Practical Ways Of Avoiding Lust

[paapiman]

6 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

No where is it strongly implied that we avoid women, rather we control ourselves and know what we are dealing with. 

But, bro Celibate Singhs are told explicitly in a Rehatnama to stay away from women. The language of that line (in the Rehatnama) is a bit hilarious too.

"Run when you see a woman"....lol.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

But, bro Celibate Singhs are told explicitly in a Rehatnama to stay away from women. The language of that line (in the Rehatnama) is a bit hilarious too.

"Run when you see a woman"....lol.

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Veera I don't know why you keep putting these rahits on the level of Gurbani? Like we discussed before, they are interpretations by people of Sikhi. That's why they don't agree with each other all the time. Whilst they are absolutely fascinating and well worthy of our study and consideration, they still need to be properly contextualised.   I'd put CP over all of them in terms of aids to understanding relationships along a Sikhi perspective.

 

ਜੋਗੀ ਭੋਗੀ ਕਾਪੜੀ ਕਿਆ ਭਵਹਿ ਦਿਸੰਤਰ ॥ Why do the Yogis, the revelers, and the beggars wander in foreign lands?   ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਹੀ ਤਤੁ ਸਾਰੁ ਨਿਰੰਤਰ ॥੩॥ They do not understand the Word of the Guru's Shabad, and the essence of excellence within them. ||3||   ਪੰਡਿਤ ਪਾਧੇ ਜੋਇਸੀ ਨਿਤ ਪੜ੍ਹਹਿ ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ॥ The Pandits, the religious scholars, the teachers and astrologers, and those who endlessly read the Puraanas,   ਅੰਤਰਿ ਵਸਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਘਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਲੁਕਾਣਾ ॥੪॥ do not know what is within; God is hidden deep within them. ||4||   ਇਕਿ ਤਪਸੀ ਬਨ ਮਹਿ ਤਪੁ ਕਰਹਿ ਨਿਤ ਤੀਰਥ ਵਾਸਾ ॥ Some penitents perform penance in the forests, and some dwell forever at sacred shrines.   ਆਪੁ ਨ ਚੀਨਹਿ ਤਾਮਸੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਭਏ ਉਦਾਸਾ ॥੫॥ The unenlightened people do not understand themselves - why have they become renunciates? ||5||   ਇਕਿ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਜਤਨ ਕਰਿ ਰਾਖਦੇ ਸੇ ਜਤੀ ਕਹਾਵਹਿ ॥ Some control their sexual energy, and are known as celibates.   ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦ ਨ ਛੂਟਹੀ ਭ੍ਰਮਿ ਆਵਹਿ ਜਾਵਹਿ ॥੬॥ But without the Guru's Word, they are not saved, and they wander in reincarnation. ||6||   ਇਕਿ ਗਿਰਹੀ ਸੇਵਕ ਸਾਧਿਕਾ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਲਾਗੇ ॥ Some are householders, servants, and seekers, attached to the Guru's Teachings.   ਨਾਮੁ ਦਾਨੁ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁ ਜਾਗੇ ॥੭॥ They hold fast to the Naam, to charity, to cleansing and purification; they remain awake in devotion to the Lord. ||7||   ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਦਰੁ ਘਰੁ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਸੋ ਜਾਇ ਸਿਞਾਣੈ ॥ Through the Guru, the Gate of the Lord's Home is found, and that place is recognized.   ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਸਾਚੇ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨੈ ॥੮॥੧੪॥ | Nanak does not forget the Naam; his mind has surrendered to the True Lord. ||8||14||

 

 

[dalsingh101]

PS - That quote from Daya Singh rahit is about dharamsali Sikhs specifically. A higher level of expectation is obviously required for people in dharamsals/Gurdwaras. 

[dalsingh101]

28 minutes ago, paapiman said:

That's why we have people like you in the Panth bro. Daas will tell his son (if I have one), to go talk to uncle Dal about ladies...lol.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Lol!

Bro you need this knowledge too, to help you raise children in future, whether boys or girls. Or to even help guide other kids that are not your own, like being a chacha or mamaa. 

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

PS - That quote from Daya Singh rahit is about dharamsali Sikhs specifically. A higher level of expectation is obviously required for people in dharamsals/Gurdwaras. 

The one from Bhai Chaupa Singh Rehatnama is for Dharamsaliye Sikhs.

The one from Bhai Daya Singh Rehatnama is for ordinary Celibate Sikhs. 

But, anyways, you are right that the level of expectation must be high for people (Granthis, Ragis, etc) in Gurudwaras.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

@dalsingh101 - Other thing bro, aren't many Sikhs (especially Amritdharis) having problems in finding a suitable partner nowadays? I know of at least three people (2 females and one male), who are struggling to find a partner for marriage. How is the situation in the UK?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

9 minutes ago, paapiman said:

@dalsingh101 - Other thing bro, aren't many Sikhs (especially Amritdharis) having problems in finding a suitable partner nowadays? I know of at least three people (2 females and one male), who are struggling to find a partner for marriage. How is the situation in the UK?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

If you're good looking, and family has money and your personality isn't completely f**ked - no problems. 

