sargun state) then only through full embodiment of absolute-truth one can engage in relative realities without getting caught up because then one is god realized--bhramgyani which sees everything with pure perception/with realization of absolute truth as gurbani states- Chattra Chakkra Vartee, Chattra Chakkra Bhugatay, Suyambhav Subhang Sarab Daa Saraab Jugatay. Dukaalan Pranasee, Diaalang Saroopay, Sadaa Ang Sangay, Abhangang Bibhutaay You are pervading in all the four directions, the Enjoyer in all the four directions. You are self-illumined, profoundly beautiful, and united with all. Destroyer of the torments of birth and death, embodiment of mercy. You are ever within us. You are the everlasting giver of indestructible power. Bro, I think you are at a very high level as compared to a wild animal like me. Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Nanak dev jee Maharaaj. Edited April 5, 2015 by paapiman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savinderpalsingh Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Singh saab, I don't think being gay or not is within a person's hand. I guess the Hukamnama is saying that don't indulge in a sexual manner with the same sex, which is a bujjar kurehit. If a person is gay by birth, he can be part of the Khalsa Panth as long as refrains from any sexual activity with the same sex. We need to make sure that Gays and Lesbians are not discriminated in Sikhism as the doors of Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj are open to all. Please do clarify. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh he can be a part of khalsa panth but cant marry another guy thats the price you pay however i heard someone say that even in veda's the homosexuality is shown as disease , its related with how brain confuses same same with oposite sex with smell i still have to search vedas for that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 he can be a part of khalsa panth but cant marry another guy thats the price you pay however i heard someone say that even in veda's the homosexuality is shown as disease , its related with how brain confuses same same with oposite sex with smell i still have to search vedas for that Interesting stuff. Please do let us know, if you figure out more details. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Bro, I think you are at a very high level as compared to a wild animal like me. Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Nanak dev jee Maharaaj. Nothing to do with being high level its about understanding nature of truth and working towards earnestly abiding in the truth. Off course it won't be easy there will lots of up and down but at least we all be try to be in truth in earnestly.. Earnesty is main thing ..paap and paun does not exist in absolute truth that's the reason we cannot box these black and white rules to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) - sorry- Posted in wrong thread. duhhh.... Edited April 6, 2015 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) Ju should no hab da sax, iph ju are no marry and wanting da babies! If ju hab sax wid jour bife and ju are no doing to make da baby, ju are big one paapi baastuda who is going da nark! Ju hab been warn!! Edited April 6, 2015 by dalsingh101 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) Hmm if being intimate with your own spouse is wrong, then why get married? If it's only for a baby, then a woman can easily go get artificial inseminated. If a married couple only wants one child, are they supposed to never touch each other again after the child is born? Once the woman becomes infertile in mid 40's the married couple should get separate beds and become just friends? What's the point of marriage then? You can do all else with just friends. I thought the Gurus were in support of living house holder life and not that of an ascetic who avoids living. I have always read that there is a huge difference between showing caring and love for your spouse, and becoming attached and lustful. And that relations with your own spouse is fine. I am approaching 40 fast, and being married soon... to an Amritdhari Singh. He is NOT DDT affiliated though if that matters. But maybe since many women my age have trouble conceiving and carrying to full term, in your opinion should I just forget about marrying him and just have him as a friend? Same as all my other friends? SInce there is a good chance I may never have a child? I don't see a point marrying someone if you will only ever be 'married' in name only. And this doesn't seem right... Even the Amritdhari couples I know, who wanted one child, I am absolutely positive they have not all of a sudden got separate beds and decide to live as friends. Also is it anything that gives pleasure should be stopped? I get pleasure from skydiving, also playing