SinghMunda Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 I wanna start this subject cos i think there are important differences and similarities between Sikhism and Buddhism. My knowledge on Buddhism is very limited so I was hoping people may be able to contribute to widen my knowledge and that of others. I will start off with anything I know, but if I am wrong, please kindly correct me: Both believe in meditation-altho I am not sure entirely how Buddhists approach this because there is apparently no emphasism on the belief of God in Buddhism. Both believe in overcoming the cycle of life and death through meditating and achieving meditation Sikhism unlike Buddhism has the central belief that one must keep their hairs in their natural form Buddhists have idol worshipping no (big statues of Buddha no? and "laughing Buddha statues") That's all i can, please would the learned further this discussion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 buddhists meditate on nothing-ness. its quite boring really, ive tried. its just like clearing your mind. i did a quick look into buddhism (ch'an) a while backand 2 b honest i was a tad confused......its got nice concepts but the idea of enlightenment is apparently when u realise "ur mind is the buddha mind".....but buddha in buddhism is just an enlightened soul.....so......... :? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Admin note: Khalsa soulja atleast give some respect to name you have chosen and use appropriate language to describe something. You need to keep this in your mind that this is "Sikh" website not "Desi" website. We have edited your post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Have you ever been to Dharashala in Himachal Pradesh the main base of Buddhism in India... one of the most beautiful and peaceful places on this earth and how could that be boring... But I still wonder why it was erased from the place of its Origin i.e. India... ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Waht type of Buddhism do you wish to discuss? Mahayana, vajrayana or hinayana? which aspects? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 The Buddhist teachings are described as consisting of 84,000 different types of presentation, which are all varying remedies to varying types of mental afflictions. If all of these are summed up, they consist of what are called the three vehicles. The three vehicles can also be summed up further as just two. The Two Main Vehicles Of Buddhism The two vehicles consist of what Is called the Hinayana (the lesser or the basic vehicle) and the Mahayana (the great vehicle). There is a fairly common misunderstanding of the term Hinayana, the lesser vehicle. The term "lesser" (actually "little") does not mean "inferior." People often hearing the term think this must be an inferior form of Buddhism so obviously it won't be of any help and I'd better go for the better kind. It is not the case that the result of it is in any way inferior or that the teachings are in any way inferior. The term "little" or "lesser" is comparative only in the sense of the gradation of progress through the path. It's the first vehicle that is practiced, like entering the first grade. It is the basic vehicle or the fundamental vehicle, and it is called lower in the same way that one would call the foundation of a house lower than the walls or the roof. But just as the first thing that has to be established if one wants to build a house is the foundation, in the same way, the Hinayana is the only possible foundation for the Mahayana and Vajrayana presentations and practices. It may be more helpful to think of it as the basic vehicle rather than as the lower or lesser vehicle. The Hinayana What the Buddha taught in the basic vehicle or the Hinayana is fundamentally the cause and result of samsara and the cause and result of nirvana. He showed that the cause of samsara is the false imputation of a truly existent self and the resultant three poisons or the three root mental afflictions and that the result of the presence of this imputation of the self and the mental affliction is all the varying sufferings of samsara, the pain and fear of the six realms. He also presented the Cause of nirvana, the cause of liberation from this suffering, which is the method one uses to free oneself from this, the path, which consists of the application of the four noble truths and the twelve links of interdependence. And he taught the result of this path which is the cessation of suffering or the transcendence of misery, nirvana. This presentation is essentially the presentation of the four noble truths, two of which present the cause and result of samsara, and the latter two which present the cause and result of nirvana. All the Hinayana teachings can basically be included in the four noble truths. The main practice in the Hinayana is the discipline of renunciation. This depends entirely upon