Amrit, Duality, Pany-Payaras

[CdnSikhGirl]

If you want to get technical every Sikh has originated from tenth master! Where do you think Sikhi spread from? Some obviously branched one way or another but ALL Sikhs come from the same origins!!! Who else would they come from?? Lol

There are differences even in the RMs you referenced. How can they all be directly from the tenth master? If so there would be no differences!

I think the closest we have to an actual RM from Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself would be his 52 Hukams. In fact if his 52 hukams are HIS own writing then why do we even need other RMs at all!? Why can't we all follow that?? 

Rest are interpretations only....individual rehetnamas have obvious personal opinion added and also culture influence and I bet virtually every single RM and rehetnama that existed is to some degree adulterated now from what it originally was.  Case in point DDTs own RM as it read at present states it was drafted in late 1980s. (1987 I think from memory). So it's definitely NOT the original rm of tenth master!!! How many times have the other ones been amended etc through the centuries??

Shouldnt this be why we should always hold any RM up to Gurbani and if it goes against Gurbani how can it be what Guru Ji intended? 

In case of what we were talking about there is nothing in Gurbani to say blood is impure or menstruation is impure or unclean. And idea of it being impure and ritual cleansing and purification etc are strongly condemned in Gurbani so how can a RM then say the opposite? It doesn't make sense. Seems to me somehow prevailing ideas (Hindu) of ritual impurity and women crept into the RMs. Otherwise if it was unclean or impure then certainly Gurbani would mention something so important as to cause Singhnis to miss a week of seva every month their entire adult lives??? If it was that important it would have SOME reference in Gurbani wouldn't it? Oh yes right it does!!! And what it says is that the idea that it's impure is condemned!! 

 

[Singh123456777]

Hey satkiran if you actually did your research you would find out that the ddt Maryada was written way before 1987.  

Satkiran you know your head from your ass about this type of stuff. Just stop now. You follow your version of sikhi and we will follow ours. Don't try to change us.

[CdnSikhGirl]

42 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Hey satkiran if you actually did your research you would find out that the ddt Maryada was written way before 1987.  

Satkiran you know your head from your ass about this type of stuff. Just stop now. You follow your version of sikhi and we will follow ours. Don't try to change us.

I did not say written I said amended and that's from damdamitaksal.org website where I saw that.

Also Apparently the older version did not have the patti Parmeshwar thing in there so that's evidence it has changed over time. 

[CdnSikhGirl]

What I find funny is that nobody is actually contesting the shabads I posted above. So anger is the only reaction you can do? How can any RM go against Gurbani?? Isn't that evidence that there's something up?? Anyway follow whatever one u want. Just like I am following the one I was given... Which was SRM. It's a free world. 

[samurai]

 technically the sikh (learner) of guru(dark  to light/agyan to gyan) existed from beginning of time..lol.. In terms of maryada the sampradas have direct link to the tenth master and tradition has been consistent in terms of do and donts. Its not just DDT but nihang maryada is same for maharaj seva regarding women. 

SGPC marayda allows amritdharis to eat jhatka meat, what are your thoughts on this?

SGPC maryada says only to recite min japji jaap and anand sahib, what are your thoghts on this. DDT and nihang (not too sure about nirmal and udasis) say to do min 5 bani in morning, what are your thoughts on this?

your not going to convince anyone that its ok for women to do maharaj seva while she is on period, but my personal opinion is if a women wants to then by all means she can as that is her karam but you would not be able to do it if you joined samprada. Your local gurdwara or home is a different story, it funny as some people got maharaj at home and wrap it up in a blanket and put it on top of their cupboard..lol..(my uncle does that.lol). So ultimately you are going to have to accept that sampradas do not allow women to do certain seva but that does not mean you can not do it, you are free to do what you want. Whether you agree or not is ultimately irrelevant. 

 Nirankar loves us all equally but differently.

Also regarding gurbani, it literally makes sense ,absolutely. But i can also pose a strong argument that one does not need to take external amrit but concentrate on the internal amrit based on writings in SGGSJ, so irrelevant. 

p.s im not angry at all.. its all good, we are all playng in the field of our karm..

