Durga Kavach

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, KaalSevak said:

She hasn't "earned" the right to be worshipped, if she's incapable of granting Mukhti then why would any Sikh want anything to do with her? The only person who "earned" the right to be worshipped was Vishnu Bhagwan. He did the proper aradhana and then begged Akaal Purakh Ji to allow people to woship him as God. Akaal Purakh Ji granted it.

In Gurbani?

And for the record. Nothing I'm saying is missionary.  

[KaalSevak]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

In Gurbani?

Again, all you're doing is reading the translations. As I've said Multiple times You can translate Durga to mean the Unconquerable one, You're doing the EXACT same tactics that missionaries . You look at the word and suddenly associate it with the Devta, The missionaries use this to discredit Dasam Bani and you're using it to further confuse yourself and others. Take for example at the end of Rama Avtar, Guru Sahib writes "Bishan Bhagat ki eh phal hoyi" The translators (which you're relying on) translate it to mean Vishnu Devta, But the actual Arth is referencing Bishan (The one who resides everywhere, aka Akaal purakh). The entire bani of Uggardanti is referencing a Formeless Entity, that's why the being that is Eulogised is  also described as being Krishan, Parasram, Bavan, Rukhmani, Kaushilya, Durbasha too. I'm sorry but have you done Santhiya of Dasam? Can you read Gurmukhi? 

I just showed you a quote where Adi Bani that literally said she cant grant Salvation, so tell me why Guru Gobind Singh Ji would eulogise her?  For the record this view is also propagated by Nihang Kathavach too. Here's proof of that.

 

Quote

ਤੁਹੀਹਰਿਸਿਮਰਿਕਰਭਈਜੋਗਧਯਾਣੀ॥

I'll turn to this to point out the inconsistencies in the translation, since its easy pickings. The translator has translated "ਜੋਗ" as worthy and "ਧਯਾਣੀ" as worship. Both are off base, ਜੋਗ can also mean Yoga or union, "ਧਯਾਣੀ" means to focus on. That tukh can easily be translated as "You're also the one who mediates on God, using the methods of Yoga" 

Before we continue this, I need to ask 3 questions. 

1) can you read Gurmukhi and understand it

2) Have you completed Santhiya and full katha of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Ji

3) are you reading the translation or the bani? 

 

[dalsingh101]

6 hours ago, KaalSevak said:

At no point did I say a Sikh should sit on his ass, eating and getting fat while phering a mala. Nor did I say a Sikh shouldn't be training in Martial arts. Sant Ji also trained, as did every other Mahapurakh. What I meant was by Bhakti was that you need to be strong in spirit and appease Akaal so that your task (which requires Shakti) will also be fulfilled, you can't do anything without power and that power for us comes from Gurbani (ergo Bhakti). That's why Singhs did Jaaps of Dasam bani before going into war, that's why we do Ardaas before embarking on any task. doing Jaap of Dasam bani is a form of Bhakti. That's why Nihangs even say Bani first then Bana. Apologises if that wasnt clear enough on my part, english isn't my first language. 

Like said before. Your English is actually better than some indigenous people. But it's sad that we've lost our true martial heritage. Here's hoping for a renaissance, and soon too. 

 

Problem is that a lot of people hide behind bhagti. When I was younger it was commonly said that if you just do bhagti, Guru ji would instantly make you a super warrior when it was required. That was a cop out of the highest degree.   

[GurjantGnostic]

6 hours ago, KaalSevak said:

Again, all you're doing is reading the translations. As I've said Multiple times You can translate Durga to mean the Unconquerable one, You're doing the EXACT same tactics that missionaries . You look at the word and suddenly associate it with the Devta, The missionaries use this to discredit Dasam Bani and you're using it to further confuse yourself and others. Take for example at the end of Rama Avtar, Guru Sahib writes "Bishan Bhagat ki eh phal hoyi" The translators (which you're relying on) translate it to mean Vishnu Devta, But the actual Arth is referencing Bishan (The one who resides everywhere, aka Akaal purakh). The entire bani of Uggardanti is referencing a Formeless Entity, that's why the being that is Eulogised is  also described as being Krishan, Parasram, Bavan, Rukhmani, Kaushilya, Durbasha too. I'm sorry but have you done Santhiya of Dasam? Can you read Gurmukhi? 

