How is Moolmantar Jaap different from Waheguru Simran ?

[Ragmaala]

I have had this question for a while.

How much is Moolmantar Jaap different from Simran ? Does it also go into auto-made as simran does for some people? Has anyone experienced the same stillness with it that they do with Waheguru Simran ?

I have always been more attracted towards the Moolmantar Jaap than Waheguru simran, but then a doubt always arise if I should rather be focusing on Simran, and improving it.

Please discuss !

Thanks :)

[Guest]

The way i look at it is essence meaning of simran is truth remembrance whether its mool mantar or Vahiguru mantar. There is no easy answer to this as different people would drawn to mool mantar or vahiguru mantar or even both. Ultimately, It's not so much what you recitting mool mantar vs vahiguru mantar but the actual feeling of seeker behind it if seeker is contemplating on them with oneness or not because both mantars are purely advait - non dualistic their essence is of-advait absolute non dual reality.

Another way to look at this is vahiguru (wow pure awareness) gurmantar is beyond expression or attributes ( lakhan-characteristics) of parbhram mentioned in mool mantar as vaha/vahi itself is beyond expression, beyond formation of words, attributes as "vahi" guru is more towards feeling of  bliss/vismaad ecstasy beyond words, beyond dyan on attributes of parbhram as mool mantar, the comparison of ikongkar (bij mantar) and vahiguru would be little bit more comparable as conventionally mantar is known as only one word. 

So experiment between mool mantar, ikongkar(bij mantar) and vahiguru(gurmantar), whatever works for you, as beginner longer mantar helps concentrate better or also reduce intensity. 

As per gyani thakur singh ji ikongkar - ik reinforces non dual reality- one in all, all in one, ong- one expressing itself kar- underlying substratum reality of all/everything - turiya- pure awareness.

 

 

[Sat1176]

There is a lot of gyan in mool mantar that can be reflected upon for contemplation, but I don't think you can call that meditiation. For meditation you need to only allow 1 persistent thought. Never the less if you do jap the mool mantar with full focus on the words it will aid you in achiving some level of mind stillness.

One could also use mool mantar if one was practising to increase the length of the swas both inhale and exhale. Saying 1 round of mool mantar will take longer the just saying waheguru. You would really have to stretch out waaaaaaahheeeeguuuuuuurruuuu to cover the same time span.

 

A single word mantar is better for meditation because it should be used as a single point of focus and one word will give your mind less chance to engage in other actions apart from just listening because you do not have to worry about what is the next word to repeat in sequence. It is a repitition of only one sound that you do with full attention.

A single word mantra can be easily synchronised with the breath and Wahe-Guru can be broken into two parts. First half Wahe for inhale and second part Guru for exhale.

The is a great example given in Sri Guru Granth Sahib about churning the milk to extract the butter. Once has to first know how in the olden days this was achived and what utensil was used.

Ang 728 by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Wash the vessel (body), sit down and anoint it with fragrance; then, go out and get the milk.

bhaaNdaa Dho-ay bais Dhoop dayvhu ta-o dooDhai ka-o jaavhu.

 

Add the rennet of clear consciousness to the milk of good deeds, and then, free of desire, let it curdle. 

doodh karam fun surat samaa-in ho-ay niraas jamaavahu.

   

Chant the Name of the One Lord.

japahu ta ayko naamaa.

 

Let your mind be the handles, and then churn it, without sleeping (it is said we are sleeping in the 3 gunas of maya which also constituate our thoughts. To focus on the name of the lord is said to be when we are awake).

ih man eetee haath karahu fun naytara-o need na aavai.

 

If you chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord ,with your tongue, then the curd will be churned. In this way, the Ambrosial Nectar is obtained. 

rasnaa naam japahu tab mathee-ai in biDh amrit paavhu.

 

Wash your mind in the pool of Truth, and let it be the vessel of the Lord; let this be your offering to please Him.

man sampat jit sat sar naavan bhaavan paatee taripat karay.