[CdnSikhGirl]

Regarding meat it's been discussed before that Gurbani is not actually speaking against meat but of the hypocrisy of those who don't eat meat as a statement of holiness and the. Know nothing of spirituality. So Gurbani does not actually instruct to stay away from it. SRM follows this. 

Myself I am vegetarian but not for reason of RM  oh and I eat dairy and eggs. I just do t believe in factory farming and killing an animals whole life so I can have just one more meal. Doesn't seem like a fair trade to me...

And yes I will always use Gurbani as litmus test. Rules that exist that go against Gurbani are wrong IMO. 

im happy with following SRM and that's the majority anyway.  And Guru Ji did give right of panthic decisions which is how we got SRM. 

and majority of Sikhs don't even take Amrit at all so...

anyway wish u well... 

[Guest guest]

On 07/02/2016 at 7:54 PM, CdnSikhGirl said:

Menstruation first of all is not 'dirty' and with modern hygiene products such that any "formalized worship" is no longer an issue.  With new hygiene products the blood remains INSIDE the body until the device is removed. It's like a cap that physically stops it from coming out of her body and can be worn for excess of 12 hours. This should certainly negate any chance of an accident form ever happening!  The device is called a diva cup. But other hygiene products like tampons are now so reliable that advertisements state swimming is ok with them and they still wont leak! 

Where the inferiority comes in is not direct - is that women would be passed over for position such as Granthi because several days a month she would not be able to do her duties as that position requires active duty every day dealing with SGGSJ. So now, its not a mere matter of women should stay away for a few days a month, but that women can also not have the position as Granthi which is seen as leadership position.  See what I mean? It snowballs... the end result is that women are pushed from leadership roles or roles that have any influence.  Think about it, if you had two people equally deserving for the position of granthi but one is female and because (you think) she is unable to do her duties a few days each month, so you automatically choose the man. Now do that over and over and women will never be in leadership roles. Your consolation is that they can still do personal bhakti. So you are essentially pushing women out of the formalized seva and worship, into only their own personal roles while putting men up as the leaders. Men = Public Life / Leaders and Women = Private Life / Followers. This certainly starts to sound a lot like inferiority doesn't it? 
But I think this is the larger picture and what the "naysayers" (thats my new term for them) are actually after.  Removing any chance of women being in any leadership roles in Sikhi.  Did you know there were women sent out as leaders in our Gurus time! One was in charge of all Kashmir!  

And besides Gurbani is very clear on condemning idea that menstruation being unclean, or pollution or impure:
Gurbani says Clean are not those who wash their bodies, clean are only those in whose mind the lord abides. 

I did not say mesuration is 'dirty'.  I said its unclean. the word dirty has social connotations.  but i didnt even use it.  

menstrual fluid is a waste product (dead cells from the wombs lining) just like sweat, urine, faeces or dried blood are waste matter. I don't mean to be crude but, a mesurating woman still smells of dried blood, despite modern products. So just like a person who smells of sweat or urine would be asked to go wash, we cant say that of mensuration because it is a continuous process of some days.  And do you think that surpressing menstrual fluid within the body for 12 hours is somehow hygeniec? 

The idea that women are passed over as a role for Granthi because of mensuration is clearly nonesense, because someone else could take over her duties while she is mensurating. And where do you get the idea that Granthis have influence?  Do you even know what a Granthi does?  I don't think any Granthi would call their roles 'leadership'.  its more liek administration.

Personal bhakti isnt "a consolation", its everyone primary and only duty.  I think Gurpreet Kaur is right, you are just envious and looking for public leadership roles out of ego.  You seem to have a rather large chip on your shoulder. 

I see men doing every kind of seva that women do- cleaning, cooking, etc.  What country are you in?

Does it occur to you that other male candidates were also 'passed up' for all these roles?

[Guest guest]

On 07/02/2016 at 7:54 PM, CdnSikhGirl said:

Menstruation first of all is not 'dirty' and with modern hygiene products such that any "formalized worship" is no longer an issue.  With new hygiene products the blood remains INSIDE the body until the device is removed. It's like a cap that physically stops it from coming out of her body and can be worn for excess of 12 hours. This should certainly negate any chance of an accident form ever happening!  The device is called a diva cup. But other hygiene products like tampons are now so reliable that advertisements state swimming is ok with them and they still wont leak! 

