*Shocker* - Sri Krishan jee was a Celibate

[paapiman]

Please listen to Sant Baba Makhan Singh jee (Head of Amrtisari Taksaal), narrating an anecdote from the life of Sri Krishan jee Maharaaj.

Please start listening after 10:40 min:

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Makhan_Singh_%28Sato_Kee_Gali_wale%29/Jap_Ji_Sahib_Katha/40--Baba.Makhan.Singh--Jap.Ji.Sahib.Viakhya.Part.40.mp3

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Rock]

Bro, whats your take on above katha you posted. I listened to  it.  I dont think Krishna was physically celibate in a way like some Sikh Gursikhs & Saints were. Instead he was celibate in way that even while doing bhog he was not attached to bhog. So physically he did have bhog with 16,000 Gopis but did not do Bhog..confusing eh...just like Durbasha Rishi ate plates of food but still was breath-eater because somehow he was not attached to food. Makes sense ?   Its like Guru Gobind Singh Ji say that Nirankar is doing bhog through bhogis...so when we are doing bhog its actually Nirnakar doing bhog...its confusing.

[paapiman]

4 minutes ago, Rock said:

Bro, whats your take on above katha you posted. I listened to  it.  I dont think Krishna was physically celibate in a way like some Sikh Gursikhs & Saints were. Instead he was celibate in way that even while doing bhog he was not attached to bhog. So physically he did have bhog with 16,000 Gopis but did not do Bhog..confusing eh...just like Durbasha Rishi ate plates of food but still was breath-eater because somehow he was not attached to food. Makes sense ?   Its like Guru Gobind Singh Ji say that Nirankar is doing bhog through bhogis...so when we are doing bhog its actually Nirnakar doing bhog...its confusing.

Paaji, this is called Nirlaypta. Brahamgyanis perform actions, yet they stay detached from them.

In Gurbani, there is a mention about the avastha of a Brahamgyani. The verses imply that a Brahamgyani can commit many murders, but still remain sinless. A Gurmukh Brahamgyani is above Paap or Pun, as he has destroyed his ego.

This concept is very hard to grasp for most people. Only a Brahamgyani can truly explain this state of mind.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Rock]

I have no doubts about Krishna as being a great avtar and all the respect to him. I also believe he was not a Bhogi. But did he perform the physical  action in nirlepta with Gopis or not ?

[paapiman]

12 minutes ago, Rock said:

I have no doubts about Krishna as being a great avtar and all the respect to him. I also believe he was not a Bhogi. But did he perform the physical  action in nirlepta with Gopis or not ?

IMHO, he did engage in actual physical sexual activities with Gopis.

What do you think brother? Any other perspectives? Saint-scholarly sources?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Rock]

What I have heard is that Gopis were previous sadhus or sadhakas in their previous lives. It was their wish to be wives of Nirankar...hence that role played out.  I am not sure about details. But these days I am careful about saying anything about anyone lest I committ the greates sin of Ninda.  Waheguru!

[BhagatSingh]

This is the same way Guru Gobind Singh ji was experiencing grief over the death of his family and Singhs, while being detached.

This is the same way Bhagwan Ram Chandra ji experienced grief over the death of Lakshman ji and separation from Sita ji, while being detached.

Brahmgyanis neither run away from their emotional bodies and emotional duties nor their physical bodies and physical duties. If they were born in warrior tribes they carried out their warrior duties. If they lost someone, they wept for their loss. If they met someone after a long time, they teared up in joy. However they did not get swept away by their caste and emotions. They carried those with them with a pure inner being.

Brahmgyani = Full expression, non-stifled sense of being.

[paapiman]

On 4/8/2016 at 0:05 PM, Rock said:

What I have heard is that Gopis were previous sadhus or sadhakas in their previous lives. It was their wish to be wives of Nirankar...hence that role played out.  I am not sure about details. But these days I am careful about saying anything about anyone lest I committ the greates sin of Ninda.  Waheguru!

Bro, Gopis were the royal maidens, during the time of Sri Ram Chandar jee Maharaaj. Please have a look below.

Quote

When Ram Chandar left Ayodhya to marry Sita in Janakpuri, all the royal maidens were entranced by his beauty. On seeing this he told them that he will satisfy their desires in the Dwaper Yug. In the Dwaper Yug Krishna’s viaktee was one of lust. The maidens became the gopis and hence Ram Chandar satisfied their lust.