 

That humble servant who dedicates and offers his life, and who serves in this way, remains absorbed in his Lord and Master. 

poojaa paraan sayvak jay sayvay inH biDh saahib ravat rahai.

 

 

Watch the video to understand how the milk is being churned to extract the butter.

 

 

The left right pulling action the person is using which is equivalent to our inhale and exhaling breath. Add into the inhale/exhale the gurmantra wahe/guru. This could not easily be achived if mool mantar was being used.

 

Sas Giras simran jugti is explained very easily if you understand and relate it to the above video and lines.

Sit, focus the mind on the sound of your own voice as you say wahe on inhaling and guru on exhaling.

 

Edited July 4, 2015 by Sat1176

[Guest]

Surely Vahi guru can be used with breath and can be broken in two. However, dyan of mool mantar can also provide great spiritual awakening. The way i understood - moment dyan-dhyata dhai- gyan-gyata gye of seeker- collaspes into either vahiguru or mool mantar even for a moment can provide life changing satori expereince (quick glimpse of enligthenment where everything (body, breath, mind, sense of being) collapses to totality of existence-absolute truth) before thoughts or sense of being(breath, mind, sense of being) arises again.

[Sat1176]

Bro I am only stating what I understand from using both mantras as jaapa tools for stilling the mind.

I also really enjoyed just saying Ik Oaaaaaaaankaaaaar. I found that mantra really peaceful and soothing. I even found it easier to focus on that then waheguru gurmantar. It opened up to be a very deep nasal sound when said in a certain way. At the time I was reciting as part of a shabad I was jaaping some time ago. When doing intense japa reptitions you will come across certain words which draw you in more than others just by the way they pronounced and the vibrations they cause within you. Out of all the shabad I was given I used really slow down when saying Ik oankar but speed up with the rest of the words as if just going through the motions to say them. 

When it comes to gyan and vichar on words Bro, I'm way behind. In the unpar pindu category. I try not to over complicate and just keep it simple. We are told by our gurus to do jap of naam. I just want to know what is the most quickest and best way to do it then start walking. Leave the gyan to the gyanis and lecturers.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Sat1176

[Lucky]

lets not be getting the kachey into twists... We have to remember that the jap and gurmantar/mantar is just a technique to help get the "one-pointed awareness''

ਇਕ ਚਿਤਿ ਇਕ ਮਨਿ ਧਿਆਇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਲਾਇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਪਿਆਰੋ ॥
Ik cẖiṯ ik man ḏẖi▫ā▫e su▫āmī lā▫e parīṯ pi▫āro.
With my consciousness centered, and my mind one-pointed, I meditate on my Lord and Master, with love and affection

All about Ik chi-Ik mann

The one-pointed mind is the goal for any method that we use because this is what can take you to the states of sunn Samadhi.

The mind reaches samadhi when it attains a stage of one-pointed concentration, or absorption. Since mind and body are of one unity, if the mind reaches samadhi, the body will also attain sunn samadhi,.

With using gurmantar, moolmantar, or any other mantar like har har, ram......the mind should be internally listening to the mantra without adding any extra commentary to the sounds; the only sound experienced within jap,should be the sound of the mantar itself rather than any internal talking. There should be no second dialogue, and we should not impose any internal thought words of comprehension. In fact, ..in any jap, there should not be any internal dialogue--the mental realm within should remain quiet.

One-pointed concentration is what helps you get from the stage of just listening into the emptiness and bliss of the void.--->that's the only way the duar/door to Waheguru's sacha mahal will open.

Gurbani tells us about sowing the seeds and cultivating...and this is very important, because I think even his grace will only follow when one starts to cultivate.

 

Therefore, it doesn't matter what method of cultivation you use or what mantra, or if you use rosary, ring bells, play music, sing praises.......it's all about getting to that one-pointedness-->empty void->Samadhi.

