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3 hours ago, Guest jsa said:

ram chander ji was not akal puakh

Depends on which religion you are talking about. In Guru Granth Sahib he is. In Ramayan he is. In other writings he is not.

3 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

Becasue according to Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib, Sri Ram Chander took the whole nagri to sachkhand with him. Yet Hanuman was fated to stay in Prithvi lok as long as the name of Ram was known. According to my own knowledge/instruction, Guru Nanak released him from this duty so he could go to Sachkhand.

I'd like to see the quote. However I think I already understand where this Allegory is going.

"Hanuman was fated to stay in Prithvi lok as long as the name of Ram was known"
Hanuman ji is there wherever there is Ram naam.
"Guru Nanak released him from this duty"
Then same with Guru Nanak, who is present wherever there is Ram naam.

These guys have merged into the Supreme Soul, Ram, so they are indistinct from him. ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥ In Kaliyug, he was known as Nanak, Angad and Amardas. So wherever there is Ram Naam, he is present there.

So in English - God is present wherever his devotees are chanting his name.

It's the same sentiment as  - ਤਹਾ ਬੈਕੁੰਠੁ ਜਹ ਕੀਰਤਨੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਤੂੰ ਆਪੇ ਸਰਧਾ ਲਾਇਹਿ ॥੨॥
Guru Arjun Dev ji says - My Ram, Vaikunth is there, where your kirtan is taking place. You yourself have given us this devotion.

 

Quote

While Hanuman demonstrated by tearing his chest in the Royal court showing the name of ram in his chest, his body was still here. That is where the question comes from.

Right because Ram Chandra ji is Narayan, he resides inside everyone. So the allegory of Hanuman ji ripping his chest and showing Ram Chandra ji resides in there is to show he is fully immersed in Ram naam. That individual consciousness, Hanuman, has merged into universal consciousness, Ram.

So I was talking about merging of your consciousness into Ram, not the body. But your question about body is an interesting one.

Thing is if your body merges with Ram, then it's not like you are jelly and Ram is a jelly and you combine those two jellies together lol and get bigger jelly.

In my experience, when body merges with Ram, it becomes a vehicle for Ram. Whatever you do, you will feel it is not you (meaning ahankar, ego identity) who is doing it, it is Ram who is doing it. Tasks become effortless so to speak. You don't seek fruits of your actions, because they are not your actions exactly. You have become ਨਿਹਕਰਮ, without action. Ram performs all the tasks.

ਸੰਤਾ ਕੇ ਕਾਰਜਿ ਆਪਿ ਖਲੋਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਕੰਮੁ ਕਰਾਵਣਿ ਆਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥

So Hanuman ji having lost his sense of self, had Ram shine through him and perform his actions. So you have the allegory of him ripping his chest and showing Ram shining through.

 

When Bhagt Dhanna ji worshipped Shaligram (a black stone which he thought was Shaligram, also known as Thakur), then he was going in there looking for some thing that would do his labour. He was expecting a body come out of it and expecting that body to do his work.

What happened was that in worshipping the stone, he entered into a state of being where -
- He lost his sense of self, there was no Dhanna, only Ram
- The burden of his 'self' was not weighing down on him.
- When he performed actions they became effortless
- He felt that things were getting done all by themselves

So Dhanna ji eventually realized that - ਸੰਤਾ ਕੇ ਕਾਰਜਿ ਆਪਿ ਖਲੋਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਕੰਮੁ ਕਰਾਵਣਿ ਆਇਆ ਰਾਮ ॥ - even though he might have been expecting something else. So then he merged in Ram.

I can say that wherever there is Ram naam, Dhanna ji is present there. Because there is no difference between Dhanna and Ram. Like there is no difference between Kabir and Ram. ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਏਕ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥੬॥੩॥

Ravidas ji says to Ram - ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥ ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥  You, Me, Me, You, what is the difference? (No difference) The difference is like Gold and Jewellery, like Water and Waves.

Once the Jewelry is destroyed it nothing but Gold.

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jasbir, these are your interpretations.. before you had dalsingh cheer leading you, but now mate, seriously..to be fair i didnt read your whole article, but i am sure it goes along the line where by you say that you need to meditate and therefore have a better insight on everything as "vishnu" is communicating with you (i say duality/ego), but you will insist that you are all "one", but vishnu is still wispering in your ear...ok..

before you go on about im not with one and you are, save it jas..

