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Sukha Maryada (use of Marijuana/Cannabis)


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5 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

What is this recreational abuse you all keep talking about?

I have seen People in Nihang Bana , getting high, swearing and abusing, lying around all day, doing beadbi of bana etc

As a kid I have seen weed growing around in pind, villagers getting high on it , staying in poor conditions, not doing anything with their lives etc

I have not seen anyone using sukha as a medicine so far, only a means of getting high and getting Nasha.

And Gurmat is very straightforward on Nasha. It could be a Nasha of sukha, afeem, modern pharmaceutical, food, wealth or power. 

All Nasha is Anti Gurmat.

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23 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

I have not seen anyone using sukha as a medicine so far, only a means of getting high and getting Nasha.

Have you done Sangat of Hajuriye Singhs?

They probably use Sukhnidhaan, as a supplement. Bhog of Sukhnidhaan is done at Sri Hajur saab.

Gyani Inderjit Singh jee Raqbewale probably grew up in that area. He mentioned something about it in his katha. If you drink Sukha (as prepared at Sri Hajur saab), there is probably no Nasha in it. They probably put very little Sukha in it.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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19 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Have you done Sangat of Hajuriye Singhs?

They probably use Sukhnidhaan, as a supplement. Bhog of Sukhnidhaan is done at Sri Hajur saab.

Gyani Inderjit Singh jee Raqbewale probably grew up in that area. He mentioned something about it in his katha. If you drink Sukha (as prepared at Sri Hajur saab), there is probably no Nasha in it. They probably put very little Sukha in it.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I have witnessed the maryada at Hazur Sahib. They give sukhnidhan prashad near the bunga downstairs.  

 When we were near the godavri, we came across a hazuri singh. He definitely seemed high, red eyes etc. Not sure if it was nasha of sukha or naam khumari.

Shardai when prepared properly is very nutritious and soothing for brain, and as I said no more than 5 leaves for maryada. But when there is no almonds, pepper, poppy seeds, rose, etc and just pure sukha. Thats Nasha . Like they have bhang on shivratri melas and people going high and crazy.

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On 7/29/2021 at 9:41 PM, Ragmaala said:

I have seen People in Nihang Bana , getting high, swearing and abusing, lying around all day, doing beadbi of bana etc

As a kid I have seen weed growing around in pind, villagers getting high on it , staying in poor conditions, not doing anything with their lives etc

I have not seen anyone using sukha as a medicine so far, only a means of getting high and getting Nasha.

I full on see where you're coming from with the above, but let me add another dimension. I know of a few people who have multiple sclerosis, and they use it. Their condition is serious, and it not only helps alleviates the symptoms, but they say it also helps them to mentally deal with being stuck in a wheelchair.  I know people who have psychotic violent tendencies who use it to make themselves less violent. I know people with nerve damage who use it to alleviate symptoms of that. I know people who struggle to eat, who use it to ramp up their hunger, and who looked like concentration camp survivors beforehand. 

Quote

 

And Gurmat is very straightforward on Nasha. It could be a Nasha of sukha, afeem, modern pharmaceutical, food, wealth or power. 

All Nasha is Anti Gurmat.

 

How would you explain umpteen references including (if Sri Gursobha is what it is purported to be), an account contemporary to dasmesh pita explicitly describing mounted Singhs carrying afeem? How do you explain the variance in the old extant rahits on the topic?

BTW are you trying to say that when a thing is used in one way, it becomes a 'nasha' but the same thing used in another way, isn't nasha?   

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6 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

You know Sukha use prevents drug addictions and can be used to treat drug addiction? That it has basically no counter indications, that it's linked to treating countless illness? That some people's bodies don't make the proper endocannabinoids? That it comes in many non psychoactive forms and the pyschoactive forms are fine? That none of the man made isolations result in the same quality medicine?

If you use Sukha as a medicine, in controlled form, to help someone get rid of their afeem, alcohol or some other addiction, that’s fair. Just don’t develop dependency on Sukha afterwards. Dependency on external means is not Gurmat imo.

Methadone is used to help with heroin addiction and eventually come off it. Benzodiazepines are used to help with delirium tremens when people suddenly come off alcohol. But if someone develops dependency on methadone and bzds, thats defeating the original purpose.

Our brain has cannaboid receptors. If you use external cannabis, you will develop tolerance and ultimate fry them out. The way to activate many unknown pleasure receptors in our brain is through Naam Rassa via Japa techniques. The effect will be everlasting without any side effects. 

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22 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

BTW are you trying to say that when a thing is used in one way, it becomes a 'nasha' but the same thing used in another way, isn't nasha? 