Unquote

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[amardeep]

I've always wondered how the story about the gopis is to be interpreted. From what I've read on Hindu websites they are not to be read as Krishna having literally intercourse with 16,000 gopis. THe argument is that he was only 3 years old at the time which abviosly means it is an allegorical story.

[paapiman]

12 minutes ago, amardeep said:

I've always wondered how the story about the gopis is to be interpreted. From what I've read on Hindu websites they are not to be read as Krishna having literally intercourse with 16,000 gopis. THe argument is that he was only 3 years old at the time which abviosly means it is an allegorical story.

Didn't he marry thousands of women, who were freed from a demon, by one of Krishan jee's wives?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[amardeep]

3 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Didn't he marry thousands of women, who were freed from a demon, by one of Krishan jee's wives?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I have no idea

[paapiman]

He married approximately 16,000 women.

Please have a look below

http://aumamen.com/topic/16000-wives-of-krishna-spiritual-significance

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[BhagatSingh]

On 2016-04-09 at 2:16 PM, amardeep said:

I've always wondered how the story about the gopis is to be interpreted. From what I've read on Hindu websites they are not to be read as Krishna having literally intercourse with 16,000 gopis. THe argument is that he was only 3 years old at the time which abviosly means it is an allegorical story.

I like where you are going with this.

This is THE way to understand mythology and obtain the "nutrition-dense foods". If you don't do this, you are just eating crappy chips from a bag that will only make you sick.

This nutrition-dense food is in Guru Granth Sahib. The spiritual significance behind Krishan ji's stories are explained in Guru Granth Sahib.
Gopi is to Krishna = Suhagan is to Khasam Ram = Soul is to God

E.g. ਭਗਤਿ ਵਛਲੁ ਅਨਾਥਹ ਨਾਥੇ ॥ ਗੋਪੀ ਨਾਥੁ ਸਗਲ ਹੈ ਸਾਥੇ ॥
Krishna is the lover of his bhakts, the father to the orphans (souls). He is the master of the gopis (bhakts, souls), he is always with everyone.

E.g. ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਸਬਾਈ ਨਾਰਿ ॥
There is One Master, Husband, all souls are his women.

This Gopi-Krishna theme is there in all Suhagan-Khasam shabads, where Ram is the husband and the bhagat (E.g. Kabir ji) is the Wife.

 

Let's look at a full shabad where Guru sahib expresses this sentiment beautifully.

ਅਪੁਨੇ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕੀ ਹਉ ਚੇਰੀ ॥ ਚਰਨ ਗਹੇ ਜਗਜੀਵਨ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਾਰਿ ਨਿਬੇਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
I am the Maiden of my Master. When I grasped the feet of my Lord, my sense of self (as a separate entity from God) was destroyed.

ਪੂਰਨ ਪਰਮ ਜੋਤਿ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਮੋਹਨ ਮੋਹਿ ਲੀਆ ਮਨੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਮਝਸਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
My beloved, Perfect Supreme Soul, Supreme God, my very Being, Mohan (Krishna), has fascinated my mind, and I have come to understand spirituality.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਹੀਨ ਹੋਛੀ ਮਤਿ ਝੂਠੀ ਮਨਿ ਤਨਿ ਪੀਰ ਸਰੀਰੇ ॥
The Manmukhs (spiritually ignorant people) have false and weak ideas (about Ram), that's why they have pain in their minds and bodies.

ਜਬ ਕੀ ਰਾਮ ਰੰਗੀਲੈ ਰਾਤੀ ਰਾਮ ਜਪਤ ਮਨ ਧੀਰੇ ॥੨॥
Ever since I became immersed in Ram, I chant "Ram" and my mind slows (and enters intuitive peace).

ਹਉਮੈ ਛੋਡਿ ਭਈ ਬੈਰਾਗਨਿ ਤਬ ਸਾਚੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਮਾਨੀ ॥
I have let go of my sense of self (as a separate entity from Ram) and I have become a Bairagan (Ram's lover, as opposed to lover of material things), then my awareness merged into the Ultimate Awareness, Ram.

ਅਕੁਲ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਸਿਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਿਆ ਬਿਸਰੀ ਲਾਜ ਲੋੁਕਾਨੀ ॥੩॥
My mind became fascinated with the Unborn, Unaffected Being, I have let go of people and honour.

ਭੂਰ ਭਵਿਖ ਨਾਹੀ ਤੁਮ ਜੈਸੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਅਧਾਰਾ ॥
There is nothing that resembles my Beloved, the support of my Being, in the past or the future ( meaning - Ram is found in the here and now).

ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਰਤੀ ਸੋਹਾਗਨਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਮ ਭਤਾਰਾ ॥੪॥੧॥
Guru Nanak says, the wife (soul) becomes immersed in Hari's name, and in this manner, she comes to find her Husband Ram.

[jaikaara]

On 4/8/2016 at 9:00 AM, paapiman said:

IMHO, he did engage in actual physical sexual activities with Gopis.

What do you think brother? Any other perspectives? Saint-scholarly sources?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Sri Krishan ji was a child when in Brindavan, he had left the place at the age of 11 . Do you expect a child to do bhog with the gopis at that age ?

All these so called descriptions are nothing but whims of poets who made the language flowery with erotica.

[paapiman]

7 hours ago, jaikaara said:

Sri Krishan ji was a child when in Brindavan, he had left the place at the age of 11 . Do you expect a child to do bhog with the gopis at that age ?

All these so called descriptions are nothing but whims of poets who made the language flowery with erotica.

Paaji, he did marry approximately 16,000 women. All those women were his wives, so he possibly did engage in sexual activities with them. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[jaikaara]

16 hours ago, paapiman said:

Paaji, he did marry approximately 16,000 women. All those women were his wives, so he possibly did engage in sexual activities with them. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

But not at the age of 11...anyone in physical body who marries who engage in physical relationship with their partners that is obvious. That goes for our Gurus too..how else would they have children ?

[paapiman]

On 4/12/2016 at 1:08 AM, jaikaara said:

 That goes for our Gurus too..how else would they have children ?

Paaji, Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj never engaged in any physical sexual act. The birth of his two sons was miraculous. 

Quote (Gunaghar jee)

When Mata Sulakhni Ji ( wife of Guru Nanak) asked Guru Nanak for the blessing of sons, she was blessed with two cloves as a blessing. The prashad/blessing in the form of cloves lead to birth of Sri Chand Ji and Lakhmi Chand Ji. 

Unquote

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[BhagatSingh]

But having sex is not a problem. It's good to have sex. That's how we create new generations.

If it's not a made up story, and guru sahib actually gave mata ji two cloves. That would only mean, he wanted to have two kids. It doesn't mean he never had sex.

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, BhagatSingh said:

But having sex is not a problem. It's good to have sex. That's how we create new generations.

If it's not a made up story, and guru sahib actually gave mata ji two cloves. That would only mean, he wanted to have two kids. It doesn't mean he never had sex.

Srimaan 108 Sant Baba Nand Singh jee Kaleranwale said that Satguru jee never engaged in any sexual activity.

Sex is needed for procreation for ordinary beings. Almighty Waheguru does not need it, to create life.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[jaikaara]

2 hours ago, paapiman said:

Paaji, Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj never engaged in any physical sexual act. The birth of his two sons

Malko now this is like opening a can of worms ..lets keep things as human as possible ..

[BhagatSingh]

Just now, paapiman said:

Sex is needed for procreation for ordinary beings. Almighty Waheguru does not need it, to create life.

Waheguru becomes human and has sex to create more humans.

He had sex with Maya to create us in the first place. We are his children, we have sex to make more of us.

[paapiman]

2 minutes ago, jaikaara said:

Malko now this is like opening a can of worms ..lets keep things as human as possible ..

Paaji, miraculous births are common in Hindu/Sikh history.

Examples - Sri Ganesh jee, Sri Narsingh jee, Shromani Bhagat Baba Kabeer jee Maharaaj, etc.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[jaikaara]

Just now, paapiman said:

Paaji, miraculous births are common in Hindu/Sikh history.

Examples - Sri Ganesh jee, Shromani Bhagat Baba Kabeer jee Maharaaj, etc.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Mere veer..these statements get into wrong directions ..we are actually demonizing sex as an act.

[BhagatSingh]

1 minute ago, paapiman said:

Examples - Sri Ganesh jee, Shromani Bhagat Baba Kabeer jee Maharaaj, etc.

Ganesh ji isn't a man. Ganesh is Gan - Ishwar. Gan are bhakts. Ishwar means God. Ganesh is the God of Bhakts from the Ganpatya religion.

And Kabir ji had a normal birth.

[paapiman]

1 minute ago, jaikaara said:

Mere veer..these statements get into wrong directions ..we are actually demonizing sex as an act.

Bro, it is possible for a fool to take Gurbani in the wrong direction too. We should discuss these concepts, without looking down upon the physical act of procreation. No one should demonize legitimate sex. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf