Old image of dasmesh pita hunting

[dalsingh101]

Interesting image from the 1870s that will probably upset a few hardcore vegans. lol

 

Is that a Singh in a UFO in the top left corner? 

[Rock]

44 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Is that a Singh in a UFO in the top left corner? 

You can see him folding hands in gratitude. It represents the Atma of the jeevs whose udhar was done by Guru Ji. He is going up in heavens. lol .

Even the muslim enemies who died at the hands of Guru ji were salvated and free from cycle of life & birth.  It was really an honor or way to die at the hands of Guru. This is the reason two sikhs, son & dad, were so eager to become a testing target for the bullet of Guru.

 

[dalsingh101]

10 hours ago, Rock said:

You can see him folding hands in gratitude. It represents the Atma of the jeevs whose udhar was done by Guru Ji. He is going up in heavens. lol .

Even the muslim enemies who died at the hands of Guru ji were salvated and free from cycle of life & birth.  It was really an honor or way to die at the hands of Guru. This is the reason two sikhs, son & dad, were so eager to become a testing target for the bullet of Guru.

 

You have noticed that the image shows Singhs hunting, not Guru ji yeah? 

[Rock]

Its just an imagination of a meat loving artist imo lol. 

I am biased & interpret acc. to my own mental tendencies. Lets see what others think.

[paapiman]

13 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

 

Beautiful picture. Thanks for sharing.

Lucky animals receiving liberation, at the command of the Master of the creation.

The Singh in the air could possibly be levitating in the air and observing the scene. Flying in the air or levitating is a pretty easy task for Brahamgyanis. There used to be a certain number of Brahamgyanis with Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master).

Bhul chuk maaf

[Rock]

2 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Lucky animals receiving liberation, at the command of the Master of the creation.

That works too.

[paapiman]

44 minutes ago, Rock said:

Its just an imagination of a meat loving artist imo lol. 

Bro, we cannot deny that Sri Satguru jee taught hunting to his Sikhs.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

Again, we see a change in iconography from times gone by, to today. 

The above image is a woodcut, that would have been sold at bazaars and hung in homes. (Woodcuts allow for quick, cheap and easy replications of an image to be made, making it cost effective for the creator, as opposed to having to create the same image from scratch, repeatedly).

I think many people apnay today would get seriously upset if someone created a modern version of such a scene, but it's obvious that people a century ago wouldn't have these issues. 

[Rock]

A lot of parchar has been done for Vegetarianism by the Sants since 1900s such as Bhuchowale, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Hoti Mardan, Mehta Taksal, Radhaswamis etc. That is why " people apnay today would get seriously upset if someone created a modern version of such a scene, but it's obvious that people a century ago wouldn't have these issues. "

Even in my family where everyone is Amritdhari now, my great grandfathers ( one in pakistan) both paternal & maternal were fond of hunting, drinking one peg every night, & chicken when guests came over and getting up in the Amritvela to do nitnem. So it was a norm back then. And I wouldnt be surprised if such paintings were common also.  If you were not hunting you were not considered a real Sardar.

History is just history. We will be history one day. 

Just gotta keep progressing taking guidance from Sants who are sent to re-emphasize the maryada.

[Rock]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

Again, we see a change in iconography from times gone by, to today.

yep waves come & go whether it is iconography, history, views, or fashion or taste in music. gotta surf the wave & stay on top of it.

[dalsingh101]

29 minutes ago, Rock said:

yep waves come & go whether it is iconography, history, views, or fashion or taste in music. gotta surf the wave & stay on top of it.

We should also be careful of not rewriting our history either. 

We are lucky to have such a rich heritage. 

 

If our ancestors did certain things in the past, they probably had good reason. Just because today, certain things are not considered normal (for whatever reason), we shouldn't objectify past norms of behaviour as wrong in my opinion. 

[amardeep]

There is a painting of Guru Maharaj in the 1696 Anandpuri bir of Dasam Granth. It depicts the Guru hunting. The painting is used on the cover of this book

[Rock]

20 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

If our ancestors did certain things in the past, they probably had good reason. Just because today, certain things are not considered normal (for whatever reason), we shouldn't objectify past norms of behaviour as wrong in my opinion. 

Fair.

[dalsingh101]

I was saying to Chatanga on SS. Too much of our history has been rewritten in modern times. It's weird when we go and study and find all these things that have been either covered up or played down. 

I don't think this has a good effect on us as a community.

Now that I think about it, I remember growing up with a very garish, desi style calendar print of (I think it was) Guru Hargobind killing a tiger/lion (? can't remember exactly) with a sword and shield. 

[BhagatSingh]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

If our ancestors did certain things in the past, they probably had good reason. Just because today, certain things are not considered normal (for whatever reason), we shouldn't objectify past norms of behaviour as wrong in my opinion. 

That goes for all of our human history.

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

I think many people apnay today would get seriously upset if someone created a modern version of such a scene, but it's obvious that people a century ago wouldn't have these issues. 

This is not the case. There are plenty of sakhis and paintings of of Guru Sahibs slicing and dicing animals in children's books.

1 hour ago, Rock said:

A lot of parchar has been done for Vegetarianism by the Sants since 1900s such as Bhuchowale, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Hoti Mardan, Mehta Taksal, Radhaswamis etc.

As it should, since Guru Granth Sahib does promote a vegetarian diet. However vegetarians tend to start negatively judge others if they choose to eat meat.

1 hour ago, Rock said:

drinking one peg every night, & chicken when guests came over and getting up in the Amritvela to do nitnem.

