"Only hindus will prevail"-hindu domestic terrorist shooting protestors

[Jageera]

17 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

SSA bro. Hope life is good in Malaysia. 

All good Veerji. Hope your return here is permanent

[HarjasDevi]

On 2/7/2020 at 7:01 AM, Jageera said:

Hahaha..I knew posting this truth will bring out the saffron brigade on this forum. I plan to carry on with this. Carry on with your propaganda and protecting your tyrant so called 'state'. Jai shree ram babu !

Not quite sure what to think of your posts bhaiji. Why make sarcasm against Lord Ram whose Naam happens to be sacred bani in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Mahraaj over 8,000 times. "Saffron brigade" really? Saffron is not the color which Sikh Nirmalay wear? "protecting your tyrant so called 'state'."  BJP government did not conduct Anti-Sikh pogroms in 1984 and over 20 years of impunity. At least blame the proper culprits, for the proper reason and not go radical blaming every single Hindu, and those who want to protect Hindu tattva of India from aggressive missionaries Christian and Muslim, and in anti-religion way political Communism funded by foreign countries.

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"Only hindus will prevail"

Yes, it is a reply.  But you don't have the political integrity to share what this comment was in reply TO... already we know that jihadi radicals, including ISIS have claimed India for Muslim domination... have posters putting Hindu women into burqa's... and smashing sacred swastika symbol... no less equating it with the political fascism of National Socialist Germany... a different country... from a different time period... which even had Muslim legions... so the lunacy of such propaganda is so nonsensical... especially labeling Hindutva as fascist... but Islamic radicals as democratic... when every speech they give promises to destroy democracy and create Sharia state... but I digress.

Tell at least the WHOLE story, so people can understand the conflict, the agitators manipulating the conflict, and rise above it and move back towards actual brotherhood and goodwill.

[Jageera]

On 3/3/2020 at 3:03 AM, HarjasDevi said:

Tell at least the WHOLE story, so people can understand the conflict, the agitators manipulating the conflict, and rise above it and move back towards actual brotherhood and goodwill.

I am not a desperate propagandist like you. I just take quotes from the site and post it here according what I know is the truth. The fact that rape and murder apologists like you are on this site twisting and turning everything to fit your ugly hindutva ideology is proof that i am on the right path.

Go and preach to your fellow rapists and murderers about brotherhood and goodwill first then come lecture me.

[Jageera]

On 3/3/2020 at 3:03 AM, HarjasDevi said:

 Why make sarcasm against Lord Ram whose Naam happens to be sacred bani in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Mahraaj over 8,000 times. 

Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not talk about Ram,son of King Dasrath when the word 'Ram' is used. We are not interested in that guy. He has nothing to do with Sikhi.

Although you and your crew will twist and lie based on your past post history,it still doesn't change facts.

In fact I will take 1 step further and say that Ram son of Dasrath was a mega loser who couldnt take care of his own wife.

Lakshman was a rapist who outraged the modesty of Shurpanikha,sister of King Ravan, hence the term 'cutting her nose'.She was raped by lakshman who as usual of high cast hindus,just see the lower caste women as sex toys.Ravan had to avenge his sister but even he did not stoop as low as lakshman and left sita untouched.Some sources say sita was actually happier with King Ravan,a real man than with her eunuch husband Ram son of Dasrath.

Ram son of Dasrath was also a mega racist who went on killing low caste saints for performing penance for fear that they would become brahmins.

All this has been mentioned even by Giani Sant Singh Maskeen. You can watch his videos on youtube yourself.

Please don't blaspheme the holy Granth of us Sikhs by equating this rubbish low class characters with us Sikhs. 

[HarjasDevi]

6 hours ago, Jageera said:

Sri Guru Granth Sahib does not talk about Ram,son of King Dasrath when the word 'Ram' is used. We are not interested in that guy. He has nothing to do with Sikhi.

...In fact I will take 1 step further and say that Ram son of Dasrath was a mega loser who couldnt take care of his own wife.

Lakshman was a rapist who outraged the modesty of Shurpanikha,sister of King Ravan, hence the term 'cutting her nose'.She was raped by lakshman who as usual of high cast hindus,just see the lower caste women as sex toys.Ravan had to avenge his sister but even he did not stoop as low as lakshman and left sita untouched.Some sources say sita was actually happier with King Ravan,a real man than with her eunuch husband Ram son of Dasrath.

Ram son of Dasrath was also a mega racist who went on killing low caste saints for performing penance for fear that they would become brahmins....

Please don't blaspheme the holy Granth of us Sikhs by equating this rubbish low class characters with us Sikhs. 

Wow, talk about blasphemy of Holy Granth and hatred of Hindu Dharma.  We could engage in long, controversial and in-depth discussion. But that isn't really the point. Let me try to simplify:

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"One of avtars of vishnu of treta yog who is called maryada purshotum, who fought with ravana to got his wife back and said her to went through agni prikhsha. Ramayana and Ramcharitar Manas are granth in which ram word is used. Rama word is also used in Guru Granth Sahib sometimes for Lord Rama and sometimes for that God akaal murat."  https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Lord_Rama

What's an avatar? (It's sargun swaroop in human birth). What does Gurbani say an Avatar is? (It says is sargun swaroop in human birth, subject to troubles and failings of Maya). And... Lord Ram of Avodhya, son of Dasrath who fought demon-king Ravana for his wife... is described in Guru bani as... sargun AVTAR of Supreme Lord (absolute Akal which is nirguna that includes in fullness also sarguna).  Now, for an absolute fact, when Nama japa includes nam of Lord Ram... it is NOT a boat of mukti to chant name of dead man from Avodia. But WITHIN the dead body of sargun swaroop of Lord Ram as Avtar of Absolute Lord Nirguna... was Param jyot... and so this NAMA of RAMA in Absolute aspect is part of Gurbani... because no one can jap nirguna, without form, without NAM.

So, this Holy NAM which is boat of liberation is also RAM... because why? Because the avtar was jyoti jyot param jyot of Absolute Lord.

You write: 

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I will take 1 step further and say that Ram son of Dasrath was a mega loser... Ram son of Dasrath was also a mega racist who went on killing low caste saints...

I'm so sorry you were educated by fanatic haters, but this is not the teaching of Sanatana Dharma.  Neither is it the teaching of Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji Mahraaj. It is above all things, massively bad reinterpretation distorted for political problems since ages, and recently by communal factions.  What is a SHUDRA?  It is by definition a low-class person whose mind cannot comprehend complexities of religious observance. We could have long, controversial discussion about Jati-varna system, British Raj distortions of Manu Smritis, and British Raj era divide and conquer tactics to push Brahmin hatred and also Untouchable hatred. But... these old problems have not to do with the actual Lord Ram of Avodhya.  He did not at any time KILL SAINTS.  He killed SINNERS who acted in defiance of Dharma.  In time of Mughal Raj, Brahminvadi was so corrupted that yes, Shudra Brahmins were murdering and mistreating Arya Shudras who were actual Sants.

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killing low caste saints for performing penance for fear that they would become brahmins

No.  Lord Ram killed Shambuka because his actions defied the Dharma of the yuga and brought bad karma to the Kingdom. It was done to preserve the balance of the era.  For one thing, you cannot judge between the ages by the same standard, because things are not the same. 

