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A true gurmukh sees GOD in every one and every thing...........Sabh Gobind hai, Gobind bin na koyee  

While paapi and SK go at each others necks as usual we have more important issues at hand. Beadbi of guru granth sahib ji, Singh's being shot, sangat getting latthi charge. Haven't seen any topic rega

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1. Nanaksar Perspective:

Note: Babjee below refers to Srimaan 108 Sant Baba Nand Singh jee Kaleranwale

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and once Babajee said, "Well done ladies! It is enough for you to serve your husbands. There is no need to come over here".

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[1] - Sri Nanaksar Stairs to God

 

2. Saints Perspective:

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Rishis (Saints) have said about a married woman that, "instead of looking to anybody else, she should regard her husband as her greatest Guru. A woman has to bow only to her husband and serve him with her own hands. Her duty is also to look after her children, her mother in law, father in law, brother in law, guide her children properly and look after the welfare of all family members. Thus her duties are many and all duties are of great responsibility.

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Bhul chuk maaf

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1) If a man is going to be worshipped as God, then he better be espousing and living ALL THE QUALITIES OF GOD each and every day of his life!

Do YOU know what those are Paapiman?? Do YOU espouse and live those qualities each and every day???
If not, then how can you ever be seen 'as' God?  In fact now matter how hard we try, no human can ever achieve this! 

Waheguru SERVES, Waheguru is humble, Waheguru sees ALL equally, has NO hate, NO emnity.  

Waheguru Ji is not like concept of God in Abrahamic religions, demanding to be worshipped.

Concept of Creator in Sikhi is within everything and everyone and IS everything and everyone.  Not some deity sitting on a cloud wanting to be worshipped. So no human should ever be thought of as a deity.  This is how your thinking is wrong.  There is no such thing as demi-Gods etc. because ALL of existence IS Creator.  

"The Creation was born OF the LIGHT, and the LIGHT is IN the Creation." - Devotee Kabir

The only way we can experience Waheguru is if WE OURSELVES espouse those qualities of Waheguru WITHIN OURSELVES, and then recognize those qualities also in others. Not by being worshipped by someone or seen as a God over them.

Therefore, the husband who is worthy of being seen 'as' God, will already have seen (and served) God in his wife too.  Otherwise he is not living the qualities of God is he (which include seeing and serving the divine in everyone)??

2) Also, by taking that tuk out of context you are now in disagreement with rest of Gurbani.  Gurbani can never contradict itself...
No human is to be seen 'as' God. And ONLY God is seen as true husband. The meaning you try to put on that shabad makes no sense and disagrees with this:

ਮੁੰਧੇ ਕੂੜਿ ਮੁਠੀ ਕੂੜਿਆਰਿ ॥
Munḏẖe kūṛ muṯẖī kūṛi▫ār.
O woman, the false ones are being cheated by falsehood. 
ਪਿਰੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸਾਚਾ ਸੋਹਣਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Pir parabẖ sācẖā sohṇā pā▫ī▫ai gur bīcẖār. ||1|| rahā▫o.
God is your Husband; He is Handsome and True. He is obtained by reflecting upon the Guru. ||1||Pause|| 

Not only is the mesage above clear that God is the TRUE husband, but it's also the "rahao" meaning this is the central message being conveyed!

Also this:
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਵਹਿ ਸੋਹਾਗਣੀ ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਸੇਜ ਭਤਾਰੁ ॥੩॥
Gurmukẖ ravėh sohāgaṇī so parabẖ sej bẖaṯār. ||3||
The Gurmukh is ravished like the pure and happy bride on the Bed of God, her Husband. ||3||

Or This:
ਸਭੇ ਕੰਤ ਮਹੇਲੀਆ ਸਗਲੀਆ ਕਰਹਿ ਸੀਗਾਰੁ ॥
Sabẖe kanṯ mahelī▫ā saglī▫ā karahi sīgār.
All are brides of the Husband Lord; all decorate themselves for Him.
 

3) If a physical wife, sees her physical husband 'as' God, and serving him as such, then she is being taken from her TRUE Husband.  That shabad is actually CONDEMNING the practice of sati as NO HUMAN deserves that kind of sacrifice. It specifically says those who do sati for physical husband will walk lost in countless incarnations. Then it tells us ONLY God deserves that sacrifice from us (both male and female both as soul-brides). To first make the statement that wives who did sati for physical husband have become lost walking in countless incarnations... and then to tell them to do that very thing by seeing their husband 'as' God makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever! So by seeing and serving a physical husband as God, the wife is being misdirected and taken away from the TRUE path of seeing only Waheguru as her Husband-Lord.   


 

Edited by Satkirin_Kaur
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Yes more than enough Gurbani has been shown to support that BOTH husband and wife are to see the divine in each other... Gurbani is the final word... period.  Not what some 'sants' may have interpreted based on their own opinions.  This is evident in how some 'Sants' disagree with each other proving they are not perfect and can still interpret things based on their own intentions.  Gurbani is the final say and Gurbani has shown that both husband and wife are to see and serve the divine in each other...as equals. Gurbani has also shown NO human should be seen 'AS God' as the only Waheguru Ji is worthy of that.  Also, the true husband being spoken of in Gurbani is Waheguru (husband lord) to us male and female both (soul bride).  

So Gurbani has final word, and proves Paapiman wrong.  Yes we can close on that note. 

Edited by Satkirin_Kaur
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she is continuously using extremely offending tone for all sants of Sikh faith, with words like some sants etc. 

And saying women have to see their physical husband as God over them is NOT offending??  I'm offended!!!  Read Sukrit Kaur's post above... she clearly does not believe it either!  

What I said was some Sants disagree with each other, so it shows they are human like us.  

Edited by Satkirin_Kaur
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so much hate full of sants, and please note that sant slanderers do not need any poison.

still pray that may Satguru Bless you,

 

 

Slander = spoken word which is FALSE.  I did not say anything which is not true... (or write... which is actually caleld 'libel') there are some Sants who disagree with other sants.  They both can not be correct right?  Foe example AKJ sant and ddt sant disagree on things... nihang sant disagrees from both on some things.  So sants like us are human and have their own opinions which are based on their own backgrounds that they were taught.  

Now to me poison is wanting to put women in position beneath men.  Hatred towards women to the point they want women to bow down to men as Gods over them.... in some cases God is seen as authority figure over, in others like Paapiman its seen in literal sense because he considers women as only half humans.  This teaching also supposedly came from a 'sant'.  Women are not beneath men.  Men are not Gods over women or even authority figures over women.  Men and women are equal... wives and husbands are on equal level to each other.  Neither bosses the other around.  Neither is subordinate.  They both work together, they both make decisions together. Both would (if they truly love each other) do anything for each other.  But neither is put into a position of subordination. Gurbani AGREES with this. 

So is it poison to follow one sant over another?  Who is to say who is right and who is wrong?  Should we even follow sants over Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? We can respect someone without agreeing with them, or even doing what they say.  

It's 'poison' to make statement that wives must 'obey' and see their husbands as God over them. 

 

Edited by Satkirin_Kaur
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She does not respect Sants, thinks they are just normal humans, does not realize that true Sants are no less than manifestation of God.

She does not respect the old tradition of only celibate Hazoori Singh doing sewa inside the Hazoor Sahib Nanded.

She does not respect Damdami Taksal tradition or other older traditions.

She does not believe in Charitropakhyan and portions of Dasam Granth.

She believes women can do any sewa of Guru Granth Sahib especially when she is menstruating.

She believes men are not required in future, females will be able to reproduce on their own.

She does not realize that a single Gurbani pankti can have multiple meanings depending on context situation and person

May GOD bless her with more understanding and clarity.

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She does not respect Sants, thinks they are just normal humans, does not realize that true Sants are no less than manifestation of God.

She does not respect the old tradition of only celibate Hazoori Singh doing sewa inside the Hazoor Sahib Nanded.

She does not respect Damdami Taksal tradition or other older traditions.

She does not believe in Charitropakhyan and portions of Dasam Granth.

She believes women can do any sewa of Guru Granth Sahib especially when she is menstruating.

She believes men are not required in future, females will be able to reproduce on their own.

She does not realize that a single Gurbani pankti can have multiple meanings depending on context situation and person

May GOD bless her with more understanding and clarity.

And may God Bless you with clarity of being able to see the divine light in ALL equally and not want to push women into subordinate role. Life is not just for men's enjoyment. And women are not here just to serve men and see them as God.  

And there is the word... *true* sants... how do we tell?  Which Jatha's sants are *true*??  They all can't be since they disagree on some things right?

My litmus test is Gurbani.  There are no multiple meanings...  There is a reason there is a RAHAO line in the shabad... to show the main idea being conveyed.  Single tuks can not be taken out of context just because someone wants to.  Or else any of us can justify just about anything we want in Gurbani with a single tuk! 

DDT DOES have some concerning conflicts in their Rehet Maryada.  At least the current version.  On the one hand they say all differences were eliminated with the creation of the Khalsa - including gender. And on the other hand they want women to bow down to men as God over them. Thats a conflict. A blatent one. I am right to be concerned about it.  And I am not the only one.

Finally, there is NO SOOTAK in Sikhi.  The Gurus condemned this thinking... by saying those who merely wash their bodies are not called pure... purity is within the mind.  YOu can wash all you want, but if within your mind naam does not exist then you can never be -pure- The idea that simply having blood makes someone somehow impure was condemned.   So yes Singhnis CAN do seva on their period... as for basic hygiene... use tampons!  Sheesh! Nothing comes out of the body!

Edited by Satkirin_Kaur
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And may God Bless you with clarity of being able to see the divine light in ALL equally and not want to push women into subordinate role. Life is not just for men's enjoyment. And women are not here just to serve men and see them as God. 

Without even seeing the light in all, I can say that I do not push women in a subordinate role , nor do I want any woman to worship me like a God, I am not that worthy of being worshipped. I dont understand why you have to keep stressing this point. 

I am sure no one here wants to be worshipped by their wife in a literal sense, and papiman does not even want to marry so this issue doesnt even bother him. And the issue of understanding and faithfullness is understood both ways and is very clear and implicit. I dont know why you keep have to stressing it again and again.

Yes, the stage of seeing light in all , that is what we all aspire for. That is the end stage, and when that happens there is no need for rebirth.

 

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Without even seeing the light in all, I can say that I do not push women in a subordinate role , nor do I want any woman to worship me like a God, I am not that worthy of being worshipped. I dont understand why you have to keep stressing this point. 

Because you accused me of dissing DDT.  This is DDT's thinking.  That women are to be in subordinate role. 

I am sure no one here wants to be worshipped by their wife in a literal sense, and papiman does not even want to marry so this issue doesnt even bother him. And the issue of understanding and faithfullness is understood both ways and is very clear and implicit. I dont know why you keep have to stressing it again and again.

You and I know this... but then how do we have people like Paapiman being misguided and taking it literally??? Or thinking that it only goes one way?? 

Yes, the stage of seeing light in all , that is what we all aspire for. That is the end stage, and when that happens there is no need for rebirth.

Not entirely true.  It doesn't take one to be fully liberated to see the divine light in all. To look at photos of a supposed enemy and cry because they are suffering, to pass a poor man on the street and not be able to walk by without shedding a tear, to want to do whatever you can in the community to help others - one person can not do everything alone.  But everyone can do something.  And when you do something no matter how small, you WILL start to see it. I guarantee it.  

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You are talking about seeing Divine in all in a poetic or an abstract manner. Imagining or pretending a divine in an enemy and helping him, it is a good exercise though.

When I say, see divine in all,  I am talking literally.  Only when a person reaches the peak of their spiritual penance, there comes a stage sab gobind hai sab gobind hai...divine is everywhere.  This is very deep stuff, we cant even think of reaching it just yet, so many steps before this happens.

 

Edited by Ragmaala
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You are talking about seeing Divine in all in a poetic or an abstract manner. Imagining or pretending a divine in an enemy and helping him, it is a good exercise though.

When I say, see divine in all,  I am talking literally.  Only when a person reaches the peak of their spiritual penance, there comes a stage sab gobind hai sab gobind hai...divine is everywhere.  This is very deep stuff, we cant even think of reaching it just yet, so many steps before this happens.

 

I'm not talking poetic or pretending... There have been soldiers fighting on opposite sides who actually say they have had this realization and it was profound it wasn't in some poetic sense but in a very real way.  

As for indirect it's the way unfortunately we must experience since we are in this world. We are observing the dreamer from within the dream... We can only do so by understanding the dream characters are all in fact the same one dreamer, and this includes us.  We have to go within to escape the dream world and then live the qualities of God and we will see these qualities in everyone.  Trick is realizing some dream characters have not yet awaken to the fact they are in a dream... 

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