I just showed you a quote where Adi Bani that literally said she cant grant Salvation, so tell me why Guru Gobind Singh Ji would eulogise her?  For the record this view is also propagated by Nihang Kathavach too. Here's proof of that.

 

I'll turn to this to point out the inconsistencies in the translation, since its easy pickings. The translator has translated "ਜੋਗ" as worthy and "ਧਯਾਣੀ" as worship. Both are off base, ਜੋਗ can also mean Yoga or union, "ਧਯਾਣੀ" means to focus on. That tukh can easily be translated as "You're also the one who mediates on God, using the methods of Yoga" 

Before we continue this, I need to ask 3 questions. 

1) can you read Gurmukhi and understand it

2) Have you completed Santhiya and full katha of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Dasam Granth Ji

3) are you reading the translation or the bani? 

 

You sound like a muslim bro. I keep asking quran and you keep coming back with hadiths. Then turn to the "are you even an arabic speaker" argument lol. 

So would I say you sound like a missionary? No I'd say you sound like a muslim. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Bro. Just search all Gurbani for Durga and get back to me. This issue is between you and Guru Sahiban not you and me. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Feel free to retranslate everything and submit it to STTM. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Oh and the Vishnu Bhagwan reference please. In Gurbani. 

[GurjantGnostic]

3 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Like said before. Your English is actually better than some indigenous people. But it's sad that we've lost our true martial heritage. Here's hoping for a renaissance, and soon too. 

 

Problem is that a lot of people hide behind bhagti. When I was younger it was commonly said that if you just do bhagti, Guru ji would instantly make you a super warrior when it was required. That was a cop out of the highest degree.   

It's good training, when under occupation and unable to afford the time to train constantly, to subsidize with Bhakti. 

But that requires you know Naam and Shashtar Vidya before the Bhakti phase starts. 

But if you do know those things, you can turn all work into Shastar Vidya Bkahti. 

It is no substitution, it's a temporary replacement. 

Prime example me with Aikido. Done it so much before that anything I do can be Aikido...now...but that wouldn't be true if I never trained and didn't know Simran. 

[GurjantGnostic]

6 hours ago, KaalSevak said:

I just showed you a quote where Adi Bani that literally said she cant grant Salvation, so tell me why Guru Gobind Singh Ji would eulogise her?

You tell me. 

[KaalSevak]

6 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

You sound like a muslim bro. I keep asking quran and you keep coming back with hadiths. Then turn to the "are you even an arabic speaker" argument lol. 

So would I say you sound like a missionary? No I'd say you sound like a muslim. 

I quoted this ALL from Gurbani, This was from Rama Avtar written by Guru Gobind SIngh Ji. I quoted Chandi Di Vaar from Dasam Granth, Iv posted katha from learned scholars on this, even one done by a Kathavach from Buddha Dal. But no, they're all wrong. You're translations are 100% right. I'm asking again, can you read and translate Gurbani? Can you read the Gurmukhi Script? Why wouldn't that be a logical discussion? If you want to discuss the Quran, go learn it in its original script. I say the exact same thing about Gurmukhi. 

I said you were doing WHAT the missionaries do, not that you were. Missionaries purposely translate certain words to mean a Devta and then use it to discredit Dasam Bani. You're doing the same, the only difference is you're not using it to discredit the bani but to propagate that Guru Sahib said Chandi is worth doing Pooja of.

Quote

Bro. Just search all Gurbani for Durga and get back to me. This issue is between you and Guru Sahiban not you and me. 

 

Iv had Santhiya of Dasam and Adi Bani. I've already shown you quotes where Durga cant grant Salvations. Like I said she's a Lehar (a wave) of Adi SHakti, not its Sargun form. The Sargun form of Adi Shakti is the Khanda. He didn't worship Durga but was worshipping Akaal Shakti, same way Guru sahib doesn't worship Ram Chandar Ji but Ram (the all pervading God). There's plenty of nuance, you won't understand it until you've had proper education on this. Do you want me to post Katha from more learned scholars? Did you listen to Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji's katha? or even Bhai Surjeet Singh Ji? He's a nihang who was taught katha and santhiya of the bani by Buddha Dal. But let me guess, he's also wrong? 

