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SImran Stage

Guest Rohit

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Guest Rohit


Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

I have been going through a delima whether to do jaap with rasna or mentally. I started with rasna like 6 months back and now I am doing it mentally and i think ajapa jaap is happening.

Do i still need to do jaap with rasna?

At Amritvela, I find it very hard to concentrate in simran. But when i do it in evening, i can concentrate more. I would like Amritvela to be more productive.  

please let me know if i am on the right track. Any suggestions...


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On 6/1/2019 at 11:50 PM, Mooorakh said:

Ty and read the 18, 19 page of this thread only @Luckyveerji has described the things so well


Let me paste it for us here👇.  It's too good and has helped me alot




Lucky     1,876


I was just going to explain my interpretation of Rom Rom simran.

It's mentioned quite often in the order of saas graas, saas saas and then rom rom, but very rarely does any mahapursh give any details about it.

I get that impression because it is a very practical technique that involves sukham sareer compared to physical, and I assume that most teachers/mahapursh/sant show and demonstrate to an abyhasee only after he is adept in saas graas and saas saas.

It almost seems as it is kept hush hush and some sant/mahapursh don't reveal to student until x-amount of years have been spent doing the other vidhis/jugtees.

I found that I could get a little information from one place and another little idea from another,,,,, so basically, my interpretation is from gathering the little bits and putting them together from varying sources.

I must stress that as far as I understand it, one should be doing this only when they know how to maintain or get very close to a steadiness and when they are able to get breath balanced (ie,, via sukhmana channel)

Primarily,one has to do more abyhaas to get the nadhis cleansed and stimulated, and when this happens- the sukham sareer properties start coming into play.

I won't go into the vidhies of breath balancing or dhyian control for now,but will give you my understanding and how I've been doing the rom rom simran.


This is pasanti bhani jap- which is mental,silent and completely from the sukham Mind.

and it is antar ghat (completely internal)

We are using sukham ears and sukhammouth to jap. (ie,,,sukham gyan and karam indries)

It is ALL sukham compared to the Physical breathing manoeuvres/inhalations/tongue use....etc.. in Saas graas & Saas saas

However, there is the beginning aspect of trying to feel the pulse or heartbeat, that is classed as physical. But once you master this, then it all becomes sukham.

A little point I would like to make is about some confusion for matching breathing with heartbeat - which can no doubt lead to hyperventilation!

I really don't think that you should match your breath to heartbeat- since this is ALL sukham. If we start matching physical breath then we are going towards sargun/physical behaviour again.


The way I see it is-

With simran we progress through the jugtees and techniques by gradually making our surti, dhyian and actions, to move from Sargun to Nirgun. So, if our surti can come out and away from the sargun body, then we move away from the grasps of kaal and his maya dominance. Therefore, we need to make surti/dhyian move from Sargun to Nirgun.

(remember- before creation there was just the nirgun shabad and all sargun manifested later. It makes sense to go back home in that reverse order!)


As for the rapid breathing technique that can lead to hyperventilation and hypoxia, I am aware that some keertan sangats practice this, but this is not to be confused with heartbeat & rom rom jugtee, or any other jugtee for that matter.

Hypoxia or oxygen deprivation from rapid hyperventilation can give someone a good feeling of being lightheaded. I have heard how some of these kirtan sangats(akj) claim to have feelings of divine anand from their fast paced kirtan samagams, but this is nothing much different than the 2 minute high that party students get with nitric 'poppers', because of same oxygen starvation effects.


1) 1st quieten and get that steady state where breath is balanced.

2) Try and feel your heart beat by putting the focus into that area

3) If this is difficult, then it may help if-

-a) you hold your breath for a few seconds and then try to locate/listen.

-b) Or you can instead ,try to feel your pulse on the wrist.

4) Once you find the beat and can follow it's beating rhythm, then putting some more dhyian there should make it more louder and prominent.

5) the anhad naad/dhun should also get more prominent if you have it present.

-I usually find that they both get more enhanced at the same time

6) Now, that the heart beating is clear and can be followed, you incorporate and match the gurmantar along with it to begin rom rom.

-this itself can be done in 2 ways

a) you should be able to identify an ''up'' beat and a ''down'' beat.

...then coincide the Wahe-with-Up, and the Guru-with-Down.


b) when the beat is too fast to differentiate the up/down, then you can match the whole gurmantar with this faster beat. For eg..you are saying waheguru,waheguru,waheguru, without any pause or breaks in wahe-and-guru.

With practice, you should eventually be able to locate the heartbeat without touching or feeling any pulse.

If you HOLD the breath for a few seconds, then this also make it easier to sense.

NEXT, the goal is to put the focus on navel, because when focusing at navel, one can be steady in the sukhmanna channel and trying to rise upwards.

The sukhmanna channel runs directly from navel area towards the nijh ghar. (in a straight line along the path of chakras)

Before we are born and in the womb, this connection is fully active and intune with waheguru. When the umbilical cord is cut and the first birth breath is taken, that's when the veil layers of maya world start their course. You could also say that the knot to maya is tied after cord is cut/breath is taken in atmosphere.


ਮਨ ਰੇ ਪਵਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ ਸੁਖਮਨ ਨਾਰੀ  ਰਹਾਉ 
Man re pavan ḏariṛ sukẖman nārī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ||1||Pause||

It's important to get the steady breath balance before you start rom rom.

This steadiness and control comes when there are no thoughts.

If any thoughts arise, then the breath balancing goes into either side of Ida or Pingala.

That’s why it is called the turbulent ocean (bhavsagar) because we rock from side to side (left to right), or from ida to pingala whilst trying to travel up the nadis and trying to maintain the steadiness in sukhmana throughout.

This 2nd stage of rom rom is to focus around navel area and feel the pulse there which is much more sukham.

The focus, I believe is not directly at the belly button, but you feel the pulse and rom rom vibration just below it and deeper inside.

It is the area called the DHARAN.- which is about 1 inch below and 1 inch inwards.

I often find it a little easier to locate this subtle area compared to the heartbeat sometimes. With practice it should become easier and almost instant.

The vibrations that I feel there can be Inand Out and so I use the mental Wahe-inand Guru-out,

OR sometimes they may be going slightlyup/down at an angle rather than in/out, but I still use the same method and have noticed that the rate of rom rom vibration is practically the same.

All the jap is done in complete sukham from the mind, and it can help if you do the internal, mental chant with the inner voice being raised with some power behind it. (as if your enforcing your internal chant)

The last check I usually make is to be sure that I am breathing slowly and normally, and not accidentally incorporating the breath into the jap rhythm-which can be very easily done (and then you can end up with the hyperventilating issue explained above). Again, with practice, this will become instant and second nature.

This practice takes you on a whole new quest with both mystical and spiritual experiences, that are individual and personally tailored to each of us. You will know that they can't be discussed openly.

I can seriously understand why it is of great importance to have the right sangat and experienced gurmukh/mahapursh/sant guidance/advisor to assist you along the encounters at this stage. This is probably the reason to why it has the "hush hush'' factor and doesn't get mentioned too often.

Sadly, I'm not in the company of any mahapursh and at certain times I have felt the desperate need to get questions answered.

So far, I seemed to have managed using gurbani, certain info sources, practice and of course, Waheguru's blessings.


Using the above practice method should eventually make Rom Rom fully manifest/pargat. There are a few nishanees that can help determine if it's pargat in full or not, but I won't go into those here.



This may help veer. N u may read the whole thread 


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