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23 hours ago, GurpreetKaur said:

Also if I let my husband walk front of me,call him hanji and tusi when he says tu to me,  and does not care that he would not do the dishes then that does not mean I have to be a housewife. My Aunty is a doctor and listen to my uncle like crazy, it's called respect. People go to gurdwara and do seva there, shoe seva is done too. They do it gain humbleness. 

I once read somewhere that treat your family like a Sangat. I know you would hate the idea of serving your husband but I don't. If I can't serve him, how can I do seva at gurdwara sahib and serve others.

 

Brilliant points sister.

 

Page 235, Line 11
ਸਹਜ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ਫਲੁ ਮਸਕੀਨੀ ॥
सहज सुहेला फलु मसकीनी ॥
Sahj suhelā fal maskīnī.
The fruit of humility is intuitive peace and pleasure.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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Just wanted to add the Gurbani line of one soul in two bodies is frequently used in regards to marriage. This actually refers to the union of the soul of the spiritual seeker with Waheguru and NOT between the husband and wife. The lavan in fact describe different stages in the evolution of the soul as it nears God. Each lavan is a metaphor for the life of the seeker, doing parkarma around Guru ji who is the seeker's center, moving closer to union with each parkarma.  The spouse you have in this janam might be a brother or friend or enemy or stranger in another janam. In Sikh dharm the only soulmate is God. So beware of being lead astray by silly romantic notions of 'the one' or 'soulmate'. It's a game of karma and the way to overcome is through dharma.

Edited by Xylitol
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Both parties influenced by society patriarchy and feminist model have to rise above from these model for their own sake, own soul- self realization or to be gurmukh to truly follow vows of anand karaj. Self realization is totally different way of being not confined to gender based society models...as soon as you identify with these models, you will start start boxing  yourself into groupism or belief system then viola congratulations you managed yourself to start samasa - wheel of suffering machine once again and fall in right clutches of maya - deep illusion. Good luck unboxing/un digging the grave you made yourself.

The problem is we carry so much unnecessary baggage with us its not necessary... it will have adverse affect on our spirituality as its hinders the truth. Unfortunate thing is people who are affected by these society models will never let their guard down and see truth as it is without lenses of both feminism and patriarchy model.

Gurmat is middle way - truth as it is -  not this or that.

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  • 6 months later...

The below topic is related to this topic. Gurmukhs procreating with a different technology, rather than indulging in sexual intercourse. This can be used to clearly prove that any type of sexual activity for pleasure (including between married couples) is prohibited in Sikhism.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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  • 1 year later...

The below post (from another topic) made by Raju jee is very much relevant to this topic.

Quote

I cannot speak for anyone else but a brahgyani told me that sex should only be used for reproduction. After a few years the reason for this became clear. Even arousal uses pran. Higher stages of meditation cannot become stable unless pran is stable. A great deal of pran is expelled during arousal and intercourse, and those who have strong desire for spiritual progress will try to abstain once they experience the effect and impact.

Of course, abstinence isn't for everyone, but we shouldn't make assumptions without understanding purpose and how this machine (body) works.

Lust is a big struggle for many of us. Myself included. Even swapan dosh ruins meditation for a while. Many lifetimes of dirt needs to be washed away before we start making real progress.

Unquote

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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On 9/29/2017 at 4:13 PM, paapiman said:

I cannot speak for anyone else but a brahgyani told me that sex should only be used for reproduction.

That doesn't make sense. The universe runs in cycles with day-night, weeks, months, lunar etc..  the female shakti power is also in sync with lunar(female) energies. Fertility reaches peaks and troughs like most universal energies. Sikhi, gurbani or rehat doesn't stipulate that you can only have sex for reproduction, otherwise the female would be fertile at all times.   

Nowadays, it's easy to determine if one is infertile. Some marriages are not destined to have children, so does this couple never engage in intimacy? -> Will only lead to the marriage breaking down.  Need to check the other thread with regards to kaam and how it's misunderstood.  

On 9/29/2017 at 4:13 PM, paapiman said:

he reason for this became clear. Even arousal uses pran. Higher stages of meditation cannot become stable unless pran is stable. A great deal of pran is expelled during arousal and intercourse, and those who have strong desire for spiritual progress will try to abstain once they experience the effect and impact.

This is spot on. Even buddha speaks about this and how you should re-direct those energies in meditation towards spiritual practice. The prana is lost and wasted in kaam, but it can also be abundant if one does spiritual practice of enshrining God's naam or doing jaap at hirda. There are countless references of keeping the lord's name vibrating in the heart. Heart has an enormous amount electromagnetic energy that can keep a constant supply of vitality(prana). 

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  • 2 months later...

Quote

There is nothing that suggests that sexual activity is only for procreation in Sikhi. That is your opinion. The whole idea that sex is bad/evil is a very Judeo-Christian concept. While there are Sikhs who practise this in reality, it does not make it a Sikh practise. I personally don't know of any Sikhs who engage in sexual activity solely for the purpose of having children. People also have sex out of love, and while that love is lowly love compared to the love of God, it's still relevant to dunyavi beings. If one is not allowed to have physical relations with his/her partner except for procreation, then what's the point of getting married? Might as well have children out of wedlock and carry on with our spiritual journey alone. You're also forgetting that the instituton of marriage also helps to control kaam. The panj vikaar, in most cases, cannot be completely destroyed. They can however be controlled. In addition to this, normal sexual behaviour differs from kaam IMHO; the desire for sex is a wholly natural process which seemingly can come out of nowhere without being prompted.

Unquote (MrDoaba)

@MrDoaba

 

Bro, almost all Saints/Gurmukhs will agree to limit sexual activity for procreation. They might give a person some leeway, if they realize that his spiritual level is very low (to avoid any potential bigger problems/sins), but they will never agree that Sikhism allows sexual activities (including within marriage) for pleasure/fun. It is also pretty obvious in Gurbani that all types of sexual activities (manifestations of Kaam) are a sin. The only difference is the degree of sin. Any type of sexual activity, outside of marriage, is a huge sin (Bajjar Kurehit). Within marriage, it would be considered as a very small sin. Humans (including Brahamgyanis) cannot escape from sins, while living on this matlok. We can only try to minimize them as much as possible.

Daas will give you a similar example. Bibek Rehat (hope you know what that means) is a must for Sikhs. How many Sikhs do you know, who practice it? Even, I don't follow it. Daas knows of chardikala wale Gurmukhs, who do not follow it. But, the fact is that it is a sin to eat food, prepared or donated, by non-Amritdharis/Nigure, according to Gurbani. 

IMHO, Sikh couples should set the bar high when it comes to sexual activities. If you marry someone, keeping in mind that our Satgurus gave us permission to enjoy sex for pleasure, you will end up wasting plenty of your energy on this activity (which is done by animals too). That energy could be used towards Naam Simran. On the other hand, if the couple is aware of the ideal Sikh way of living, at least they will try to help each other out to fight the army of this demon (Kaam). Remember, 2 people form a sangat. Sangat can be really helpful in avoiding or minimizing sins.

 

Bhul chuk maaf 

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On 31/12/2017 at 8:41 PM, paapiman said:

Bro, almost all Saints/Gurmukhs will agree to limit sexual activity for procreation. They might give a person some leeway, if they realize that his spiritual level is very low (to avoid any potential bigger problems/sins), but they will never agree that Sikhism allows sexual activities (including within marriage) for pleasure/fun.

Fair enough, but that is their interpretation. Plus Sants/Babe are not infallible IMO. Also, what they say does not apply to everyone.

What about to strengthen the bond between man and wife? Sex is more than just for pleasure. If it is only for procreation, then why get married in the first place? It does not make sense logically. Why such importance on Anand Kaaraj or on married life? Why not just have babies out of wedlock?

Science is so advanced now, why don't people use that to produce children? Because according to what you're saying, sex is now obsolete.

On 31/12/2017 at 8:41 PM, paapiman said:

It is also pretty obvious in Gurbani that all types of sexual activities (manifestations of Kaam) are a sin.

This is a extreme and somewhat ridiculous observation. So that means having sex for the purpose of procreation is also a sin which is even more ridiculous.

On 31/12/2017 at 8:41 PM, paapiman said:

Any type of sexual activity, outside of marriage, is a huge sin (Bajjar Kurehit). Within marriage, it would be considered as a very small sin.

That means pretty much everything we do is a sin.

On 31/12/2017 at 8:41 PM, paapiman said:

Bibek Rehat (hope you know what that means) is a must for Sikhs. How many Sikhs do you know, who practice it? Even, I don't follow it. Daas knows of chardikala wale Gurmukhs, who do not follow it. But, the fact is that it is a sin to eat food, prepared or donated, by non-Amritdharis/Nigure, according to Gurbani. 

I do know what it means. I may be new to this forum but I'm not new to Sikhi! Good point, I only know of one Sikh who keeps Bibek. Never met him though.

On 31/12/2017 at 8:41 PM, paapiman said:

IMHO, Sikh couples should set the bar high when it comes to sexual activities. If you marry someone, keeping in mind that our Satgurus gave us permission to enjoy sex for pleasure, you will end up wasting plenty of your energy on this activity (which is done by animals too). That energy could be used towards Naam Simran.

Now I'm confused. So Guru Sahib has given permission to enjoy sex for pleasure? You do have a good point about wasting energy. But many people waste energy on other things too, such is unavoidable in grist jeevan.

Sex can also have a spiritual component.

On 31/12/2017 at 8:41 PM, paapiman said:

On the other hand, if the couple is aware of the ideal Sikh way of living, at least they will try to help each other out to fight the army of this demon (Kaam). Remember, 2 people form a sangat. Sangat can be really helpful in avoiding or minimizing sins.

Fight the demon of kaam by having each other as on outlet in the sanctity of marriage. Different Sangat play different roles. If you cannot have sex with your partner except for procreation, then again, why not just have kids out of wedlock and use other Sangat to help you fight kaam?

 

Lastly you seem to be making a huge assumption that every Sikh is reaching for Brahmgyaanihood, which if you look at reality, is never gonna happen.