That's another thing. The people who eat meat also tend to drink hence the term "khande-pinde". Thus meat becomes associated with drinking. Drinking is associated with harmful things so this gives people a more negative view of meat as well. Meat-eaters themselves have not maintained purity in this manner.

[dalsingh101]

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That goes for all of our human history.

Not really. Plenty of cultures have histories of human sacrifices. You'd have a hard time convincing people that this was not wrong compared to say hunting or eating meat.

 

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As it should, since Guru Granth Sahib does promote a vegetarian diet. However vegetarians tend to start negatively judge others if they choose to eat meat.

 

You appear to be relegating a lot of important texts to the sidelines when you say this. What do we make of hunting referenced in DG then. What about all the solid historical evidence of jhatka and hunting too. Are you suggesting that Khalsas were deviating from accepted practice when they did this? 

 

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This is not the case. There are plenty of sakhis and paintings of of Guru Sahibs slicing and dicing animals in children's books.

Fair point. 

 

[BhagatSingh]

22 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Not really. Plenty of cultures have histories of human sacrifices. You'd have a hard time convincing people that this was not wrong compared to say hunting or eating meat.

You dropped the ball fast -

If our ancestors did certain things in the past, they probably had good reason. Just because today, certain things are not considered normal (for whatever reason), we shouldn't objectify past norms of behaviour as wrong in my opinion. 

Stick to it.

And find out why things were the way they were ie look for the good reasons.

Stop worrying about whether people will be convinced or not, and start worrying about whether you can convince yourself of your very own words.

 

22 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

You appear to be relegating a lot of important texts to the sidelines when you say this. What do we make of hunting referenced in DG then. What about all the solid historical evidence of jhatka and hunting too. Are you suggesting that Khalsas were deviating from acceptable practice when they did this? 

All I said was that the parchar of vegetarianism is good because Guru Granth Sahib promotes a vegetarian diet. The rest is your imagination.

[dalsingh101]

12 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

You dropped the ball fast -

If our ancestors did certain things in the past, they probably had good reason. Just because today, certain things are not considered normal (for whatever reason), we shouldn't objectify past norms of behaviour as wrong in my opinion. 

Stick to it.

And find out why things were the way they were ie look for the good reasons.

Stop worrying about whether people will be convinced or not, and start worrying about whether you can convince yourself of your very own words.

You're comparing cheese and chalk. I'm not worried about anything people are thinking, that's your imagination.

The only excuse for human sacrifices was the darkest ignorance and superstition. It just shows how low people can go if they don't restrain their primal instincts and fear. It also shows how people can be duped into doing all manner of stupidity under the direction of some charismatic, mumbo-jumbo spewing shaman type. lol  That's not the case with our ancestors hunting.  

 

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All I said was that the parchar of vegetarianism is good because Guru Granth Sahib promotes a vegetarian diet. The rest is your imagination.

All I'm saying is that you should factor in all the other evidence in as well and explain it - if you feel so strongly about it. 

[BhagatSingh]

3 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

You're comparing cheese and chalk. I'm not worried about anything people are thinking, that's your imagination.

The only excuse for human sacrifices was the darkest ignorance and superstition. It just shows how low people can go if they don't restrain their primal instincts and fear. It also shows how people can be duped into doing all manner of stupidity under the direction of some charismatic, mumbo-jumbo spewing shaman type. lol  That's not the case with our ancestors hunting.

These words are weak and lack understanding.

 

These words below were strong and demonstrated good understanding.  After saying them you regressed to an inferior understanding in the quote above.

If our ancestors did certain things in the past, they probably had good reason. Just because today, certain things are not considered normal (for whatever reason), we shouldn't objectify past norms of behaviour as wrong in my opinion. 

This is good.

 

And I'll tell you why this is good so that you are not left wondering and can work your way back up.

If our ancestors did certain things in the past, they probably had good reason. Just because today, certain things are not considered normal (for whatever reason), we shouldn't objectify past norms of behaviour as wrong in my opinion. 

This demonstrated good understanding because it displayed a level of non-dual awareness, a non-judgmental awareness where things were seen as they were rather than being interpreted as good or bad based on any given set of conditions.

This is called spaciousness by Eckharte Tolle. I only mention him and his terminology since you revere him.

Spaciousness is this quality of being open and detached from the thing you are viewing to let it in fully without imposing your conditioning on it. To view reality without imposing a standard of good and bad on to it.

Such standards of good and bad are good for certain things, certain situations. However such standards can destroy that which you are looking at. They can distort perception.

Thus non-dual awareness (spaciousness) must be employed to accurately perceive that which is so far removed from our current reality based on conditioning in our society.  For example, the traditions of our ancestors, God, diverging viewpoints, etc. are all things that are far removed from our current reality at this given moment. So these things again - the traditions of our ancestors, God, diverging viewpoints, etc. -  are all understood and tasted through this state of consciousness. They are fully perceived via non-dual awareness (spaciousness).

 

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All I'm saying is that you should factor in all the other evidence in as well and explain it - if you feel so strongly about it. 

I said - the parchar of vegetarianism is good because Guru Granth Sahib promotes a vegetarian diet.

What evidence do you want me to factor into that statement?

[paapiman]

On 5/6/2016 at 10:20 AM, Rock said:

A lot of parchar has been done for Vegetarianism by the Sants since 1900s such as Bhuchowale, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Hoti Mardan, Mehta Taksal, Radhaswamis etc.

Even before that (1800's), Srimaan Sant Baba Ram Singh jee Namdhari and other Mahapurakhs promoted a lacto-vegetarian diet. Most likely, Sikhs had started eating meat in large numbers for pleasure purposes, instead of survival/battle related purposes (as did by Sikhs of 1700's).

 

Bhul chuk maaf