guitar. Should I stop those too because they have no direct practical conclusion. They are only done for pleasure... Can you provide quote from SGGSJ to support this stance? I could not find anything about it in Sikh Rehet Maryada. It seems as long as a couple go through anand karaj, Sikhi seems to stay out of the bedroom so to speak... Is this only a DDT interpretation? Edit: When I searched in SGGSJ for this topic, in many places where it warns about being engrossed in sexual desire, it also talks about hunger and pleasures of the 'mouth'. I think is a good comparison, because it would be impossible to cut out food altogether. But if you interpret the lines in the way you have, you would have to also cut out all food. It doesn't make sense. I think the message is more about control, and moderation. Eat but don't overindulge... relations with your own spouse are ok, but not to the point of sexual addiction or lust... Page 224, Line 4 ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਬਿਖੁ ਭੂਖ ਪਿਆਸਾ ॥ काम क्रोध बिखु भूख पिआसा ॥ Kām karoḏẖ bikẖ bẖūkẖ pi▫āsā. by sexual desire, anger, corruption, hunger and thirst. --- Further, I have found on several sikh sources online that kaam is defined as 'uncontrolled sexual desire' not ALL sexual desire. And what about when Guru Ji says: Bind Raakh jo Tariho Bhai, khusrey kion na paramghat payee ??? Also: Raag Aasaa, Pannaa 418 Some control their sexual energy and are known as celibates, but without the Guru's word, they are not saved and they wander in reincarnation II6II This seems to suggest that merely by avoiding sex, will not get you to God... seems to support sex with ones own spouse is fine, but do not let it control you. Edited April 7, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Wealth is not bad but the love for wealth is... In Sri dasam Granth guru Ji talks about all this... You will get your answers from there.. In my opinion the physical relation with your significant other is something that brings the couple closer... It strengthens their Bhagti.. But if one has a sex addiction etc that is wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Hmm if being intimate with your own spouse is wrong, then why get married? If it's only for a baby, then a woman can easily go get artificial inseminated. If a married couple only wants one child, are they supposed to never touch each other again after the child is born? Once the woman becomes infertile in mid 40's the married couple should get separate beds and become just friends? What's the point of marriage then? You can do all else with just friends. I said that ONE of the main functions of sexual relationship is to procreate. Obviously, there is more to marriage than just having kids. It has various emotional and psychological advantages. Coming to the topic of friends, in Gurmat, one can only have friends of the same gender. A woman is either like your mother,sister or daughter before marriage. There is no concept of boyfriend/girlfriend or just friend of opposite sex in Sikhism. Therefore, in Gurmat marriage offers a person to interact with the opposite sex which is not possible otherwise. That is why marriage is different than friendship. Also is it anything that gives pleasure should be stopped? I get pleasure from skydiving, also playing guitar. Should I stop those too because they have no direct practical conclusion. They are only done for pleasure... Don't even compare playing a guitar or skydiving with having sex. Sex destroys man's body. That is why, it is banned in Sikhism. Anything that a person does, which breaks him away from the remembrance of God is not good, but not all will be classified as a sin. For example, having sex for pleasure/doing drugs will be a sin but not playing basketball or skydiving. Edit: When I searched in SGGSJ for this topic, in many places where it warns about being engrossed in sexual desire, it also talks about hunger and pleasures of the 'mouth'. I think is a good comparison, because it would be impossible to cut out food altogether. But if you interpret the lines in the way you have, you would have to also cut out all food. It doesn't make sense. I think the message is more about control, and moderation. Eat but don't overindulge... relations with your own spouse are ok, but not to the point of sexual addiction or lust... You are right regarding food. Eating food for pleasure is also a SIN in Gurmat, but eating different kinds of healthy food won't be that bad for your body as sex would be. Further, I have found on several sikh sources online that kaam is defined as 'uncontrolled sexual desire' not ALL sexual desire. Kaam is ALL types of sexual desire. Uncontrolled desire is refereed to as TARISHNA in Gurbani. Obviously, if a person does sex with his spouse for pleasure, then he is a victim of Kaam and therefore, all the Gurbani tuks