Yes. 
Anything that makes your mind unstable, creates vikaar, and develops your dependency upon it is a form of Nasha. 
In essence, my point is we have to exercise greater caution with things that have a higher potential of abuse, some greater than others. They might have been used as medicine in past, but if they are available in abundance and unregulated, people can use past examples to normalize their use and knowing the human mind , start abusing it.

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6 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I think a healthier question to ask yourself is where did my aversion to Sukha come from?

My Experiences as a kid , seeing people abusing it, villagers, fake nihangs doing beadbi of bana, people abusing it on shivratri melas, eating bhang pkaode, developing diarrhea and headaches etc. 
 

Understanding of Gurmat being against any Nasha, ranging from sukha, alcohol, afem, certain diets, wealth and power.

reading jivans of great mahapurush from various sampardas such as Nanaksar, Taksal, Rara Sahib, Bidhi Chand, etc and them not promoting any use of Sukha.

And the jivan of most recent Shaheed Sant Jarnail Singh Ji , how he lived his life and his views on these topics.

All the above form my ideas, and  understanding.

The whites or imperial culture has no effect on me. I dont know what’s reefer madness. 
 

I am  not fan of modern pharmaceuticals  or anti depressants. They are temporary fix only. And I am aware of all their side effects and their vicious cycle.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

full on see where you're coming from with the above, but let me add another dimension. I know of a few people who have multiple sclerosis, and they use it. There condition is serious, and it not only helps alleviates the symptoms, but they say it also helps them to mentally deal with being stuck in a wheelchair.  I know people who have psychotic violent tendencies who use it to make themselves less violent. I know people with nerve damage who use it to alleviate symptoms of that. I know people who struggle to eat, who use it to ramp up their hunger, and who looked like concentration camp survivors beforehand. 

That’s fair , when used as a medicine. Thc oil is used to help with concussion symptoms
 

My only issue is taking sukha, just for fun, without any medical indications. I am not talking about Sukhnidhan which has no nasha and is actually a nutritious drink.

but anything for the purpose of making you high, without an absolute necessity,imo is not Gurmat.

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12 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

Yes. 
Anything that makes your mind unstable, creates vikaar, and develops your dependency upon it is a form of Nasha. 
In essence, my point is we have to exercise greater caution with things that have a higher potential of abuse, some greater than others. They might have been used as medicine in past, but if they are available in abundance and unregulated, people can use past examples to normalize their use and knowing the human mind , start abusing it.

Absolutely. I think this is unavoidable to some extent though. Just because some people are going to abuse something, doesn't mean we should not use it for a greater good for many. 

Yes, we should have effective educational campaigns and support apparatus for addicts too. 

Like I said, prohibition has not prevented mass addiction and just made very evil people mega rich. Just the availability of substances doesn't mean people will automatically take it. My grandparents were around it and never took it.   

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7 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

I am not talking about Sukhnidhan which has no nasha and is actually a nutritious drink.

Sukhnidhaan has Sukha in it, in addition to Almonds, Black pepper, Poppy seeds, Melon seeds, Milk (maybe optional), Cardamom, etc.

When you just use the word "Shardai", that has no Nasha in it.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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1 hour ago, Ragmaala said:

Like they have bhang on shivratri melas and people going high and crazy.

Just out of interest, if you can be bothered. You sound like you grew up back home. I've never seen the above melas, what did you see in them? How were people acting when 'high and crazy'. 

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38 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

That’s fair , when used as a medicine. Thc oil is used to help with concussion symptoms
 

My only issue is taking sukha, just for fun, without any medical indications. I am not talking about Sukhnidhan which has no nasha and is actually a nutritious drink.

but anything for the purpose of making you high, without an absolute necessity,imo is not Gurmat.

Okay based on what Gurmat? 

Because you have an issue your Guru did not. 

And you've avoided whats been said...I guess to be purposefully obtuse?

 

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3 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

@GurjantGnostic i know you have done mushrooms in past, do you also smoke marijuana? I see you are very defensive and feel hurt.

you have posted a lot, kind of reminds me of a manic episode.
 

I will reply when I get time , waste my energy in putting my points across lol

Nice deflection bro. No respect given for that response. 

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So your understanding and respect for the Guru Sahiban, Gurbani, and Shaheed Singhs is so great, that rather than simply answer the questions, you decided to resort to argument ad hominem. Using things I said truthfully and candidly about myself.  Okay. 

I've done a lot of things you haven't not just mushrooms. I've been around a lot of things you haven't. I've done things for people you haven't and suffered consequences.

And so I speak not only from a perspective of intense study, but direct experience with these things, and oddly enough seem able to reference Gurbani and Ithias etc myself. I've worked hard to come in through the back, through the basement. 

I'm a very busy person and this forum serves as my Sangat largely. I often have to post then come back and post in short bursts. 

I often have to write paragraphs at a time. 

I back up what I say however and say what I mean. 

