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Feminist agenda gets owned by Milo Yiannopoulos


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N3O what I get is that you are saying strict Patriarchy and Strict feminism is bad and somewhere in the middle is where it should be. However, that still means Patriarchy.  

 

Strict Patriarchy (males have all power) ---------- Feminism (Egalitarianism) ---------- Strict Matriarchy (women have all power)

                                                                     ^                 
                                        This is where you are saying the ideal should be,
                                        However this still places women under the control of men,
                                        but maybe with a few more liberties than with strict Patriarchy at the extreme end.
                                        (Basically loosen our chains a little bit to appease us, but still keep us shackled
                                        ultimately under male control.)

This still places ultimate control in the hands of men. We only get what liberties and privileges males choose to allow us. And still must abide by restrictions placed on us by males. It still places ultimate control in the hands of men while giving women very little because what control we do have is still governed by how much slack the men feel like giving.  In the real world, this is playing out currently in Darbar Sahib where we are barred from seva... and it's men making the decision. Sure, we have freedom to walk around and pray and be there, and take Amrit (some liberties) but we are still restricted and controlled by 'male authority'.  Or in marriage if the husband makes the final decisions on things (male head of family and wife submissive model) since the decisions all rest on him, her desires and wishes are secondary to his. What he wants is ultimately what happens, and whatever freedoms and decisions she does get to make, are only because HE decided  to give them to her.  Meaning she is still in subjection.

So your 'ideal' still falls into the male authority and control realm and women still in subjection.  This is hardly ideal because our entire life and everything we do, our wishes, our dreams, our desires are ENTIRELY dependent upon what kind of mood the males are in and how generous they feel at the time. It's still living in subjection. 

Ask yourself in a marriage especially, when once person's wishes desires etc are entirely dependent upon the other's good will... what *bargaining chip* does the wife have to have her needs met?? And you will start to see how some of the stories in DG could become reality. 

I hate the word feminism actually.  Because it's not about women gaining all the power. It's about sharing power equally between the genders. Egalitarianism / Humanism are much better terms. Also there is no 'agenda' that makes it sound like something ominous... there is no malice intended at all. Anyone who claims to want egalitarian control model, is not out with an 'agenda' to subdue men and subjugate them. The only thing we strive for is to have equal opportunity and equal control / power in society, religion, home. In short, we're just tired of being 'controlled' by the opposite gender.  We only want to break free of our own chains, not put new ones on the men LOL.

 


 

 

 

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If any female feels the need to cry at criticism, a year in the military will cure that. In fact, even just basic training (boot camp) will cure them of it. 

As for sciences / medicine etc. I say leave it up to merit. Plenty of women are getting higher grades than men and making their marks in the sciences and topping their fields. All jobs should just be left based on one's merits.

 

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2 hours ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

Strict Patriarchy (males have all power)

Bullshit. The idea that men have power and they use their power to oppress women is completely false.

1. Males don't have all have power.

2. You cannot ignore the covert power (feminine wiles) or "by proxy" power of women.

3. Only a few males have visible, overt power.

4. And males exercise power to benefit mostly women. http://rutgerssocialcognitionlab.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/9/7/13979590/rudmangoodwin2004jpsp.pdf

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Feminism (Egalitarianism)

Bullshit. See Milo's videos above.

Also see Karen Straughan's videos.

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This is where you are saying the ideal should be,
                                        However this still places women under the control of men,

Since the above two are bullshit, this is also bullshit.
 

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 In the real world, this is playing out currently in Darbar Sahib where we are barred from seva... and it's men making the decision.

 

This is too complicated an issue to explain here, but for those who have a grasp of feminist agenda, just know that statements like these are part of an attack on men and religion (and our ancestors), to put them under suspicion and destabilize our society. To pit men and women against each other, and to pit different religious groups and non-religious groups against each other. This is done haphazardly and without any understanding of reality.

 

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Or in marriage if the husband makes the final decisions on things (male head of family and wife submissive model) since the decisions all rest on him, her desires and wishes are secondary to his. What he wants is ultimately what happens, and whatever freedoms and decisions she does get to make, are only because HE decided  to give them to her.  Meaning she is still in subjection.

 

This is simply projection.

Women projecting their own nature onto men.

Men generally place the needs and desires of others before themselves. In a family, the husband places the needs of his wife and children before himself. The wife places the needs of the children before herself.