having the word Kaam apply to him. If you start justifying sex for pleasure then some people can also start justifying masturbation. They can say that they do it in a controlled/moderated manner and do not over indulge in it. What will we do then? We cannot change our religion to comply with human weaknesses. Sikhism is great, but it is people like me who are weak. And what about when Guru Ji says: Bind Raakh jo Tariho Bhai, khusrey kion na paramghat payee ??? Also: Raag Aasaa, Pannaa 418 Some control their sexual energy and are known as celibates, but without the Guru's word, they are not saved and they wander in reincarnation II6II This seems to suggest that merely by avoiding sex, will not get you to God... seems to support sex with ones own spouse is fine, but do not let it control you. This tuk does not promote sex with your partner at all. This tuk implies that JUST by being celibate, you cannot achieve salvation as there are many more demons to conquer such as anger, attachment, ego, greed, etc. There is also a tuk in Gurbani which says that if by bathing, one could achieve salvation, then frogs would have attained it. Again, if we go by your way of interpretation, then one can say that not bathing is also fine in Sikhism, but it is not. According to Rehat, we are suppose to bath daily and also bath after excretion. Sister, I think you should go ahead and enjoy your married life. These sins such as eating for pleasure or having sex for pleasure with one's spouse are small sins which can be easily forgiven by Satguru jee. We should focus on bigger issues such as lust, anger, attachment, slander, libel, greed, EGO(biggest one), jealousy, hatred, mockery, racism, etc. The main thing we all should remember is NOT to justify our weaknesses by using Gurbani. Like for example, if a person has a bad habit of doing drugs, he should not justify it by using Gurbani, rather he should admit it as his weakness and try to resolve it. Bhul Chuk Maaf. Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa Waheguru jee kee Fateh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) paapiman, you keep saying that 'sex' is bad for the body? Can you show some scientific evidence for this? Because I can show scientific evidence for the opposite. Evidence shows that the physical pleasure of sex is only a small part of the benefit. There is evidence which suggests that regularly, it helps the body's immune system, lowers blood pressure, burns calories, lowers heart attack risk, lessens chronic pain, and actually helps prevention of prostate cancer in men and breast cancer in women. It also releases stress, and improves sleep. In addition to the physical health benefits, the hormones produced actually help the couple bond emotionally as husband and wife. Can you imagine being married but having no relations with your spouse how would that marriage really be? You'd be living as (ok you said brother / sister instead of friends - word play semantics). If we were as you said at that top level of Sikhi where we block sex from our marriage because we are not having children or done having children... what would that do the 'blissful union' that couple undertook? I think there is deeper meaning to this. Many spiritual paths explain an actual energy transfer happening between a couple during sex. This is not on a physical level but on a spiritual level. It's why multiple partners is not a good thing. All that energy transfer of different people, and the people they were with can become confusing. I truly believe there is something to this... because we all know the base level of everything is ONE. One energy field... ONE universal consciousness. This physical world really IS an illusion because as we peer deeper into quantum level we see the particles at some point disappear. And all that's left is one underlying energy field. Out of this field everything - ALL form arises. So our true nature is that spiritual energy. So when two beings couple, they are sharing that energy on a spiritual level... even beyond quantum level. This energy has also been referred to as 'pure light' so the verse where it says husband and wife are not those who merely sit together but become ONE light in two bodies.... to me that has a deeper level of truth. Blissful union because it happens at that base level of existence. This is something way beyond the physical. When two Sikhs get married, it's not only to produce physical children, but to rectify two halves of a whole, and become ONE in their journey spiritually toward the same end goal. A sister / brother relationship can not possibly ever compare. This is why I interpret it much differently than you. And also explains the verse where it says if being celebit were the key, then eunichs should have secured heaven. Sex with those who are not your spouse, is forbidden. And it's