the recognition that samsara is suffering and the resultant disgust. If you want to have genuine renunciation, you must recognize the presence and pervasiveness of suffering. Obviously, if you do not recognize the presence of suffering, you will have no reason to earnestly seek liberation. So the basic practice first of all is to recognize the nature of samsara to be the three sufferings, which produces genuine renunciation. It is for this reason that the Buddha's first teaching, the first truth presented among the four noble truths, is a clear presentation of the presence of suffering. Generally speaking, we all know that there's lots of suffering in samsara, but it's hard sometimes to recognize appearances of pleasure as being essentially suffering as well. As I said yesterday, essentially suffering is fear. Even when we are enjoying something, experiencing pleasure or happiness, we are filled with fear because when we possess or enjoy something pleasurable, we fear losing it. If we have a position or wealth, we live in fear of losing it. It doesn't matter how much you have or how little you have, fear is fundamentally the same. If you are the ruler of a country, you fear losing that position, if you are a homeless beggar on the street, you fear losing that position. The fear of suffering, the fear not only of losing what you enjoy, but of encountering what you especially do not enjoy, is the same for a king or for a beggar. So if you clearly understand the pervasiveness of fear, then you understand how the basic nature of samsara is suffering. If therefore you understand the truth of suffering (the first noble truth) and you recognize the presence of suffering, you will have genuine renunciation. This is basically the recognition that wherever you are born, whatever your circumstances are, in samsara, it's basically an experience of suffering. This renunciation is an absolutely necessary basis as well for the practice of the Mahayana, the great vehicle. Without genuine renunciation, genuine compassion is impossible. Compassion fundamentally consists of recognizing the suffering of others and as a result generating the intense desire that they be free from that suffering. If you do not see your own suffering and thereby do not recognize the pervasiveness of suffering, it is impossible for you to see or to empathize with the suffering of others. So if you do not have some degree of genuine renunciation, you cannot have a genuine or stable compassion. For that reason, renunciation is very important for Mahayana practice. Genuine renunciation leads to genuine compassion, which becomes the genuine aspiration to bring all beings to full awakening. So the main practice in the Hinayana is the cultivation of renunciation and the study of the four noble truths, leading to one's individual liberation. The Mahayana and Special Mahayana (Vajrayana) The practice of Mahayana has two aspects to it. These are the general Mahayana and the special Mahayana. The general Mahayana is the practice of the six perfections, therefore it is called the paramitayana or vehicle of the perfections. The special Mahayana is the practice of mantra or Tantra or Vajrayana. Vajrayana is not considered a vehicle separate from Mahayana, but a variety of Mahayana. The Mahayana path starts when you generate genuine bodhicitta. Bodhicitta here is fundamentally altruism, the genuine desire for the benefit and welfare of others. On the basis of bodhicitta, one can practice the general path of Mahayana, which is the cultivation of the 6 paramitas or the six perfections. To practice the special Mahayana or the Vajrayana, two things are necessary: first, genuine bodhicitta, as in general Mahayana, and second, receiving abhisheka (empowerment), on the basis of which one cultivates the main body of the path, working with the iconography of deities, mantras, and wisdom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 i didnt say buddhism was boring, i said ch'an buddhist meditation which i tried was boring. try it, youll be pleasantly (un)surprised. just sit there and try and clear ur mind of all thoughts. and then? urm...yep, thats it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Sounds like you tried Zen, Dogen-style meditation KS. Did you try it by yourself or did you go to a teacher? There are many different types of Buddhist meditation from many different traditions, with different goals (although the ultimate goal remains generally the same). Buddhism is huge. I personally find it incredible. You will come across an incredibly specific mapping of the path to enlightenment/zero-experience. This means it is laden with complex terminology, numerous signs and stages. From a psychological point of view it is quite simply astounding; very recepetive to the mind's nuances and subtleties. I'm talking generally here, and as Lalleshvari has said, we must be careful to identify the particular