I think a lot of the causes of what you talk about above are what we've been talking about in the thread. Lack of healthy socialisation. Excessive rigidity with keeping people apart. Unrealistic expectations of partners, extended family politics. Like I said, I think looks, status and personality are determinate factors.  

 

It's common for parents to restrict interaction between genders and then when the child is an adult, censor them for not having found a partner. Apnay 'sianay' can be pagal like that.     

[paapiman]

2 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

If you're good looking, and family has money

And what if you are not that good looking and the family belongs to lower middle class (but everything else is fine), how about that? 

Also, are there a lot of Sikh ladies, who don't want to marry Amrtidhari guys?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

3 minutes ago, paapiman said:

And what if you are not that good looking and the family belongs to lower middle class (but everything else is fine), how about that? 

Also, are there a lot of Sikh ladies, who don't want to marry Amrtidhari guys?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

You know what, I take the looks thing I said back a bit, I think confidence is even more important and attractive to females. So a good-looking timid guy gets trumped by an average looking confident and strong guy. Personality counts! And even being rich but boring as f**k can hinder you. 

Look, in terms of panth, we have a lot of variety, from a jutti who doesn't know much about her Sikh heritage and is into bhangra/giddha and make up, to a hardcore bibeki Amritdhari women. I think numerically there are more like the former than latter, obviously someone who isn't into the type of discipline required of Amritdharis, is going to struggle with a partner like that, and it's probably for the better they don't marry. 

[GurjantGnostic]

36 minutes ago, paapiman said:

@dalsingh101 - Other thing bro, aren't many Sikhs (especially Amritdharis) having problems in finding a suitable partner nowadays? I know of at least three people (2 females and one male), who are struggling to find a partner for marriage. How is the situation in the UK?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Mathematically that leaves just one female. I swear half the posts on this matter on ss are females saying the keep rehit and can't find a suitable suitor and all the males saying the exact same thing. Some days I just want to start matching up profile names and give them the good news. Y'all geetin hitched. Wooh eee!

Looks definitely register lower down on the female priority list than on the men's. 

Which I think gets men into trouble. 

My priority list these days is more like. 

Sharda for the Guru Sahiban and Khalsa Paanth. 

Kesh

Honesty 

Loyalty 

Work and weapons ethic

Rightous minded

Would make a good mother to her children or any child

Good temperment

Health consciousness and fitness 

Looks 

Money

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[paapiman]

1 minute ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Sharda for the Guru Sahiban and Khalsa Paanth. 

Kesh

Honesty 

Loyalty 

Work and weapons ethic

Rightous minded

Would make a good mother to her children or any child

Good temperment

Health consciousness and fitness 

Looks 

Money

Good list, but IMHO bro, try to have "Amazing Human being" as the first point.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[GurjantGnostic]

1 minute ago, paapiman said:

Good list, but IMHO bro, try to have "Amazing Human being" as the first point.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Problem is Mithias always seems like an Amazing Human Being, and your brain will gymnastic any girl you fall for into a an Amazing Human Being. 

That's why I'm sort of working and reworking that list. No Sharda, no Rehit, no Kesh, no Daya no chance. 

I've let my eye wander towards girls who were supposedly into cool things, spiritual things, were awesome people only to find ..nope...

It's Gursighni or nothing. Even then it's not going to be perfect. I don't see Manmukhs coming through. And if they do, ultimately how are they going to love, understand a Sikh or Shaheed or any problem facing the Paanth?

[Trimandeep Singh]

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

@dalsingh101 - Other thing bro, aren't many Sikhs (especially Amritdharis) having problems in finding a suitable partner nowadays? I know of at least three people (2 females and one male), who are struggling to find a partner for marriage. How is the situation in the UK?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Maybe this problem is increasing because sikhs and their families try to look for a suitable partner themselves rather than taking the help of senior gursikhs they know.

Amritdhari Sikhs who don't have spiritually inclined families should especially take the help of a senior gursikh only, preferably such a gursikh who is rehitvaan and goes into sangat regularly.

Trimandeep Singh 

[GurjantGnostic]

5 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Maybe this problem is increasing because sikhs and their families try to look for a suitable partner themselves rather than taking the help of senior gursikhs they know.

Amritdhari Sikhs who don't have spiritually inclined families should especially take the help of a senior gursikh only, preferably such a gursikh who is rehitvaan and goes into sangat regularly.

Trimandeep Singh 

Mentally, the match making seems too much like dating to me, the way it's done. 

Instead of having Sangat do it, like you said. 

[paapiman]

14 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I've let my eye wander towards girls who were supposedly into cool things, spiritual things, were awesome people only to find ..nope...

Can you please share some examples bro? It might be helpful to people, who are looking for a wife.