bad spiritually... at that energy level. Sex with your spouse however, strengthens that spiritual bond between husband and wife to truly become ONE soul in two bodies at the base level of all existence. The fact that there is physical pleasure is a side effect of biology. I believe the true message is to not become addicted to the physical aspects of it, become a sex addict, have sex with tons of people... because by focusing on ONLY the physical aspect of it, you will miss out on that spiritual deep connection. YOU are the only one hurt by this. But with that ONE person you vowed to spend your life with in front of Guru Ji, working towards merging back with Creator together on the same journey as ONE... this is a gift. Sex is not merely just a physical tool for procreation only. You can chose to believe however you want, but rather than listen to other's opinions of Gurbani, I read it myself and look at the whole picture. Many things are not written word for word... they are intertwined with allegory and metaphor. I see many descriptions of celestial vibrations, anhad naad, light / cosmic sounds in Gurbani. Consciusness and matter being intertwined.... It all comes down to one thing... vibration is frequency. All of these things are vibration or frequency in ONE medium.... In and of them self they are nothing.... they require a medium, and that medium is pure consciousness. And there is only ONE consciousness in existence. So sex for a married Sikh couple can bring them closer as ONE jot in two bodies, which will help them in their journey toward merging back with Creator. Edited April 8, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Very good book on healthy spiritual marriage -sex and divine by female saint. She is mystic she has both leaning on Sikh nirmala traditions and Hindu advaita vedantic traditionshttp://www.gurumaa.com/store/healthy-relationships-marriage-sex-transcending-indulgence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Please see informative article on Sex and Sikhism by Sardar Kapur Singh: Sex And Sikhism Article By Sirdar Kapur Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Lets see what Guru Ji says about sexual desire. Please provide better translation/interpretations if you dont agree. It was quite awakening for me as I was looking at them, i feel humbled and ashamed. ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਤਨਿ ਵਸਹਿ ਚੰਡਾਲ ॥ Unfulfilled sexual desire and unresolved anger dwell in my body, like the outcasts who cremate the dead. ਉਛਲਿਆ ਕਾਮੁ ਕਾਲ ਮਤਿ ਲਾਗੀ ਤਉ ਆਨਿ ਸਕਤਿ ਗਲਿ ਬਾਂਧਿਆ ॥੨॥ You are overflowing with sexual desire, and your intellect is stained with darkness; you are held in the grip of Shakti's power. ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਪਸਰਿਆ ਸੰਸਾਰੇ ਆਇ ਜਾਇ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਣਿਆ Sexual desire and anger are diffused throughout the universe. Coming and going, people suffer in pain. ਛਿਵੈ ਕਾਮੁ ਨ ਪੁਛੈ ਜਾਤਿ ॥ sixth, in his sexual desire, he does not respect social customs. ਤਜਿ ਕਾਮੁ ਕਾਮਿਨੀ ਮੋਹੁ ਤਜੈ ਤਾ ਅੰਜਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ Renounce sexual desire and promiscuity, and give up emotional attachment. Only then shall you obtain the Immaculate Lord amidst the darkness of the world. ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਜੀਅ ਮਹਿ ਚੋਟ ॥ Sexual desire and anger are the wounds of the soul. ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਦੁਰਜਨ ਕੀ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਅਹਿਨਿਸਿ ਭਾਗਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Sexual desire, anger and the company of evil people - run away from them, day and night. ||1||Pause|| ਕਾਮੁ ਚਿਤੈ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਹਿਤਕਾਰੀ ॥ The lover of women is obsessed with sex. ਅਧਕੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਵਿਆਪੈ ਕਾਮੁ ॥ only increase his desire; he is engrossed in sexual desire. ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਮਦਿ ਬਿਆਪਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥ Engrossed in the intoxication of sexual desire and anger, people wander through reincarnation over and over again. ||2|| ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਸੇਜ ਸੁਖਾਲੀ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਮੋਹ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ॥ Cursed is that comfortable bed which lures one into the darkness of attachment to sexual desire. ਇਸਤਰੀ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਾਮਿ ਵਿਆਪੇ ਜੀਉ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀ ॥ Men and women are obsessed with sex; they do not know the Way of the Lord's Name. ਕਾਮਿ ਵਿਆਪੇ ਕੁਸੁਧ ਨਰ ਸੇ ਜੋਰਾ ਪੁਛਿ ਚਲਾ ॥ Those impure men are engrossed in sexual desire; they consult their women and walk accordingly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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