paapiman Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 18 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Found a Hukam in Rehatnamey related to Parikarma. If you have studied in Taksaal, then who told you not do parikarma? I have heard Kathavachaks of Taksaal preaching in favour of Parikarma. ਹੈ ਅਨੰਦਪੁਰ ਪਰਮ ਸੁਹਾਵਨ ॥ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਸ਼ੁਭ ਸਭ ਮਨ ਭਾਵਨ ॥ ਹਰਿਮੰਦਰ ਪਟਨੈ ਮੈਂ ਜੋਈ ॥ ਦੱਖਣਿ ਅਬਚਲ ਨਗਰ ਸੋ ਹੋਈ ॥੧੭॥ ਤਹਾ ਜਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਕਰਮਾ ਕਰੈ ॥ ਯਥਾਸ਼ਕਤਿ ਕੁਛ ਭੇਟਾ ਧਰੈ ॥੧੮॥ Trimandeep Singh Which Rehatnama is that bro? Akali Singh probably meant that some people might call it Karam Kaand. Like some people might say that placing a coconut, during Akhand Paath is Karam Kaand, which makes no sense, as the coconut represent one's ego. Even Nihangs do Jhatka of Coconut, to symbolize that a person should try to destroy his ego by Gyan Kharag (Gurbani). @akali dilsidak singh Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, paapiman said: You are right (for the first point) bro, but Daas never said that Sarabloh is an AKJ invention. Sarabloh Bibek was practiced by Nihangs, before AKJ came into existence. Daas was asking, if AKJ believes that Paras Kala of Gurbani affects Sarabloh or not. Bhul chuk maaf Yes, it does effect. Also, please don't think I am a blind follower of AKJ. But I do oppose anyone who slanders AKJ or gursikhs of jatha because of different beliefs and rejects their opinions. (which I know you don't do) Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, paapiman said: Which Rehatnama is that bro? Probably, Bhai Desa Singh Rehatnama. 5 minutes ago, paapiman said: Like some people might say that placing a coconut, during Akhand Paath is Karam Kaand, which makes no sense, as the coconut represent one's ego. Even Nihangs do Jhatka of Coconut, to symbolize that a person should try to destroy his ego by Gyan Kharag (Gurbani). I don't think it is gurmat to do 'jhatka' of coconut. It maybe different from what the Hindus do. But these symbolizms have no place in gurmat. One may break coconuts and still have ego within. It's best to just do Gurbani Paath and naam jap. Why to remind oneself to destoy ego by breaking a coconut than to listen to Katha, Kirtan or simply do Paath? Gurbani is full of motivational panktis. Just pick one. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Also, please don't think I am a blind follower of AKJ. But I do oppose anyone who slanders AKJ or gursikhs of jatha because of different beliefs and rejects their opinions. (which I know you don't do) Daas understand your point bro. Sikhs must never do Ninda of anyone, which includes other Jathebandis, Religions, Devi, Devte, Nabi, etc. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: I don't think it is gurmat to do 'jhatka' of coconut. It maybe different from what the Hindus do. But these symbolizms have no place in gurmat. One may break coconuts and still have ego within. It's best to just do Gurbani Paath and naam jap. Why to remind oneself to destoy ego by breaking a coconut than to listen to Katha, Kirtan or simply do Paath? Symbolism is very important at times, so that we can learn from it. If a person is not leaning from it, then the fault lies with the person, not with the Ritual. Gurparsaad, we will discuss this in a separate topic. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, paapiman said: Daas understand your point bro. Sikhs must never do Ninda of anyone, which includes other Jathebandis, Religions, Devi, Devte, Nabi, etc. Bhul chuk maaf True. 5 minutes ago, paapiman said: Symbolism is very important at times, so that we can learn from it. If a person is not leaning from it, then the fault lies with the person, not with the Ritual. Worshipping idols, bowing towards a specific direction, bowing in front of Qabars (coffins), Rakhi (rakhri), are all symbolism which are rejected by Sikhism even though we can learn from them. From Idol worship, we should worship Vaheguru. From Bowing in front of Qabars, we should respect Sants and mahapurush. From Rakhi, we should protect anyone in need. Trimandeep Singh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Worshipping idols, bowing towards a specific direction, bowing in front of Qabars (coffins), Rakhi (rakhri), are all symbolism which are rejected by Sikhism even though we can learn from them. From Idol worship, we should worship Vaheguru. From Bowing in front of Qabars, we should respect Sants and mahapurush. From Rakhi, we should protect anyone in need. As Daas mentioned before, we will discuss this issue in a separate topic. Some of the rituals you have mentioned above cannot be compared to Jhatka, which is a Sikh ritual practiced by Puratan Sampradas. Let's stay on the topic here. Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, paapiman said: Let's stay on the topic here Okay 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 19 hours ago, paapiman said: @Trimandeep Singh - Daas found this. Please have a look below. If Vedas indicate that the "Sound Energy" (from the Mantars) can be combined with the "Heat Energy" (from the Havan Kund), then Gurmat Havan will definitely be very powerful (if done by a Naam Raisya Gurmukh). Quote We all know that the energy can neither be produced nor be destroyed but it can be transformed into one form to another form. Here in the process of Yagya are involved two biggest energies i.e. sound (as Vedic hymns) and heat (as kindled in Yajna Kund) which transform the energy from one form to another beneficial energy which is for the physical, psychological and spiritual well being of human. Unquote [1] [1] - The Science behind Yajna, यज्ञ! - ReSanskrit Bhul chuk maaf @Trimandeep Singh - If you believe that Paras Kala of Gurbani can affect Water, Land and Sarabloh, then you should have no problem in believing that it will definitely have an effect on Fire too. If Vedic Mantars (which are less powerful than Gurbani Mantars) can have an effect on Fire, then Gurbani will definitely have an effect on Fire. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 Just now, paapiman said: If Vedic Mantars (which are less powerful than Gurbani Mantars) can have an effect on Fire, then Gurbani will definitely have an effect on Fire. A human is saying this. This doesn't mean that it is true. It may be, but we haven't found any panktis which say that Gurbani will have effect on fire (not talking about Yagya, havan. I think the fire related panktis can help us in interpreting the panktis related to havan/yagya). I am not saying that Gurbani has limited paras Kala but I am questioning the way the effect on fire transfers to us (like in case of water, we drink that water) Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrigued Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: There are many benefits of Sarbloh and I have heard that the energy multiplies when bani is read near water or food in sarbloh baata. I think that Sarbloh is a special metal. Since it is also mentioned in Sri Akal Ustat. Even on a more simpler level, a benefit of keeping that rehit is that one will intake more iron 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trimandeep Singh Posted June 7, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 52 minutes ago, intrigued said: Even on a more simpler level, a benefit of keeping that rehit is that one will intake more iron Yes, it has many benefits. Paapiman's point is also relevant that if Baani can have effect on Sarbloh then why not fire? I think we need vichar of people who oppose Havan too. We are no scholars. I think after listening to the opinions of both sides, we will be able to conclude. @paapiman ji will try to find Katha of any Kathvachaks who favour and oppose Havan. Trimandeep Singh 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 On 6/7/2021 at 9:08 AM, Trimandeep Singh said: I am not saying that Gurbani has limited paras Kala but I am questioning the way the effect on fire transfers to us (like in case of water, we drink that water) There are two ways, in which Havan Kund is transferring something to us: Through skin (absorbing the heat produced by the Havan Kund) Through nasal passage (inhaling the vapors produced by the Havan Kund) Now, we just have to find Gurbani verses, which clearly support Havan. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 On 6/2/2021 at 11:52 AM, paapiman said: Was Hawan Designed to Fight Anxiety-Scientific Evidences? Was Hawan Designed to Fight Anxiety-Scientific Evidences? | SpringerLink Bhul chuk maaf Sitting around a fire has some benefits, which will apply to sitting around a Havan Kund too. Please have a look at the article below. Benefits of Sitting Around a Fire | The Outdoor Greatroom Company (outdoorrooms.com) Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 On 6/7/2021 at 9:08 AM, Trimandeep Singh said: A human is saying this. This doesn't mean that it is true. It may be, but we haven't found any panktis which say that Gurbani will have effect on fire (not talking about Yagya, havan. I think the fire related panktis can help us in interpreting the panktis related to havan/yagya). I am not saying that Gurbani has limited paras Kala but I am questioning the way the effect on fire transfers to us (like in case of water, we drink that water) Btw, bro, which Gurbani verses clearly state that Paras Kala of Gurbani affects water? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 hour ago, paapiman said: Btw, bro, which Gurbani verses clearly state that Paras Kala of Gurbani affects water? Bhul chuk maaf I will try to find Gurbani panktis. But, I don't think there is any need to prove this because Satguru Ji already showed the whole world, the effect of Gurbani on water in 1699. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 17 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: But, I don't think there is any need to prove this because Satguru Ji already showed the whole world, the effect of Gurbani on water in 1699. Similarly, Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) showed the whole world the effect on Gurbani on Fire before Amrit Sanchar. Gurmat Havan was done by Maharaaj, in order to manifest the Sri Aad Shakti of Sri Waheguru jee. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, paapiman said: Similarly, Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) showed the whole world the effect on Gurbani on Fire before Amrit Sanchar. Gurmat Havan was done by Maharaaj, in order to manifest the Sri Aad Shakti of Sri Waheguru jee. Bhul chuk maaf This 'Gurmat heaven' is not at all mentioned in the letter of the spy of Aurangzeb who was sent by him to send daily reports about events in Sri Anandpur Sahib. The spy was the eye witness of the first Khande di Pahaul Amrit Sanchaar. He was so much amazed by Guru Sahib's Kala that he too became a gursikh and sent back a letter to Aurangzeb stating that he will no longer serve him. His letters are still present at Aligarh University. These Havan things were rejected by many jatha scholars. Also, we shouldn't forget that Kavi Santokh Singh Ji collected these stories without any bias so he just recorded instead of scrutinizing for which the panth is thankful to him. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 @Trimandeep Singh - Please listen to the katah below. Chandi Pargat Hona - Katha by Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji part 1 - YouTube @Soulfinder Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, paapiman said: @Trimandeep Singh - Please listen to the katah below. Chandi Pargat Hona - Katha by Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji part 1 - YouTube @Soulfinder Bhul chuk maaf Giani ji is in favor of Havan so why wouldn't he accept this story? Bring some stuff from anti-havan Gianis too. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: This 'Gurmat heaven' is not at all mentioned in the letter of the spy of Aurangzeb who was sent by him to send daily reports about events in Sri Anandpur Sahib. The spy was the eye witness of the first Khande di Pahaul Amrit Sanchaar. He was so much amazed by Guru Sahib's Kala that he too became a gursikh and sent back a letter to Aurangzeb stating that he will no longer serve him. His letters are still present at Aligarh University. The Gurmat Havan was not done on the Visakhi day in 1699. It was done (before the Visakhi day in 1699) for many months, until Sri Aad Shakti manifested itself. Sri Chandi dee Vaar saab, Sri Bhagauti Braham Kavach saab, Sri Achkarra Chand saab, etc, were recited by Maharaaj during the Havan ceremony. It was probably done on a hill top. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfinder Posted June 8, 2021 Report Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 hour ago, paapiman said: @Trimandeep Singh - Please listen to the katah below. Chandi Pargat Hona - Katha by Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji part 1 - YouTube @Soulfinder Bhul chuk maaf 678166381_ChandiPargatHona-KathabyGianiBabaInderjitSinghJipart1_low.webm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 19 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: He was so much amazed by Guru Sahib's Kala that he too became a gursikh and sent back a letter to Aurangzeb stating that he will no longer serve him. His letters are still present at Aligarh University. Did they find those letters? @dalsingh101 - Those letters were not found right? @chatanga1 Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 9, 2021 Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 hours ago, paapiman said: Did they find those letters? @dalsingh101 - Those letters were not found right? @chatanga1 Bhul chuk maaf Those purported letters were never found in the Aligarh university archives. Note that Grewal and Habib's edited book: Persian sources of Sikh history used some Farsi scholars from Aligarh Uni to translate important Persian sources on Sikh ithihaas, the above isn't included, presumably because it doesn't exist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2021 2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said: Those purported letters were never found in the Aligarh university archives. Note that Grewal and Habib's edited book: Persian sources of Sikh history used some Farsi scholars from Aligarh Uni to translate important Persian sources on Sikh ithihaas, the above isn't included, presumably because it doesn't exist. @Trimandeep Singh - Please do read the above comment by Dal Singh jee Who was the first person, who mentioned about these letters? Is it possible that the British destroyed those letters? Also, both Sri Sooraj Prakash and Sri Pracheen Panth Prakash state that Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) did Jhatka of goats before the First Amrit Sanchar. Is that right? @dalsingh101 @chatanga1 Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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