This isn't an issue with between myself and Guru Sahib. The issue is you're misrepresenting his bani using translations and then backing off because you're position isn't held by any other esteemed Scholar.

Quote

Feel free to retranslate everything and submit it to STTM. 

Quote frankly, I don't have the time to sit down and retranslate a bani. So post stuff you want retranslated, providing i have the time. There's plenty of people here who can do some form of translations @chatanga1 @dalsingh101 can help you . But the fact you can't read it is worrying, especially when you're on this forum trying to discuss it.  Why are you flitting around the subject? Can you read Gurmukhi or not?

Quote

Oh and the Vishnu Bhagwan reference please. In Gurbani. 

 

I'll do you better. Here's the verse before it too, Brahma got cursed for being arrogant. After he got cursed, he meditated on God and Akaash bani told him to do Bhakti and Jaap. Brahma then went and fell at the feet of Chandi, here's what she said.

ਪਰਿ ਪਾਇ ਚੰਡਿ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡ ॥  ਜਿਹ ਮੰਡ ਦੁਸਟ ਅਖੰਡ ॥

(Brahma) Fell at the feel of the illustrious Chandi, the one who cut cut the demon Mund into many pieces.

ਜ੍ਵਾਲਾਛ ਲੋਚਨ ਧੂਮ ॥

The one who killed Jawalash (a demon with red eyes), Lochan Doom (he could produce smoke that could blow up mountains). 

ਹਨਿ ਜਾਸੁ ਡਾਰੇ ਭੂਮਿ ॥੨੮॥

With Great Vigour, she killed them and threw them onto the earth.

ਤਿਸੁ ਜਾਪਿ ਹੋ ਜਬ ਜਾਪ ॥

(Chandi responded) By doing Jaap (meditating), and on its completion.

ਤਬ ਹੋਇ ਪੂਰਨ ਸ੍ਰਾਪ ॥

Then your curse will be complete (i.e lifted).

ਉਠਿ ਲਾਗ ਕਾਲ ਜਪੰਨ ॥

So Brahma got up and meditated on the Supreme Destroyer Lord (Kaal).

ਹਠਿ ਤਿਆਗ ਆਵ ਸਰੰਨ ॥੨੯॥

By forsaking everything else, he entered the refugee of Akaal.

So here's Chandi telling Brahma to go and worship God. He tried your method and it completely failed, he went to worship her and she rebuked him and told him to go do Seva of Waheguru. She couldn't do anything to lift his curse. Here's a reference which again backs my translation up. 

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudhikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)/Sri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha/10_Brahma_Avtar_Katha/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.Dhudhikey.(Vidyarthi.Sampardai.Bhindra)--333.-.Brahma.Avtar.Katha.02.mp3 from 15:00

I'll assume you can't understand Punjabi by the look of things, I'll tell you what is said by this scholar. He says that Devi is the servant of Akaal Purakh, she gets her power from doing his seva by sweeping his floors. She also kills her own followers if they harm anyone who worships Akaal Purakh. He includes Sakhis in there of various people seeing Devi sweeping Guru Sahib's floor. He recites times of 1st Master, 2nd Master and also 9th Master where she came to do Seva of Maharaj. He's also a Sampardayic scholar. Done Katha on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, full katha on Dasam Garnth Ji and also on Suraj Prakash, Bhai Gurdas Ji vaaran. I could go on. 

Here's the tukh about Vishnu. Some background since you can't read the bani. Brahma spent 10 lakh years doing Bhakti of Akaal Purakh Ji and eventually Akaal Purakh Ji spoke to him, telling him that he fell out of favour due to his arrogance and he needs to assume various incarnations to redeem himself.

Here's the tukh regarding Vishnu. 

ਇਕ ਕਹੋ ਔਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥ ਸੁਨਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੁਮਾਰ ॥੩੬॥

Listen to one more thing Brahma my son.