However, Gurmat tells us to not get wound up in the cultivation techniques of whether to use rosary, to count your chants, mantars....but to focus on 'dhyiana' aspects of yoga schools,,, which is why it overlaps with bhakti yoga using mantar and breathing pranayama together.

Gurbani also tells us that our commodity is the Swaas....So it is the breath and one-pointed mind together that earns the wealth of naam.......With this in mind, I personally find it easier to merge breathing with gurmantar easier. But you can also do it with mool mantar providing you keep a joint pace with breath and mind jap.... speed up breathing->speed up moolmantar jap...OR slow down breath-->slow down moolmantar...........The idea is to keep the same number of breaths with cycles of moolmantar.

ps..I just tried moolmantar jap this morning and it went quite well once I had set my own breaths/mantar cycle rate! ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ragmaala]

Thanks! Some more queries:

If the jaap or Simran is done  according to give vidhi to fulfill a wish or remove a worldly obstacle, will it have the benefit of taking you inwards or increasing the meditativeness ?

Or does the Jaap or Simran has to be done without any worldly desire for specifically going inwards ?

 

[Lucky]

Good question and I believe this is where a lot of weight is actually held.

Personally, I feel that if you have a strategy of some sort that has some end factor or wish for worldly desire, then this can be or will be a spiritual hindrance.

A gurmukh assured me and was pretty certain that I made progress in my simran a little more rapidly because my intentions were purely out of love, without any worldly wishes or desires. It was for approaching the path with a strong belief that this was the purpose of my birth, life and the breaths that I take. Only the dhan (wealth of naam) of where my breaths are spent is what I shall leave this illusion with.

 

I know we have 'ardas'.. and people will argue ''what is ardas for then if I can't ask for peace, happiness,..job satisfaction, education..".....etc..

But then ask yourself "are you really walking in gurmat hukam or his bhana"?

I know it's difficult to answer and I can't tell anyone what to wish or not wish for either. ....and love can't be forced- so you can't really force yourself to delve into simran because you want to prove you have love for God. You either have the deepest love through realization or you don't....-can't be bought or forced.

He is antarjami and the inner-knower......My ardas is always for guidance, protection and shakti/power/energy in order to do his sift salah.

I strongly ask in every ardas for 'forgiveness'.- forgiveness, for mistakes I maybe aware of and those that I may not. Along with this, I also ardas for greater awareness, so that I am able to see my own faults in order to accept them. (you wold be surprised just how many faults of your own can come before your very eyes, years and years later)

It's the love that makes you walk in hukam and hukam is actually a stronger feeling of knowing you are walking in the Truth....  It's very difficult to explain this feeling of hukam............and because you know he is the antarjami, then you have more than enough faith that he will continually arrange the path in front of you. 24/7.. All he asks is that you try deal with daily battles of 5 dhoots.....do this, and he will take care of the rest and ensure you are fed and clothed.

Maya is the illusion, we should focus and direct our energies to the purest sat or truth within. ...in doing so the illusion will take care of itself.

That's my take on it... it may show ignorance and may not be the right one..... But that is what I feel at these moments of where I am in life. The future may well prove me wrong,

Edited July 5, 2015 by Lucky

[paapiman]

I have had this question for a while.

How much is Moolmantar Jaap different from Simran ? Does it also go into auto-made as simran does for some people? Has anyone experienced the same stillness with it that they do with Waheguru Simran ?

I have always been more attracted towards the Moolmantar Jaap than Waheguru simran, but then a doubt always arise if I should rather be focusing on Simran, and improving it.

Please discuss !

Thanks :)

​Mool mantar jaap or reading Gurbani or doing Kirtan, etc can also be classified as Simran.

The word simran is derived from a sanskrit word.

Quote

ਸੰ. स्मरण. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਚੇਤਾ. ਯਾਦਦਾਸ਼੍ਤ। (2) ਚਿੰਤਨ. ਸੋਚਣਾ. "ਹਰਿ ਪੇਖਨ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਤ ਮਨ ਮੇਰਾ" (ਗਉ ਮ ੫)। (3) ਇਸ੍ਟ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਅਥਵਾ ਗੁਣ ਮਨ ਦੀ ਵ੍ਰਿੱਤੀ ਏਕਾਗ੍ਰ ਕਰਕੇ ਯਾਦ ਕਰਨਾ. "ਜਸ੍ਯ ਸਿਮਰਣ ਰਿਦੰਤਰਹ". (ਸਹਸ ਮ ੫).

Unquote [1]

[1] - http://www.khojgurbani.org/worddetail/gurmukhi/ਸਿਮਰਣ

One of the meanings of the word Simran is "Sochna" (thinking). Therefore, whenever one is thinking about Satguru jee, it will classified as Simran.

Therefore, one must not only consider the jaap of Gurmantar, as Simran. Whichever jaap one finds interesting or enticing, one must keep doing it. One can also switch for a change. Sometimes, that might help

If one is interested in doing jaap of Mool mantar, Gurmantar and Gurbani, all together, Maharaaj has offered us a complete package.

Do jaap of a shabad using sampat bidhi. In this case, one will be doing all the three jaaps together.

Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj

Bhul chuk maaf

 

 

Edited July 5, 2015 by paapiman

[harsharan000]

Thanks! Some more queries:

If the jaap or Simran is done  according to give vidhi to fulfill a wish or remove a worldly obstacle, will it have the benefit of taking you inwards or increasing the meditativeness ?

Or does the Jaap or Simran has to be done without any worldly desire for specifically going inwards ?

 

​Brother Ragmala,

His Simran sholud be done exculsively to meet Him. Wishing for anything else apart from Him, is done by the mind, not by the soul.

And because of that, we get entangled in karams, and thus our soul is dragged into the wheel of 84.

We have read: Jevaad Aap, tevad Teree daat.

So what is that His great daat as Himself? Means, He gives us Himself entirely. He is a bountiful merciful giver, and our well wisher also.

So He can never ever give us any such thing to bind us in the creation.  And about the so called wishes or desires you mention, you see,  through His Simran, all of them get dissolved, howsoever low our intentions maybe.

Does not the Bani say: Naam japat, trishna sabh bujee hae.  You see, Naam simran, is a powerful purifier cleanser,which if applied on us, will remove all our impuritiues, of which we may not be aware even, but guaranteed, we shall be pure enough to merge in Him.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

 

[paapiman]

Thanks! Some more queries:

If the jaap or Simran is done  according to give vidhi to fulfill a wish or remove a worldly obstacle, will it have the benefit of taking you inwards or increasing the meditativeness ?

Or does the Jaap or Simran has to be done without any worldly desire for specifically going inwards ?

 

​The more Nishkaam (desire-less) one is, while doing Simran, the more benefits, one acquires from reading Gurbani.

Now, a worldly person like me, is full of desires. Satguru jee gives solution to this problem.

ਸਿਮਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਦਾਤਾਰੁ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਪੂਰਿਆ ॥

Meditating, meditating in remembrance of the Great Giver, one's heart's desires are fulfilled.

ਇਛ ਪੁੰਨੀ ਮਨਿ ਆਸ ਗਏ ਵਿਸੂਰਿਆ ॥

The hopes and desires of the mind are realized, and sorrows are forgotten.

 

ਆਸਾ ਮਨਸਾ ਮੋਹਣੀ ਗੁਰਿ ਠਾਕੀ ਸਚੁ ਬੋਲੁ ॥

The enticements of hope and desire are quieted by the Guru, whose Word is True.
 

ਆਸਾ ਕਰਤਾ ਜਗੁ ਮੁਆ ਆਸਾ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

Building up its hopes, the world dies, but its hopes do not die or depart.

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਸਾ ਪੂਰੀਆ ਸਚੇ ਸਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥੧॥

O Nanak, hopes are fulfilled only by attaching one's consciousness to the True Lord. ||1||

 

ਆਸਾ ਆਸ ਕਰੇ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥

Everyone lives, hoping in hope.

ਹੁਕਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਨਿਰਾਸਾ ਹੋਈ ॥

Understanding His Command, one becomes free of desire.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[paapiman]

Thanks! Some more queries:

If the jaap or Simran is done  according to give vidhi to fulfill a wish or remove a worldly obstacle, will it have the benefit of taking you inwards or increasing the meditativeness ?

Or does the Jaap or Simran has to be done without any worldly desire for specifically going inwards ?

 

​Bro, listen to this (after 25.00 min) by Gyani Thakur Singh jee.

http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04-Katha/00-Katha Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/CD04(Ang0140-0202)/0310-Ang-0198-Pankti-06.mp3

Nishkaam Simran has a direct impact on the mind.

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

[Ragmaala]

Thanks all!

Thanks for the link, it was great .

[Ragmaala]

this video cleared lots of doubts for me . You can also get kirpa by doing loud japa of moolmantar with mala , and speed will increase over time which was my main concern. 

 

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh 

[GurjantGnostic]

On 7/3/2015 at 5:59 PM, Sat1176 said:

There is a lot of gyan in mool mantar that can be reflected upon for contemplation, but I don't think you can call that meditiation. For meditation you need to only allow 1 persistent thought. Never the less if you do jap the mool mantar with full focus on the words it will aid you in achiving some level of mind stillness.

One could also use mool mantar if one was practising to increase the length of the swas both inhale and exhale. Saying 1 round of mool mantar will take longer the just saying waheguru. You would really have to stretch out waaaaaaahheeeeguuuuuuurruuuu to cover the same time span.

 

A single word mantar is better for meditation because it should be used as a single point of focus and one word will give your mind less chance to engage in other actions apart from just listening because you do not have to worry about what is the next word to repeat in sequence. It is a repitition of only one sound that you do with full attention.

A single word mantra can be easily synchronised with the breath and Wahe-Guru can be broken into two parts. First half Wahe for inhale and second part Guru for exhale.

The is a great example given in Sri Guru Granth Sahib about churning the milk to extract the butter. Once has to first know how in the olden days this was achived and what utensil was used.

Ang 728 by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Wash the vessel (body), sit down and anoint it with fragrance; then, go out and get the milk.

bhaaNdaa Dho-ay bais Dhoop dayvhu ta-o dooDhai ka-o jaavhu.

 

Add the rennet of clear consciousness to the milk of good deeds, and then, free of desire, let it curdle. 

doodh karam fun surat samaa-in ho-ay niraas jamaavahu.

   

Chant the Name of the One Lord.

japahu ta ayko naamaa.

 

Let your mind be the handles, and then churn it, without sleeping (it is said we are sleeping in the 3 gunas of maya which also constituate our thoughts. To focus on the name of the lord is said to be when we are awake).

ih man eetee haath karahu fun naytara-o need na aavai.

 

If you chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord ,with your tongue, then the curd will be churned. In this way, the Ambrosial Nectar is obtained. 

rasnaa naam japahu tab mathee-ai in biDh amrit paavhu.

 

Wash your mind in the pool of Truth, and let it be the vessel of the Lord; let this be your offering to please Him.

man sampat jit sat sar naavan bhaavan paatee taripat karay.

 

That humble servant who dedicates and offers his life, and who serves in this way, remains absorbed in his Lord and Master. 

poojaa paraan sayvak jay sayvay inH biDh saahib ravat rahai.

 

 

Watch the video to understand how the milk is being churned to extract the butter.

 

 

The left right pulling action the person is using which is equivalent to our inhale and exhaling breath. Add into the inhale/exhale the gurmantra wahe/guru. This could not easily be achived if mool mantar was being used.

 

Sas Giras simran jugti is explained very easily if you understand and relate it to the above video and lines.

Sit, focus the mind on the sound of your own voice as you say wahe on inhaling and guru on exhaling.

 

Awesomeness