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Amrit, Duality, Pany-Payaras


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Hey I didnt do anything wrong! I just showed him how seeing menstruation like that he also has to consider what males go through too!  I already know Gurbani speaks against menstruation being seen as impure.  And that I realize its been him and not Sikhi that has been making me disheartened. (well him and others who have same thinking as him).  

It's not Sikhi I am doubting, just that group of Sikhs.  I will be fine now... I am following SRM and I will still advocate for equal treatment in Darbar Sahib etc. Hopefully someday justice will happen.  Don't get your kacheras in a knot. 

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4 minutes ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Hey I didnt do anything wrong! I just showed him how seeing menstruation like that he also has to consider what males go through too!  I already know Gurbani speaks against menstruation being seen as impure.  And that I realize its been him and not Sikhi that has been making me disheartened. (well him and others who have same thinking as him).  

It's not Sikhi I am doubting, just that group of Sikhs.  I will be fine now... I am following SRM and I will still advocate for equal treatment in Darbar Sahib etc. Hopefully someday justice will happen.  Don't get your kacheras in a knot. 

Don't worry, he will be okay. He just went to eat goat cheese and when back will be a happy happy Bapu ji :)

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24 minutes ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Hey I didnt do anything wrong! I just showed him how seeing menstruation like that he also has to consider what males go through too!  I already know Gurbani speaks against menstruation being seen as impure.  And that I realize its been him and not Sikhi that has been making me disheartened. (well him and others who have same thinking as him).  

It's not Sikhi I am doubting, just that group of Sikhs.  I will be fine now... I am following SRM and I will still advocate for equal treatment in Darbar Sahib etc. Hopefully someday justice will happen.  Don't get your kacheras in a knot. 

I am glad to hear that you have finally resolved some issues inside.  I am all up for sewa within Harmandir Sahib & Keertan at takhats. Go for it !

And didnt 5 pyaras also tell you to meditate for atleast 2.5 hours everyday lol I think you should also start doing that. Sorry, its not my place to say because I dont do nothing myself but bhagti will help answer more of your concerns & questions.

@GurpreetKaur Next thing we know , we hear news on PTC channel, a Bibi from Canada created riots at Darbar Sahib, trying to do sewa .  jus kiding

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9 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

I'm Mad that these topics still keep going on and you keep on adding more to it. Just chill bro.

Bro, Daas was having a discussion with Gurpreet Kaur jee. IMHO, we did not go overboard. We did not argue for days over it. She was asking good questions. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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45 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Bro, Daas was having a discussion with Gurpreet Kaur jee. IMHO, we did not go overboard. We did not argue for days over it. She was asking good questions. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

You don't see it but satkiran keeps on responding and then everything becomes huge and I think we went over this topic too much.

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12 hours ago, paapiman said:

Bro, Daas was having a discussion with Gurpreet Kaur jee. IMHO, we did not go overboard. We did not argue for days over it. She was asking good questions. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

We were fine, Bapu ji was having a bad day. Koi nah, he just dant us thora jeya lol.

Mixture of English naale punjabi makes sara kuch so thanda( cool) lol

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13 hours ago, paapiman said:

Daas has blocked Satkirin since last year. Why are you mad at me?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

So why is it ok for him to present one side but not ok for someone to present other side? Is only one side of things allowed to be presented? The side you like? I wasn't yelling or segueing. I was posting counter points to what he posted. This IS a discussion forum right? He may not be able to see it but what if people new here see his arguments only without the opposite? They will automatically think women are impure in Sikhi and that women can't be Panj pyaras because of some story about light not entering the women? Counter points should always be presented so someone new here will get both sides. and that Gurbani says opposite to what he is trying to say about women and the RM he is referring to and following is not the only one and is not followed by majority of Sikhs...and is not the one accepted by Akal Takht. So these things should be presented. And I am not yelling or getting frustrated.. Just want both sides to be visible to people reading this. It IS a discussion right???  

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mensuration is seen as physically unclean, yes.  but its not seen as spiritually 'impure' or a sign of inferirioty.

in formalised worship or religion, physical cleaniness is a requisite.  so mensurating woman are asked not to take part in them. 

however in personal bhakti (naam japa) in sikhism this is not the case.

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3 hours ago, Guest guest said:

mensuration is seen as physically unclean, yes.  but its not seen as spiritually 'impure' or a sign of inferirioty.

in formalised worship or religion, physical cleaniness is a requisite.  so mensurating woman are asked not to take part in them. 

however in personal bhakti (naam japa) in sikhism this is not the case.