Where the inferiority comes in is not direct - is that women would be passed over for position such as Granthi because several days a month she would not be able to do her duties as that position requires active duty every day dealing with SGGSJ. So now, its not a mere matter of women should stay away for a few days a month, but that women can also not have the position as Granthi which is seen as leadership position.  See what I mean? It snowballs... the end result is that women are pushed from leadership roles or roles that have any influence.  Think about it, if you had two people equally deserving for the position of granthi but one is female and because (you think) she is unable to do her duties a few days each month, so you automatically choose the man. Now do that over and over and women will never be in leadership roles. Your consolation is that they can still do personal bhakti. So you are essentially pushing women out of the formalized seva and worship, into only their own personal roles while putting men up as the leaders. Men = Public Life / Leaders and Women = Private Life / Followers. This certainly starts to sound a lot like inferiority doesn't it? 
But I think this is the larger picture and what the "naysayers" (thats my new term for them) are actually after.  Removing any chance of women being in any leadership roles in Sikhi.  Did you know there were women sent out as leaders in our Gurus time! One was in charge of all Kashmir!  

And besides Gurbani is very clear on condemning idea that menstruation being unclean, or pollution or impure:
Gurbani says Clean are not those who wash their bodies, clean are only those in whose mind the lord abides. 

hi i responded to this but it is not showing.  if this is a repost sorry to everyone.

i did not saw mensuration is 'dirty' (which has social connotations) i said it is unclean.  mensutrual fluid is a waste product, just like sweat, urine or dried blood.  it's dead cells from the wombs lining. you think spupressing a waste product in the body for 12 hours is hygienic?  also i dont know as a woman how you can be so clueless, but mensurating women give of a scent of dry blood (sorry to be crude).  again this does not make them 'dirty', but unlike someone who say smells of urine and can go wash it off, mensuration is an ongoing process for some days.  hence is a public situation, or in a place of formal worship (where we do not want the smell of urine or menstrual blood or any other boodily fluid) its consideration.  would you like to be trying to do paath beside someone who smells like urine, for example?

i never heard anyone refusing a woman Granthi duties because of mensuration, because she can just take a few days off and someone can cover for her.  what country are you in?  and does it not occur to you that men get snubbed for these positions all the time?

I don't know where you get the impresison that Granthi is a leadership role.  do you even know what a Granthi does?  leadership??? more like administration. 

Personal bhakti is not 'their consolation', its everyones actual aim and duty.  This is what the quote you give at the end of your diatribe refers to (keeping the Lord in your mind).  thirsting for leadership- be it a male or female- is actually just egotism.

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Just to let you know, yes its perfectly safe to wear menstrual cups for 12 hours. And its perfectly hygienic (being invented by a doctor!!!) 

Do what you want... none of it affects me anyway as nearly my entire adult life I have been on hormonal meds which stops cycles all together. Not for birth control (although they are birth control) but simply because being military and being at sea for long periods, its more convenient not to even have a cycle! Unless you are planning for a baby why even bother with menstruation at all!!??? So for me it never would have been an issue. I have not had a cycle since my teens and I am 40! There, there's the solution to rid women of all this uncleanliness!  Go on hormonal birth control unless actively planning for a baby! Then the SInghs won't think we are so unclean! 

What I am talking about is your (and several others views here) about uncleanliness etc are not actual "rules" in Sikhi (they are attitudes and opinion mostly from the Singhs) so they should not be touted as actual RULES when they are not. And Gurbani speaks against idea that menstruation is anything bad anyway.

You can try telling someone they are "not allowed" to do something and weather you are telling them they are "impure" or "unclean" doesn't matter because the issue is you are still excluding them for YOUR perceived ideas of what uncleanliness is! You want to talk smell??? The far worst smell I have smelled at the Gurdwara were men with body odour! Or how about people wear so much perfume or cologne they give you a headache? How about people with bad breath? 

Here is something member Sukrit Kaur said last time this subject came up: The Gurus were married... SGGSJ is NO different than the human Gurus right? Do you think the Gurus told their wives to stay away from them during this time?? Certainly they KNEW about menstruation since they also had children with their wives! And something so important as menstruation being a taboo for being around the Gurus / SGGSJ which IS GURU, certainly they would have written this somewhere in Gurbani!?? But the only things in Gurbani are actually speaking AGAINST such nonsense.  