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ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥

Soee Raam Sabhai Kehehi Soee Kouthakehaar ||190||

Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੯੦):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੪ ਪੰ. ੧੪
Salok Bhagat Kabir

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥

Kabeer Raam Kehan Mehi Bhaedh Hai Thaa Mehi Eaek Bichaar ||

Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੯੦):੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੪ ਪੰ. ੧੪
Salok Bhagat Kabir

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥

Kabeer Raamai Raam Kahu Kehibae Maahi Bibaek ||

Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੯੧):੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੪ ਪੰ. ੧੫
Salok Bhagat Kabir

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥

Eaek Anaekehi Mil Gaeiaa Eaek Samaanaa Eaek ||191||

One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੯੧):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੪ ਪੰ. ੧੫
Salok Bhagat Kabir

It is clear distinction between sarguna and nirguna... but nirguna has not got any NAM therefore, per Bhagat Kabirji, himself a HINDU RamNaami wrote this bani, RAM son of Dasrath is the Nam, but with concentration on the Param jyot aspect and not the physical sargun avtar.

Now, if sargun avtar has given Lord's NAME... why treat it with such hostility, hatred and disrespect?
 

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"In the Treta Yuga, brahmins and warriors practiced asceticism and the rest were under the supreme obligation of obedience, proper to the Vaishya and Shudra classes; the Shudras' duty being to serve the other three. O Great King, in the Dwapara Yuga, untruth and evil increased, unrighteousness having placed a second foot on the earth, and then the Vaishyas began to practice penance, so that dharma, in the form of asceticism, was performed by the three castes, but the Shudras were not permitted to undertake it during that time, O Foremost of Men. O Prince, a man of the lowest caste may not give himself up to penance in the Dwapara Yuga; it is only in the Kali Yuga that the practice of asceticism is permitted to the Shudra caste. During the Dwapara Yuga it is a great crime for one of Shudra birth to perform such practices. At this time, in thine empire, a rigid penance is being undertaken by a wretched Shudra, O Prince, and this is the cause of the death of that child. An act of mortification that is prescribed is well done and a sixth of the merit goes to the king who rules with justice. But how should he, who does not protect his people, enjoy the sixth portion? O Lion among Men, thou should investigate the happenings in thy kingdom and put down evil wherever it is practised, so righteousness may flourish, man's life be prolonged and the child be revived." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambuka

We can get into big long debates, current history of casteism like Ambedkar's opinions and so forth, but here is simplest dialogue explaining what is missing from modern understanding. Ravana did tapasya as well, but not because he was a sant... he was devil and did such practices for POWER to act against devatay, and to harm others.

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"The part of Ramayana that talks of Shambuka is considered by most scholars as an interpolation. Most probably Valmiki never wrote that story. However, Rama’s action is justified. Shambuka was doing Tapas in order to gain control of lower heavens and kick out Devatas like Indra. Rama killed Shambuka to stop him from gaining control of lower heaven. A similar story is there in Shiva Puarana. Lord Shiva killed Jalandhara who also did tapas to gain control over lower heaven." – Pradip Gangopadhyay Jan 24 '17 at 6:07  https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/16866/why-did-rāma-kill-Śambūka-and-is-rāma-justified-in-killing-him-without-a-second

 

[HarjasDevi]

6 hours ago, Jageera said:

I am not a desperate propagandist like you. I just take quotes from the site and post it here according what I know is the truth. The fact that rape and murder apologists like you are on this site twisting and turning everything to fit your ugly hindutva ideology is proof that i am on the right path.

Go and preach to your fellow rapists and murderers about brotherhood and goodwill first then come lecture me.

1. Hindutva is a POLITICAL movement which is nationalist and promoting advancement of Hindu religion and culture.  That said, it is not the same thing as the religion of Sanatana Dharma. I have met some persons who were RSS and drunkards, and never do any pious act or religious observance at all.  I have met very pious and holy persons as well who support protection of Hindu Tattva in India from massive leftist misrepresentation and congressi politics of divide and conquer.  I think even in purely political realm to be honest, you would have to be judicious in who you accuse of being bad... else you simply bear false witness to lie and slander to promote anti-Hindu hatred.

2. We have discussed issue behind the rioting which you are posting about... that being Citizenship Amendment Bill, which as yet you seem incapable of speaking for likely knowing nothing about... all you have done is regurgitate the most radical, factional, and even exposed lies which congressi media has flamed into international drama. And your reply is then to launch personal attack against me for having a response to your inflammatory posting.   Now you call me a fellow rapist and murderer.  Wow, I feel sorry for your sankalpa. As you think, so you become, despite whom you falsely accuse. Not only are you fanning the flames of hatred over quite awful riots... but you trash anyone in support of Hindu as being a rapist and murderer.... My prayer and intention for you is much better and higher than this bhaiji. Maybe you should practice Naam kamai and clean the dirtiness of your mental mirror bhaiji.  It will bring you peace, happiness, long life, and respect for others.  Join me in prayers for peace of India, and healing for all who have suffered injustice from rioting... regardless of religious affiliation.  Do yourself a favor, investigate issues more deeply, be fair, prayerful and honest so that you do not become a mouthpiece for demons, for that only promotes violence and hatred, and lies. Let's promote truth and understanding in all things.

Namaskar

[Jageera]

13 hours ago, HarjasDevi said:

  Do yourself a favor, investigate issues more deeply, be fair, prayerful and honest so that you do not become a mouthpiece for demons, for that only promotes violence and hatred, and lies. Let's promote truth and understanding in all things.

Namaskar

I agree with this statement and wish that you too accept and practice your own advice penji. Being an apologist for murderous rioters is equivalent to being an accomplice.

I accept that you have strong views. So do I. Yet I still consulted you on some topics and heavily agree with you regarding some topics discussed knowing your past views. I compartmentalized for the sake of gaining new insight. Just because I disagree with someones view doesn't make them my enemy that I have to hound them from thread to thread.I am not your enemy even if you may perceive me as such.

What is true is that I have my views. I have made my mind. I refused to be silenced on it.Is that too much to ask?I don't go around burying others people thread.I believe I have that right and will carry on to do so.

It's just sad that on a "Sikh" forum,a Sikh can't voice out his opinion without being attacked.

Jai shree krishan.

[Jageera]

13 hours ago, HarjasDevi said:

Wow, talk about blasphemy of Holy Granth and hatred of Hindu Dharma.  We could engage in long, controversial and in-depth discussion. But that isn't really the point. Let me try to simplify:

Well that is your belief not mine penji. To me pointing out something that doesn't exist in the SGGS does not amount to any blasphemy. SGGS never talks about worship of Ram son of Dasrath.

And as I said,I did not come up with this,it was from videos on youtube which you too can freely access.I'm just pointing out it's one of the popular views in circulation.If that view is in your view offensive tell me what you would like to be redacted and I have no problem obliging.I am not in the business of hurting the feelings of others penji.

I don't hate any dharma but hate it when others try to walk over my head and try to rule over me.I reject sovereignty of any other dharam over Sikhi.

13 hours ago, HarjasDevi said:

We can get into big long debates, current history of casteism like Ambedkar's opinions and so forth, but here is simplest dialogue explaining what is missing from modern understanding. Ravana did tapasya as well, but not because he was a sant... he was devil and did such practices for POWER to act against devatay, and to harm others.

I think you are not accurate labeling King Ravana as a Devil as wasn't he of both Brahmin and Rakshas birth?So he was 50/50.Still doesn't make him a Devil.And when they say birth from union of brahmin and rakshas,the rakshas could mean low caste women.

And where did his power come from? Wasn't it from Shiva,a major deity in the hindu trimurthi? Why would Shiva give a Devil superpower,doesn't make sense.So there is more to this story.There needs to be more research on this by a non partisan perspective.And didn't King Ravana compose the Shiva Tandava Stotram, one of the greatest compilations of praise for Shiva?

