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Please don't use my real name


CdnSikhGirl

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Understand this is a forum. People will have disagreements. 

I don't care if any of you nindya my alias till the cows come home but please I ask don't use my real name.

I have had to change my alias on here already due to possible damage in my real life because of member chatanga.  I know even with strong emotions etc on here that none of you want to actually hurt someone's real life.  If you do then you are not very nice person. Please leave forum things to forum things. 

Again if you want to nindya me please nindya my forum personality and leave my real life alone. I am sure you would not like it if someone did it to you. The same goes for anyone else on here. It's not funny and it's not a joke. 

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I wasn't going to register but I did because this has gone way too far. Nothing she has ever done has been despicable. All she has ever done was promoted equality of Singhs and Kaurs.  If you think that is despicable then it tells way more about you than her. All I have seen is you going on and on and on about her.  Over something stupid since last year! You sent a PM trying to get her to leave the forum because you dont agree with gender equality and wanted to shut her up.  Then when she told everyone what you did, you went on a tirade ever since calling her a liar because she paraphrased your PM and somehow you think asking someone to leave is ok! YOUR conduct is what was despicable! 

And though I reserve judgement on dasam granth, try just for once, looking at it from the side of a Kaur.  Take yourself off your high male pedestal for a moment (and before you accuse me I am also male), just look at it from their point of view. If the tables were reversed and many many pages in what you are being told is a holy book from our Guru, is painting your entire gender as immoral, deceivers and not to be trusted. And then add on top of that other members like paapiman with his backward thinking of women, members on here saying women can't do as much seva as us because they have periods, members saying that women have lower status than their husbands, rhetnamas saying that women are never to be trusted, paapimans stupidity saying that women should bow to men and that men deserve more respect.  Now how does it feel to be the gender thats being attacked? Almost maliciously and with hatred? I am willing to bet that inside that abhorrent hateful brain of yours, you are jumping for joy and thanking Waheguru for being born a male.  

This site and most members on here I bet would never say any of these things to their Mother! 

You should all be ashamed (not just chatanga)! You are not Singhs! How can you believe our Gurus taught these things about women?  And then condemn a female for speaking against it! Sikhi does not teach hatred of women, but here you have it! Chatanga you as a Singh are the one who instead of reassuring her that women are treated equally in Sikhi, choose to continually put female gender down and then continue to do call her every name in the book, simply because she challenged the idea that women could somehow be equal status to men in Sikhi and challenged what looks very obviously like it paints women in a huge low light?  You can't deny that dasam granth overtly looks like it puts down the entire female gender! Why don't YOU stop the blame game and all Singhs, and start realizing that much of the immorality is caused by Singhs not Kaurs!  I know many more Singhs who commit adultery, watch porn, drinking, etc than women. And I know Singhs who have seduced women (including goris) to sleep with them and then think its a joke.

Just drop it! You are making yourself look like a retard!  And you are only further making this site look bad. From the outside it looks like anyone who suggests women should have any semblance of equality in Sikhi will be torn into pieces and called the lowest.  

Get a life!

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I already said I don't care if they nindya me on my alias. I assume from your post chatanga replied? I can't see his responses because I have blocked that member. But I know he still nindyas me all the time because I see posts like your referencing him. Please do me a favour and don't quote him as I won't give him the satisfaction of reading his drivel anymore.  And thanks for the support. However I am hoping my sacrifice will make things better for females in future. In other words I am taking the hit so others won't have to down the road. 

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Ok I wont but trying to be a martyr on here for womens cause is a useless endeavour. Its obvious most of them hate women and will never change their mind. I know you are a gori convert, I have lot of respect, just know that most Sikhs are not like these guys.

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6 minutes ago, paapiman said:

IMHO, most people on this forum respect women.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I have seen some of your own quotes bro and you clearly don't.  I mean respect on equal level. Not respect as a lower being. Your Mother is not a lower human than you. She doesn't deserve less out of life than you do.  But some of the quotes you have posted about women being downgrades to men, that we shouldn't trust women those are wrong. Most of the people I know not to trust are all my own gender and its embarrassing.   