 

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Lot of people, couples after some level of awakening reports decrease in sexual activity naturally as they are more connected with inner subject/seer/consciousness/atma/chaitna than outside object, but at the same time they also mention they live their life in harmony and in undivided way-everything is expression of life and consciousness (than personal ego I-claiming ownership) which means they are not divided within themselves with dilemma or doubts.

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4 hours ago, sarabatam said:

Lot of people, couples after some level of awakening reports decrease in sexual activity naturally as they are more connected with inner subject/seer/consciousness/atma/chaitna than outside object, but at the same time they also mention they live their life in harmony and in undivided way-everything is expression of life and consciousness (than personal ego I-claiming ownership) which means they are not divided within themselves with dilemma or doubts.

Yeah I'm not denying that bro. I even said the same thing in the asexuality thread. But to say it's a outright sin even in marriage, and that it's banned unless for procreation is kattarvaadi at it's finest, and not to mention has no basis.

This isn't Christian Victorian England. No need to be frigid and ashamed of sex.

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Just now, MrDoaba said:

Yeah I'm not denying that bro. I even said the same thing in the asexuality thread. But to say it's a outright sin even in marriage, and that it's banned unless for procreation is kattarvaadi at it's finest, and not to mention has no basis.

This isn't Christian Victorian England. No need to be frigid and ashamed of sex.

Agreed 100%

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1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

Fair enough, but that is their interpretation. Plus Sants/Babe are not infallible IMO. Also, what they say does not apply to everyone.

What about to strengthen the bond between man and wife? Sex is more than just for pleasure. If it is only for procreation, then why get married in the first place? It does not make sense logically. Why such importance on Anand Kaaraj or on married life? Why not just have babies out of wedlock?

Science is so advanced now, why don't people use that to produce children? Because according to what you're saying, sex is now obsolete.

This is a extreme and somewhat ridiculous observation. So that means having sex for the purpose of procreation is also a sin which is even more ridiculous.

That means pretty much everything we do is a sin.

I do know what it means. I may be new to this forum but I'm not new to Sikhi! Good point, I only know of one Sikh who keeps Bibek. Never met him though.

Now I'm confused. So Guru Sahib has given permission to enjoy sex for pleasure? You do have a good point about wasting energy. But many people waste energy on other things too, such is unavoidable in grist jeevan.

Sex can also have a spiritual component.

Fight the demon of kaam by having each other as on outlet in the sanctity of marriage. Different Sangat play different roles. If you cannot have sex with your partner except for procreation, then again, why not just have kids out of wedlock and use other Sangat to help you fight kaam?

 

Lastly you seem to be making a huge assumption that every Sikh is reaching for Brahmgyaanihood, which if you look at reality, is never gonna happen.

 

I agree with u on this..👍🏻 So many people think sex is a sin. We are suppose to keep sex under control and not keep thinking it’s a sin even with our partner in marriage. Everything becomes sin when not under control.. it doesn’t apply only for sex. 

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5 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

This isn't Christian Victorian England. No need to be frigid and ashamed of sex.

Along with the above, you also mentioned that this whole idea is a Judeo-Christain concept. 

Daas is not sure about the above, as my knowledge of Abhrahamic religions is poor, but this concept existed in Hinduism (which is older than Abhrahamic religions) too. Obviously, not all schools of thoughts propagated it, but this concept was prevalent in Sanatan mat.

Maintaining celibacy as a married couple. This concept was know to the great Rishis and is very much in line with the Gurmat principle of "Maya vich Udasi".

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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On 1/3/2018 at 7:26 AM, MrDoaba said:

Those who practise celibacy, married or not, Rishis or not, practise it not because sex is a sin/bad/evil, but because it's not compatible with their preferred lifestyle. They see it a a hindrance to their specific goals, goals I might add, which the majority are not aiming for nor intend to.

Absolutely correct.. 

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22 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Just do it

haha nice one,  yeah man. If you are married, just do it..thinking about it causes suffering, causes more desires-ensues more karma, the problem is wider society made sex so trivial, everyone is thinking about it more than doing it without thinking but in reality need for it is similar to eating, one eats food, becomes one with food the cycle continues, thats it not even more second is spend thinking about it.

Has anyone heard of someone taking rebirth either in literature or katha because  need of food? NO!!, sex is same thing, its biological need for humans, its not the sex causes karma/samsara-suffering/rebirth its just the desire for it/thoughts about it causes future wheel of suffering in birth and death.

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1 hour ago, sarabatam said:

haha nice one,  yeah man. If you are married, just do it..thinking about it causes suffering, causes more desires-ensues more karma, the problem is wider society made sex so trivial, everyone is thinking about it more than doing it without thinking but in reality need for it is similar to eating, one eats food, becomes one with food the cycle continues, thats it not even more second is spend thinking about it.

Has anyone heard of someone taking rebirth either in literature or katha because  need of food? NO!!, sex is same thing, its biological need for humans, its not the sex causes karma/samsara-suffering/rebirth its just the desire for it/thoughts about it causes future wheel of suffering in birth and death.

 

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