(Btw this is why in Guru Granth Sahib an ideal wife is described as one who also places her husband before herself. And an ideal husband is described as one who also places God before himself.)

This plays out even in our epics. One of the greatest heroes and one of the greatest villains in India, Ram Chandra ji and Ravan, both placed the needs and desires of others before themselves. And by others I mean primarily women (Sita ji and Shroopnakha).

Men like Baba Deep Singh ji and sikhs he led in raids against the Afghans, placed the needs and desires of random, strange, village women before themselves. And those Afghans who stole the women, killed off the men of those villages, and they would have killed the women too if they were not women. And then the feminists will want us to believe that men oppress women. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

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Ask yourself in a marriage especially, when once person's wishes desires etc are entirely dependent upon the other's good will...

This is true in any marriage. A marriage is a co-operative system and if you don't get good-will from both sides, it will start to fall apart.

Leadership is a co-operative game. If both parties don't co-operate, there is no leadership.

 

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what *bargaining chip* does the wife have to have her needs met??

The fact that she is a feminine woman and she is dealing with a masculine man.

The fact she will become pregnant and depend entirely on him for the first 9 months and for 2-3 years once the baby is born.

 

Suppose a world where all things are equal...

Human pregnancy alone will give birth (pun intended) to gender roles.

1. During pregnancy, the wife is incapable of doing many things.
2. After childbirth, she has to breastfeed her baby.

This means that during this significant portion of her life, which could be anywhere from 4-20 years(depending on how many kids she has). She is in a state where she requires from her husband - protection and provisions.

What is that if not gender roles?

 

And this is just talking about pregnancy. Just pregnancy alone explains so much. And we have yet to even factor in the reality that men and women are different on every level, biological, psychological, behavioural, etc. That they are different in ways that feminists cannot digest.

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Men are being controlled by women too, it's just we choose not to see it. A woman can shed two tears and can blame her husband for abusing her, no one will ask for proof. A woman can easily take the custody of a child no matter how vicious she is. A woman is entitled to her husband's property after divorce, which she did not even earn in the first place. A woman does not have to register for selective service, does not work with heavy machinery( construction jobs). A man has to provide for the kids after divorce. Fighting for things like equal pay make sense but men and women will never be equal period. Men will never be able to wear sari while women can wear jeans. Lol . No matter how ugly a woman is, with make up she can trick any man. Poor man can never do that lol.

In marriage, a man suffer too, his desires and wishes are killed too. A man is stuck between listening to mom or wife lol. Financial responsibilities are usually on men, if a man is failing in this area he feel miserable. Now I know we can say society made this rule. But if you have to live on this planet you gotta Follow rules and regulation. Or you can say you are a free inhabitant just like this lady lol 

 

Women have so much power or maybe I live in different planet as I was questioned about my planet lol. Both gender have advantages and disadvantages and that balance everything out. 

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In marriage especially however this "obedience" thing has to go.... unless it's a two way street where both are obedient to each other. Otherwise anything she gets will ALWAYS be HIS prerogative... and never the other way around.  Don't you get it doesn't matter if he *usually* puts her first. It's the very fact that any freedom or control she has is ENTIRELY dependent on how much he's willing to loosen her chains!!! So even if he treats her like a queen... she is STILL IN THE SUBORDINATE POSITION. Just being in the subordinate position is DEGRADING AND DEMEANING. No matter how many gifts you give someone, or treat them well, if you look DOWN on them as being BENEATH you, then it sucks for them!!!

What I am talking about are those who say the husband is in AUTHORITY over his wife.  That HE gets to make all the decisions.  What I am talking about, is that decisions should be made equally between them so that BOTH of their needs, desires etc are met.  So she won't be a subordinate.

Case in point: Lets say a family has only one television, and her favourite show is on at the same time as the big game he wanted to see. In a marriage where the male is considered leader and authority and has the last say and she is to be 'obedient' how often do you think she will get to see her show? VAST majority of men would keep the football on. Don't even deny it!!!!! So you are saying it's HER duty to put him before herself. Okay so she does... but then as I said, its always his needs being met and not hers. But this is even petty example... but these petty things add up. If everything is always HIS way and HIS advantage and HIS prerogative, at the expense of hers, then she becomes smothered and in chains. Your idea of 'cooperative is he leads she follows unquestioningly' how is that fair??? 