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For chatanga and paapiman both please do something for me. 

Imagine for a moment, that all our Gurus were Female.  And that one of our religion's holy books had over 600 pages devoted to stories that make your gender (male) look completely immoral and deceitful. Now imagine, that majority of the members on here (all female of course) post things like men are lower status than women, men can never initiate people into the Khalsa as one of the five (who of course were also all female in the original five), men when they marry must see their wives as God (but of course the wives only have to see their husbands as followers who are expected to obey), oh, and you can't do certain seva because of a biological function that is central to your gender (let's say whenever you produce sperm) because its considered unclean, and at our religion's most holy place the most recognized by the world, you can't even sing kirtan there only women can.  Only women can do palki sahib seva there, or be granthi. Now lets look at historical rhetnamas some of which say women are never to trust men, even their own husbands. And lets skip to a few days ago some female members post about how men should never wear turbans (the one article that makes Sikhs stand out as Sikhs) because men have to be men and that of course is not to emmulate the form of our Gurus but to be different, lower.

Seriously please answer, how would that make you feel? 

I'm very sure you are reeling at the thought.  You would feel after all of that, that Sikhi and all the Kaurs on here are against your gender.  You would question if even our Gurus themselves were against you. I am very sure you would challenge the above in light of what Gurbani actually says. You would be no different than how CdnSikhGirl is approaching things.  Sure, many of our women remain passive and just endure it. But are they only enduring it because they know we, men, will fight tooth and nail to keep them in this lower position? It doesn't make it right at all. We should be following Gurbani not our desire to be better than women and control them. 

Seriously think about this.  You might laugh at the above.  But for women this is the reality. But this is NOT what I believe our Gurus taught. Yes our Gurus were male  form but they actually gave message of equality of females!  That means more than if they were females trying to say the same thing! 

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I agree we need to all keep to professional and respect each other!! 

But, do not attack Pita Ji's Bani. 

Sri Dasam Granth has been discussed in full effect...! 

If you don;t want to believe it is bani keep it to your self or set up a controlled thread. 

Sri Akal Thakht Sahib is clear on this issue! 

Countless Mahapurakhs and Gurmukh pyare have already explained Guru Maharaj's Dasam Granth is authentic! 

If you don't want to accept it that is your own opinion! 
 

 

matta-akal-takhat-sahib-2006

 

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27 minutes ago, Harjots8963 said:

I agree we need to all keep to professional and respect each other!! 

But, do not attack Pita Ji's Bani. 

Sri Dasam Granth has been discussed in full effect...! 

If you don;t want to believe it is bani keep it to your self or set up a controlled thread. 

Sri Akal Thakht Sahib is clear on this issue! 

Countless Mahapurakhs and Gurmukh pyare have already explained Guru Maharaj's Dasam Granth is authentic! 

If you don't want to accept it that is your own opinion! 

 

 

I am not saying its not authentic. What I am saying is try and understand where our sisters, Mothers, daughters are coming from.  If you were in their shoes and all you saw at every turn was negativity towards the female gender how would you take it?  Simple fact is, it is very hard to rectify to our own families that dasam granth is somehow not anti-female. Most families just pretend it doesn't exist and focus only on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.  Others have their wives bowing to their husbands because of the obvious difference in status.  

So let me ask you outright, going by the material we have available, what was our Guru's view of women (in general)? 

Now after you have your answer add to that, the extra things we put on women to give them less opportunities than us, what we expect of them in marriage, what some sants have actually said about women, less opportunities for seva, the fact that nearly all leadership in our religion is male dominated.  How do you honestly think any woman will feel (even if she doesn't say anything?) And you guys are wondering why a gori convert is becoming disheartened? When you are ripping her a new one for even questioning it, and you are all emphasizing a Sikhi where women have less rights than us.  It seems like you support a Sikhi where women are welcome, as long as they shut up remain quiet, accept they are lower than us, and never question anything that puts women down. Seriously is this what our Gurus wanted??