Menstruation first of all is not 'dirty' and with modern hygiene products such that any "formalized worship" is no longer an issue.  With new hygiene products the blood remains INSIDE the body until the device is removed. It's like a cap that physically stops it from coming out of her body and can be worn for excess of 12 hours. This should certainly negate any chance of an accident form ever happening!  The device is called a diva cup. But other hygiene products like tampons are now so reliable that advertisements state swimming is ok with them and they still wont leak! 

Where the inferiority comes in is not direct - is that women would be passed over for position such as Granthi because several days a month she would not be able to do her duties as that position requires active duty every day dealing with SGGSJ. So now, its not a mere matter of women should stay away for a few days a month, but that women can also not have the position as Granthi which is seen as leadership position.  See what I mean? It snowballs... the end result is that women are pushed from leadership roles or roles that have any influence.  Think about it, if you had two people equally deserving for the position of granthi but one is female and because (you think) she is unable to do her duties a few days each month, so you automatically choose the man. Now do that over and over and women will never be in leadership roles. Your consolation is that they can still do personal bhakti. So you are essentially pushing women out of the formalized seva and worship, into only their own personal roles while putting men up as the leaders. Men = Public Life / Leaders and Women = Private Life / Followers. This certainly starts to sound a lot like inferiority doesn't it? 
But I think this is the larger picture and what the "naysayers" (thats my new term for them) are actually after.  Removing any chance of women being in any leadership roles in Sikhi.  Did you know there were women sent out as leaders in our Gurus time! One was in charge of all Kashmir!  

And besides Gurbani is very clear on condemning idea that menstruation being unclean, or pollution or impure:
Gurbani says Clean are not those who wash their bodies, clean are only those in whose mind the lord abides. 

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5 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said:

My question is people who crave leadership roles, how do they control their Ego?

Leadership roles should NEVER be given to those who just crave it!! They should have qualities of a leader! 

Leaders inspire those under them and develop them to also become future leaders. In military, my job as a leader is to develop my subordinates to also become leaders to do same role I am in down the road. That means imparting correct knowledge, showing them correct way to do things and empowering them to take the lead themselves. It means encouraging others to someday take your place. That's what leadership is supposed to be, not someone barking orders or wanting to be in the position just so people can go ooo ahhh look at the leader. 

My point is though, women who posses these qualities should not be overlooked simply because they are women. Make sense? And yes many leaders let it go to their head... just look what happened in Punjab recently! 

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Bhagat pooran Singh ji started from begging and cleaning people's feces while taking care of those not so blessed people. Over the time he became such a well known person that he was given Medals. My thinking is totally different than you, for me you don't demand leadership roles, you do your kirat and you will be rewarded then you have no big Ego. If a woman or man really want to serve, they can start from anywhere and what they have. All that leadership roles are an Ego trip and it will get us nowhere. Mother teresa said that when she clean people's feces, she's not disgusted since she sees God in everyone. Bhagat ji is a mother Teresa for India and had the same thinking. These are the type of leaders I want. Not who can't take no and start a war.

I thought the biggest reason you were fighting since there is not a single place where female panj peyarey are allowed and you told me yesterday that AKJ allow it so I am just thinking all that time you wasted on women right was not even necessary. 

Agree that no one should be overlooked based on their gender, but I have more respect for the woman  with high avastha who let it go since she realized all of this is trivial.

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1 hour ago, GurpreetKaur said:

My thinking is totally different than you, for me you don't demand leadership roles, you do your kirat and you will be rewarded then you have no big Ego.

 

No I am not demanding leadership roles. You are misunderstanding. There are plenty of women who are doing all the grunt work as it were but are never being rewarded while only the Singhs are. That's what I mean. These women are not demanding anything but they are still never being given role to act as a leader to inspire next generation. While some males are being given the role just because they are male. Why should women have to start at the bottom and do all the menial work (which I am not saying is wrong) while men get to go right to the top? 

Yes AKJ allow women Panj Pyaras and also so do many other Gurdwaras around the world who only go by Sikh Rehet Maryada. And Akal Takht is the one who says women are allowed. Its only certain groups who disallow women (and also see women as impure during menstruation etc) thus keeping them from even more participation. 

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Jeez, Satkiran. I'm just wondering if you do your husband's head in everyday, like you do ours?

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8 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Her husband is probably scared of her lol

Hee hee hee. There are geezers who like living like that. 

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41 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Her husband is probably scared of her lol

Why don't you ask him what he thinks? I can PM you his email address... 

By the way thats not very nice to say.  If you only knew the connection the two of us have...  there is no need for anyone to be scared of anyone, or control anyone. By the way there are LOTS of wives scared of their husbands... does the joke still hold then? Is it still funny then?? Or is it fine for wives to be scared of their husbands?? 

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