ਇਕ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਧਿਆਨ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਰਿਝਾਨ ॥

There is Vishnu who meditated on me, he did alot of Seva (service) and this pleased me.

ਤਿਨਿ ਮਾਗਿਆ ਬਰ ਐਸ ॥ ਮਮ ਦੀਨ ਤਾ ਕਹੁ ਤੈਸ ॥੩੭॥

 He asked for a boon, that which I granted and will tell you.

ਮਮ ਤਾਸ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਸਬ ਲੋਕ ਜਾਨਤ ਸੋਇ ॥

He asked that people know that there is no difference between us.

ਤਿਹ ਜਾਨ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥ ਸਬ ਲੋਕ ਅਲੋਕ ਪਹਾਰ ॥੩੮॥

He asked that People know him to be the creator, that people in this world, the unseen world and the people who reside in mountains.

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudhikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)/Sri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha/10_Brahma_Avtar_Katha/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.Dhudhikey.(Vidyarthi.Sampardai.Bhindra)--333.-.Brahma.Avtar.Katha.02.mp3

From 22:00.

6 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

You tell me. 

I have told you. You keep purposely using the translation in the final stanza to mean Durga Devi, when its a reference to Akaal Purakh Ji or Akaal Shakti. There's multiple translation of the word "Durga". 

[GurjantGnostic]

59 minutes ago, KaalSevak said:

I quoted this ALL from Gurbani, This was from Rama Avtar written by Guru Gobind SIngh Ji. I quoted Chandi Di Vaar from Dasam Granth, Iv posted katha from learned scholars on this, even one done by a Kathavach from Buddha Dal. But no, they're all wrong. You're translations are 100% right. I'm asking again, can you read and translate Gurbani? Can you read the Gurmukhi Script? Why wouldn't that be a logical discussion? If you want to discuss the Quran, go learn it in its original script. I say the exact same thing about Gurmukhi. 

I said you were doing WHAT the missionaries do, not that you were. Missionaries purposely translate certain words to mean a Devta and then use it to discredit Dasam Bani. You're doing the same, the only difference is you're not using it to discredit the bani but to propagate that Guru Sahib said Chandi is worth doing Pooja of.

Iv had Santhiya of Dasam and Adi Bani. I've already shown you quotes where Durga cant grant Salvations. Like I said she's a Lehar (a wave) of Adi SHakti, not its Sargun form. The Sargun form of Adi Shakti is the Khanda. He didn't worship Durga but was worshipping Akaal Shakti, same way Guru sahib doesn't worship Ram Chandar Ji but Ram (the all pervading God). There's plenty of nuance, you won't understand it until you've had proper education on this. Do you want me to post Katha from more learned scholars? Did you listen to Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji's katha? or even Bhai Surjeet Singh Ji? He's a nihang who was taught katha and santhiya of the bani by Buddha Dal. But let me guess, he's also wrong? 

This isn't an issue with between myself and Guru Sahib. The issue is you're misrepresenting his bani using translations and then backing off because you're position isn't held by any other esteemed Scholar.

Quote frankly, I don't have the time to sit down and retranslate a bani. So post stuff you want retranslated, providing i have the time. There's plenty of people here who can do some form of translations @chatanga1 @dalsingh101 can help you . But the fact you can't read it is worrying, especially when you're on this forum trying to discuss it.  Why are you flitting around the subject? Can you read Gurmukhi or not?

I'll do you better. Here's the verse before it too, Brahma got cursed for being arrogant. After he got cursed, he meditated on God and Akaash bani told him to do Bhakti and Jaap. Brahma then went and fell at the feet of Chandi, here's what she said.

ਪਰਿ ਪਾਇ ਚੰਡਿ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡ ॥  ਜਿਹ ਮੰਡ ਦੁਸਟ ਅਖੰਡ ॥

(Brahma) Fell at the feel of the illustrious Chandi, the one who cut cut the demon Mund into many pieces.

ਜ੍ਵਾਲਾਛ ਲੋਚਨ ਧੂਮ ॥

The one who killed Jawalash (a demon with red eyes), Lochan Doom (he could produce smoke that could blow up mountains). 