Go to any website on Sikhism online, and you will see every one states men and women are treated equally.  So why the big disparity? If we believe women are lesser beings, then why not come out and just say it? Why try to make Sikhi look like it treats them with equal respect when it doesn't? Better to be honest up front no? 

Anyway a good portion of my family do not believe that all of dasam granth is authentic.  In fact even the stories in charitropakhyan are rewritten from previous stories that already existed. That much we know.  And if Guru Gobind Singh did rewrite them, did he ever even intend them to be read by the masses? Or were they just a private collection? All we do know for sure, is that we are using them for more harm than good. 

And I find it funny you guys would support Akal Takht edict on this but then ignore Akal Takht's edict to include women as one of the Panj Pyaras!  You can't pick and choose which bits you want to follow! 

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4 minutes ago, JasperS said:
4 minutes ago, JasperS said:

 

I am not saying its not authentic. What I am saying is try and understand where our sisters, Mothers, daughters are coming from.  If you were in their shoes and all you saw at every turn was negativity towards the female gender how would you take it?  Simple fact is, it is very hard to rectify to our own families that dasam granth is somehow not anti-female. Most families just pretend it doesn't exist and focus only on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.  Others have their wives bowing to their husbands because of the obvious difference in status.  

So let me ask you outright, going by the material we have available, what was our Guru's view of women (in general)? 

Now after you have your answer add to that, the extra things we put on women to give them less opportunities than us, what we expect of them in marriage, what some sants have actually said about women, less opportunities for seva, the fact that nearly all leadership in our religion is male dominated.  How do you honestly think any woman will feel (even if she doesn't say anything?) And you guys are wondering why a gori convert is becoming disheartened? When you are ripping her a new one for even questioning it, and you are all emphasizing a Sikhi where women have less rights than us.  It seems like you support a Sikhi where women are welcome, as long as they shut up remain quiet, accept they are lower than us, and never question anything that puts women down. Seriously is this what our Gurus wanted??

Go to any website on Sikhism online, and you will see every one states men and women are treated equally.  So why the big disparity? If we believe women are lesser beings, then why not come out and just say it? Why try to make Sikhi look like it treats them with equal respect when it doesn't? 

Anyway a good portion of my family do not believe that all of dasam granth is authentic.  In fact even the stories in charitropakhyan are rewritten from previous stories that already existed. That much we know.  And if Guru Gobind Singh did rewrite them, did he ever even intend them to be read by the masses? Or were they just a private collection? All we do know for sure, is that we are using them for more harm than good. 

And I find it funny you guys would support Akal Takht edict on this but then ignore Akal Takht's edict to include women as one of the Panj Pyaras!  You can't pick and choose which bits you want to follow! 

I have engaged in some healthy debate with CdnSikhGirl before.... And you can ask her... We both kept it peaceful and professional.... We're just trying to learn here! 

Dasam granth anti female? 

First and foremost even before jumping into Dasam Granth we need to understand and explore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and english translations DO NOT DO JUSTICE!! That is why learning Gurmukhi is so important! 

Listen to complete Katha of Sri Charitropakhyan with a balanced view, if you truly want to believe it is anti-female! 
 

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7 hours ago, JasperS said:

If the tables were reversed and many many pages in what you are being told is a holy book from our Guru, is painting your entire gender as immoral, deceivers and not to be trusted. And then add on top of that other members like paapiman with his backward thinking of women, members on here saying women can't do as much seva as us because they have periods, members saying that women have lower status than their husbands, rhetnamas saying that women are never to be trusted, paapimans stupidity saying that women should bow to men and that men deserve more respect.  Now how does it feel to be the gender thats being attacked? Almost maliciously and with hatred? I am willing to bet that inside that abhorrent hateful brain of yours, you are jumping for joy and thanking Waheguru for being born a male.  