I know I can't change your mind.. all you think is "gross" about women natural body functions and Singhs keep using it as a reason to discriminate such that some of the Bibis are starting to think they are gross themselves because they hear it so much from you guys! It's really sad!  Live how you want... but I think you are missing the point.  Waheguru Ji doesn't care about all this.  You can wash all you want, and will still be covered by MILLIONS of bacteria!!! Virtually EVERY human has eyelash mites, tiny particles of skin fall off constantly. And beards??? Beards were tested and found to be bacteria farms!!! And you are worried about a Bibi who might be menstruating and using proper hygiene products?? LOL

 

[Guest guest]

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Just to let you know, yes its perfectly safe to wear menstrual cups for 12 hours. And its perfectly hygienic (being invented by a doctor!!!) 

Do what you want... none of it affects me anyway as nearly my entire adult life I have been on hormonal meds which stops cycles all together. Not for birth control (although they are birth control) but simply because being military and being at sea for long periods, its more convenient not to even have a cycle! Unless you are planning for a baby why even bother with menstruation at all!!??? So for me it never would have been an issue. I have not had a cycle since my teens and I am 40! There, there's the solution to rid women of all this uncleanliness!  Go on hormonal birth control unless actively planning for a baby! Then the SInghs won't think we are so unclean! 

What I am talking about is your (and several others views here) about uncleanliness etc are not actual "rules" in Sikhi (they are attitudes and opinion mostly from the Singhs) so they should not be touted as actual RULES when they are not. And Gurbani speaks against idea that menstruation is anything bad anyway.

You can try telling someone they are "not allowed" to do something and weather you are telling them they are "impure" or "unclean" doesn't matter because the issue is you are still excluding them for YOUR perceived ideas of what uncleanliness is! You want to talk smell??? The far worst smell I have smelled at the Gurdwara were men with body odour! Or how about people wear so much perfume or cologne they give you a headache? How about people with bad breath? 

Here is something member Sukrit Kaur said last time this subject came up: The Gurus were married... SGGSJ is NO different than the human Gurus right? Do you think the Gurus told their wives to stay away from them during this time?? Certainly they KNEW about menstruation since they also had children with their wives! And something so important as menstruation being a taboo for being around the Gurus / SGGSJ which IS GURU, certainly they would have written this somewhere in Gurbani!?? But the only things in Gurbani are actually speaking AGAINST such nonsense.  

I know I can't change your mind.. all you think is "gross" about women natural body functions and Singhs keep using it as a reason to discriminate such that some of the Bibis are starting to think they are gross themselves because they hear it so much from you guys! It's really sad!  Live how you want... but I think you are missing the point.  Waheguru Ji doesn't care about all this.  You can wash all you want, and will still be covered by MILLIONS of bacteria!!! Virtually EVERY human has eyelash mites, tiny particles of skin fall off constantly. And beards??? Beards were tested and found to be bacteria farms!!! And you are worried about a Bibi who might be menstruating and using proper hygiene products?? LOL

 

wow such hypocrisy, been going on about mensuration when you yourself have been blocking your own, for monetary reasons.  however thanks for being honest for the sake of discussion (although you shouldnt feel you need to give personal info) ( and according to wikipedia menstrual cup was invented by an actress in the 30s). 

i don't know who said or suggested women themselves are impure or unclean, or even that mensuration itself is unclean but i certainly wouldn't.  I dont think you are understanding that we are only talking about in the context of public, formalised worship ceremonies.  no one is saying you can't approach SGGS etc.

To take Satkirins analogy, theres a difference between when and how you would approach Guru ji on a personal level and when he would be giving group prayers in a formal, public ceremony.  Even on a theological level, Guru is always with you anyway, even when you are not in presence of SGGS.  And genuine bhakts always approach him in their hearts anyway.

There is such a thing called decorum, based on common sense.  we're acually discussing the reasoning for this in public seva.  So I am not personally telling people what they can or cant do.  i think thats actually your intention.  again, i dont think you understand the whole idea of formaility and cleanliness. e.g. If I smell of sweat or urine or blood or anything else then isnt it public custom/consideration that I should wash before reading Paath for Sangat?  or conducting Anand Karaj for wedding ceremony? nor would i be offended if other people suggested that was the case.  this isnt rocket science. 

