Mehma Parkash on the role of the Poets

[chatanga1]

As an exercise in translation,I have had a go at this text, part of Mehma Parkash that was discussed in the forum recently. I have been unable to copy the Gurmukhi text from the site as it doesn't allow it, but if anyone can these few verses here I would be grateful.

 

http://punjabipedia.org/topic.aspx?txt=ਬਵੰਜਾ/ਬਾਵਨ ਕਵੀ

 

Have a look and offer any corrections:

 

Dohra:

To reveal the knowledge of the Vedas was the desire of the merciful mind

A grand Gathering of scholars was to be called and it was explained 1.

Chaupai:

The merciful true Guru gave the command

Search for the learned scholars

Whoever has acquired the knowledge

Bring them with their Puranas here 2.

The Sikhs went to various countries

Bringing the scholars and their Puranas

From  Benaras and all places of knowledge

The scholars of outstanding knowledge 3.

They all gathered in the court

And the True Guru treated them with courtesy/respect

Line missing from text

Line missing from text

...Calling a writer of Gurmukhi script close

And revealed to them the purpose

Speak the verses and this Bhai will write in Gurmukhi

O Holy men explain to me the story 5.

Dohra:

The poets Nannua Bairagi, Shyam Brahm Bhat were present

Along with Nichal Fakir, a man of great intellect. 6.

Chaupai:

There is no place where your names are not known

Explain all the essences of your texts

The four Vedas and ten Puranas

And the six shastras and the simartis 7.

The 24 Avtars was told

The 404 characters were told in a new form

The story was told and everyone listened

The True Guru was pleased on listening 8.

The story was all told in Sanskrit

And collected in the Ocean of Knowledge (Vidya Granth)

The Ocean of Knowledge was completed

There was no end to this glory  9.

The True Guru spoke from his holy mouth

I have created (spoken) these words for the ease of the reader

Reading Sanskrit the mind makes mistakes (struggles)

Read my words with affection 10.

 

It seems to me that Guru Ji had the poets explain the various texts and them gave them a new form in Brij. Sanskrit wouldnt have been understood by most of the those people at that time, and Guru Ji gave these teachings an new form to make them more accessible.

 

Edited August 25, 2015 by chatanga1

[Singh123456777]

So what I get from this is that guru Ji wrote those Banis and got the poets to read them to guru Ji and guru Ji was pleased when they understood the bani.

[chatanga1]

Nope. The scholars read the stories in Sanskrit, Guru Ji gave them a new form in Brij and the Bhai wrote down the Guru's words.

[amardeep]

Good stuff. If someone has the full sakhi please scan, - would be interesting to see why the fourth line is missing!

Here is the 11th verse which everyone skips (the text on the page you translated from as well as the English summary that was provided by Sikhkhoj)

ਦੋਹਰਾ।

ਭਾਖਾ ਰਚੀ ਦਿਆਲ ਗੁਰ ਸਭ ਮਨ ਭਏ ਅਨੰਦ।

ਦੁਰਗਮ ਸੁਗਮ ਭਏ ਸਕਲ ਪੜਿ ਸਿਖਨ ਹੋਇ ਭੰਗ ।੧੧।

Translations in the Anandpur darbar took place in different ways. One was where the scholar himself sat and read the Sanskrit original while translating it to braj basha. Other translations were made by "non-Sanskrit" speaking scholars who had Pandits explain them the Sanskrit text whereafter they would versify them in braj basha.

The Persian translation of the Mahabharat was made in the same way: Hindu Pundits would explain the Sanskrit verses to Persian scholars in Akbars darbaar who then versified the meanings in Farsi.

 

 

[chatanga1]

Here is the 11th verse which everyone skips (the text on the page you translated from as well as the English summary that was provided by Sikhkhoj)

The summary provided by Sikhkhoj deliberately left out the important pieces of information. His post made it sound like the scholars were the writers of the text whereas they were only the narrators of the text in Sanskrit.

No wonder he wouldn't put the whole text up, even after you asked him Amardeep, and I'm glad I looked it up to see if I could find it on the net because sikhkhoj's post simply wasn't the whole truth.

This is the danger of having people with agendas on the forum. They deliberately misrepresent, and the onus falls on goats like me to bring the whole story. I wonder how his fanclub will take it. They loved every post of his. Like, like, like...

    ਦੋਹਰਾ।

ਭਾਖਾ ਰਚੀ ਦਿਆਲ ਗੁਰ ਸਭ ਮਨ ਭਏ ਅਨੰਦ।

ਦੁਰਗਮ ਸੁਗਮ ਭਏ ਸਕਲ ਪੜਿ ਸਿਖਨ ਹੋਇ ਭੰਗ ।੧੧।

Dohra:

The merciful Guru spoke the words and everybodys minds felt blissful

As the Sikhs read all felt the gloom turned to joy all round.