I refuse to believe that a "Devil" could compose a masterpiece of this calibre.

With his neck consecrated by the flow of water that flows from his hair,
And on his neck a snake, which is hung like a garland,
And the Damaru drum that emits the sound “Damat Damat Damat Damat”,
Lord Shiva did the auspicious dance of Tandava. May he give prosperity to all of us.

I have a deep interest in Shiva
Whose head is glorified by the rows of moving waves of the celestial Ganga river,
Which stir in the deep well of his hair in tangled locks.
Who has the brilliant fire burning on the surface of his forehead,
And who has the crescent moon as a jewel on his head.

May my mind seek happiness in Lord Shiva,
In whose mind all the living beings of the glorious universe exist,
Who is the companion of Parvati (daughter of the mountain king),
Who controls unsurpassed adversity with his compassionate gaze, Which is all-pervading
And who wears the Heavens as his raiment.

May I find wonderful pleasure in Lord Shiva, who is the advocate of all life,
With his creeping snake with its reddish brown hood and the shine of its gem on it
Spreading variegated colors on the beautiful faces of the Goddesses of the Directions,
Which is covered by a shimmering shawl made from the skin of a huge, inebriated elephant.

May Lord Shiva give us prosperity,
Who has the Moon as a crown,
Whose hair is bound by the red snake-garland,
Whose footrest is darkened by the flow of dust from flowers
Which fall from the heads of all the gods – Indra, Vishnu and others.

May we obtain the riches of the Siddhis from the tangled strands Shiva’s hair,
Who devoured the God of Love with the sparks of the fire that burns on his forehead,
Which is revered by all the heavenly leaders,
Which is beautiful with a crescent moon.

My interest is in Lord Shiva, who has three eyes,
Who offered the powerful God of Love to fire.
The terrible surface of his forehead burns with the sound “Dhagad, Dhagad …”
He is the only artist expert in tracing decorative lines
on the tips of the breasts of Parvati, the daughter of the mountain king.

May Lord Shiva give us prosperity,
The one who bears the weight of this universe,
Who is enchanting with the moon,
Who has the celestial river Ganga
Whose neck is dark as midnight on a new moon night, covered in layers of clouds.

I pray to Lord Shiva, whose neck is bound with the brightness of the temples
hanging with the glory of fully bloomed blue lotus flowers,
Which look like the blackness of the universe.
Who is the slayer of Manmatha, who destroyed the Tripura,
Who destroyed the bonds of worldly life, who destroyed the sacrifice,
Who destroyed the demon Andhaka, who is the destroyer of the elephants,
And who has overwhelmed the God of death, Yama.

I pray to Lord Siva, who has bees flying all around because of the sweet
Scent of honey coming from the beautiful bouquet of auspicious Kadamba flowers,
Who is the slayer of Manmatha, who destroyed the Tripura,
Who destroyed the bonds of worldly life, who destroyed the sacrifice,
Who destroyed the demon Andhaka, who is the destroyer of the elephants,
And who has overwhelmed the God of death, Yama.

Shiva, whose dance of Tandava is in tune with the series of loud
sounds of drum making the sound “Dhimid Dhimid”,
Who has fire on his great forehead, the fire that is spreading out because of the
breath of the snake, wandering in whirling motions in the glorious sky.

When will I be able to worship Lord Sadashiva, the eternally auspicious God,
With equanimous vision towards people or emperors,
Towards a blade of grass and a lotus, towards friends and enemies,
Towards the most precious gem and a lump of dirt,
Toward a snake or a garland and towards the varied forms of the world?

When I can be happy, living in a cave near the celestial river Ganga,
Bringing my hands clasped on my head all the time,
With my impure thoughts washed away, uttering the mantra of Shiva,
Devoted to the God with a glorious forehead and with vibrant eyes?

Anyone who reads, remembers and recites this stotra as stated here
Is purified forever and obtains devotion in the great Guru Shiva.
For this devotion, there is no other way or refuge.
Just the mere thought of Shiva removes the delusion.

 

[HarjasDevi]

10 hours ago, Jageera said:

Well that is your belief not mine penji. To me pointing out something that doesn't exist in the SGGS does not amount to any blasphemy. SGGS never talks about worship of Ram son of Dasrath.

Since you seem not to possess reading comprehension, allow me to copy paste what I wrote... because I never said worship of Ram son of Dasrath... but I did say, and Gurbani says the NAM of Ram son of Dasrath (sarguna) is used to invoke the Absolute Lord who is nirguna, and therefore without NAM.

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Why make sarcasm against Lord Ram whose Naam happens to be sacred bani in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Mahraaj over 8,000 times.

You have proved yourself several times to lie, distort and evade the issues. Gurbani says:

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ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥

Soee Raam Sabhai Kehehi Soee Kouthakehaar ||190||

Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੯੦):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੪ ਪੰ. ੧੪
Salok Bhagat Kabir

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥

Kabeer Raam Kehan Mehi Bhaedh Hai Thaa Mehi Eaek Bichaar ||

Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੯੦):੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੪ ਪੰ. ੧੪
Salok Bhagat Kabir

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥

Kabeer Raamai Raam Kahu Kehibae Maahi Bibaek ||

Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੯੧):੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੪ ਪੰ. ੧੫
Salok Bhagat Kabir

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥

Eaek Anaekehi Mil Gaeiaa Eaek Samaanaa Eaek ||191||

One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੧੯੧):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੪ ਪੰ. ੧੫
Salok Bhagat Kabir

Why have they used NAM of son of Dasrath? As I wrote, because Lord Ram was Trey Yug Avtar (sarguna) of the Absolute Nirgun Lord and Paramjyot, else his NAM would not be boat of mukti.

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Bhai Gurdas Vaaran - Waheguru mantar ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ

ਸਤਿਜੁਗ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਵਵਾ ਵਿਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ।

Satijugi Satigur Vaasadayv Vavaa Visanaa Naamu Japaavai |

In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.

ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੧

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ।

Duaapari Satigur Haree Krisan Haahaa Hari Hari Naamu Japaavai |

The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.

ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੨

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਰਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ।

Taytay Satigur Raam Jee Raaraa Raam Japay Sukhu Paavai |

In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that remembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.

ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੩

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗਗਾ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਾਵੈ।

Kalijugi Naanak Gur Gobind Gagaa Gobind Naamu Alaavai |

In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.

ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੪

ਚਾਰੇ ਜਾਗੇ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ।

Chaaray Jaagay Chahu Jugee Panchaain Vichi Jaai Samaavai |

The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.

ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੫

ਚਾਰੋ ਅਛਰ ਇਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਪਾਵੈ।

Chaaro Achhar Iku Kari Vaahaguroo Japu Mantr Japaavai |

When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,

ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੬

ਜਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਉਪਜਿਆ ਫਿਰਿ ਤਹਾਂ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥੪੯॥੧॥

Jahaa Tay Upajiaa Firi Tahaa Samaavai ||49 ||1 ||

The jiv merges again in its origin.

ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੭

You write:

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If that view is in your view offensive tell me what you would like to be redacted and I have no problem obliging.I am not in the business of hurting the feelings of others penji. I don't hate any dharma but hate it when others try to walk over my head and try to rule over me.I reject sovereignty of any other dharam over Sikhi.

Sikhi is what, new religion based on ancient and eternal Dharm. How can there be question of "sovereignty" or "lordship over" what is essentially the same eternal teaching?  Are Guru Sahibaan not jyoti jyot Param jyot?  And is Param Jyot not 'One without a Second?'  And is not "Hindu" a location, and Eternal Dharma the religion? So, what is Sikhi if not discipleship of true Guru Sahibaan who are God conscious and therefore One Jyot of the eternal Lord who gives the world one eternal Dharma? I am not talking sectarianism... you are. All beings in the world contain the Absolute One Lord pervading (vis, from Sanskrit Vishnu, all pervading) within the heart (antharjami). All... Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, Parsis, Jains, Shaivites, Vaishnavas, Shaktas, Vama Margis... ALL!~  There is ONE eternal Dharma and it is NOT within the confines of "religion."

It is merely, the "truth."

[HarjasDevi]

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I think you are not accurate labeling King Ravana as a Devil as wasn't he of both Brahmin and Rakshas birth?So he was 50/50.Still doesn't make him a Devil.And when they say birth from union of brahmin and rakshas,the rakshas could mean low caste women. And where did his power come from? Wasn't it from Shiva,a major deity in the hindu trimurthi? Why would Shiva give a Devil superpower,doesn't make sense.

Rakshasa does nowhere mean "low caste woman" but terrible devil of aggressive quality such to be man-eater. You assert Ravana wasn't devil yet admit he was born from devil yoni.  Okay.  This is not Christianity, and it is not Satan forever condemned. Everyone contains within them pervading Absolute Lord, and through Nama japa will attain liberation, even devils.  Prahlad was also son of Devil King Hiranyakashipu. What is the difference between them bhaiji? "Hindu-ism" is a big religion, with many sects, and people who speak different languages.  Some even worship Ravan.  You write:

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Wasn't it from Shiva,a major deity in the hindu trimurthi? Why would Shiva give a Devil superpower,doesn't make sense.

a major deity in the hindu trimurthi? Lol, okay. You really ought to study this subject more in-depth but I will do my best to clear things.

The trimurthi is what? what's a murthi?  A FORM.  The trimurthi is equivalent to Trey gunas. In this aspect Lord Shiva is part of material creation, and also what aspect of trey gunas? RAJO.  And what is rajo quality? Action, passion, anger. For this reason Lord Shiva is also known as Lord of the demons. The Trimurthi are also known as aspects of what? BRAHMAN, the Absolute which is not the same concept as Brahma, which in contracted form is part of the trimurthi. So, we can be clear to distinguish BRAHMAN/PARABRAHM from the Brahma of Trey gunas.

Likewise, this "major deity" concept of yours is fundamentally flawed because why?  Does not every living being consist in some material aspect of the trey gunas as qualities of nature? So the entire material creation is composed of these... what are lyrically described as trimurthi.  Ravan has composed Shiva Tandava Stotram which, incidentally, describes Lord Shiva as leader of bhootas.  Lord Shiva as Trimurthi is aspect of what?  Destruction. Lord Shiva is Rudra रुद्र, the god who cries out, or howls or roars.

Devils and angels exist because of duality.  Good and evil exists because of duality.  But there is a balance between them which differs from yuga to yuga. The Absolute Lord sends his avatars (forms) on the Earth to keep the balance to protect the Dharma, to preserve the creation from self-annihilation.  Many powerful beings have harnessed powers of destruction. In Kaljug the evil force is ascendant... as a form of purgation. Gurbani says:

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ਸਾਮ ਵੇਦੁ ਰਿਗੁ ਜੁਜਰੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ॥

Saam Vaedh Rig Jujar Athharaban ||

The Saam Veda, the Rig Veda, the Jujar Veda and the At'harva Veda

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੯:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੧
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੇ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਹੈ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ॥

Brehamae Mukh Maaeiaa Hai Thrai Gun ||

Form the mouth of Brahma; they speak of the three gunas, the three qualities of Maya.

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੯:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੧
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕੈ ਕੋ ਤਿਉ ਬੋਲੇ ਜਿਉ ਬੋਲਾਇਦਾ ॥੯॥

Thaa Kee Keemath Kehi N Sakai Ko Thio Bolae Jio Bolaaeidhaa ||9||

None of them can describe His worth. We speak as He inspires us to speak. ||9||

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੯:੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੧
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਸਪਤ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਉਪਾਏ ॥

Sunnahu Sapath Paathaal Oupaaeae ||

From the Primal Void, He created the seven nether regions.

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੧੦:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੨
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਭਵਣ ਰਖੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਏ ॥

Sunnahu Bhavan Rakhae Liv Laaeae ||

From the Primal Void, He established this world to lovingly dwell upon Him.

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੧੦:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੨
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਆਪੇ ਕਾਰਣੁ ਕੀਆ ਅਪਰੰਪਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰੋ ਕੀਆ ਕਮਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੦॥

Aapae Kaaran Keeaa Aparanpar Sabh Thaero Keeaa Kamaaeidhaa ||10||

The Infinite Lord Himself created the creation. Everyone acts as You make them act, Lord. ||10||

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੧੦:੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੩
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਰਜ ਤਮ ਸਤ ਕਲ ਤੇਰੀ ਛਾਇਆ ॥

Raj Tham Sath Kal Thaeree Shhaaeiaa ||

Your Power is diffused through the three gunas: raajas, taamas and satva.

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੧੧:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੩
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਜਨਮ ਮਰਣ ਹਉਮੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

Janam Maran Houmai Dhukh Paaeiaa ||

Through egotism, they suffer the pains of birth and death.

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੧੧:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੪
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਗੁਣਿ ਚਉਥੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕਰਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੧॥

Jis No Kirapaa Karae Har Guramukh Gun Chouthhai Mukath Karaaeidhaa ||11||

Those blessed by His Grace become Gurmukh; they attain the fourth state, and are liberated. ||11||

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੧੧:੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੪
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਸੁੰਨਹੁ ਉਪਜੇ ਦਸ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥

Sunnahu Oupajae Dhas Avathaaraa ||

From the Primal Void, the ten incarnations welled up.

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੧੨:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੫
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਇ ਕੀਆ ਪਾਸਾਰਾ ॥

Srisatt Oupaae Keeaa Paasaaraa ||

Creating the Universe, He made the expanse.

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੧੨:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੫
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

ਦੇਵ ਦਾਨਵ ਗਣ ਗੰਧਰਬ ਸਾਜੇ ਸਭਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਇਦਾ ॥੧੨॥

Dhaev Dhaanav Gan Gandhharab Saajae Sabh Likhiaa Karam Kamaaeidhaa ||12||

He fashioned the demi-gods and demons, the heavenly heralds and celestial musicians; everyone acts according to their past karma. ||12||

ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੭) ੧੨:੩ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੩੮ ਪੰ. ੫
Raag Maaroo Guru Nanak Dev

 

[HarjasDevi]

12 hours ago, Jageera said:

I agree with this statement and wish that you too accept and practice your own advice penji. Being an apologist for murderous rioters is equivalent to being an accomplice.

Eh?  Can you please cut and paste and show me where I have advocated in support of rioting, criminality, rape and murder?  Where did I justify such things or even accept the news articles had told the whole truth?  No, I told it was deliberate propaganda by nerfarious foreign forces including USA, Bangladesh, Pakistan, China, Russia, Israeli to create problems for India and stage incidents and provoke people to commit harms against their neighbors.  I also said such persons who commit evil doing will reap those karams in this life and suffer pains in the next. Why do you insist on bearing false witness to lie about what I say>? In what way have I become an accomplice, to advocate or defend rioters?  I urged you to investigate the true situation and not blame or instigate harm against Hindus as you are doing.  And more, you have deliberately posted to frame these riots as something against Sikh community, for which to compare with 1984.  What began in 1984 was more than 10,000 murders and went on with impunity for over 25 years to involve many thousands more... and was in fact "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" committed by Congress Party officially with sanction...  and there is no parallel for what has happened here.