type (Theravada, Mahayana, Zen/Chan, Pure Land, etc) and the particular tradition. You'll find that Tibetan Buddhism (one form of Mahayana) is popular in the UK, as is Theravada. Zen has made an impact mainly through Order of Buddhist Contemplatives sect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Also wanted to point out that buddhism has very firm beleive in reincarnation. I read it in an book where they beleive that "Dalai Lama" has been born many times. Current one is 14th dalai lama in buddhism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms514 Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Sat Sri Akal: Buddhism does not comment on the subject of the Almighty. Rather, Buddhism's ultimate goal is to rid of all worldly desires and attain Nirvana, or the ultimate bliss. Buddhism was a HUGE religion in India...that is until the time of one Sankaracharya aka. Chanakayia. He and fellow Brahmins, troubled that the castless Buddhist religion might upset the Brahmin control over the people, started a campaign to eliminate Buddhism. Through military might and philosophical undermining, the Brahmins literally drove Buddhists out of their country, India. The Buddhists were pushed into the Himalayas to the east and to Afganistan in the North. The temples of the Buddhists were either leveled or converted into Hindu temples. (Information summarized from "The Sikhs In History by Bhai Sangat Singh, Pages 3-10). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Bhuddam Sharnam Gachaameh... What does this mean ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 IDEAL SINGH: Bhuddam Sharnam Gachaameh... What does this mean ? Buddham Sharanam Gachhaami = I come under the protection (sharan) of Buddha.It is in Pali language I believe. In my view Satguru Nanak Dev Ji and Gautam Buddha achieved the same enlightenment.It's too bad that the followers of Buddha waste their time over trying to intellectualise Ultimate Reality. Has nobody ever seen how the Satguru used Buddhist terms in Gurbani?Like nirbaan and sunn (shunya). Here are some examples: Antar sunnang baahar sunnang, tribhavan sunn masunnang. Inside is the Absolute-Void outside is Void, pervading the three worlds is Void Void. (Sidh Gost) Sunno sunn kahai sabh koee. Everyone talks of Absolute-Void. Anhat sunn kahaa te koee. Where is this Absolute Void? (Sidh Gost) Ustat nindaa do-oo tiaage, khojai pad nirvaan. Go beyond (tyaag) praising and slander, seek the state of Nirvaan. (SGGS p.219 line 3 Raag Gauri M:9) Har Har man bhaaiaa param sukh paaiaa, Har laahaa pad nirbaan. The Name of the Lord is lodged in my mind, the Lord Har has granted me the state of Nirvaan. (SGGS p.444, line 18, Raag Asa, M: 4) There you go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 I do buddhist style meditation, but, i keep a focus in my mind, dat focus is Waheguru, everyting else has 2 b blocked out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 Just to make things clear: In Buddhism there is NO SOUL (anatma) In Buddhism there is NO INHERENT UNDERLYING ESSENCE OF THINGS so please do keep the terms soul etc... out of discussion when talking about Buddhism 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 Soul = psyche, jivatma Atma = Self, literal translation is "self," transcendental SELF Anatma = non-self There is: Atma - Jivatma - Sharir Consciousness - Psyche - Body I believe what Buddhists call anatma is the impermanent self, the Psyche.For me Atman does not mean "soul".Atman = :?: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 I was going 2 say sumting bout dis. Budda did believe in a soul. Wot he done was 2 look inside of him, and try find sumting dat he couldn't from da outside. Buddha was a hindu 1st, he dun all of da hindu rituals and idol workshipping but he still saw suffuring all around him. He wanted 2 solve dis by getting answers in da wrong ways 1st. He tryed betting himself to wipe his sins, but it never worked, so den he tryed 2 go on a fast, he sat der meditateing wid out food and he didn't kno why wasn't it working. Den he was @ a point of dying den was sum1 gave him a glane of rice, he eat it, den he started workshipping sum more, he saw all of his desires and as he was workshipping he imaged throwing pattles flours bak 2 his desires den his desires went away, den he saw a gal who he lusted after den he saw dem malt away den he saw a figure, dis was his ego, dey had a long battle but buddha kept on throwing bak flour pattles den slowly his ego went away, den he became enlightened den he was 1. Dis i've leanred from a BBC program. If dis information is incorrect pls 4give me as i'm jus saying dis from memory. =============================================== Buddism DOES believe in a soul. But Buddisum doesn't really believe in da existance of God. Sikhism and Buddism r nearly alike. Buddists believe in a Soul Buddists believe da existance of Maya and da illusions it creates. Buddists believe in reincarnation Buddists also believes in a Caste-less society. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 This link gives really good comparison between two faiths. http://www.sikhs.org/relig_b.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Sorry rups but you're wrong sariputra shunyata rupa rupa shunyatam rupa evam rupa shunyata evam shunyata 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 According to dasam granth sahib ji and hindu scriptures- 9th incarnation of vishnu is buddha. Here is little more about it... Buddha(the ninth incarnation): Though the orthodox Hindus considered the doctrones of Buddha heretical, his impact was so great on the masses that he came to be honured as a Avatar of vishnu. This is said to have happened between A.d 450 and the sixth century, because he appeared first in the vishnu Purana (A.D 400-500). The bhagavata purana refers to the Buddha incarnation in the form of the several prophecies, for instance: "When the kali age has begun, in order to delude the enemies of gods, vishnu will be born as Buddha, son of Ajana. When the enemies of the gods came to know the Vedic rites and begun to oppress people, then he will assume an attractive and deluding form and teach adharama to the demons.....making them heretics." (As quoted in orgins of evil in Hindu mythology by Wendy Doniger O"fiaherty, published by University of california Press, Los angeles, 1976). Rev, Wilkins in his book Hindu Mythology says, " The bhramanical writers were far too shrewd to admit that one who exerted such immense influence and won so many disciplines could be none other than an incarnation of the Deity, but as his teaching was opposed to their own, they cleverly say that it was to mislead the enemies of the gods that he promulagated his doctrine, that they, becoming weak and wicked through error, might be led once again to seek the help and blessings of those whom they had previously neglected". Refrence: book by surinder singh kohli "God's will" Hakum pg-50-51 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Have you ever been to Dharashala in Himachal Pradesh the main base of Buddhism in India... one of the most beautiful and peaceful places on this earth and how could that be boring... But I still wonder why it was erased from the place of its Origin i.e. India... ? well Hindus (or the indian goverment) dont seem to like other religions inspiring ppl.. jus what they r trying to with SIkhism.. i.e -1984 RSS and their anti -SIkh propaganda.. they dont like ppl to get inspired by other religions and converting they are clearly VERY VERY NARROWMINDED! BHulla CHukka Maaf WJKK WJKF! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyDudesWassup Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 I cannot meditate on god properly unless I have a clear mind so I always meditate on my breathing first. Be it boring or not I beleive you do need a clear mind to meditate on the Lord. Afterall I don't wanna be doing naam simran and thinking about the Xbox sale. i didnt say buddhism was boring, i said ch'an buddhist meditation which i tried was boring. try it, youll be pleasantly (un)surprised. just sit there and try and clear ur mind of all thoughts. and then? urm...yep, thats it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 I visited some spritual forum they seem to be obsessed by Buddhism coz they say its amazingly compatible with science... someone wrote as follows... There is a similarity with Buddhism and Science - we test out theories with experiments. The difference is, Science is more Material-Based, while Buddhism is more Spiritual-Based. However, Buddha did answer some questions about the "outside world" when asked about the cosmology, physics, etc etc. I'm not saying everything we learn in Science has been written in Buddhist scriptures, because even if its written in buddhist scriptures then, not all will be understood. All I'm saying is that it is compatible. Cosmology and quantum physics are examples that are very accurate. In fact, "scientific claims" in Buddhism are already proven now. In Buddhism there is a way to count the age of the universe... and its 13 Billion years, similar to what scientists claims (10 to 13 billion years). Buddhists believe that this planet Earth has gone through many many changes through ages, according to sutras, mountains can turn to plain land, plain land can turn to mountains, sea can turn to land, land can turn to sea. Buddha also said there are 84000 (defined as Uncountable) unseen living organisms living in a cup of water, while those people in the past did not exactly understand what Buddha said, it is proven now. Buddhists also believe that there are 10 billion (or 1 billion i cant remember) sun systems (solar systems) in the universe. It is also written that after this universe ended in a violent process, a new universe will be formed, and it's a long