You make nasty comments about how others smell in Gurdwara, it just shows your hypocrisy.  So you sneer at how they smell, but they should be subjected to however you smell?  and i presume you are refering to members of sangat.  the people doing public formalised seva should wash and bathe first, definately.  and you didn't mention what country you are in.  If a male or female is doing paath in July in India I think I could forgive them for sweating, however they should bathe before hand yes.

your analogies fail through anyhow. by extension of your logic, if bacteria is everwhere then why do people both to wash at all?  why bother to wash hands?  why not just defecate and urinate in your clothes?

 

 

 

[chatanga1]

On 06/02/2016 at 7:25 PM, GurpreetKaur said:

If bodies are False, don't you think you are giving it too much importance when you want equal rights( which are not universal)?

The bodies are not false in the sense that they are not of use/worth. This is a fault in translation. The human body is not permanent, not false. Our bodies are all true at this moment in time, but they may not be true in the next moment. The enlightened one is still relying on english translation 18 years on, so try and understand where she is going wrong.

[chatanga1]

IMHO using science to prevent menses is as wrong as using science to inject animals with artificial steroids to make them produce more milk and meat.

Gurmat does not approve of family planning be they injections, or coils or condoms etc.

[chatanga1]

8 hours ago, Guest guest said:

Personal bhakti is not 'their consolation', its everyones actual aim and duty. 

Beautiful.

[CdnSikhGirl]

54 minutes ago, chatanga1 said:

IMHO using science to prevent menses is as wrong as using science to inject animals with artificial steroids to make them produce more milk and meat.

Gurmat does not approve of family planning be they injections, or coils or condoms etc.

And there you have it!  I guess women (should they get married) our only purpose is to be a breeding machine... pregnancy after pregnancy after pregnancy.  Since a woman's whole adult life from marriage to menopause would be filled with either pregnancy or breastfeeding, a career would be virtually impossible. (because I mean show me ANY male... Singh or not... who would stop having sex with their wife after one or two kids...  if you think you can Chatanga, you're very very wrong! Sex is a natural part of bonding between husband and wife, in itself can be a divine act. take it away and they may as well not be married. Show me ANY SINGH who would stop relations with his wife as soon as she is pregnant, and will stop having sex with his wife alltogether after they have the kid/s they want!! You will NEVER find one)  I'll leave it up to you to tell all the Sikh women in the world including @GurpreetKaur that they don't need any education because their "place" is stuck home barefoot and pregnant their whole adult lives. (btw Gurpreet bhenji is an engineer, maybe you can tell her she didn't need to get her engineering degree because if she gets married she'll be either pregnant or breast feeding for the next 20 years!)  btw Pregnancy is very very hard on the woman's body! It's not a walk in the park with nausea, swelling, incontinence etc.  and you want all women to perpetually be in this state! To produce so many kids that you can't afford to feed them all... while you get to leave the house all day and leave her to deal with a bunch of squabbling kids. Right... sounds like a great life for women! NOT! 

Secondly, please don't just say something is against Gurmat. Show actual reference in Gurbani where it actually says this! I have never seen anything! Also, Sikh Rehet Maryada does not say anything either!  And any rehetnama etc around at the time of the Gurus would not have said anything at all on the subject because birth control was not available then.  So inclusion in any RM is only recent (at least as recent as when birth control became available).   btw the Gurus KNEW sex was a normal part of human existence. They also knew that completely refraining is near impossible for ANY human as avoiding it actually creates lust! Moderation in a marriage prevents lust. And by the way, sex between husband and wife as an expression of love is not the same as lust.  

I believe Akal Takht cleared this a few years ago: Birth control to prevent pregnancy so you can have illicit sex outside marriage is not allowed. Birth control as family planning between husband and wife IS allowed. Look around you, most Sikh families have 1 or 2 kids... maybe a 3rd if they can afford it.  If no birth control were used at all, most families would have  LOT more than that!  And you'd never see any Sikh women outside the house let alone having careers. 