You write: 

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It's just sad that on a "Sikh" forum, a Sikh can't voice out his opinion without being attacked.

I am not attacking you as a Sikh. To be honest bhaiji, right now nothing you have posted reflects on Sikh community at all, I view as merely your opinions.  You say all these bad things against Hindus then hide behind Sikhi.  Nothing here has anything to do with any religion, no less Gursikhi.  I am confronting the irresponsibility of your spreading the most inflammatory depiction of the recent riots, in the most anti-Hindu way imaginable... which literally invited Hindu hatred within Sikh community... and all this over the Citizenship Amendment Bill intended to protect those including Sikh community from extremism within neighboring countries which in fact have been infiltrated by Saudi funded extremists... as Narendra Modi says... why have these not protested the millions of murders and rapes committed in Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Pakistan against vulnerable people whom the Citizenship Bill is intending to protect?

44 murders in riots is horrible.  Some of those killed were also Hindus.  Let's just tell the whole truth and stop judging along communal lines. Citizenship Bill is not in any way anti-Muslim.  Is there anything to protect Indian origin people of non-Muslim religion in those Muslim countries?  Yet, you do not even offer balanced perspective in your "voice of protest."  And THAT is all I said.

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Just because I disagree with someones view doesn't make them my enemy that I have to hound them from thread to thread.I am not your enemy even if you may perceive me as such.

What is true is that I have my views. I have made my mind. I refused to be silenced on it.Is that too much to ask?I don't go around burying others people thread.I believe I have that right and will carry on to do so.

I am hounding you now to reply to 2 threads that I find highly anti-Hindu and unfairly feed into the kind of communalism creating violence? Reflect, maybe there is a better way to conduct news reporting than throw all sorts of blame and hatred against only Hindus, and not even investigating what about the Citizenship Bill is problematic, or what foreign instigators have hijacked media to stage incidents during American President's visit to India? Especially problematic should be ignoring calls for peace and for people to stop being influenced by overly dramatic fake news that itself is creating provocation and incidents.

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Go and preach to your fellow rapists and murderers about brotherhood and goodwill first then come lecture me.

Please go and do japa, and then tell me how I create out of you, my brother, to be an enemy when the opposite is the case.

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As the Delhi violence came under control of the police, rumors and misinformation continue to flow unabated. On Sunday, there were strong rumors of riots in several parts of Delhi. The administration immediately swung into action, and assured the residents through various platforms that no untoward thing took place. Further, it appealed to people not to believe the rumors.

However, it is a certain kind of misinformation and malicious, propaganda that is taking place on media platforms that one should be more concerned with.

The violence in Delhi has taken the lives of both Hindus and Muslims. The alleged role of people like Tahir Hussain in spreading violence with petrol bombs and bricks came out in open with prima-facie evidence. Even then, some opinion makers in their relentless pursuit to present it as ‘pogrom’ are coming up with one-sided versions and advices that works to rub salt on the wounds of Delhi riot victims." https://www.thetruepicture.org/fake-news-delhi-violence-saba-naqvi-rana-ayub-pogrom-propoganda/

 

[chatanga1]

On 3/2/2020 at 7:03 PM, HarjasDevi said:

Why make sarcasm against Lord Ram whose Naam happens to be sacred bani in Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Mahraaj over 8,000 times.

@Soulfinder See this above bro. It's why she isn't liked anywhere in Sikh circles.

 

On 3/2/2020 at 7:03 PM, HarjasDevi said:

Saffron is not the color which Sikh Nirmalay wear?

No it's bhagwa which is more peach coloured than kesri.

 

On 3/2/2020 at 7:03 PM, HarjasDevi said:

BJP government did not conduct Anti-Sikh pogroms in 1984 and over 20 years of impunity.

The BJP did nothing to bring justice to those murderers who did either, when they have the power to do so. Most of the DG's, DIG's, SSP's and DSP's are alive who carried out the ethnic cleansing of Sikhs since 1984. Why are they still free? Even this DG Dinkar guy with his "return a terrorist by evening from Kartarpure Sahib" quip was one of those officers.

 

Yet Jagtar Singh Jaggi, who himself never harmed anyone, yet kept the information of the indian state's ethnic cleansing operations alive in the next generation of Sikh Panth, has been in indian jails for 3 three years. I wonder how many copy and paste essays you did about that.

 

On 3/2/2020 at 7:03 PM, HarjasDevi said:

Tell at least the WHOLE story, so people can understand the conflict,

Like you do about the Khalistan movement? You were the one who parroted kps gill's views from his book ad verbatim. Yet many moons later you haven't told the WHOLE story. You hypocrite.

[HarjasDevi]

4 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

No it's bhagwa which is more peach coloured than kesri.

"Nirmala teachings incorporated Sikh teachings and doctrines within a largely Hindu/Vedantic framework... At first Nirmalas wore only white garments but later adopted the ochre robes worn by Hindu ascetics, which is now a distinguishing mark of the sect, and shared some other practices, such as birth and death rites, with Hindus. They generally practise celibacy and are devoted to scriptural and philosophical study, but by tradition they are inclined towards classical Hindu Vedic philosophy. They wore saffron robes (symbolising saintliness and renunciation), and all were Keshdharis (Uncut hair)." https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Nirmala

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The BJP did nothing to bring justice to those murderers who did either, when they have the power to do so... 

BJP did not order or sanction the murders as Congress Party did.  Why are they charged as being more responsible than Congress?

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Jagtar Singh Jaggi

He committed murders which complicates his case. I too wish that there had been a general amnesty to all Sikh karkhoos in the 1990's, but I do not have that authority. That said there is no support or justification for continuing targeted murders against political opponents by those intending to continue militancy and separatist war long past the point of any realistic outcome. That's just a fool's errand.  These misguided extremists just become pawns for foreign countries, traitors, spies, terrorists... to any country in the world and no one can help them. I have never condemned him, nor advocated for him as I cannot absolve him from his murder charges either. 

His destiny belongs to laws of the country where he committed his crimes, Karma and God and with the souls of those he wronged, especially if they were legitimate targets of warfare, or he committed cowardly acts of ambush for political murder.  His case has nothing to do with the topic of riots over Citizenship Amnesty Bill.

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Like you do about the Khalistan movement?

Best of luck creating a separatist Sikh state called Khalistan smack in the middle of nuclear Pakistan and nuclear India... Sikh Panth does not even accept most traditional sanatan and  monay Sikhs... that reduces population of Sikhs dramatically and makes it doubtful you could even populate a Khalistan.  I think, logically and rationally Khalistan is never, ever going to exist.  Urging people to agitate and fight for it is just a death sentence for nothing.  Better advocate people attend university and become doctors, lawyers, businessmen, IT specialists, etc. There is no longer a Khalistan "movement" worth fighting and dying for.  What is promised in future is not a separate country of Sikh people... but a world transformed by Mahapurakhs under one true Dharm.

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You were the one who parroted kps gill's views from his book ad verbatim. 