[Singh123456777]

Nope. The scholars read the stories in Sanskrit, Guru Ji gave them a new form in Brij and the Bhai wrote down the Guru's words.

Acha... Thanks for finding this awesome source that refutes sikhkoj's bullshit.

[dalsingh101]

Watch out! 

 

Brace yourself for robust allegations of being a 'pseudo-scholar' and whatnot if you have any opinion that diverges from sikhkhoj! lol

 

What I've learned in the last few months is that a person can spend years reading a ton of manuscripts for historical research and still be shockingly obnoxious. 

[Singh123456777]

 

What I've learned in the last few months is that a person can spend years reading a ton of manuscripts for historical research and still be shockingly obnoxious. 

True Dat

[amardeep]

Watch out! 

 

Brace yourself for robust allegations of being a 'pseudo-scholar' and whatnot if you have any opinion that diverges from sikhkhoj! lol

 

What I've learned in the last few months is that a person can spend years reading a ton of manuscripts for historical research and still be shockingly obnoxious. 

ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ।
ਇਹ ਵੇਦ ਕੋ ਗ੍ਯਾਨ ਸੁਜਾਨਨ ਕੇ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ਮਦਾਦਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ਵਿਨਾਸੇ ।
[Reading and understanding] scriptural knowledge the intelligent ones destroy their ego and evil tendencies.

ਪੁਨ ਕੇਚਿਤ ਨੀਚਨ ਕੋ ਵਹੁ ਬੋਧ ਮਦੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ਵਿਕਾਰ ਨਿਵਾਸੇ ।
However reading those same scriptures the foolish ones only enshrine ego and [other] vices within their heart.

ਜ੍ਯੋਂ ਦ੍ਰਿਗ ਭਾਨੁ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਉਲੂ ਅੰਧ ਕਰੰਤ ।27।
Just like the rising of the sun illuminates [the world], it can also blind the owl.

[dalsingh101]

ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ।
ਇਹ ਵੇਦ ਕੋ ਗ੍ਯਾਨ ਸੁਜਾਨਨ ਕੇ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ਮਦਾਦਿ ਵਿਕਾਰ ਵਿਨਾਸੇ ।
[Reading and understanding] scriptural knowledge the intelligent ones destroy their ego and evil tendencies.

ਪੁਨ ਕੇਚਿਤ ਨੀਚਨ ਕੋ ਵਹੁ ਬੋਧ ਮਦੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ਵਿਕਾਰ ਨਿਵਾਸੇ ।
However reading those same scriptures the foolish ones only enshrine ego and [other] vices within their heart.

ਜ੍ਯੋਂ ਦ੍ਰਿਗ ਭਾਨੁ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ਼ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਉਲੂ ਅੰਧ ਕਰੰਤ ।27।
Just like the rising of the sun illuminates [the world], it can also blind the owl.

Great post: can you give us a source?

[amardeep]

Its from the Sarukhtavali Granth written during the Maharaja Ranjit Singh era in late 1820s. It is a standard part of the Taksali and Sewa Panthi curriculum. It was written by a descendant of one of the Masands of Guru Amardas' time.

[dalsingh101]

Its from the Sarukhtavali Granth written during the Maharaja Ranjit Singh era in late 1820s. It is a standard part of the Taksali and Sewa Panthi curriculum. It was written by a descendant of one of the Masands of Guru Amardas' time.

NIce. It's important that we don't turn learning into a ego fueling activity. 

 

When I see younger people do it, it sort of isn't surprising; but when you see older people doing it, it's shocking. 

[amardeep]

The book is really facinating. It is divided into chapters each dealing with specific topics: What is a Guru? What is a Sikh? What is knowledge (Vidiya) and how can one study it? What is Dharam? What is Adharam? What is worship? etc etc.

 

Interestingly, the chapter on vidiya is the longest of all.

Edited August 24, 2015 by amardeep

[dalsingh101]

Is it available online?

[Kuttabanda2]

On 8/22/2015 at 4:16 AM, dalsingh101 said:

Watch out! 

 

Brace yourself for robust allegations of being a 'pseudo-scholar' and whatnot if you have any opinion that diverges from sikhkhoj! lol

 

What I've learned in the last few months is that a person can spend years reading a ton of manuscripts for historical research and still be shockingly obnoxious. 

That cunning rat hasn't replied to the questions and refutations I made in private messages. He also is fond of making up claims and "having connections" with Scholars while he fails to defend his stance. Once cornered, he changes it as he pleases. He's also quite good with double standards, twisting verses, and hypocrisy. Anything that doesn't agree with his mentality is unauthentic.  But what else could you expect from those who don't even have the brains to comprehend or understand the history and philosophy of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji? 