You are either ill informed, or purposely trying to twist stuff to make it sound misogynist.  e.g.

where does Dasam Granth 'paint the entire (female) gender as 'immoral, deceivers and not to be trusted'??? 

'pati parmeshvar' is a high spiritual concept, is not about subordinating women or flattering men.

im sure you can figure this out yourself if you stop trying to be so sensationalist.

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9 minutes ago, JasperS said:

 

I am not saying its not authentic. What I am saying is try and understand where our sisters, Mothers, daughters are coming from.  If you were in their shoes and all you saw at every turn was negativity towards the female gender how would you take it?  Simple fact is, it is very hard to rectify to our own families that dasam granth is somehow not anti-female. Most families just pretend it doesn't exist and focus only on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.  Others have their wives bowing to their husbands because of the obvious difference in status.  

So let me ask you outright, going by the material we have available, what was our Guru's view of women (in general)? 

Now after you have your answer add to that, the extra things we put on women to give them less opportunities than us, what we expect of them in marriage, what some sants have actually said about women, less opportunities for seva, the fact that nearly all leadership in our religion is male dominated.  How do you honestly think any woman will feel (even if she doesn't say anything?) And you guys are wondering why a gori convert is becoming disheartened? When you are ripping her a new one for even questioning it, and you are all emphasizing a Sikhi where women have less rights than us.  It seems like you support a Sikhi where women are welcome, as long as they shut up remain quiet, accept they are lower than us, and never question anything that puts women down. Seriously is this what our Gurus wanted??

Go to any website on Sikhism online, and you will see every one states men and women are treated equally.  So why the big disparity? If we believe women are lesser beings, then why not come out and just say it? Why try to make Sikhi look like it treats them with equal respect when it doesn't? 

Anyway a good portion of my family do not believe that all of dasam granth is authentic.  In fact even the stories in charitropakhyan are rewritten from previous stories that already existed. That much we know.  And if Guru Gobind Singh did rewrite them, did he ever even intend them to be read by the masses? Or were they just a private collection? All we do know for sure, is that we are using them for more harm than good. 

And I find it funny you guys would support Akal Takht edict on this but then ignore Akal Takht's edict to include women as one of the Panj Pyaras!  You can't pick and choose which bits you want to follow! 

In regards to ignoring SGPC edicat on women as Panj Pyare... I never said that it is not in the SGPC maryada! The points that I personally brought up was that Sant Ji said that women shouldn't be and it is the view of some sampardayes like Damdami Taksaal! 

If women want to be in the Panj Pyare where they follow SGPC Maryada MORE POWER TO THEM!! 

The point is we have bigger things to deal with in the panth....

Imagine if all these arguments threads we have about men vs women were replaced with actual productive threads! 

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17 minutes ago, Harjots8963 said:

In regards to ignoring SGPC edicat on women as Panj Pyare... I never said that it is not in the SGPC maryada! The points that I personally brought up was that Sant Ji said that women shouldn't be and it is the view of some sampardayes like Damdami Taksaal! 

If women want to be in the Panj Pyare where they follow SGPC Maryada MORE POWER TO THEM!! 

The point is we have bigger things to deal with in the panth....

Imagine if all these arguments threads we have about men vs women were replaced with actual productive threads! 

This is my point!  The fact that most of you think what they go through is not important enough to deal with!  Like I asked Paapiman and chatanga above, do the same. Put yourself in a hypothetical position where all the gurus were female, the first five were female, our main holy place only allowed females to do seva, one of our holy books is openly (apparently) anti male, you were told that a biological function that is an imperative part of being a man, was seen as dirty and unclean, and makes you unsuitable for seva because of it, in some sampradas you are told that upon marriage you have to see your spouse as God, and they only have to see you as a follower, historical rhetnamas telling women to never trust a man, even ones in your own family, members saying that men are downgrades to women bodies, that men are a part of human kind but are not quite human, people posting that since you obviously would not be happy in your male body you can recite sukhmani shaib to have a female body next time, nearly all the gurdwara management committees are female dominated, all granthis you see are females, most ragi jathas are females and only the female ones can perform at darbar sahib.  