KPS Gill no doubt was a rapist and murderer, and he will pay.  No one gets away with anything.  That said, even devils can sometimes speak the truth.  He was also right about foreign manipulation of Kharkhoos by China and Pakistan... and about radicalized "jihadi" kharkhoo goondas (I cannot call them disciples/Sikhs of sat Guru Sahibaan) who had an agenda of mass murder of whoever did not support treasonous, violent Khalistan movement. And they continued this agenda of disruption, intimidation, robbery and murder long past the point of any actual possibility of Khalistan.  I'm sorry but blowing up planes, buses with innocents, elders, women and children is terrorism. Hiding behind some notion of "revenge" for 1984, without targeting the actual culprits is simply jumping into an ocean of murders.

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It's why she isn't liked anywhere in Sikh circles.

I didn't lose anything to separate from persons who drag dirtiest corrupted politics into "religion" and then justify any criminality that supports their political agenda... and advocates hatred, ostracism and targeting for violence against actual religious teachings, practices and beliefs with an intolerance only matched by Taliban.  After all, I received over 14 death threats and 1 threat of rape from Sikh community... and have not ever advocated violence towards anyone at all... only to promote reconciliation which doesn't come from fanning the flames of rage or blaming the wrong people for crimes committed by others. I will tell the truth... murderers of Sikhs in 1984 were not true Hindus. Khalistani separatists who committed bloodbath of murders against indiscriminate targets were not real Sikhs.  Now that we know this, let's promote forgiveness, respect, brotherhood and blessing between all people. I do not condone wrongdoing.  Why should you? If you want to overcome police brutality, become a moral policeman.  If you want to overcome laws of injustice become a lawyer and judge.  

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Like the Akalis, however, they found only a few who could be swayed by their psalms of terror. To most, their falsehood was apparent from the outset. But those who did not believe them remained silent. Those who believed them, killed for their convictions. And many more joined in the slaughter, for profit, for greed, for power, for lust, for drugs, or for the opiate of the sheer freedom from moral restraint that terrorism represented.

Some of the believers still survive; they will, eventually, seek to revive and extend their fraternity of strife. As long as the myth persists, it will find its votaries. It is the myth, consequently, that we must contend with.

Who were the victims of these ‘defenders of the Sikh Faith’? Of a total of 11,694 persons killed by terrorists in Punjab during the period 1981-1993, 7,139 - more than 61 per cent - were Sikhs.

The most dramatic killings, the ones that were projected to the greatest extent by the terrorists themselves, were always of the Hindus, or of other ‘enemies of the Faith’, such as the ‘apostate Sant Nirankaris’. But the most consistent victims, and perhaps the most dreaded opponents of the terrorists, were Sikhs. The terrorists claimed to speak for the entire Panth. Thus, any Sikhs who questioned their authority to do so, who questioned their actions, who exposed the immorality of their methods was a far greater danger to them than the Hindus could ever be. They threatened the credibility of the great myth. And they, above all others, had to die for it." - K.P.S. Gill. 

https://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publication/nightsoffalsehood/falsehood4.htm

Why did the Khalistan movement and Sikh militancy not bring any blessing to anyone?  Why did it bring only corrupted, ultra wealthy goodas, drugs, prostitution, unbelievable violence and fear? Why did it separate "true" Sikhs from Sikhs determined "worthy of death" for being sanatan, pro-Hindu, or pro-India? Why did it spark violent attacks and murders against deray, where militants could not create hatred, they created terror.  Do you think THIS is how you will get your Khalistan, your state of the Pure ones?

And government run by who? those colluding with Pakistani ISI and behind them atheistic, mass murdering Communist China? This state if it ever came to exist at all... would be a despised hell on earth... and the blood of so many misguided fools and murdered innocents would curse it's name.

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"Sources said that Paramjit Singh Panjwar, chief of Khalistan Commando Force, a terrorist organisation, is based in Lahore since 1994, whereas his wife and two sons live in Frankfurt in Germany. The nexus has been exposed after massive seizures of drugs shipped from Pakistan by the Coast Guards of the Maldives, Sri Lanka and India in recent months.Sources said that Pakistan is using neighbouring countries, particularly Sri Lanka and the Maldives to pump drugs into India." https://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ani/pak-based-khalistani-terrorists-smuggling-drugs-to-fuel-militancy-in-punjab-119071400798_1.html

You don't like Sant Nirankari's so just throw grenades at them while they are praying with family and children... THIS is what you call KHALSA? This will bring you pain, destruction and hell, in this life and in lives to come. Khalistan is death even more than it is dead. It has no blessing at all from any God.

Quote

"The Khalistan Liberation Force (KLF) and the International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF) were involved in the November 2018 grenade attack at a weekly congregation of the Nirankari sect in Punjab's Amritsar district... Two masked men came on a motorcycle to the Nirankari congregation at Adliwal village on the outskirts of Amritsar on November 18, 2018. Forcing their way in by brandishing a pistol, they lobbed a grenade into the prayer hall killing three people and injuring 20. Ahir also said that in order to avert terror incidents in the country, there was a close and effective coordination mechanism between intelligence and security agencies at the Centre and the state level. https://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/khalistan-groups-behind-amritsar-grenade-attack-minister-119021200908_1.html

God blesses those who support authentic justice and peace. Our own sins will punish those who advocate pain to innocents no matter how deep the delusion of justification.

Hatred is never defeated by hatred... only by love.

Quote

“He abused me, attacked me, Defeated me, robbed me!” For those carrying on like this, Hatred does not end.
Hatred never ends through hatred. By non-hate alone does it end. This is an ancient truth."

https://www.lionsroar.com/in-translation-the-inexhaustable-dhammapada/

 

[chatanga1]

11 hours ago, HarjasDevi said:

BJP did not order or sanction the murders as Congress Party did.  Why are they charged as being more responsible than Congress?

 

I'm not going to read through your essays. I have never done and won't start now.

Have the BJP done anything to bring the criminals of the indian state to justice? No. So they have been/are an instrument in denying justice. They are protecting the killers that belong to the indian state. So they are JUST AS responsible for the murders.

The absurd lengths you will go to to defend this terrorist hindutva regime is simply what you are. A fascist.

 

11 hours ago, HarjasDevi said:

Quote

Jagtar Singh Jaggi

He committed murders which complicates his case.

How do you now he committed the murders? Your fascist terrorist state hasn't proved anything in the 3 years he has been in jail.

The absurd lengths you will go to to defend this terrorist hindutva regime is simply what you are. A fascist. And a terrorist supporter.

[HarjasDevi]

7 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

I'm not going to read through your essays. I have never done and won't start now.

Then you are incapable of discussion, and stick blindly to only one-side... but don't substitute dirtiest, corrupted politics for  "religion."

Quote

Have the BJP done anything to bring the criminals of the indian state to justice? No. So they have been/are an instrument in denying justice. They are protecting the killers that belong to the indian state. So they are JUST AS responsible for the murders.

BJP is a political party.  They are neither the government which ordered, sanctioned and perpetrated the killings... neither are they the Supreme Court of India, or Law Enforcement... and not being such are not responsible for the massive delays, destruction and tampering of evidence which Congress Party did to protect itself over decades, and thus impede investigations.

Quote

Jagtar Singh Jaggi: "How do you now he committed the murders? Your fascist terrorist state hasn't proved anything in the 3 years he has been in jail."

I am neither judge, nor jury nor executioner,,, I have neither compiled evidence of his involvement or complicity, either direct or indirect.  Neither is the government, except for the JUDICIARY and National Investigation Agency (NIA).  What I do know is he has been CHARGED with funding Khalistan Liberation Force and targeted murders and there is enough evidence to hold him for trial. I believe he has the right to an attorney, to fair trial whether he can get one or not is not in my power.  I believe he has the right to be safe from torture, whether that can change in current state of India is again not in my power. That said, how do you know he is innocent?  And more pertinent, is it that you blindly stand behind and support Khalistan Liberation Force AND justify targeted killings that you support him?

Quote

... is simply what you are. A fascist. And a terrorist supporter.

Perhaps it is the other way around.

Quote

The absurd lengths you will go to to defend this terrorist hindutva regime is simply what you are. A fascist.

Two separate subjects.  In the first place, you have not established with any evidence that current government of India is 1. "terrorist" or 2. "fascist."  For a fact it is PRO-India, and therefore PRO-Nationalist. But that is where the comparison ends, because while Fascism is Nationalist... not every form of Nationalism is Fascist.  Where did it become a sin to support one's own heritage, culture and country's interests above foreign instigators? Yes of course... under CONGRESS Party... which latched onto anti-Hindu agenda... and placed PSYCHOLOGICAL blame for it's OWN crimes against Sikhs starting in 1984 onto PRO-Hindu party, BJP... when in fact, everybody knows Indira Goonda married a Muslim orchestrated by Mohandas Gandhi, which is why he lent her the protection and power of his surname... And her favorite son Sanjay married Moneka Kaur, a Sikh... and oldest son Rajiv married Sonia Maino, an Italian Christian lady.  And REASON for massive anti-Hindu communalism of Congress Party was that leading power "Gandhi" family WAS NOT HINDU!~ And because many of the events tearing apart India since it's inception were orchestrated by FOREIGN powers seeking to divide and conquer.

Fascism comes from the bundle of sticks tied together to protect an axe... because UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.  And when Knights stop protecting Maidens... they get taken into captivity and raped and married off to the enemy, and become another country.  Yes, I am PROUDLY FASCIST. But India is not a fascist government, no matter how hard foreign controlled (and funded) ultra wealthy and corrupted "Gandhi" family claims.  I do not support creating communal disharmony and divisions, or supporting divisive causes to break India apart to become another Bangladesh.  That said, I do not support injustices and promote REFORM of major institutions which DIRTY MONEY AND CORRUPTEDS have compromised. It is Kaljug.  You have neither proved, nor explained in what way violent political sins are to be blamed on HINDU RELIGION!~

The crimes of Congress cannot be honestly laid at feet of BJP.  They alone bear that burden of blame... only psychological devices and political and media manipulations blame THEIR POLITICAL RIVALS FOR THEIR OWN DIRTY DEEDS!~  

The nobility of defending and protecting one's own heritage and culture (Hindu tattva, Hinduness, of the people of ancient Bharat along river Sindhu-location), which... yes every Sikh shares with Bharatiya culture, also known as land along the river Sindhu, Hindu.  Even Muslim's from India have shared heritage and culture... do you think they are well served murdering Ahmadiyas and Sufis and Sant Mat unity importing "terroristic" and intolerant Saudi Arabian Sunni Wahhabi-Salafism or Afghani Talibanism? What part of Indian culture is that? At least Master Tara Singh was co-founder of Vishwa Hindu Parishad.

Khalistan will never exist.  Blind support of terrorism against India will never go unpunished.  Mental gymnastics to blame current government of India for crimes of Congress government is ludicrous. The hatred and blame of Hindu religion and people, in support of foreign terrorism against them, is shameful... and to place all that under umbrella of "SIKH RELIGION" is simply the evidence of Kaljug. Gursikhi is about LOVE, and defending the innocents from harm. Sikhi is about worship of the God whose name is TRUTH... and not political lies.

[chatanga1]

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

Then you are incapable of discussion, and stick blindly to only one-side...

And you are incapable of discussion with your essay copy and pastes which only move the discussion away from what it is, in a direction of apologist nonsense for your bleoved hindutva ideology.

 

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

BJP is a political party.  They are neither the government which ordered, sanctioned and perpetrated the killings...

Yet they are the government. By your warped thinking the allies and successive german governments should never have pursued nazi war criminals as they happened under a different regime. How disgusting!

 

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

I am neither judge, nor jury nor executioner,,, I have neither compiled evidence of his involvement or complicity, either direct or indirect. 

Yet you boldy claimed "Jaggi committed murders which complicates his case..."

How disgusting!

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

Perhaps it is the other way around.

When I accuse others of murder without any evidence, and protect murderers in the name of some bogus nationalism, then yes it may be the other way around. But until that time, we can safely say that it is true about you.

 

1 hour ago, HarjasDevi said:

In the first place, you have not established with any evidence that current government of India is 1. "terrorist" or 2. "fascist." 

If they hide/excuse/ignore the crimes of the previous government then they are just as guilty, for they hold that power to address justice yet remain committed to not doing so.

[HarjasDevi]

2 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

with your essay copy and pastes which only move the discussion away from what it is, 

No, you have done the topic diversion into personal attack on me, let's be honest here.

Quote

Yet they are the government. By your warped thinking the allies and successive german governments should never have pursued nazi war criminals as they happened under a different regime. How disgusting!

1. TOTALLY unrelated.  BJP GOVERNMENT is not the COURT system or lawyers or police investigators.  If police apprehend suspect and investigators have evidence and case is moving through Courts... you rabidly blame BJP, spew hate of Hindu's, and start talking nonsense about WW2.  Okay.

2. Just to throw in here but... WHY did "successive German governments" pursue National Socialist era soldiers and officials in some Allied concocted claim of "war crimes" no less than Allies made an utter mockery of Nuremberg War Crimes Trial by allowing Soviet prosecutors to falsely charge and frame indictment against German Wehrmacht for crimes of mass murder which the Soviet's themselves committed in Katyn forest.... that literally impeaches the credibility of the entire Nuremberg kangaroo Court... since you have proven liars framing false charges. Wartime Courts were filled with hysteria and propaganda and served one purpose... mass murder and elimination of National Socialist government to be replaced with occupation government doing the bidding of the Allies because they had that power after winning the war.

The Katyn Massacre: When The USSR Purged 22,000 Polish Men — Then Blamed The Nazis

I know it's vogue for people in UK and West to LAUD the exploits of their barbaric war against European economy in WW2 and crushing of National Socialist government, using Stalin's mass-murdering, mass raping Red Army... accused of so many times more MILLIONS of mass murders and tortures BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE... then ever accused against the Hitler government... but I digress... It doesn't relate in any way to BJP government... if anything, Sonia Maino "Gandhi's" father was an Italian blackshirt fascist.

Quote

When I accuse others of murder without any evidence, and protect murderers in the name of some bogus nationalism, then yes it may be the other way around. But until that time, we can safely say that it is true about you

Jagtar Singh Jaggi  no doubt is a Khalistani, abundant evidence links him to radicalizing people and links with members of banned militant group.  Did he cross a line and become active supporter and bring funds to Pakistan based Khalistan Liberation Force?  Police and investigators say they have evidence he did conspire to commit targeted killings which did happen. What evidence do you have that deny's his involvement such to refute the charges?

Quote

Police have claimed that the killings were carried out by elements backed by Pakistan’s spy agency ISI and Khalistani separatist elements.