As for pregnancy, MAJORITY of women now work, and have maternity leave. Or like here in Canada, the father and mother can actually SPLIT THE PATERNITY / MATERNITY leave! So the wife is NOT dependent on the husband at all! Her own career pays for it. Just like he can also take paternity leave or they can split it between them which MANY families do! My aunt took the first half and her husband took the second half. They bottle fed so there was no need for her to be stuck to the house. They SHARED the caring of the baby. Also most women work right till the 9th month!!!! So you can't use pregnancy as an excuse! 

And yes that was my point about "wiles" the ONLY reason women would need to resort to that (I know a lady in a strict Christian marriage where husband has full authority) this may get a bit graphic and I apologize but he hounded her to let him ejaculate in her mouth. She resisted. He held this OBEY thing above her head... she tried it once and got physically ill (threw up) when he did. She resisted more.  But he was holding out on things bought a new motorcycle for himself but wouldn't take the kids to a theme park they wanted to go to after getting good grades etc. So she used it as a bargaining chip. She told him he could ejaculate in her mouth if he took them. He agreed. Now, she degrades herself every night having to throw up after him finishing in her mouth, just so she could get something for the kids. What was the alternative? Let him buy all the toys he wanted for himself and forget about her and kids needs entirely and also 'obey' and let him ejaculate in her mouth every night??  

It's complete BS to say that most men put their wives before themselves!!!! BS!!!!!! Get me a 'sammich' ring any bells? Cook me dinner, fetch my slippers, clean up my mess, get me a beer, do this do that. Submit to every demand I have in bed even if it grosses you out or causes you pain. THATS how most men are!!! Have a few extra dollars, guess what - new motorcycle for him, or tools, or a weekend away fishing with the 'boys'.  Forget anything she wants. Birthdays etc? Forget a nice thoughtful gift, most men get kitchen things or things for the house and give that to their wife. How degrading!  Here's your birthday gift honey, a swifer so you can clean up after me! Give me a break!!!!  Actually the BEST gift a husband could EVER give his wife, is equal authority and control in the family. Allow her points to have equal weight to his! (and even then, you see how it comes down to HIM GIVING her this - so she is STILL the subordinate!!!! It's like it's inescapable!!!!!) Barring that, hiring domestic help to do all the menial housework and cooking would be a good second!

And my final point.... There is a REASON why society frowns on sexual relationships between boss / employee. It's creepy and in any relationship where one has authority or power over the other, sex can never be an expression of love between them. It becomes a 'duty' for the one in the subordinate position and an 'entitlement' to the one with the authority. In boss / employer scenarios, ultimately the employee is taken advantage of (either they are doing it for a promotion or benefits etc, or the boss is demanding it for fear of witholding a promotion etc) I could never imagine marrying someone I considered my 'boss'.  Creepy... yucky!  And I would NEVER be able to engage in intimacy with that person!!!

If you think you can without degrading your wife, then all the power to you. But I HOPE and PRAY that you NEVER EVER abuse the power she gives you if she puts herself in subordinate position. Try to imagine being the one who has to lay down her entire will, so you can have yours fulfilled and she is literally putting herself into chains beneath you and hoping that you will consider her needs as well. If you even go 1% over half way and keep choosing what YOU want, and expecting her to just obey, you are already guilty of taking advantage of her.  If you can live with the knowledge that you have subjugated another human beneath you by expecting them to 'obey' and 'submit' to you, then as I said all the power to you.  I could never do that from either role.  My husband and I see each other as equals. And we have NEVER had an issue. He wouldn't dream of subordinating me. 

--- And this was just marriage... LOL.  

Darbar Sahib situation frustrates me to no end because I know MANY Singhnis who are better at kirtan than some of the Singhs there!  Like Acapella Jatha. They have beautiful voices and can sing like no Singh ever could with a vocal range impossible for Singhs to have. It's MEN protesting the idea that they could ever do kirtan there. Why?  What about Palki Sahib Seva? Chaur Sahib Seva? Washing sanctum sanctorum? Seva cleaning the sarovar? How about Granthi there? why not ever have a female Granthi there??? Why are all the kathas there done by men?? I won't even get into Panj Pyaras because I know how you feel on that already.  And granted most Gurdwaras don't place these restrictions... but certainly Darbar Sahib as the most prominent Sikh holy place, should set the example!!!???? But it's MEN who oppose it. And those MEN hold the control. Why not form a 50/50 panel of Sikh men and women, and then vote on it??