And yes, prevention of cycles is perfectly safe!!! Its been proven! Why go through a cycle if you don't plan on having children anyway? Lots of woman have pain etc during that time, and this stops it. You are saying they should just endure the pain? You should not even be commenting on it being a male. You will NEVER EVER know the burden placed on women. Waheguru gave us science.... hey getting older and having heart problems etc is natural too...  should we stop giving people high blood pressure medications etc too? 

[kdsingh80]

40 minutes ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

And there you have it!  I guess women (should they get married) our only purpose is to be a breeding machine... pregnancy after pregnancy after pregnancy.  Since a woman's whole adult life from marriage to menopause would be filled with either pregnancy or breastfeeding, a career would be virtually impossible. (because I mean show me ANY male... Singh or not... who would stop having sex with their wife after one or two kids...  if you think you can Chatanga, you're very very wrong! Sex is a natural part of bonding between husband and wife, in itself can be a divine act. take it away and they may as well not be married. Show me ANY SINGH who would stop relations with his wife as soon as she is pregnant, and will stop having sex with his wife alltogether after they have the kid/s they want!! You will NEVER find one)  I'll leave it up to you to tell all the Sikh women in the world including @GurpreetKaur that they don't need any education because their "place" is stuck home barefoot and pregnant their whole adult lives. (btw Gurpreet bhenji is an engineer, maybe you can tell her she didn't need to get her engineering degree because if she gets married she'll be either pregnant or breast feeding for the next 20 years!)  btw Pregnancy is very very hard on the woman's body! It's not a walk in the park with nausea, swelling, incontinence etc.  and you want all women to perpetually be in this state! To produce so many kids that you can't afford to feed them all... while you get to leave the house all day and leave her to deal with a bunch of squabbling kids. Right... sounds like a great life for women! NOT! 

Your anti men thinking is just amazing.There may be women that are willing to produce 5 kids but there are hardly any men who would want so many kids and then pay their expenses. men don't have trees where money grow.The society

As far men will not stop sex you just portray all men as sex hungry beasts. what if wife go ill after 2-3 year marriage. good men always be with their wife irrespective whether they can have sex with her or not

Quote

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/peoplesdaily/article-3325744/Touching-story-devoted-husband-84-taken-care-paralysed-wife-56-years.html

Everlasting love: Touching story of how a devoted husband, 84, has taken care of his paralysed wife for 56 YEARS

BTW I am not against using protection

[CdnSikhGirl]

9 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said:

Your anti men thinking is just amazing.There may be women that are willing to produce 5 kids but there are hardly any men who would want so many kids and then pay their expenses. men don't have trees where money grow.The society

THIS WAS MY POINT! (sarcasm) Most people can not afford that many children! And spouses will not just stop being close to each other because they have the few kids they can afford / want. I wasn't saying that either men OR women want that many children or can afford them! I was being sarcastic! But having only a few children doesn't mean that the husband and wife will be able to stop being close to one another! Sex is an expression of love between married couple. 

As far men will not stop sex you just portray all men as sex hungry beasts. what if wife go ill after 2-3 year marriage. good men always be with their wife irrespective whether they can have sex with her or not

This was not against the husband OR wife!  See your thinking is that sex=lust/bad, so you think I must be saying that because a husband would not want to stop having sex with his wife it must mean that I think he is a beast? Nope! Because I do NOT equate sex = lust. I equate sex for only physical pleasure outside marriage = lust. I consider sex between husband and wife to be a divine and sacred act that brings them closer and creates a bond. Big difference. Husband and wife who love each other will naturally want to express that love physically by being close. Just because they have their 1 or 2 children, you can't expect that a husband who loves his wife to not want to express that love physically right?? You have to stop thinking of sex as BAD! Misuse of sex is bad... but in setting of marriage it is closest we can get to mimicking 'merging' with another entity. And so, it can be a hugely divine act! Waheguru created sex, and if it were for only procreation, then spouses in love would not have a natural desire to be together, and every single time they coupled she would be pregnant. And then, once pregnant, there would be no more desire for coupling. But we know couples still do it when she is pregnant. Because it's an ACT OF LOVE!  Please stop thinking everything I say is anti-male! It's not!

BTW I am not against using protection

 

[Ragmaala]

I can really smell the stink...ewww

mods. Time to clean up

[chatanga1]

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

And there you have it!  I guess women (should they get married) our only purpose is to be a breeding machine...