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Just now, samurai said:

jasbir, these are your interpretations.. before you had dalsingh cheer leading you, but now mate, seriously..to be fair i didnt read your whole article, but i am sure it goes along the line where by you say that you need to meditate and therefore have a better insight on everything as "vishnu" is communicating with you (i say duality/ego), but you will insist that you are all "one", but vishnu is still wispering in your ear...ok..

before you go on about im not with one and you are, save it jas..

who's jasbir...?

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46 minutes ago, tva prasad said:

who's jasbir...?

That's what I was wondering lol. Maybe he's got me confused with someone else.

43 minutes ago, tva prasad said:

ram chandar is Vishnu avtar who is NOT akal purukh because he has an end he has a beginning and an end. The ram talked about in gurbani is waheguru. Ram means present everywhere, in everything.

Ram means 'pleasing'.
Vishnu means 'present everywhere, in everything' ie Akal Purakh, Waheguru.
(Ref - Vishnu Sahasarnama, Sanskrit Dictionary)

Ram Chandra ji is considered an avtar of Vishnu ji, that is to say, there is no distinction between Vishnu and Ram. Vishnu is one who is present everywhere, in everything, thus you can say Ram is present everywhere, in everything.

The body has an end and beginning. However consciousness does not. It's important to make a distinction between the body of Ram and his consciousness, his being.

When Saints are referring to Ram, they are referring to consciousness, Purakh (Akal Purakh). When Bhagat Valmiki ji was writing Ramayan, ie story of Ram Chandra ji, he was referring to Akal Purakh descending down to Earth and... well you know the rest.

So come to Hanuman ji, who did bhagti of Ram ji and merged into him. If he merged into that which is present everywhere and in everything, then where do you think you will find Hanuman ji?

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Just now, BhagatSingh said:

If he merged into that which is present everywhere and in everything, then where do you think you will find Hanuman ji?

hanuman is one with ram g so there is no distinction between them so where ever there is ram there is hanuman g. Just as the drop falls into the ocean it becomes the ocean.

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21 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

 Like there is no difference between Kabir and Ram. ਰਾਮ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਏਕ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਪਛਾਨੀ ॥੬॥੩॥
 

When Kabir uses the word Ram, is he talking about Ram (as in God) or is he talking about Ramanand, his Guru.

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21 hours ago, tva prasad said:

do u actually have Vishnu g whispering in ur ear?

Nobody is whispering in my ear lol. I think he is referring to your other thread where I replied to Ragmaala saying "you must listen to and obey your inner Guru."

4 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

I think it's the other way round.

Lol

4 hours ago, amardeep said:

When Kabir uses the word Ram, is he talking about Ram (as in God) or is he talking about Ramanand, his Guru.

Yes. 

Kabir ji is talking about Ram that same way you might talk about Waheguru.
Ramanand ji also prescribed to this belief system, that's why he is named Ramanand.

So when I say Kabir ji meditates on Ram Chandra ji. This makes a lot of people uncomfortable because this is outside their view of reality. They start thinking is Kabir ji not worshipping Waheguru? Is he worshipping someone else?

No, Kabir ji is worshipping Waheguru. However he is calling Waheguru as Ram Chandra ji. Kabir ji does not use the word Waheguru once. He uses the epithets of Lord Ram.



So how do you find this out for yourself? The way you tell is what other words does he use and what kind of lore does he use, the epithets.

Kabir ji uses the following epithets -

ਰਘੁਪਤਿ - Raghupati - Master of Raghu clan
e.g. ਮਨ ਰੇ ਸਰਿਓ ਨ ਏਕੈ ਕਾਜਾ ॥ ਭਜਿਓ ਨ ਰਘੁਪਤਿ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੧॥

ਰਘੁ ਰਾਇ -  Raghu Rai  - King of Radhu clan
E.g. ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਭੋਲੇ ਭਾਇ ਮਿਲੇ ਰਘੁਰਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੬॥

ਸਾਰੰਗਧਰ/ ਸਾਰਿੰਗਧਰ  / ਸਾਰੰਗਪਾਣੀ Sharangdhar, Sharangpani, - Wielder of the Sharang Bow
E.g. ਤੋਹਿ ਚਰਨ ਮਨੁ ਲਾਗੋ ਸਾਰਿੰਗਧਰ ॥ ਸੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਜੋ ਬਡਭਾਗੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ / ਰਾਮ ਰਾਇ - Raja Ram, Ram Rai - King Ram
E.g. ਗਾਉ ਗਾਉ ਰੀ ਦੁਲਹਨੀ ਮੰਗਲਚਾਰਾ ॥ ਮੇਰੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਆਏ ਰਾਜਾ ਰਾਮ ਭਤਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥  ॥

many others as well.