Seriously, if it was only one thing, you might be able to get away saying its not important.  But seriously put yourself in their mindset for a minute.  You can't seriously say that you wouldn't feel helpless and mute.  And I am only trying to get you guys to understand what they are going through.  You might not care about what your sister or Mother are subjected to.  I care about mine!  And lastly, I don't think CdnSikhGirl deserves what she has been subjected to on here. You guys are seriously heartless! 

My point about Akal Takht was you showed the edict about dasam granth.  My point is that if you are using an Akal Takht edict to support your argument, then you can't ignore other things support by akal takht like women as part of the panj.  Otherwise you are cherrypicking.  Sant Ji also did not say women can't. He was saying if you listen with an open mind, he was saying that the result of no women volunteering that day was that no man would allow women to now.  He was not supporting keeping women from this seva. He was merely saying this is the result of no women having volunteered that day. As a result men will hold this against women, and this is why we have no women in the panj now.  The speech was actually about him saying women and men are equal in Sikhi and deserve equal seva. It was not an instruction by Sant Ji to keep women from the Panj. But that is how it was taken. Also Sants don't speak for the whole panth anyway.  But listen to Sant Ji's speech again and with an open mind and you will see what I mean.  Not the english translation subtitles but listen to the original.

It was like Christians in the bible it says that God said to Eve as a result of their sin in eden, that her husband would rule over her. Many have taken it to mean that it was an instruction or punishment approved by God that men would rule over women. When instead if you read it closely what it is saying is that due to sin or the fallen state, men would rule over women.  It wasn't however commanded by or even endorsed by God. (I understand its a different religion but its a good comparison since its related and I took theology in Uni).  

 

 

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Lol no.


Sant Ji is not holding anything against women.... He provided reasoning... and justified the view... Whether personally one accepts it, it is up to them.... 

CdnSikhGirl Ji does the same as Pappiman Ji and Chatanga Ji... She won't let go of the subject either.... It is a two way street. 

I have never attacked CdnSikhGirl Ji nor anyone else here... Nor will I... when you say "you guys" you are making it seem like the situation is CdnSikhGirl vs the whole forum... When the conflict is between her and Chatange and one or two other members.... 

 

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27 minutes ago, Harjots8963 said:

Lol no.


Sant Ji is not holding anything against women.... He provided reasoning... and justified the view... Whether personally one accepts it, it is up to them.... 

CdnSikhGirl Ji does the same as Pappiman Ji and Chatanga Ji... She won't let go of the subject either.... It is a two way street. 

I have never attacked CdnSikhGirl Ji nor anyone else here... Nor will I... when you say "you guys" you are making it seem like the situation is CdnSikhGirl vs the whole forum... When the conflict is between her and Chatange and one or two other members.... 

 

You are correct Sant Ji is not holding anything against women. Because he was never justifying it. He was just telling what happened as a result of no women having volunteered that day. He wasn't condoning keeping women from that seva for all time. He was just saying because no woman gave her head that day, this is why men are now keeping women from that seva. He was giving facts and the result. When I listened to original I never got that he was telling us to keep women from it. Rather the opposite. 

I have been lurking here for awhile. I have seen quite a few members on here condoning a lesser position for women, not just those two. Though those two seem to be ruthless, and heartless. They are not acting like proper Singhs.  Her not letting it go, is not the same as the outright insults spewed by them towards her.  The difference is she is speaking about subjects in general, and they are directing personal attacks. 