For example how do you deal with pain resulting from injuries you sustained protecting people? Oh right. You probably don't have that pain. So maybe you're not the best judge about what people need to eat to thrive and Jaap Naam. And apparently incapable of refuting anything I've said with Gurmat. 

You were trained in combat medicine and served in what military? Exactly bro. 

Not effected by colinialism. Lol bro. 

Even the colonials are effected by colonialism. You have to see and know how is the thing. 

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4 hours ago, paapiman said:

@GurjantGnostic - Bro, have you tried Alcohol in the past? If yes, can you please elaborate on the differences between the effect of Alcohol verses that of Cannabis?

Thanks a lot

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Alcohol is the lowest substance  on this planet. It is literally the devils Amrit. It will take everything from you slowly or fast. It is the mother of all other addiction. It's as addictive and destructive as crack or heroin, and is more deadly because of the lies that surround it. I won't even kick an empty bottle with my foot and I used to sell it professionally for years and drink it myself. Many years I avoided it because I sold it and doing both is dangerous, but inevitably it wound up with its hooks in me too. Hard work alone will not save you, you must beg Akal for freedom, that many are not given, and any amount of drinking can kill you, destroy your life, or get you addicted. I wish I'd never touched a drop of it. And Sukha is part of how I got clear of it. Naam, Kirpa, Sukha. 

Sukha is in a class alone. It doesn't do the imaginary things Ragmaala says it does. 

Nor does methodone work like he thinks. 

Although some of his posts I missed are slightly better, he's too ignorant to realize he's ignorant. 

I live in a high desert oasis of drugs, gambling, prostitution and violence. 

I have seen for a long time now the exact effect various drugs actaully have on people over time. I've seen addicts of every type. I've seen what it takes to get them sober, if it's even possible, And the Sukha is a vitamin that frees people. 

Alcohol is the opposite. I don't even like touching a product that has alcohol in it. It's that foul. 

Alcohol will make you black out, puts you at risk ot be victimized while you're too drunk to walk etc, it will have you doing physically mentally impaired things, and you quickly become dependent on it. And you'll act like an absolute idiot. You might as well be giving control of yourself to spirits to live your life for you. Alcohol is a date rape drug you give yourself. Drinking is attempted suicide. 

Sukha just relaxes you, and restores a natural relationship with hunger, thirst, and rest. It's God given medicine of the highest order. 

If somebody is producing their own cannabinoids internally and don't want or need it just don't use it. Problem is people want to shame or limit what other people can do, or throw them in jail for life for taking their vitamins. 

Alcohol is the single most stupid drug on this planet. Even tweakers and coke heads laugh at drunks bro. 

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On the subject of methadone. Only people brainwahed by the war on drugs think methadone works, or would suggest methadone, it's worse than the heroin. The best eay to wean junkies off of heron is with heron. In decreasing doses. 

Only cruel idiots brainwashed by the war on drugs would even suggest methadone as an alternative. 

Amazingly Ragmaala is totally unaffected by the dominant consciousness of the planet at this time, and yet somehow parrots their lies word for word. 

We still have people serving life here for an herb that is now sold over the counter, but what's there for me to be upset about? It's not like his brand of ignorance has ruined lives and been used as imperial weapon of genocide. Oh wait. 

I have my degree in smelling out deangerous wasp thinking and they have left their stench on Sikhi. 

I appreciate you digging for the Truth about the Paanth @paapiman

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If you want the truth about any drug I will tell you from my first hand experience or what I've witnessed first hand over decades. 

Combining practicality with medical information. 

Coke and alcohol for example make cocaldahyde or cocaethylene, inside your body, which is a far more deadly, and addictive chemical and why you often see coke and alcohol used together. People are internally making a third drug out of two drugs. 

In order for them to get clean. They will have to want it beyond wanting, pray sincerely repeatedly, introduce new habits, Sukha, and Mate or Kratom. And then increase prayer, healthy activity, the catalyst herbs, and eliminate the dangerous ones. Then the person can work off the safer herbs and use Sukha if they still need. 

If someone has no desire for anything, their endocannabinoidal system is working they can just keep on doing them. 

But for people who have an inbalance they can't fix, for people who wish to try something but want it to be safe in highschool while other people do the really dumb studf, for people that need a gate out of addiction, Sukha is for you. 

It's no mistake the Guru Sahiban promoted its use in the Paanth. 

It's literally a cure all to prevent and treat addiction as well as has a variety of health and nutritional benefits. 

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Best way to know the truth of a drug is see the homeless person it creates and their state. Alcoholics have less dignity and health than junkies, coke heads or tweakers. 

Only Sukha doesn't create homeless people. Or behaviors that get you locked up. The only downside to Sukha is the reefer madness that assails it. So it's artificially negative only because of mans laws and ignorance. 

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