This part of the analysis, is looking at their vocubulary and use of words.

There's more to it than that but you can start here and start thinking about what Kabir ji is saying and whose epithets he is using.

Looking at epithets and what they mean and where they originate, is a good place to start.


---

 

They do a lot of kirtan of this song in India. This sums it all up. Listen to it.  

If Kabir ji was alive today, he'd be enjoying this kirtan.

I imagine, he'd have it in his Ipod or whatever and be rocking to it, while operating machinery to make clothes in some factory. lol modern julaha

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21 hours ago, tva prasad said:

hanuman is one with ram g so there is no distinction between them so where ever there is ram there is hanuman g. Just as the drop falls into the ocean it becomes the ocean.

Exactly by meditating on Ram Naam, Hanuman ji merged with Ram ji. Atma merged into Parmatma. Droplet merged into Ocean.

Now the droplet is indistinguishable from Ocean.

So Bhagat Tulsidas ji says in Hanuman Chalisa (my translation) -

Ram rasayan tumhre pasa; sada raho Raghupati ke dasa.
You (Hanuman) possess the essence of Ram; you always remain the servant of the Raghu King.

Tumhre bhajan Ram ko pavai; janm janm ke dukh bisravai.
Those who sing your (Hanuman) praises obtain Ram; their suffering is eliminated in each birth.

Ant kaal Raghupatipur jaie; jahan janm Hari bhakt kahaie.
In the end, they enter the kingdom of Ram; and wherever they take birth they are known as the devotees of Hari.

Aur Devta chit na Dhar e; Hanumat sei sarv sukh kar e.
They don't need to worship any other deities, they can obtain all happiness and peace just from meditating on Hanuman.

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Just now, BhagatSingh said:

Exactly by meditating on Ram Naam, Hanuman ji merged with Ram ji. Atma merged into Parmatma. Droplet merged into Ocean.

Now the droplet is indistinguishable from Ocean.

So Bhagat Tulsidas ji says in Hanuman Chalisa (my translation) -

Ram rasayan tumhre pasa; sada raho Raghupati ke dasa.
You (Hanuman) possess the essence of Ram; you always remain the servant of the Raghu King.

Tumhre bhajan Ram ko pavai; janm janm ke dukh bisravai.
Those who sing your (Hanuman) praises obtain Ram; their suffering is eliminated in each birth.

Ant kaal Raghupatipur jaie; jahan janm Hari bhakt kahaie.
In the end, they enter the kingdom of Ram; and wherever they take birth they are known as the devotees of Hari.

Aur Devta chit na Dhar e; Hanumat sei sarv sukh kar e.
They don't need to worship any other deities, they can obtain all happiness and peace just from meditating on Hanuman.

just goes to show how high God's bhagts are.

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5 hours ago, tva prasad said:

just goes to show how high God's bhagts are.

Yes by chanting Ram naam, Kabir ji merged into Ram. By changing Ram naam, Hanuman ji merged into Ram.

God's devotees have merged into God. By singing their praises you can obtain God.

Kavi Kalya ji says -

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਚਰਣ ਕਵਲ ਰਿਦਿ ਧਾਰੰ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਅਰਜੁਨ ਗੁਣ ਸਹਜਿ ਬਿਚਾਰੰ ॥
Enshrine the feet of the True guru in your heart and patiently meditate on the virtues of Guru Arjun Dev ji.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I found out guru gobind Singh ji wrote anandpuri mahabharat and ramayan. The anandpuri mahabharat is a translation of the original scripture written by rishi vyas.

here's a link if u wish to read it:

https://m.facebook.com/925723734183338/photos/a.925747287514316.1073741828.925723734183338/1176821339073575/?type=3

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/12/2016 at 9:54 PM, tva prasad said:

I found out guru gobind Singh ji wrote anandpuri mahabharat and ramayan. The anandpuri mahabharat is a translation of the original scripture written by rishi vyas.

here's a link if u wish to read it:

https://m.facebook.com/925723734183338/photos/a.925747287514316.1073741828.925723734183338/1176821339073575/?type=3

The link says Kavi Tehkan wrote it.

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