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A very worrying and disturbing situation... need help


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So recently I went down and have been attending a weekly program/divaan (I will not mention the place, Gurdwara or any names of any person) after having heard many rumours and things about it, and have seen everything for my self.

 

There is loud waheguru jaap which I truly enjoy as to say it is a good experience, one that i cannot get anywhere else however there is some things I simply do not understand and leaves me heavy hearted and uncomfortable. During the loud simran i see many people experiencing these 'fits' where they apparently seem to be in some kind of state but are just shaking and rolling around violently while screaming and crying. Then the person who is leading the divan sometimes stands up and tries to explain the reasoning for this however i cant seem to grasp it. I dont know if hes just giving a wrong excuse for it or if i geniuenly cannot find the answer. He said Gurbani explains why people scream, cry and start shaking when do simran but i have never found this in Gurbani. Well at least why people start shaking, i can kinda understand the crying.

 

Here are the questions I want answered:

 

- Why do these fits happen? What does gurbani say about these:

 

- Why people scream?

- Why people cry?

- ANd why people start shaking and having these 'fits' when doing simran?

- Did the Guru Ji's go through these fits?

- Did anyone in Sikhi history go through these fits? Like Bhai Mardana Ji, Baba Budda Ji, Bhai Gurdas Ji, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur?

- Did any of todays or 21st centuries Sant Mahapurakhs experience these fits?

 

 

Seriously if someone shed some light on this it will clear a lot of things up for me, I dont want to have the thought in the back of my mind that I am going to this weekly program getting brainwashed by something that isn't even gurmat. I also want to know the reasoning behind these fits.... it doesnt even look like they are in any anand, it actually looks like they are experiencing an attack but i want to know what causes it. why does it happen to some people and not others. Is it a physical experience or spiritual experience. All this does not seem right to me in front of maharaj's hazoori.

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Here are the questions I want answered:

 

- Why do these fits happen? What does gurbani say about these:

 

- Why people scream?

- Why people cry?

- ANd why people start shaking and having these 'fits' when doing simran?

- Did the Guru Ji's go through these fits?

- Did anyone in Sikhi history go through these fits? Like Bhai Mardana Ji, Baba Budda Ji, Bhai Gurdas Ji, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur?

- Did any of todays or 21st centuries Sant Mahapurakhs experience these fits?

 

- Not sure if there is a direct explanation from gurbani. However, its process towards bairaag (which gurbani talks about) - feeling of separation and de-attachment, these things can come out. Because remember we are all made of our psychological self which has many good experiences and bad experiences, emotional trauma etc.

- People scream for various reasons - repressed emotions, feelings coming out, realising itself during simran 

- People cry for various reasons too for emotional trauma, feeling of separation, void, emptiness etc

- Body process either through intial trance or emotions coming out visibly

- Not sure if thats documented. However, there is historical reference sri guru tegh bahudar ji maharaj went totally de-attached from society meditated in secluded area for 8-10 years in bairaag/de-attachment from world and did bhagti of akaal purkh. Meditated on real self.

- Many do as suffering is number one cause for man kind to look for unchanging everlasting peace happiness/search for source of life and truth-God.

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I'm gonna talk from personal experience. I remember when I started to do simran and after some time my body just started to sway and shake. I don't know why it happened. Could have been my body just trying to keep beat with the simran? I still don't know but it felt nice. After doing more I sometimes spontaneously started to just cry. And not a like a little tear came out and I'm done but I was actually crying. Crying with joy and sometimes crying for how I'm a sinner and asking Akaal purkh to forgive me. All these things happened naturally to me. 

For all I know it could have been bad but it was a nice feeling.

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I 'm too talking from my personal experience.In beginning,I used to cry a lotttt.I dont know why it happens but it really happens of its own.Now,when I'm in divan or in sangat,then I somehow control myself.But when I'm doing simran alone at home,then sometime it goes too much.I cannot tell that how much I cry.

So what really makes me cry??

Well,I dunno much,as it happens of its own,but main things that come in my mind is my ignorance towards akal purkh.Real inner images comes right before my eyes.What I really am!! The Biggest Manmukh ever!! That days I've wasted without any naam kamai or without remembering akal purkh.Then,Mind speaks what I've earned?? Nothing yet! All pains or sorrows which are part of my life in any form are only because I'm seperated from supreme.Mind says that sukh/pleasure/bliss you are in search of, is only and only in meeting with supreme.Then Why are you crying? You're going to cry for your whole life,if you dont get a chance.Then Mind says No I've nothing for what I can be rewarded.Then crying becomes even more.The main reason is The thought of being skeptic.Mind says will I be saved? Will I  get a chance??

At same other time,mind says you're under guidance of SGGSJ ,at home of Guru Nanak Maharaj.Then mind says that day will certainly come.So that feeling (whether it's for few min) as If I've achieved that stage of union, asks mind to cry/shout as loud as possible in joy ,asks to say WAH!! Soul wants to experience this divine bliss,but when looks at herself,reminds that she is still alone,she is not with her purkh,then again starts crying.......But believe me after few days when you remember you were crying that you realise how tasteful was that!there is a bliss ,a unique taste in crying.And you want to cry again some other day,but that happens only when you're really realising your inner self.. 