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[GurjantGnostic]

10 hours ago, paapiman said:

Can you please share some examples bro? It might be helpful to people, who are looking for a wife.

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I will bro. But I just cracked my phone and typing with the s pen is really slow. I'll leave this tab open and come back to it. 

[GurjantGnostic]

I'll definitely get back to this in the next few days. Spoiler alert. Anand Karaj is the answer. 

[GurjantGnostic]

On 8/9/2021 at 7:58 AM, Trimandeep Singh said:

Maybe this problem is increasing because sikhs and their families try to look for a suitable partner themselves rather than taking the help of senior gursikhs they know.

Amritdhari Sikhs who don't have spiritually inclined families should especially take the help of a senior gursikh only, preferably such a gursikh who is rehitvaan and goes into sangat regularly.

Trimandeep Singh 

100. Not only is Anand Karaj the answer, but having the Sangat align, dare one say arrange and trigger the ignorant, align a couple properly, based on certain criteria expressed by the individuals tempered by the wisdom of the Sangat. 

[dalsingh101]

7 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

100. Not only is Anand Karaj the answer, but having the Sangat align, dare one say arrange and trigger the ignorant, align a couple properly, based on certain criteria expressed by the individuals tempered by the wisdom of the Sangat. 

I have to throw this in:

There is sant Gurdwara near my ends (Karamsar), the head of that Gurdwara pretty much arranged and blessed the marriage of a sister of a good (now deceased) pal of mine. They said it was written.

Fast forward a year: The girl moved into the in laws house, her relationship with her MIL became so bitter, they divorced. And the father don't see the kid. 

I've seen a few marriages arranged by sangat not work out basically, but that being said, statistically they work out much higher than the western model.  

[loveskirtanboy]

WJKK WJKF

2 great Basic Of Sikhi video on Kaam

 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

I have to throw this in:

There is sant Gurdwara near my ends (Karamsar), the head of that Gurdwara pretty much arranged and blessed the marriage of a sister of a good (now deceased) pal of mine. They said it was written.

Fast forward a year: The girl moved into the in laws house, her relationship with her MIL became so bitter, they divorced. And the father don't see the kid. 

I've seen a few marriages arranged by sangat not work out basically, but that being said, statistically they work out much higher than the western model.  

Amen bro. Nothing is a guarantee. I think it's the best shot one has, and the most blessed even when it fails. 

I think living seperated like we are is a huge factor. It's harder to act out in front your whole clan. Much easier to stress, fight, and fail alone. 

 

[sevak]

On 5/8/2015 at 7:58 AM, paapiman said:

Quote

 

I remember reading about 7 methods of avoiding Kaam which were really practical, and it wouldn't take a "high avastha" to abide by.

 

Unquote

 

A pathan filled with loads of ugly Kaam visited Baba Karam Singh Hoti Mardan. He was lusting after every woman in town. He was advised to do Simran at Amrit vela. This solved the problem. 

[Lucky]

from previous,

Quote

Kaam is a huge hindrance for any spiritual progress.  I disagree that you should distract yourself or avoid situations such as avoiding places where opposite sex may be or using cop-out excuses to avoid temptation. Because you are just SUPPRESSING the same energy

recent comment.

On 8/4/2021 at 8:51 PM, sevak said:

Kaam cannot be underestimated and it is actually ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ maya jaal. It should not be tested. A sincere jigasu better avoid those tricky, slippery situations. 
 

I still disagree. Show me in gurbani where this is mentioned? In fact, if you look carefully it tells you to NOT hide from anything in maya. but float like a lotus above the muddy waters of maya ocean.(sidh ghosht) 

What difference is there in a yogi becoming ascetic to hide away from physical maya  in comparison to your suggestion of avoiding(hiding) from places where females may be in multiple numbers?

Charitrophakhyiian actually teaches you how to shape your mind and psyche to deal with situations where mind can get lured into the tricks and temptations of females.

[Lucky]

On 8/7/2021 at 9:19 PM, apna said:

That perception needs to change ..meaning

 "must avoid places, where plenty of beautiful (and amazing) ladies are around."  is your perception. This is your problem with kaam.

How about if the same kinda "beautiful and amazing lady' comes around seeking help and advice for sikhi to you. How do you react?  you avoid?  

to think that "avoiding places is the answer for controlling kaam, then you've got the wrong understanding and no control over your own kaam.  Someone who had control should freely be able to go to beach, pool, bowling, etc....because in these same places beautiful women will be present. how about the bus? transit? what you gonna do?  

Read some of the other gurmukhs earlier posts carefully and you'll see that it's all about controlling you inner-self and fighting your inner kaam demons when out anywhere in the maya world

Well said.  I'm pleased that you read the earlier posts about how to spiritually over-ride kaam rather than trying to run away from where women may be hanging about.

[sevak]

8 hours ago, Lucky said:

Well said.  I'm pleased that you read the earlier posts about how to spiritually over-ride kaam rather than trying to run away from where women may be hanging about.