Sukha Maryada (use of Marijuana/Cannabis)

[Mooorakh]

3 hours ago, paapiman said:

Sri Satguru jee might have used Cannabis as a medical supplement too.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Again.. Pls correct yourselves ONLY as medicinal supplements and that too on others. 

 

4 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

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I just think that Panjabi culture used these things in various ways outside of getting off your head.

And I understand that we have a serious chittah problem in Panjab, but I think those fuddhus would do it regardless of what any old granth says.  

See thas my point of 'larai' is - why post such things on a forum where many sikhs and non sikhs visit to give them a wrong impression of your own Guru Sahibs quoting these false stories about Guruji. He's Sarab kala samarthan he wouldn't need these things and reading this kind of stuff may let people relate those ' chittaah fudus to my Guru Sahib' - we can't let that happen. Pls ask him to remove these false stories mentioning Guru Sahib consumed these things for refreshment, power etc

[GurjantGnostic]

13 minutes ago, Mooorakh said:

Again.. Pls correct yourselves ONLY as medicinal supplements and that too on others. 

 

See thas my point of 'larai' is - why post such things on a forum where many sikhs and non sikhs visit to give them a wrong impression of your own Guru Sahibs quoting these false stories about Guruji. He's Sarab kala samarthan he wouldn't need these things and reading this kind of stuff may let people relate those ' chittaah fudus to my Guru Sahib' - we can't let that happen. Pls ask him to remove these false stories mentioning Guru Sahib consumed these things for refreshment, power etc

Yes Veer Ji. For the record I don't touch opiates with a ten foot pole and I recommend the same to anyone but the maimed or dying.

I read the posts as well as I could in passing. It seemed more to reference use of certain things in the Paanth, the requisition of things for the Fauj, and a personal anecdote about Sukha which doesn't offend me. 

I am interested about the sources but have not had time to read up on them. 

I think the Guru Sahiban having Afeem for their Fauj in war and using it are two different things.  

[mahanpaapi]

 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, mahanpaapi said:

 

 

That's about a particular sect that thought you could smoke your way to enlightenment. 

[dalsingh101]

48 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

That's about a particular sect that thought you could smoke your way to enlightenment. 

People keep quoting this without reading the whole shabad in context. 

Quote

 

Pls ask him to remove these false stories mentioning Guru Sahib consumed these things for refreshment, power etc

 

I'm actually interested in old texts, like I said before, I don't necessarily literally believe in them all, but I still think we should not hide them like you are suggesting. We've had enough of that already. 

 

BTW bhen ji, have you read this from an eye witness to the anglo-Sikh war?

 

[GurjantGnostic]

A quick aside on physical and emotional violence, and men and women. 

If we say that men excel in the physical and women the emotional. I would caution women to not threaten, or engage in, violence with men. It's therefore also inappropriate to threaten it, and it puts men in a very uncomfortable position. 

Considering that emotionally women are a super highway, and men are a foot path, in the world of the brain and nervous system, it's unfair for women to abuse men emotionally also. That would be like a man using his forte, and beating on you. 

Ultimately we all need to respect each other. 

I think it's a little cheeky to both threaten somebody with violence, and complain to the admin in the same paragraph. 

[Mooorakh]

26 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

People keep quoting this without reading the whole shabad in context. 

I'm actually interested in old texts, like I said before, I don't necessarily literally believe in them all, but I still think we should not hide them like you are suggesting. We've had enough of that already. 

 

BTW bhen ji, have you read this from an eye witness to the anglo-Sikh war?

 

I am aware that you are interested in old writings and texts so you must be knowing how they were altered many times to finish n defame sikhi...YOU AGREED THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THEM SO Y SUPPORTING THE WRONG..

Also please compare -  what you have posted to what has been posted by paapiman. You are mentioning its use as a medicine when a sikh is hurt in the jung and he is mentioning it as a source of strength - to keep sikhs in bliss -- really? 

As for @GurjantGnostic one more time please read properly before commenting- #1. there's no point in supporting what u haven't read 

#2 there's no point in me answering to a passersby comment as it was quoted above by you. 

[paapiman]

46 minutes ago, Mooorakh said:

Also please compare -  what you have posted to what has been posted by paapiman. You are mentioning its use as a medicine when a sikh is hurt in the jung and he is mentioning it as a source of strength - to keep sikhs in bliss -- really? 