 

Is it better for children to be born after Anand karaj for Sikhs or before? Gurmat does not allow for adult relationships before marriage, and wanting children is a natural desire for humans. Not that all humans will take it up, plenty don't but that's not to say they don't have a choice like you are saying.

"pregnancy after pregnancy after pregnancy..."

 

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

 Since a woman's whole adult life from marriage to menopause would be filled with either pregnancy or breastfeeding, a career would be virtually impossible.

That's a a very extreme example. I don't personally know any people who have been in that situation. I think again you are using extreme examples instead of rational thinking.

 

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Sex is a natural part of bonding between husband and wife, in itself can be a divine act. @GurpreetKaur

 

It is, but it is not an animalistic ritual, like you are portrayinig it.

 

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

I'll leave it up to you to tell all the Sikh women in the world including @GurpreetKaur that they don't need any education because their "place" is stuck home barefoot and pregnant their whole adult lives. (btw Gurpreet bhenji is an engineer, maybe you can tell her she didn't need to get her engineering degree because if she gets married she'll be either pregnant or breast feeding for the next 20 years!)

I don't need to tell any educated Sikh women anything. btw i don't care what Gurpreet Kaur is, it makes no difference to me.

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

 btw Pregnancy is very very hard on the woman's body! It's not a walk in the park with nausea, swelling, incontinence etc.  and you want all women to perpetually be in this state! To produce so many kids that you can't afford to feed them all... while you get to leave the house all day and leave her to deal with a bunch of squabbling kids. Right... sounds like a great life for women! NOT!

btw not all women experience this. Another example of your extreme views. btw, some women can work right up to the day before they actually begin to start labour. Why can't we use this example for all women? btw we we are not talking about affording to feed them. btw I'm sure that any man worth his salt would not be out the house all day leaving his wife to deal with squabbling kids. btw i'm sure he would actually be working.

 

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

Secondly, please don't just say something is against Gurmat. Show actual reference in Gurbani where it actually says this! I have never seen anything! Also, Sikh Rehet Maryada does not say anything either!  And any rehetnama etc around at the time of the Gurus would not have said anything at all on the subject because birth control was not available then.  So inclusion in any RM is only recent (at least as recent as when birth control became available).   btw the Gurus KNEW sex was a normal part of human existence. They also knew that completely refraining is near impossible for ANY human as avoiding it actually creates lust! Moderation in a marriage prevents lust. And by the way, sex between husband and wife as an expression of love is not the same as lust.  

I believe Akal Takht cleared this a few years ago: Birth control to prevent pregnancy so you can have illicit sex outside marriage is not allowed. Birth control as family planning between husband and wife IS allowed. Look around you, most Sikh families have 1 or 2 kids... maybe a 3rd if they can afford it.  If no birth control were used at all, most families would have  LOT more than that!  And you'd never see any Sikh women outside the house let alone having careers. 

Sri Akal Takht Sahib said that Sikhs should not be using birth control/family planning. It is against Sikh ethos. btw Gurmat tells us that we should not be prey to lust, even between husband and wife. Rather it should be controlled and used wisely. Gurbani also says "many times you were aborted in the womb" but it doesn't say this with a positive slant. The fact that most Sikhs have 1 or 2 children is neither here nor there as most families ignore injunction of Sri Akal Takht Sahib. btw careers for Sikh women is not the be all and end all of their existence. Actually.

 

1 hour ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

And yes, prevention of cycles is perfectly safe!!! Its been proven! Why go through a cycle if you don't plan on having children anyway? Lots of woman have pain etc during that time, and this stops it. You are saying they should just endure the pain? You should not even be commenting on it being a male. You will NEVER EVER know the burden placed on women. Waheguru gave us science.... hey getting older and having heart problems etc is natural too...  should we stop giving people high blood pressure medications etc too? 

btw no-one is talking about safety actually. stop moving from pillar to post. btw why not men just get castrated if they don't plan on having children? Why don't women get a hysterectomy if they don't want children? It's not natural actually and btw are you having any pain with your cycles? If you were and it was a doctors professional recommendation actually then btw I would agree on this individual case.