 

 

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f you think you can without degrading your wife, then all the power to you. But I HOPE and PRAY that you NEVER EVER abuse the power she gives you if she puts herself in subordinate position. 

^^

Lol..you just made up your mind that he will abuse his wife and she will have no choice lol.

All those are extreme situations and any man who is being that abusive is wrong. However, since not all men are vicious, not all women are Saint either lol. You never ever take any man's side, somebody posted a video where men in India were being victim since women are given more rights when it comes to domestic problems. You said no words about it lol

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if a man demand sandwich, woman demand dresses or jewelry. If a woman keep a man happy with food, a man keep woman happy with gifts. Different way of showing love . Both make money but a woman will always get excited to get a gift from her husband and any guy who gives kitchen stuff as gift is stupid lol. However, most of the men willing to keep their women happy and put effort for marriage to work. and women does the same since in Indian communities, a marriage is not about husband and wife, it's about families. 

You are kinda putting all the men in a place where they are like jerk type of abusers and women are victims lol. I said before and will say again any woman can easily control a man and being obedient might be a one way and always fighting might be another way.

My neighbor got a nagging wife and all she does is always fighting and even on the streets and he just stay quiet because he does not wanna create further drama. Is he in subordinate position? No, he just does not wanna waste his energy lol 

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My point is that NEITHER should be in subordinate position. 

And wanting dresses and jewellery is NOT what we as Singhnis should be focusing on. I don't wear any jewellery (aside from my wedding day which was given by my Mother in Law).  In fact I do not demand anything from my husband. And he does not demand anything from me. Yes marriage can work like this!!!

And the fallacy in your argument is that he can demand a 'sammich, while she is expected to 'obey' and make it for him while the decision to buy gifts is entirely up to him. 

Me, I HATE cooking. I don't mind cold stuff like salads but HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE cooking. Best gift my husband could give me is a domestic help to do the cooking and cleaning. Or for him to do equal share to remove some of the burden.  But I really don't know how to cook either so I doubt he would want anything I'd cook anyway (usually microwave premade forzen stuff). 

 

And no I did not say he would abuse his wife... I wasnt even talking about abuse... I said I hope that if a woman lays down her entire will and chains herself into subordinate position of 'obedience' beneath him that I HOPE he would never take advantage because giving up your will completely and totally to the will of another like that is probably the most difficult thing any human can do for another.  You are basically giving up ALL of your own hopes, desires, wishes, and your very will and freedom, so that he can have his way, his wishes, his desires etc. all the time. If someone does do that, gives up her will completely, so he can have his way in all things all the time... then he should NEVER EVER take advantage of that. And barking orders like making sammiches etc would definitely be seen as taking advantage.

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20 minutes ago, GurpreetKaur said:

 

My neighbor got a nagging wife and all she does is always fighting and even on the streets and he just stay quiet because he does not wanna create further drama. Is he in subordinate position? No, he just does not wanna waste his energy lol 

Ahhhh but if a husband nags his wife to do something, according to Bhagat Singh Ji she is expected to obey. She doesn't have the option to just be quiet. That's what men need apparently... if women to obey them in everything. So her ability to exercise her free will is gone in that scenario. And for any woman to willingly put themselves in that position, they are seriously in a vulnerable position. The balance is very very very fine line. It would behoove the husband not to demand at all, because it would be so easy to step over that line to taking advantage or even abuse. Demanding sammiches yes is overstepping. In the case I mentioned above... many men see it as no big deal for a woman to take their ejaculate in their mouths. They say no big deal it's not like its poison. So to him it was not abuse... to her it most definitely put her in a bad situation. She loves her husband, but feels like a prisoner.  

The reason she was trapped and could not do anything? The Christian hard core teaching of wifely submission... she was goaded by the Church. 

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I said women demand too. no woman give up her will completely to a man when she's is not receiving love. Those are extreme situations where men are abuser and women are just playing along. If a man loves me, I will do anything for him and if he loves me he won't abuse me lol. plus when people are in love they ready to do anything for the one they love, nobody care about rights or no rights lol. I don't know, I gotta get married first and then I will be able to have a discussion. It's like I don't know what orange tastes like and I am defining it lol.

I retire too I think  just like ragmaala ji and getting back to bhagti lol.

 

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