Those historical texts were not written by Daas. If you are not interested in studying them, that's your choice.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[GurjantGnostic]

59 minutes ago, Mooorakh said:

I am aware that you are interested in old writings and texts so you must be knowing how they were altered many times to finish n defame sikhi...YOU AGREED THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THEM SO Y SUPPORTING THE WRONG..

Also please compare -  what you have posted to what has been posted by paapiman. You are mentioning its use as a medicine when a sikh is hurt in the jung and he is mentioning it as a source of strength - to keep sikhs in bliss -- really? 

As for @GurjantGnostic one more time please read properly before commenting- #1. there's no point in supporting what u haven't read 

#2 there's no point in me answering to a passersby comment as it was quoted above by you. 

Oh okay. Charmer on all fronts. Convenient for you. 

I'm just gonna say it. You don't smell right. 

Here's some traits so far. 

Abuse a member and call on admin in the same breath. 

Try and silence a member on a platform specifically for discourse on these subjects. 

Avoid all questions.

Show absolutely no social grace. 

Show no personal accountability for your Krodh. 

It's okay. I find people like you fascinating. We can be besties. 

[mahanpaapi]

[mahanpaapi]

 

 

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, Mooorakh said:

I am aware that you are interested in old writings and texts so you must be knowing how they were altered many times to finish n defame sikhi...YOU AGREED THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THEM SO Y SUPPORTING THE WRONG..

 

I still want to read what they say. We've had more than a century of colonial era Sikhs hiding old texts because they weren't comfortable with the contents, I'm not going to support the continuation of that.  I'm actually strongly against that.

Plus I don't think they were all altered like you say, I think some things in the past weren't a big issue, like they started to become in the colonial era - like Dasam Granth, sukha. Even the jhatka 'controversy' seems like a modern one too. Plus looking at puratan rahits, it becomes obvious that people had differing opinions on certain things. Certainly some people were hardcore against using psychotropics, but some people weren't. Some were vegetarian some weren't. 

 

 

Quote

Also please compare -  what you have posted to what has been posted by paapiman. You are mentioning its use as a medicine when a sikh is hurt in the jung and he is mentioning it as a source of strength - to keep sikhs in bliss -- really? 

Rattan Singh Bhangu also says the same thing. I think sukha was also used as a relaxant and anti depressant by some Sikh warriors in the past. I think that's where the 'bliss' thing gets confused. 

Plus Panjabi juts have been using these things for a long time. That all being said, I think drug addiction is a problem in society, and it should be faced and fully understood and addiction treated as a health/psychological issue, rather than a criminal one. Plus I think you should realise that chittah (heroin) is different to the raw (and hence less processed) afeem. 

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, mahanpaapi said:

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IMHO bro, the above video should have been posted in the other thread, where we are discussing about meat.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

Final lines of Sri Dasam Guru Granth Saab jee:

Quote

ਬਿਦਿਹ ਸਾਕੀਯਾ ਸਾਗ਼ਰੇ ਸਬਜ਼ ਗੂੰ ॥ ਕਿ ਮਾਰਾ ਬਕਾਰਸਤ ਜੰਗ ਅੰਦਰੂੰ ॥

Oh bartender ! Pour me that green-coloured drink [Cannabis] ! That which will be helpful for me in the battle !

 

ਲਬਾਲਬ ਬਕੁਨ ਦਮ ਬਦਮ ਨੋਸ਼ ਕੁਨ॥ ਗ਼ਮੇ ਹਰ ਦੁਆਲਮ ਫ਼ਰਾਮੋਸ਼ ਕੁਨ ॥

Keep it filled up to the brim ! So I may forever continue to drink it and forget the pains of both worlds [here and the hereafter] !

Unquote[1]

[1] - Final Lines of Dasam Guru Granth Sahib (manglacharan.com)

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[seattlesingh]

 

Shaheedi Degh de Salok | Bhai Gurpratap Singh Ji Hazur Sahib | @Khalsa 1699

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnQkMDPCyfM

[paapiman]

The below is from Bhai Desa Singh Rehatnama.

Please read the First and Second lines in the image below:

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

2 minutes ago, paapiman said:

The below is from Bhai Desa Singh Rehatnama.

Please read the First and Second lines in the image below:

 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

@dalsingh101

The above Rehatnama mentions the quantity of Afeem and Bhang to take. It also says, anything more than the specified quantities will lead to pain.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

@dalsingh101

1 ਮਾਸਾ = ਅੱਠ ਰੱਤੀ ਭਰ ਤੋਲ

1 ਰੱਤੀ = ਅੱਠ ਚਾਵਲ ਭਰ ਤੋਲ

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Ragmaala]

What is the practical implications of Sukha/Bhang/Marijuana/Afeem particularly for Sikhs/Singhs in today’s time? I can barely find any.