cycle. Buddha had also describe atoms and things like that. So it's like from the smallest things, to the furthest and largest thing - universe, its all described in Buddhism. There are quite a number of other interesting things, but I think you should check other websites for more. If you're interested to hear more about "Science and Buddhism", there's a good speech you should check out: http://www.bswa.org/audio/mp3/Brahmavamso_2001_10_19.mp3 Also, one depressing thing, they seemed totally unaware of Sikhism :!: :cry: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 since this topic is on buddhism. It has brought my old memories back and I cant help posting in here. Yes, I have studied buddhism for over a year. I use to practice more of ch'an buddhism , often known as zen buddhism. On this subject I would just like to quote Guru Gobind Singh Ji when he said that you can keep sitting like a crane all day long in meditation trying to fool people. I dont know what Buddhism was in the past (During the times of Buddha). It has not impressed me much. There essential practice is only on meditation. A typical type of meditation is the zazen meditation.. aimed to empty the mind of thoughts.... ..... Belief in God doesnt exist in Buddhism and some people will come to you and say its okay to believe in God, but belief in God or anything else is considered a "mental" concept an imaginary concept of the mind. The aim of the Buddhist is to negate the mind of all these cocnepts and mental imaginations and reach a point of nothingness... which is not "this" nor "that" and stay there... or more like saying "just being as you are" The concept of "not this and not that" has been misunderstood. It only applies to God.. that God is neither this nor that.. God simply cant be pinpointed by our thinking or reasoning. So He is niether this nor that. In Jap Ji Sahib, Guru Nanak has pointed out that God can not be established nor created .. "thaapia na jai keeta na hoi" Many people are these days very much interested in Buddhism. Infact so much intersted that things like christain buddhists, muslim buddhists... have also started to come up. I hope there wont be any sikh buddhist. This strong inclincation towards Buddhism is only becoz of the rational reason it supplies for the non-existence of God, wihch somehow pleases the mind and satisifies the mental curiosities.. but these rational reasons dont come very handy when you go deep on walking the path. I use to sit long hours in meditation wit my legs aching.. and all those things. All I can now say is that if a person does no meditation, is totally no-virtuous.. but still has love for God in His heart .. then He is much head of all those buddhists sitting in meditation for long long hours. I am not so impressed by Buddhists, although some get very impressed becoz it deals with things in a so-called 'scientific' manner. Buddhists mainly negate all concepts... calling God a concept of mind. ... and in reality that thinking can make u MAD. In Biddhism, they think they know God and stuff & they tend to describe it all the time as if it was in their pocket. In this kali yug time there is no other path than the Name of God will come handy.. rest are all crap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 IDeal Singh or Baba Deep Singh, Most people who are intersted in Buddhism are westerners.. coz they need logic, reason and explanations... they need there mental curiosities to be satisifed.. Buddhists some how do that at a surface level, but deep down these things are of no use... You will see Buddhism spreading more in the west, like America and England than any other place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 I cannot meditate on god properly unless I have a clear mind so I always meditate on my breathing first. Be it boring or not I beleive you do need a clear mind to meditate on the Lord. Afterall I don't wanna be doing naam simran and thinking about the Xbox sale. HeyDudesWassup, You Dont need a Clear Mind to meditate on God. YOu Need LOVE to meditate on God. If you have a girlfriend and you love her so much, then see how your mind is always thinking of your girlfriend??? So leave all these clearmind boring stuff away. :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 No offence jjj, but you can only really comment from your experience on a specific form of chan/zen buddhism, and not on buddhism per se. For example, Mahayana and specifically Tibetan schools of buddhism are (in my opinion) quasi-theistic and at the least highly tantric, which was imported from India. The original sutras of the buddha refer to deities. Pure Land is devotional, etc So perhaps it'd help if you didn't generalise too much from those specific experiences you had, although I recognise and value your point. all the best 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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