 

 

 

 

 

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I 'm too talking from my personal experience.In beginning,I used to cry a lotttt.I dont know why it happens but it really happens of its own.Now,when I'm in divan or in sangat,then I somehow control myself.But when I'm doing simran alone at home,then sometime it goes too much.I cannot tell that how much I cry.

So what really makes me cry??

Well,I dunno much,as it happens of its own,but main things that come in my mind is my ignorance towards akal purkh.Real inner images comes right before my eyes.What I really am!! The Biggest Manmukh ever!! That days I've wasted without any naam kamai or without remembering akal purkh.Then,Mind speaks what I've earned?? Nothing yet! All pains or sorrows which are part of my life in any form are only because I'm seperated from supreme.Mind says that sukh/pleasure/bliss you are in search of, is only and only in meeting with supreme.Then Why are you crying? You're going to cry for your whole life,if you dont get a chance.Then Mind says No I've nothing for what I can be rewarded.Then crying becomes even more.The main reason is The thought of being skeptic.Mind says will I be saved? Will I  get a chance??

At same other time,mind says you're under guidance of SGGSJ ,at home of Guru Nanak Maharaj.Then mind says that day will certainly come.So that feeling (whether it's for few min) as If I've achieved that stage of union, asks mind to cry/shout as loud as possible in joy ,asks to say WAH!! Soul wants to experience this divine bliss,but when looks at herself,reminds that she is still alone,she is not with her purkh,then again starts crying.......But believe me after few days when you remember you were crying that you realise how tasteful was that!there is a bliss ,a unique taste in crying.And you want to cry again some other day,but that happens only when you're really realising your inner self.. 

 

 

 

 

 

You just described me bhen ji

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There are 2 types of people in the Sangat , one who actually experience and others who might not but do display the gestures out of complex ..what i personally feel is it is better to dive inside gradually and experience what you personally feel. If you feel to go there and enjoy the experience it is good you can gradually be unaffected to things happening around and just concentrate on the 'Naad' .

 

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I got to say, sometimes when I do simran at a Gurdwara or recite paat along with the sangat, I rock to and fro a bit. Nothing too dramatic though. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
 

- Did the Guru Ji's go through these fits?

- Did anyone in Sikhi history go through these fits? Like Bhai Mardana Ji, Baba Budda Ji, Bhai Gurdas Ji, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur?

- Did any of todays or 21st centuries Sant Mahapurakhs experience these fits?

 

Gupt jee, Satguru jee (fourth master) used to cry a lot, while praying. Please listen to the audio clip below by Gyani Thakur Singh jee. Please listen after 8.40 min.

http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04-Katha/13-Giani Thakur Singh Ji (Patiala Wale)/Katha Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji/CD02(Ang0019-0077)/0102-Ang-0036-Pankti-03.mp3

 

Srimaan 108 Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale also used to cry, when he used to visit the martyrdom place of Chotay Sahibjaday.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

Edited by paapiman
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  • 4 years later...
On 10/2/2015 at 2:30 AM, Guest Gupt said:

So recently I went down and have been attending a weekly program/divaan (I will not mention the place, Gurdwara or any names of any person) after having heard many rumours and things about it, and have seen everything for my self.

 

There is loud waheguru jaap which I truly enjoy as to say it is a good experience, one that i cannot get anywhere else however there is some things I simply do not understand and leaves me heavy hearted and uncomfortable. During the loud simran i see many people experiencing these 'fits' where they apparently seem to be in some kind of state but are just shaking and rolling around violently while screaming and crying. Then the person who is leading the divan sometimes stands up and tries to explain the reasoning for this however i cant seem to grasp it. I dont know if hes just giving a wrong excuse for it or if i geniuenly cannot find the answer. He said Gurbani explains why people scream, cry and start shaking when do simran but i have never found this in Gurbani. Well at least why people start shaking, i can kinda understand the crying.

 

Here are the questions I want answered:

 

- Why do these fits happen? What does gurbani say about these:

 

- Why people scream?

- Why people cry?

- ANd why people start shaking and having these 'fits' when doing simran?

- Did the Guru Ji's go through these fits?

- Did anyone in Sikhi history go through these fits? Like Bhai Mardana Ji, Baba Budda Ji, Bhai Gurdas Ji, Baba Banda Singh Bahadur?

- Did any of todays or 21st centuries Sant Mahapurakhs experience these fits?

 

 

Seriously if someone shed some light on this it will clear a lot of things up for me, I dont want to have the thought in the back of my mind that I am going to this weekly program getting brainwashed by something that isn't even gurmat. I also want to know the reasoning behind these fits.... it doesnt even look like they are in any anand, it actually looks like they are experiencing an attack but i want to know what causes it. why does it happen to some people and not others. Is it a physical experience or spiritual experience. All this does not seem right to me in front of maharaj's hazoori.

 

Just sharing some info found related to the questions placed above by Guest Gupt Jee:

 

THE COMMON MISCONCEPTION ABOUT MEDITATION IS THAT IT IS PRIMARILY A STRESS-RELIEF TOOL.