 I can understand that there is maryada of 5 leaves of Marijuana in huge bowl rose/almond/ shardai nutritious drink. But besides that I don’t see much use beyond that. 
 

Talking about medicine, we already have high quality morphine, opiods, ketamine etc for people with surgeries post-operatively, palliative care for cancer patients, and pain killers if there is a war/battle.

If a Singh/Sikh is pakka nitnemi, naam abhiyaasi, and follows rehit, he doesn’t need anti depressants in form of cannabis.

If Afeem and Bhang is promoted in todays time, even though they were used in medicine form in past which is absolutely fair, it will invariably lead to recreation and abuse, and normalize its use in our minds. Our mind is very clever and cunning, it was used by singhs in past, why can’t I use it ? Start from small quantity and leading to abuse.

One needs to have a very disciplined, and focused mind to exercise caution. Even the modern medicinal forms are heavily abused. Remember people started abusing iodex and cough syrups. 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, Ragmaala said:

What is the practical implications of Sukha/Bhang/Marijuana/Afeem particularly for Sikhs/Singhs in today’s time? I can barely find any.

 I can understand that there is maryada of 5 leaves of Marijuana in huge bowl rose/almond/ shardai nutritious drink. But besides that I don’t see much use beyond that. 
 

Talking about medicine, we already have high quality morphine, opiods, ketamine etc for people with surgeries post-operatively, palliative care for cancer patients, and pain killers if there is a war/battle.

If a Singh/Sikh is pakka nitnemi, naam abhiyaasi, and follows rehit, he doesn’t need anti depressants in form of cannabis.

If Afeem and Bhang is promoted in todays time, even though they were used in medicine form in past which is absolutely fair, it will invariably lead to recreation and abuse, and normalize its use in our minds. Our mind is very clever and cunning, it was used by singhs in past, why can’t I use it ? Start from small quantity and leading to abuse.

One needs to have a very disciplined, and focused mind to exercise caution. Even the modern medicinal forms are heavily abused. Remember people started abusing iodex and cough syrups. 

What is this recreational abuse you all keep talking about?

The reason to use Sukha is the same today as it has been since Satyug bro. 

In what way is pharma better than afeem that it's made from? Everything you listed except the ketamine is opium. 

How "modern" is Kalyug? So how modern is Kalyugi medicine?

http://www.franthony.com/blog/why-do-we-feel-so-bad-about-feeling-good

You know Sukha use prevents drug addictions and can be used to treat drug addiction? That it has basically no counter indications, that it's linked to treating countless illness? That some people's bodies don't make the proper endocannabinoids? That it comes in many non psychoactive forms and the pyschoactive forms are fine? That none of the man made isolations result in the same quality medicine?

I think a healthier question to ask yourself is where did my aversion to Sukha come from?

If imperials that destroy culture and commit genocide use alcohol, promote alcohol, why are they anti cannabis?

It isn't for your benefit I'll tell you that. 

How is it that anybody who was anybody in the history of this planet used hemp, and since being villified less than a hundred years ago we've been left parroting their bullshit?

Even has you questioning your Guru bro? That's some heavy propoganda Ji and you're carrying it around. And I bet if you look into your mind you'll see you didn't even intend to pick up that burden of ignorance. 

Why does every culture of this world have a sacred name for cannabis? And link it not only with health but aiding in the focus on the spirit? Look at the word Sukha itself. 

You know what speed addicts and heroin junkies call their own drug of choice? Shit. 

[GurjantGnostic]

When your kids hit teenage years and your reefer madness has put everything in the same category it will have disasterous effects. 

The Guru Sahiban made no mistakes, and including use of Sukha is no mistake. 

So if you're reefer mad, every time you see any alcohol or drug use in your community, you can thank yourself for doing the imperial machines work for them. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Oh and antidepressants...have you read the side effects of those? Lol. But it's pharma so you're cool with it because you're one of their sheep. They can't wait for you to pay them to kill you slowly. Lol. 

All of your sickness...is big business.

[GurjantGnostic]

America spear headed reefer madness. The war on drugs is enslaving the planet and putting money in all the wrong hands. 

This started after prohibition, for two reasons. Chemical textile companies that have killed the planet and us with their fake fibers wanted to make money. And recently unemployed prohibition cops needed a new racket and only black folk were using reefer in America, so guess what winds up illegal?