 

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stop insulting shri dasam granth sahib. dasam bani is not against females. i would request chatanga to stop insulting cdn sikh girl. we should focus on how to spread sikhi not to insult each others. i know many of our brothers and sisters are against dasam bani the reson is lack of understanding. i don't think anywhere dasam bani insult anyone. the problem arises when some use wrong interpretation of bani. i heard many nti dasam elements saying that dasam granth promote devi puja but if you read it and understand it correctly then you will get to know that no where in dasam granth devi is been worshiped or any hindu god is been worshiped. many of us in rehras ( taksalis, nihungs ,hazuri, nanaksar) read 

"NA MAI PRITHMAI GANESH MANAU, KISHAN BISHAN KABHU NA DHIAU."

IN RAM AVTAR THE SAVAYYA 

PAYE GAHE JAB TE TUMERE. IS ALSA REJECTING HINDUISM IDEOLOGY.

stop potrying dasam granth in a negetive way. 

no book in sikhism is against gender equality 

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I would like CDN Sis to ignore these racist from UK. The only thing the UK GGB is they have lost their gian in racism form their UK world. They have proved to hotheaded like their racial counterparts. UK is not a peaceful for any jatha to live together under one Guru Granth. They are Gianis' Gone Bad. No Gian only utter non-sense and 100% ego hypocrite. They are hot blooded hot headed racist. They are still struggling through name calling. The made a comment about  gender. How low can these nut heads say this.They are human beings they are not Sikhs. Ho pathetic, Cruel, nasty extremist racists They have no knowledge of Gursikhi. These extremist view they are using Akal Takhat for their advantage. They are no different Badal and the leaders of Akal Takhat. It is better to let this Kali Juug keep doing their work When time will come Hell is here too. They will play their part before they leave. I told you sister these are not good people. They are the real danger to Sikhi and they are born and bread in UK a country of more evil than Darth SIddus. They are worse head banger then even Deaf Leopard or any other heavy group. These are  worse than barking dogs. They are hyenas they poop in their pants if you confront them. They can get a surgery to change their mothers genders, or their sister genders. Looser go home of God will drive to the hell of this world.

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7 hours ago, Guest said:

I would like CDN Sis to ignore these racist from UK. The only thing the UK GGB is they have lost their gian in racism form their UK world. They have proved to hotheaded like their racial counterparts. UK is not a peaceful for any jatha to live together under one Guru Granth. They are Gianis' Gone Bad. No Gian only utter non-sense and 100% ego hypocrite. They are hot blooded hot headed racist. They are still struggling through name calling. The made a comment about  gender. How low can these nut heads say this.They are human beings they are not Sikhs. Ho pathetic, Cruel, nasty extremist racists They have no knowledge of Gursikhi. These extremist view they are using Akal Takhat for their advantage. They are no different Badal and the leaders of Akal Takhat. It is better to let this Kali Juug keep doing their work When time will come Hell is here too. They will play their part before they leave. I told you sister these are not good people. They are the real danger to Sikhi and they are born and bread in UK a country of more evil than Darth SIddus. They are worse head banger then even Deaf Leopard or any other heavy group. These are  worse than barking dogs. They are hyenas they poop in their pants if you confront them. They can get a surgery to change their mothers genders, or their sister genders. Looser go home of God will drive to the hell of this world.

now you're screaming racism too?  cluthcing at straws..

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14 hours ago, JasperS said:

 Put yourself in a hypothetical position where all the gurus were female, the first five were female, our main holy place only allowed females to do seva, one of our holy books is openly (apparently) anti male, you were told that a biological function that is an imperative part of being a man, was seen as dirty and unclean, and makes you unsuitable for seva because of it, in some sampradas you are told that upon marriage you have to see your spouse as God, and they only have to see you as a follower, historical rhetnamas telling women to never trust a man, even ones in your own family, members saying that men are downgrades to women bodies, that men are a part of human kind but are not quite human, people posting that since you obviously would not be happy in your male body you can recite sukhmani shaib to have a female body next time, nearly all the gurdwara management committees are female dominated, all granthis you see are females, most ragi jathas are females and only the female ones can perform at darbar sahib.  

im not trying to be funny, but that i think that that description is really quite beautiful, and as a man, i would totally follow that religion^.  im serious.

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