That is how it has been marketed in the past. In my opinion, meditation is a life-long practice of un-smudging yourself to see who you truly are. To see your authentic self, without the myriad masks that we normally wear.

MEDITATION HELPS US REALIZE THE TRUTH, THE ULTIMATE TRUTH ABOUT OURSELVES.

When we begin the process of un-smudging the layers, a lot of emotional distress will be revealed. Either it is grief at all of those moments you were unaware of yourself, or sadness at lost time, or joy at the discovery of your true self. A lot of emotions will come up when you first start meditating. Like any other detox, this mental detox of meditation will reveal and release a lot of toxins. In order to let go of your past, the past must come up in the form of emotions.

Let the emotions come up and let them go. Release them. Do not hold on to them. They are of no use to you anymore. Cry if you want to. Laugh out loud if need be. Whatever emotion you are feeling, feel it intensely, lean into it, and then let it all go.

TEARS ARE A GREAT HEALER - A GOOD CRY CAN HELP YOU RELEASE SO MUCH NEGATIVITY AND TOXICITY. ALONG WITH MEDITATION, A GOOD CRY CAN CLEANSE YOUR SOUL FROM THE INSIDE OUT. WE ALL COULD DO WITH ONE OF THESE DEEP CLEANSES.

Don't be afraid of crying during or after meditation. You are not going crazy. It is a necessary step in the process of letting go of your past selves. They don't serve you anymore. In order to grow, and move upward to your higher self, the past selves must be discarded. Crying will help you do so.

TIPS FOR BEGINNER MEDITATORS

1. Take some time after any meditation session to be on your own.

This time is necessary for you to integrate the learnings and growth that a meditation practice entails. In addition, being alone will give you permission to let go of emotions and cry if necessary.

2. Do not be afraid to cry.

Emotions are a natural part of who we are. Do not be ashamed of it. Crying is one of the most healing practices. It helps us let go of so much. I try to get a good cry in at least once a month.

3. If you need to talk to someone after you cry, please do so with someone you trust.

You are in an extremely vulnerable position after a meditation cry session and you need to be around people who will take care of you.

Author: Bhoom Shika.

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9 hours ago, hsingh6 said:

Bhai Sahib,

This is a pavitar forum in which genuine seekers share their actual experiences and learn from each others personal experiences...Most posts are typically brief as well. It would be useful if we all kept to the same discipline. Thank you

Some questions :

What has a pavitar forum to do with this thread or topic?

I have not seen apavitarta in any answers by the members above.

May I ask you, what apavitarta have you noticed?

Then being brief or not is relative and individual perspective to answer.

It all depends on how complete one may answer.

This does not mean, volumes of pages.

As long as one is not out of context and has an objective reply, it matters not much, if it is in one short line or 10 or 15...

Respect is important, sharing relevant information on the matter, with scientific evidences, or realistics,  by proffesionals, it does no harm to anybody.

On the other hand, what, if one has wrong or incomplete experiences, and one may induce someone in moving into the wrong direction, though unconsciously ? 

Of what use is that pavitarta?

In which way is that answer helpful?

This is an open and respectful free forum, with many different topics, in which each one can contribute with questions or answers to the best of one's ability, without insulting, or belittleling anyone.

This is what forums are about.

Plus, not always are personal experiences shared as answers.

Many a times, links are copied and pasted by posters of all levels, with videos going from some minutes to an hour and above, as answers. So, you see, it is not always personal expierences, but information which maybe helpful.

I think, we have to arise from being so petty, and being if not much, at least just a bit open minded, this may solve many of the so created problems.

One should not try to impose anything on anyone, that is being silly.

One should arise above personal differences,   for one may like some posters / members,  or not like them for whatever reason, the only thing that should prevail,  is being objective, sticking to the topic and respectful  towards all.

Otherwise, one  is being negative.  And this should be the discipline, to not fall into negativity.

It says very little of someone trying to judge and say to someone do not  say / do,  this or that .... 

Why so much limitedness,  or being manipulative ? 

 

SSA.

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This thread is 5 years old. Posts can be as long as you want as long the content is good. 

RE fits, shaking, squirming, rolling around while doing simran. This is caused by negative energy/karam/presences being pushed away by Gurbani. Once they're gone the experience develops into anand.

The Gurus and Bhramgianis probably never went through this process because it is caused by the presence of negative energy or bad karma which is something a Pavitar Pursh would not have in the first place.

 

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37 minutes ago, ragnarok said:

This thread is 5 years old. Posts can be as long as you want as long the content is good. 

Exactly.

That is what I was saying in my post above.

But people tend to mix up with things in their minds as rules, as if they were the Admins. Forgetting or ignoring what Forums are all about, which is being respectful,  being objective and clear as per best of one's ability, related to the topic or thread where posting.

 

RE fits, shaking, squirming, rolling around while doing simran. This is caused by negative energy/karam/presences being pushed away by Gurbani. Once they're gone the experience develops into anand.

The Gurus and Bhramgianis probably never went through this process because it is caused by the presence of negative energy or bad karma which is something a Pavitar Pursh would not have in the first place.

 True

 

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