And there you have it. Comparing a part of a woman's natural cycle of life with someone who may/may not actually have a condition. btw how pathetic is that? Medical ailments are very different from lifestyle choices btw. Actually.

 

[Ragmaala]

^^^ lol ah man. I dunno what to say . Chatanga bro hats off to u man for such patience to keep responding.

lol @ btw 

[SAadmin]

4 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

^^^ lol ah man. I dunno what to say . Chatanga bro hats off to u man for such patience to keep responding.

lol @ btw 

Will clean up shortly, on a lighter note:

 

[Ragmaala]

2 hours ago, N30 S!NGH said:

Will clean up shortly, on a lighter note:

 

 

its ok veer ji, no clean up needed. Just end with a positive note.

here is another one:

[CdnSikhGirl]

Please note, I prefer bearded men - which is a given... but since weère on subject of cleanliness (I think beard bacteria is actually turning out to be worse than any issue with menstruation!)
 

"UPDATE (5/4/15, 3:28 p.m. ET): Turns out the beard bacteria situation is worse than we initially thought. ABC affiliate KOAT Action 7 News wanted more info on the topic, so they asked microbiologist John Golobic to swab and analyze beard hair from several willing participants.

The news report from last Thursday (April 30) reveals some of the beards contained bacteria “similar to those found in fecal matter.” Golobic told the news channel that if particles like these were present in our water, the water facility would have to be closed down and disinfected.:"  http://www.mtv.com/news/2106390/beard-study-germs-bacteria/

The blood from menstruation however, is essentially same as while in the body, until it comes out and is exposed to air é external bacteria. So internal protection renders the issue moot. Beards however... eeewwwwww.  Bacteria profiles the same as fecal matter??!! yucky! If you are concerned about cleanliness and uncleanliness while doing seva of SGGSJ, maybe all Singhs should refrain from it with those bacteria farms hovering over our Gurus pages! 

"Carol Walker, a consultant trichologist from the Birmingham Trichology Centre, said having facial hair can lead to more frequent skin infections and to germs being passed on to others. Beards harbour more germs because facial hair is courser than other hair, so traps dirt and germs more easily, she explained. She told MailOnline: 'Beard hair; it’s courser. It has the shape of a bayonet, a round, convexed bottom and then comes up the side to a point. ‘It becomes curly and smooth, it tends to have more bends and kinks which trap dirt. ‘The cuticles on the hair – which are like layers of tiles on a roof - trap the germs and grease ‘Hair around nostrils and mouth is well-placed to harbour bacteria. She added that people have a habit of over-handling their beards, meaning they can spread bacteria to their mouths. She said: ‘If their hands are dirty, they transfer dirt from their hands on to their face and mouths. ‘If someone eating dairy products it can get stuck in their beard and become a bit rancid. ‘There can be a lot of Stepholococci [a group of bacteria that can cause illness] if someone’s got a cold.’ She has noticed people developing skin conditions due to their facial hair. She said: ‘Some people get skin infections, caused if they have a lot of scale build up or eczema from the bacteria in their beard. ‘If someone has a cold, a runny nose it can trickle down and be trapped in the nose , mustache, beards hair. Food drink can dribble down too.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2991865/Are-beards-unhygienic-Facial-hair-riddled-bacteria-spread-germs-trigger-infections-experts-claim.html#ixzz3zmUJcl5e

[Ragmaala]

she is just findiing excuses to prove that mens beard is dirtier than menstruation.  I guess she likes hens menstrual waste so she likes womans menstruation too. She is just fishing for non-sense articles.

If you test non-hygienic dirty ass white mofos you are gonna get tatti all over the place.

They should test Singhs who shampoo and condition their beards everyday lol

Its just hilarious watching her trying to desperately prove her points, writing long ass essays to a single sentence , and no one here gives a two hoots about what she thinks lol

BIBI JI  calm down.

 

 

[Ragmaala]

A U.K. microbiologist tested the bacteria found in men’s facial hair and found that some of them had antimicrobial properties.

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

3 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

 is just findiing excuses to prove that mens beard is dirtier than menstruation.

Well.... they are!!! LOL Test bacteria in blood from menstruation (while still in the body), vs the average beard.  Which do you think will turn out to be dirtier??