Johal, known widely by the nickname Jaggi, ran an outfit called ‘Never Forget 1984’ in the UK, and was on the radar of the intelligence wing of Punjab Police for the past more than one year. But his role actually came under the scanner after a source in the UK provided the Punjab police with “vague information” about a key man ‘Johal’ as the one of the conspirators in the killings, it is learnt... “His involvement was once again verified from the arrest of Jimmy Singh, a Jammu resident who recently returned to India from the UK after spending many years there and was arrested on November 1 from the Delhi airport,” said an officer.  The arrests were made in a case registered at Baghapurana in Moga in December last year, after a pistol used in a murder crime was linked to Jimmy. Police said Johal and Jimmy had further revealed the names of men linked with the targeted killings. Later, one of those men named KLF chief Harminder Singh Mintoo, who is in jail. “Johal used to radicalise people and provide the hardware for carrying out the targeted killings,” said a senior official monitoring the probe. The probe officials also claim to have found that Johal knew identity of the alleged shooter, Hardeep Singh Shera." https://www.hindustantimes.com/punjab/targeted-killings-in-punjab-uk-resident-johal-was-on-police-radar-for-a-year/story-2hxtp6Knu5SSZ2sguuNTPM.html

 

Quote

Then I accuse others of murder without any evidence,

At least you admit that you have no evidence.  You don't need any... your entire agenda is to spread rabid hate and blame against every Hindu and sanatan Sikh while defending Paki controlled terrorist outfits that TARGET Hindu's and Sanatan Sikhs for murder... out of the most misplaced rage and blame.

[chatanga1]

26 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

No, you have done the topic diversion into personal attack on me, let's be honest here.

You, who support criminals and murderers, and spread lies about it, are always going to be exposed. You sound like a thief who's been caught by the police saying that. A thief nonetheless.

 

26 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

1. TOTALLY unrelated.  BJP GOVERNMENT is not the COURT system or lawyers or police investigators.

No they are the ruling party which is bound by dharma to uphold justice. Have they done so in the last 20 years? No they haven't.

 

27 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

Jagtar Singh Jaggi  no doubt is a Khalistani, abundant evidence links him to radicalizing people and links with members of banned militant group.  Did he cross a line and become active supporter and bring funds to Pakistan based Khalistan Liberation Force?  Police and investigators say they have evidence he did conspire to commit targeted killings which did happen. What evidence do you have that deny's his involvement such to refute the charges?

I'm a Khalistani. Does that mean I should be jailed, tortured or murdered by you or your people?

If the police had genuine evidence against Jaggi, they would not have waited for over 3 years in dragging his case out. This is typical behaviour of the "justice" system in your terrorist utopia. To keep people locked away and drag out cases, because they have no other way to keep them in jail through lack of evidence.

 

27 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

At least you admit that you have no evidence. 

You claimed Jaggi was a murderer. Without evidence. Now you try and protect the criminals from their injustices meted out to Jaggi. You don't even have the honesty or integrity to admit that you were lying and then get caught with your false information.

 

27 minutes ago, HarjasDevi said:

your entire agenda is to spread rabid hate and blame against every Hindu and sanatan Sikh while defending Paki controlled terrorist outfits

And your entire agenda is to defend the rabid injustice of your terrorist state and instead try and drag others into it to excuse your own bloodthirsty activities. No Paki controls me. But you are control by this hindutva agenda and you will NEVER succeed here. The admins of this site may be comatose as usual but I will be here to expose your lies and support for tyranny.

[sarabatam]

Harjasdevi is warned , next will be ban. We have come long way from your past cesspool posts and drama. SA is beacon for intellectual and spirituality not for dramas. Will prefer one quality post than quantity.

[HarjasDevi]

6 hours ago, sarabatam said:

Harjasdevi is warned , next will be ban. We have come long way from your past cesspool posts and drama. SA is beacon for intellectual and spirituality not for dramas. Will prefer one quality post than quantity.

Chatanga1 calls me a whore, and I am making a drama... of course. Ban me if you want, I would expect no less from absurd anti-Hindu bashing site pretending to promote spirituality.

[chatanga1]

7 hours ago, HarjasDevi said:

I would expect no less from absurd anti-Hindu bashing site pretending to promote spirituality.

Haha...play the martyr again.

You have been given a lot of tolerance here with your rubbish. You're not a sikh. Why do you need to plague a sikh forum? If you expect no less, then go. Why are you still hanging around?

[Jageera]

7 hours ago, HarjasDevi said:

Chatanga1 calls me a whore, and I am making a drama... of course. Ban me if you want, I would expect no less from absurd anti-Hindu bashing site pretending to promote spirituality.

lol the the most violent aggressive person here is you who harasses people from thread to thread. Don't try to play victim just because you have a vagina.

You are a rabid hindu extremists,what the hell are you doing on this site ridiculing Sikhs and Sikhi every chance you get.

 

[Jageera]

On 3/6/2020 at 5:23 AM, HarjasDevi said:

Since you seem not to possess reading comprehension, allow me to copy paste what

You are the queen of copy paste penji,carry on

 

On 3/6/2020 at 5:23 AM, HarjasDevi said:

 

Sikhi is what, new religion based on ancient and eternal Dharm. How can there be question of "sovereignty" or "lordship over" what is essentially the same eternal teaching?  Are Guru Sahibaan not jyoti jyot Param jyot?  And is Param Jyot not 'One without a Second?'  And is not "Hindu" a location, and Eternal Dharma the religion? So, what is Sikhi if not discipleship of true Guru Sahibaan who are God conscious and therefore One Jyot of the eternal Lord who gives the world one eternal Dharma? I am not talking sectarianism... you are. All beings in the world contain the Absolute One Lord pervading (vis, from Sanskrit Vishnu, all pervading) within the heart (antharjami). All... Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, Parsis, Jains, Shaivites, Vaishnavas, Shaktas, Vama Margis... ALL!~  There is ONE eternal Dharma and it is NOT within the confines of "religion."

 

I rest my case. Look at the hatred this person has for Sikhi.Why don't you take this same bullshit and go tell this to muslims,jews and christians too that their faith comes from hinduism.I would pay to see what happens after that.

If what you say is the truth then why don't you people go convince your fellow hindus to smash your idols,throw away your tilaks and dhotis,stop drinking cow piss,burn  all your vedas,purans and come join Sikhi as we are based on an ancient and eternal dharam and all are same innit?Why is it us who always have to change and accept authority of others? Maybe its time you people dumped your rubbish and come bowing to us.

If what you say was true,the Gurus would not have wasted time creating Sikhi,Why go through all the pain and trouble? There were many religions around,and as you said there is ONE eternal dharma,so why start Sikhi? Are you claiming to be smarter than the Gurus?The Gurus did start the Sikh religion so I believe they know better than you.

 

[Jageera]

On 3/8/2020 at 6:34 AM, HarjasDevi said:

 

BJP did not order or sanction the murders as Congress Party did.  Why are they charged as being more responsible than Congress?

They didn't have to. Congress did their dirty work for them. BJP was the most happiest. Hindutva was the true winner here as Sikh power lessened.

[Jageera]

On 3/8/2020 at 6:34 AM, HarjasDevi said:

 

  After all, I received over 14 death threats and 1 threat of rape from Sikh community... and have not ever advocated violence towards anyone at all...

 

I wonder who did you hound and terrorize to receive those threats?

Anyways,you're still with us right?lol the eternal victim.And now you blame an entire community for a couple of threats(im surprised it wasn't more.If a Sikh woman did the same on hindu forums she'd have thousands of threats and maybe even real attempts)

And now you're being a Hypocrite. Threats unsettle you so much but what about the people who have to endure this in real life everyday being raped and murdered by hindus?What about the women being threatened?No sympathy for them eh since they're Muslim.lol

On 3/8/2020 at 6:34 AM, HarjasDevi said:

murderers of Sikhs in 1984 were not true Hindus. 

oh yeah,the "true hindus" were busy denying Sikh shelter,chasing them away from hospitals,refusing them right to lodge police FIR and refusing to sell them groceries and basic needs.