ਹਨਿ ਜਾਸੁ ਡਾਰੇ ਭੂਮਿ ॥੨੮॥

With Great Vigour, she killed them and threw them onto the earth.

ਤਿਸੁ ਜਾਪਿ ਹੋ ਜਬ ਜਾਪ ॥

(Chandi responded) By doing Jaap (meditating), and on its completion.

ਤਬ ਹੋਇ ਪੂਰਨ ਸ੍ਰਾਪ ॥

Then your curse will be complete (i.e lifted).

ਉਠਿ ਲਾਗ ਕਾਲ ਜਪੰਨ ॥

So Brahma got up and meditated on the Supreme Destroyer Lord (Kaal).

ਹਠਿ ਤਿਆਗ ਆਵ ਸਰੰਨ ॥੨੯॥

By forsaking everything else, he entered the refugee of Akaal.

So here's Chandi telling Brahma to go and worship God. He tried your method and it completely failed, he went to worship her and she rebuked him and told him to go do Seva of Waheguru. She couldn't do anything to lift his curse. Here's a reference which again backs my translation up. 

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudhikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)/Sri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha/10_Brahma_Avtar_Katha/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.Dhudhikey.(Vidyarthi.Sampardai.Bhindra)--333.-.Brahma.Avtar.Katha.02.mp3 from 15:00

I'll assume you can't understand Punjabi by the look of things, I'll tell you what is said by this scholar. He says that Devi is the servant of Akaal Purakh, she gets her power from doing his seva by sweeping his floors. She also kills her own followers if they harm anyone who worships Akaal Purakh. He includes Sakhis in there of various people seeing Devi sweeping Guru Sahib's floor. He recites times of 1st Master, 2nd Master and also 9th Master where she came to do Seva of Maharaj. He's also a Sampardayic scholar. Done Katha on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, full katha on Dasam Garnth Ji and also on Suraj Prakash, Bhai Gurdas Ji vaaran. I could go on. 

Here's the tukh about Vishnu. Some background since you can't read the bani. Brahma spent 10 lakh years doing Bhakti of Akaal Purakh Ji and eventually Akaal Purakh Ji spoke to him, telling him that he fell out of favour due to his arrogance and he needs to assume various incarnations to redeem himself.

Here's the tukh regarding Vishnu. 

ਇਕ ਕਹੋ ਔਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥ ਸੁਨਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕੁਮਾਰ ॥੩੬॥

Listen to one more thing Brahma my son.

ਇਕ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮੋਹਿ ਧਿਆਨ ॥ ਬਹੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਮੋਹਿ ਰਿਝਾਨ ॥

There is Vishnu who meditated on me, he did alot of Seva (service) and this pleased me.

ਤਿਨਿ ਮਾਗਿਆ ਬਰ ਐਸ ॥ ਮਮ ਦੀਨ ਤਾ ਕਹੁ ਤੈਸ ॥੩੭॥

 He asked for a boon, that which I granted and will tell you.

ਮਮ ਤਾਸ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਸਬ ਲੋਕ ਜਾਨਤ ਸੋਇ ॥

He asked that people know that there is no difference between us.

ਤਿਹ ਜਾਨ ਹੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ॥ ਸਬ ਲੋਕ ਅਲੋਕ ਪਹਾਰ ॥੩੮॥

He asked that People know him to be the creator, that people in this world, the unseen world and the people who reside in mountains.

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Giani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudhikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)/Sri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha/10_Brahma_Avtar_Katha/Giani.Harbhajan.Singh.Dhudhikey.(Vidyarthi.Sampardai.Bhindra)--333.-.Brahma.Avtar.Katha.02.mp3

From 22:00.

I have told you. You keep purposely using the translation in the final stanza to mean Durga Devi, when its a reference to Akaal Purakh Ji or Akaal Shakti. There's multiple translation of the word "Durga". 

You mistake that I have a point. I don't. Somebody asked about Durga. We looked it up. Posted the Gurbani. 

I'm not debating you, I'm just pointing out where in Gurbani people get the ideas they have. 

I don't see why you accused me of being a missionary, I'm a dude...posting Gurbani with the other dudes. 

I didn't have time to watch the vids. I will. But I'm sticking to Gurbani right now, because there's too much adjusted word of mouth out there and so so Katha. 

If you look at your initial responses there isn't much Gurbani quoted and you seemed to ignore what I posted. 

I'm all for hearing your breakdown on Durga without being maligned as a missionary, who I also don't think should be maligned per se but communicated with. 

The part on Vishnu sounds about lile Durga but she didn't have to ask nor ask. 

I mean no matter how you cut it, if you're worried only ever pray to Akal. That's my own bias actually. 

If you go back to the initial claims about Durga you will see me saying what you're saying. 

I just stumbled on the Gurbani while researching what somebody else asked about and posted it. 

[GurjantGnostic]

And you need to talk to the scholars bro. They did the translation. And if you have the ability but refuse to improve upon them that's on you. 

But it is not okay to blame someone for reading the english bro. The english written about Gurbani not by me ...by y'all. 

When I have time and interest I do look up each word. And one day I will read the Gurmukhi thank you bro.  But I don't have time to do that, pasting Gurbani on someone else's topic of interest, in the middle of endless 12 hour graveyard shifts. I can only now take some time to watch a video and I'm not sold on the quality of videos. I'd like to avoid them until more versed. They were good for initial phase, but if at my low level I can detect innacuracy, it means I need to study deeply to properly contend. 

I just searched bro. Calm down. I'll be still searching and posting many things, it's not that big a deal. 

 

[KaalSevak]

18 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

You mistake that I have a point. I don't. Somebody asked about Durga. We looked it up. Posted the Gurbani. 

No, you posted a faulty translation. Then built a case around it. 

Quote

I'm not debating you, I'm just pointing out where in Gurbani people get the ideas they have. 

People get these ideas because no one yet has done a proper Sampardayic english translation of Sri Dasam Granth. The translations done are done by those who haven't done santhiya or taken proper Vidya in the granth. I'd much rather trust someone like Giani Harbhajan Singh Ji who spent his entire life studying Gurmat Granths than some internet dude with spare time.

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If you look at your initial responses there isn't much Gurbani quoted and you seemed to ignore what I posted. 

I've posted Gurbani, I even retranslated what you said. How much more spoonfeeding should I do?

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I'm all for hearing your breakdown on Durga without being maligned as a missionary, who I also don't think should be maligned per se but communicated with. 

I swear, I never called you a missionary, I said you're employing the same tactics they use except in reverse.

Quote

The part on Vishnu sounds about lile Durga but she didn't have to ask nor ask. 

yes, that's why Bhagat Naamdev Ji  critised her and said "why do you hide when Salvation needs to be done". She's a sweeper of Paramatma's door, she takes the dust from there to granth boons (reference- Nanak prakash). Brahma literallyyyyyy went to her, asked for her to take his curse away and she flat out said I cant and he needs to do Bhakti. To even suggest that Guru Sahib would worship or tell Sikhs its ok to worship someone like that is just plain stupid.

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I mean no matter how you cut it, if you're worried only ever pray to Akal. That's my own bias actually. 

There's an exact sakhi about the nonsense you're trying to propagate. A man saw a bunch of Sants doing Hari bhajan and told them they should worship Devi. So they told him go and ask her for salvation. He went away and did his meditation, she appears before him and he asks her. She flat out says, I don't have the power for that. So he left her charan and left her. He even rebuked her with the a similar line to Bhagat Naamdev Ji (reference- Gurbani Arth Bhandar). 

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I just stumbled on the Gurbani while researching what somebody else asked about and posted it. 

 

Gurbani you know nothing about. This is why we have so many problems in the panth. People like you who have no education in the Granths, turning to people who also dont have any education who then write faulty translations and then you take them as gospel. 

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And you need to talk to the scholars bro. They did the translation. And if you have the ability but refuse to improve upon them that's on you. 