ਜੱਗਰ ਜੱਗਰ ਹੀ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ। ਮੱਤਹੀਨ ਦਾ ਕੋਈ ਇਲਾਜ ਨਹੀ।  

[chatanga1]

What about those that follow them blindly just because they have some ill-conceived ideas as well. I notice sikhkhojs fanclub aka satkiran hasn't posted any of her thoughts on this topic. She was soooo quick to back him up on his attempt to mislead us here on the same topic. Now we aren't getting a squeak out of her.

Edited August 25, 2015 by chatanga1

[amardeep]

Is it available online?

I dont think so, - i've never seen it online. I bought my copy in Amritsar last year.

It has interesting sections in the vidiya chapter ie. who is worthy of studying knowledge, who is unworthy etc. Many taksalis of UK love it.

 

Who is worthy of the higher study of knowledge?

Answer: ਦੋਹਰਾ॥ ਸੁਖੀ ਵਿਆਧੀ ਆਲਸੀ ਕੁਮਤਿ ਰਸਕ ਬਹੁ ਸੋਇ। ਤਿਹ ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨ ਸਾਸਤ੍ ਕੋ ਖਟ ਦੋਖੀ ਜਨੁ ਜੋਇ॥੪॥

1 - People who crave physical peace - it's too hot, it's too cold, living luxury e.t.c

2 - People who are always ill - Joint pains, flu's, fevers, head aches, various illnesses of body e.t.c

3 - People who are Lazy - Not getting up Amritwela. Not doing Sewa, not doing Nitnem properly e.t.c

4 - People who have a foolish mind - without respect, full of ego, never listens no matter how much they are told e.t.c

5 - People who indulge in worldly pleasures - Foods, drink, clothes, jewelry, cars, materialistic pleasures e.t.c

6 - People who sleep too much - always feeling sleepy, sleep day and night.

The person who has these 6 weaknesses, they cannot become learned in the higher studies of Religious Granths/Gurbani.

 

Question: What should a person undeserving of the study then do instead?

 

Answer: ਅਧਿਕਾਰ ਨਹਿ ਤਿਹ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ ਕੋ ਸੋ ਭਜੇ ਨਿਤ ਸ੍ੀ ਰਾਮ॥੫॥

Those who are not blessed to become learned in Religious Granths/Gurbani, they should spend their time reciting Gods name instead.

 

Edited August 25, 2015 by amardeep

[chatanga1]

Good stuff. If someone has the full sakhi please scan, - would be interesting to see why the fourth line is missing!

Amardeep PDL has Mehma Parkash :

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/mainpage.jsp?CategoryID=0&Searched=mehma&x=7&y=10

Will start having a look through it tomorrow to see if the missing lines can be revealed. Race Ya!

 

[chatanga1]

I dont think so, - i've never seen it online. I bought my copy in Amritsar last year.

Cool. I'm going to try and get a copy. Are english translations your work Amardeep? Do you know if the whole text has been translated?

[amardeep]

No I dont think it has been translated into English. The translations I posted was not by me but some I found online some months back and kept in my notes. But I can see they are english translations of the Punjabi translations from the Sewa Panthi teeka of Baba Surjit Singh ji Sewa Panthi.

[amardeep]

Amardeep PDL has Mehma Parkash :

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/mainpage.jsp?CategoryID=0&Searched=mehma&x=7&y=10

Will start having a look through it tomorrow to see if the missing lines can be revealed. Race Ya!

 

Cheers. I just found it on page 768 in the green second volume

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPageContent.jsp?ID=7131&page=382&CategoryID=1&Searched=W3GX

[chatanga1]

Bloody hell you were quick off the mark. I was still waiting for my dalia to cool down.

read upto page 770 for full information of this sakhi. Number 1 on page 770 is very informative.

[chatanga1]

ਦੋਹਰਾ।

ਭਾਖਾ ਰਚੀ ਦਿਆਲ ਗੁਰ ਸਭ ਮਨ ਭਏ ਅਨੰਦ।

ਦੁਰਗਮ ਸੁਗਮ ਭਏ ਸਕਲ ਪੜਿ ਸਿਖਨ ਹੋਇ ਭੰਗ ।੧੧।

Dohra:

The merciful Guru spoke the words and everybodys minds felt blissful

As the Sikhs read all felt the gloom turned to joy all round.

IN reading the tipni and hawale of Mehma Parkash the 2nd line should read as:

As the Sikhs read, the difficulty turned to ease. (meaning the Sikhs read the Brij with ease rather than the Sanskrit with difficulty).

[Singh123456777]

Amardeep veer Ji from which store in Amritsar did you get Sarukhtavali Granth?

[amardeep]

Just opposite the main entrance to the Golden Temple there are two book shops that sell thousands of books. Its the SIngh Brothers and Bhai Jeevan Singh Chattar Singh book shops from what i remember. The good thing is they can send books by parcel at a very reasonable price.