Everybody wins. White supremacy, the drug dealers aka the government, the greedy corporations. Everybody wins but you. Who dies from the teflon or the pharma. Content with the wasp sin mentality you've been sold. 

[GurjantGnostic]

"What's the practical implications for practicing white colonialism for today's Sikhs?"  is a better question bro. 

Modernity is a lie bro. How is today different than five hundred years ago? Different than Satyug? We aren't more modern. One things are timeless. Two, they used to be far more advanced. 

 

What our Guru Sahiban taught was timeless from the highest consciousness. 

 

So why did they have Degh Sevadars?

 

So why are you so stuck against them serving Degh?

 

The answer is in your white mind that they taught to you your whole life. 

 

They don't cut your tongue out and replace it with theirs for no reason. They don't eliminate culture for no reason. They want their world to make sense to you while they destroy it. And it works. They have you denying your culture, your history, in favor of their recent and unfounded narrative. 

 

You beleive the news Pundit. Instead of Ithias.

[dalsingh101]

3 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

What is the practical implications of Sukha/Bhang/Marijuana/Afeem particularly for Sikhs/Singhs in today’s time? I can barely find any.

 I can understand that there is maryada of 5 leaves of Marijuana in huge bowl rose/almond/ shardai nutritious drink. But besides that I don’t see much use beyond that. 
 

Talking about medicine, we already have high quality morphine, opiods, ketamine etc for people with surgeries post-operatively, palliative care for cancer patients, and pain killers if there is a war/battle. 

I spoke to a high ranking Taksali giani a few years ago, he told me that he believed pharmaceuticals resolve one ailment of the body but then gives rise to two others in their place. 

I think  Sukha/Bhang/Marijuana/Afeem has lots of implications for modern Sikhs myself. First let me outline an economic consideration. All we hear is about farmers grief in Panjab, but these plants can be lucrative cash crops. The sukha industry is growing into an international multi-billion dollar one, and we know afeem is used in lots of medications. That's just one aspect. Being indigenous plants, Panjab is perfect to exploit this. 

Also, it makes sense to explore, understand and expand on your own indigenous culture's knowledge. On a cultural level, it is practically retarded of our people to jettison their own moorings because of imposed colonial thinking. What's happened now, is that other cultures are benefitting from these things that our community understood previously, whilst we are not (I'm talking on multiple levels). The point about us understanding and developing our own culture and knowledge is an important one. It'd be good to relieve dependency on foreign sources for our medicinal needs as well as develop our own knowledge with the aid of modern tech that can help analyse compounds better than before.  

 

Quote

If a Singh/Sikh is pakka nitnemi, naam abhiyaasi, and follows rehit, he doesn’t need anti depressants in form of cannabis.

Our understanding of a previously unknown but core part of our biology (the endocannabinoid system) is near enough zero. The share range of cannabinoids (there are loads at least 60 +), and terpenes the plant contains (only of which a miniscule amount are intoxicating) can lead to a next level of understanding of human (as well as general mammalian) biology. Isn't this important?

Plus in your above statement, you have made it a very individual perspective. As a quom/panth, we will have medical and psychological issues just like most other communities. Not all of our society will be as you've described above. Plus I've met a few Amritdhari Sikhs who've been taking anti-depressants or anti-psychotics for various reasons over the years. So no, they aren't immune to the human condition.     

Quote

If Afeem and Bhang is promoted in todays time, even though they were used in medicine form in past which is absolutely fair, it will invariably lead to recreation and abuse, and normalize its use in our minds. Our mind is very clever and cunning, it was used by singhs in past, why can’t I use it ? Start from small quantity and leading to abuse.

One needs to have a very disciplined, and focused mind to exercise caution. Even the modern medicinal forms are heavily abused. Remember people started abusing iodex and cough syrups. 

It's the same with food. You make that available, and some people indulge to an excess, to the point of becoming morbidly obese.  There is a point about being able to understand your ithihaas and subeachaar without being influenced by outsiders. Plus some people will do what you're saying, but those people would've probably found an excuse to do it regardless of that anyway.  I know western style prohibition (war on drugs) is a complete failure, so that demonising and criminalising approach doesn't work. And you can go to Panjab itself and see that. You can see the rampant Panjabi drug dealing gangs in Canada to see that too. You can see umpteen junkies all over Southall to see that too. 

The question is: Just what was our cultures attitude towards these commonly available plants (and their derived compounds) previous to white interference? Some of us suspect that the original attitude was less detrimental to our community (and the world!) than the western model we follow today.