What scholar? Please list his name. Is a bigger Scholar than Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji? Sant Ji is known as Vidya Martand and many prominent scholars all studied under him. How about Baba Teja Singh Mehron Wale? He studied under 3 different Sikh gyani schools (Taksal, Nirmale and Nihangs) and even his Teeka refers to a difference between Durga and Adi Shakti. Giani Harbhajan Singh Ji studied up Taksal too. But noooo all these prominent purakhs who spent their entire life researching Granths are all failures and you alone have stumbled onto the truth by reading one translation that was clumsily done.

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But it is not okay to blame someone for reading the english bro. The english written about Gurbani not by me ...by y'all. 

So don't get into these discussions about things you're not familiar with, I dont do any form of discussion about Sri sarbloh Granth as I have no knowledge of it and haven't been blessed with its Santhiya and katha yet. You can't read Gurmukhi or understand Gurbani but you're sitting here drawing up daft theories. You're the exact definition of a Khaapi Sikh.

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When I have time and interest I do look up each word. And one day I will read the Gurmukhi thank you bro.  But I don't have time to do that, pasting Gurbani on someone else's topic of interest, in the middle of endless 12 hour graveyard shifts. I can only now take some time to watch a video and I'm not sold on the quality of videos. I'd like to avoid them until more versed. They were good for initial phase, but if at my low level I can detect innacuracy, it means I need to study deeply to properly contend. 

The videos are from Eminent scholars of the Panth. If you dont want to listen to their views and want to stick to your own manmat then go nuts.

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I just searched bro. Calm down. I'll be still searching and posting many things, it's not that big a deal. 

I'm pretty calm here, I just find it hilarious how the khoj that Sikhawareness was known for is now people refusing to read the Gurbani and relying on translations. Hilarious.

[GurjantGnostic]

1 minute ago, KaalSevak said:

No, you posted a faulty translation. Then built a case around it. 

People get these ideas because no one yet has done a proper Sampardayic english translation of Sri Dasam Granth. The translations done are done by those who haven't done santhiya or taken proper Vidya in the granth. I'd much rather trust someone like Giani Harbhajan Singh Ji who spent his entire life studying Gurmat Granths than some internet dude with spare time.

I've posted Gurbani, I even retranslated what you said. How much more spoonfeeding should I do?

I swear, I never called you a missionary, I said you're employing the same tactics they use except in reverse.

yes, that's why Bhagat Naamdev Ji  critised her and said "why do you hide when Salvation needs to be done". She's a sweeper of Paramatma's door, she takes the dust from there to granth boons (reference- Nanak prakash). Brahma literallyyyyyy went to her, asked for her to take his curse away and she flat out said I cant and he needs to do Bhakti. To even suggest that Guru Sahib would worship or tell Sikhs its ok to worship someone like that is just plain stupid.

There's an exact sakhi about the nonsense you're trying to propagate. A man saw a bunch of Sants doing Hari bhajan and told them they should worship Devi. So they told him go and ask her for salvation. He went away and did his meditation, she appears before him and he asks her. She flat out says, I don't have the power for that. So he left her charan and left her. He even rebuked her with the a similar line to Bhagat Naamdev Ji (reference- Gurbani Arth Bhandar). 

Gurbani you know nothing about. This is why we have so many problems in the panth. People like you who have no education in the Granths, turning to people who also dont have any education who then write faulty translations and then you take them as gospel. 

What scholar? Please list his name. Is a bigger Scholar than Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji? Sant Ji is known as Vidya Martand and many prominent scholars all studied under him. How about Baba Teja Singh Mehron Wale? He studied under 3 different Sikh gyani schools (Taksal, Nirmale and Nihangs) and even his Teeka refers to a difference between Durga and Adi Shakti. Giani Harbhajan Singh Ji studied up Taksal too. But noooo all these prominent purakhs who spent their entire life researching Granths are all failures and you alone have stumbled onto the truth by reading one translation that was clumsily done.

So don't get into these discussions about things you're not familiar with, I dont do any form of discussion about Sri sarbloh Granth as I have no knowledge of it and haven't been blessed with its Santhiya and katha yet. You can't read Gurmukhi or understand Gurbani but you're sitting here drawing up daft theories. You're the exact definition of a Khaapi Sikh.

The videos are from Eminent scholars of the Panth. If you dont want to listen to their views and want to stick to your own manmat then go nuts.

I'm pretty calm here, I just find it hilarious how the khoj that Sikhawareness was known for is now people refusing to read the Gurbani and relying on translations. Hilarious.

I hope you feel better. 

[GurjantGnostic]

The app is Sikhi To The Max. Feel free to contact them.

I suggest Naam and some warm milk. Maybe a nap. 

[KaalSevak]

3 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I hope you feel better. 

I'm not being a d!ck here but I genuinely hope you do one day go to India and actually study under the schools there, I actually believe you could be the perfect fit to teach Dharmic stuff to the west due to your knowledge of Abrahmic religions, something that is lacking in alot of scholars studying in various dharmic sikhi schools. I actually really enjoy your posts, you're one of my favourite posters here and I love the comparisons you draw to actual pre-Constantine Christianity. You're just way off base here.

2 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

The app is Sikhi To The Max. Feel free to contact then. 

Sikhi to the max is known to be full of errors. You start seeing them once you understand bani more. People have contacted them, they just ignore it.

[GurjantGnostic]

Bro...you joined just for this? Thank you Ji. Welcome. I'm honored friend. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Just now, KaalSevak said:

I'm not being a d!ck here but I genuinely hope you do one day go to India and actually study under the schools there, I actually believe you could be the perfect fit to teach Dharmic stuff to the west due to your knowledge of Abrahmic religions. I actually really enjoy your posts, you're one of my favourite posters here and I love the comparisons you draw to actual pre-Constantine Christianity. You're just way off base here.

Sikhi to the max is known to be full of errors. You start seeing them once you understand bani more. People have contacted them, they just ignore it.

I'd love to go to india bro, but ...Jaggi. 

These Durga and Ruach topics are passing fancy and not started by me bro. Either case. 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

And no. I don't read Gurmukhi Ji. I'm a convert. I come here to discuss Sikhi because it is my Sangat. I'm only schooled by Gurbani itself, in english, Katha, and this site. 

So what you see aren't posts by an expert, not mine, you see my education being conducted with zero filters. 

[GurjantGnostic]

I mean in a way I might as well have my own wretches corner here. I wish I could be quarantined but other people's topics are my inspiration to ask questions and yhrow stuff out there.  Put a tin foil hat with pure intentions on everything I say. 

[GurjantGnostic]

I also multi post and hijack threads. Fair warning. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Please stay and keep posting. We need all expertise we can get as we communicate about Sikhi, and the challenges facing the Paanth. 

[Inderpal1994]

13 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Problem is that a lot of people hide behind bhagti. When I was younger it was commonly said that if you just do bhagti, Guru ji would instantly make you a super warrior when it was required

This is what I was eluding to.

I don't believe one needs to do Bhakti in order to obtain Shakti. One can obtain shakti without bhagti, however the person will not be doing this for dharma. 

I also agree with the above statement of people hiding behind bhagti. This in my opinion is the failure of the panth. We rejected DSGS, we ignored our martial heritage instead we option for Gatka...to be honest nothing about us was warrior like, we fooled ourselves in believing so. 

We gave up on the guru's mat in order to live a "happy go lucky wearing white kurta pyjama all day" type panth.

[Inderpal1994]

23 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I'd be careful chasing Shakti without Bhakti

I believe I watched a YouTube video of being's like Ravana doing Japa and Tapa of Lord Shiva Ji, in order to aquire power and strength. This however was not in the pursuit of dharam, but for his own.

[dalsingh101]

26 minutes ago, Inderpal1994 said:

This is what I was eluding to.

I don't believe one needs to do Bhakti in order to obtain Shakti. One can obtain shakti without bhagti, however the person will not be doing this for dharma. 

I also agree with the above statement of people hiding behind bhagti. This in my opinion is the failure of the panth. We rejected DSGS, we ignored our martial heritage instead we option for Gatka...to be honest nothing about us was warrior like, we fooled ourselves in believing so. 

 

I think the dubious brit 'annexation' was the main cause of this myself.