Reincarnation of past notable individuals

[Sikhilove]

16 hours ago, SunnySingh said:

If Guru Gobind Singh said what you say, that is fine, because He is th form of Waheguru Akal Purukh at our level, which means He is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.  

Whatever He says is the Truth.

But let us ask ourselves? Even if all the names of those jeevas mentioned by you in your post above is a reality, what is so great about it? 

We must bear in mind, merging and becoming one with Waheguru is not like going to a holiday resort or to a foreign land for sometime and coming back.

For any soul who reaches Waheguru´s level and merges in Him, has for sure lost his petty identity and become one with Him without any distinction.

And if these jeevas mentioned by you,  they came back,  that means they were not one with Him, they were somewhere settling their karmas ... thus they came back once again as human biengs to perfect their bhakti and if it is His mauj, then go and become one with Him, that is it.

We too, each one of us, have been born countless times, in countless lives and species, so then?  

Our only goal to be paid attention to, should be the goal taught in the Gurbani, which is Guru Jee or Satnam, that is it, for only with Him can we ever get out from maya and brahm..

Who comes, who goes, where does that jeeva go .... are all distractions.

Life is too short, we should focus on ourselves, whether we are fulfilling our purpose of doing the right job/bhakti to get out of the endless cycle of 84, for once and ever and merge in  Him, with His grace, that is it.

 

We’ve always been One, we just live in the lower psychology and illusion that we’re not. The Gurus are merged with God but still have their differences, the astral body etc, they were married, had kids, different associates etc. But the Essence is the same, as our essence is, we are One. 
 

Many would oppose this fact, saying the Gurus are higher than us. But the Gurus of all souls taught us that we are Equal and we are One, that God pervades each and every one of us and we are Him and He is us. In accepting this, in Nirboah and Nirvair, we can begin to see through the illusion. 

[sevak]

SunnySingh, Brahmgyani ki gat only the brahmgyani knows. Therefore, we cannot understand such things until we reach that level.

We just dont know how the leela of Waheguru is working. 

[Soulfinder]

1 hour ago, sevak said:

SunnySingh, Brahmgyani ki gat only the brahmgyani knows. Therefore, we cannot understand such things until we reach that level.

We just dont know how the leela of Waheguru is working. 

Veer ji you are 100% correct. Only a puran mahapursh can know this knowledge.

[SunnySingh]

20 hours ago, Sikhilove said:

* We’ve always been One, we just live in the lower psychology and illusion that we’re not. The Gurus are merged with God but still have their differences, the astral body etc, they were married, had kids, different associates etc. But the Essence is the same, as our essence is, we are One. 
 

* Many would oppose this fact, saying the Gurus are higher than us. But the Gurus of all souls taught us that we are Equal and we are One, that God pervades each and every one of us and we are Him and He is us. In accepting this, in Nirboah and Nirvair, we can begin to see through the illusion. 

 

Sikhilove Jee, can you please provide where in the Bani does it say, that we are one? 

Please do not mould the Bani to your thought process, rather try to understand well the Bani, then only make conclusions, for whatever else you say is acceptbale in your posts, but when you come to describe Him, you give your own thoughts, whcih do not match Sikhee. 

Maybe you have been impressed by some school philosophy in your life, but in no way does it match when you say all is god,  or all of us are god , and so on .... 

If it was so as you say, Guru Jee would have never written the following Shabad, where He perfectly describes our present condition, and His true nature, which is the only Truth to be accepted and followed, anything else is "manmat":

 

soriT mhlw 5(613-10)
sorath mehlaa 5
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl

hm mYly qum aUjl krqy hm inrgun qU dwqw ]
ham mailay tum oojal kartay ham nirgun too daataa.
We are filthy, and You are immaculate, O Creator Lord; we are worthless, and You are the Great Giver.

hm mUrK qum cqur isAwxy qU srb klw kw igAwqw ]1]
ham moorakh tum chatur si-aanay too sarab kalaa kaa gi-aataa. ||1||
We are fools, and You are wise and all-knowing. You are the knower of all things. ||1||

mwDo hm AYsy qU AYsw ]
maaDho ham aisay too aisaa.
O Lord, this is what we are, and this is what You are.

hm pwpI qum pwp KMfn nIko Twkur dysw ] rhwau ]
ham paapee tum paap khandan neeko thaakur daysaa. rahaa-o.
We are sinners, and You are the Destroyer of sins. Your abode is so beautiful, O Lord and Master. ||Pause||

qum sB swjy swij invwjy jIau ipMfu dy pRwnw ]
tum sabh saajay saaj nivaajay jee-o pind day paraanaa.
You fashion all, and having fashioned them, You bless them. You bestow upon them soul, body and the breath of life.

inrgunIAwry gunu nhI koeI qum dwnu dyhu imhrvwnw ]2]
nirgunee-aaray gun nahee ko-ee tum daan dayh miharvaanaa. ||2||
We are worthless - we have no virtue at all; please, bless us with Your gift, O Merciful Lordand Master. ||2||

qum krhu Blw hm Blo n jwnh qum sdw sdw dieAwlw ]
tum karahu bhalaa ham bhalo na jaanah tum sadaa sadaa da-i-aalaa.
You do good for us, but we do not see it as good; You are kind and compassionate, forever and ever.

qum suKdweI purK ibDwqy qum rwKhu Apuny bwlw ]3]
tum sukh-daa-ee purakh biDhaatay tum raakho apunay baalaa. ||3||
You are the Giver of peace, the Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny; please, save us, Your children! ||3||

qum inDwn Atl suilqwn jIA jMq siB jwcY ]
tum niDhaan atal sulitaan jee-a jant sabh jaachai.
You are the treasure, eternal Lord King; all beings and creatures beg of You.

khu nwnk hm iehY hvwlw rwKu sMqn kY pwCY ]4]6]17]
kaho naanak ham ihai havaalaa raakh santan kai paachhai. ||4||6||17||
Says Nanak, such is our condition; please, Lord, keep us on the Path of the Saints. ||4||6||17||

   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you see the simplicity and beauty and above all true gyan and differences between us or all beings and  Him, described perfectly by Guru Jee?

Our origin and destiny is Him, but, for the moment we are not Him.

We are bound in the endless cycle of births and deaths, He IS NOT.

We have karmas and sanskaras of countless lives, HE HAS NOT.

We have mind and we are prisoners in Maya, HE IS NOT.

We  imperfect and limited, HE IS PEREFCT AND INFINITE.

If we are a drop, then HE IS THE INFINITE OCEAN. (so unless the drop merges in the Ocean, it remains a drop, thus limited)

If we are a ray of  Sun, then HE IS THE SUN. (so unless the ray returns in the sun, it is a simple and a limited ray)

So you see, in no way we are Him.

Please refrain from such comments, read the Bani and understand it fully, if needed be in the company of HIS lovers, in order to elevate your consciousness level where correct and right understanding is reached by His grace.

Gurbani in each shabad, in each ang, makes us aware of our current state of separation from Him with all that implies, and gives us the right directions/techniques to apply them practically in our present lives and reunite our surtees with Him, by merging in Him.

[SunnySingh]

2 hours ago, sevak said:

SunnySingh, Brahmgyani ki gat only the brahmgyani knows. Therefore, we cannot understand such things until we reach that level.

We just dont know how the leela of Waheguru is working. 

What you have stated above is totally correct and I agree 100 %. 

But, the title of the thread is of the reincarnation of past notable individuals, which is not the case of Brahmgyanis or Guru Sahiban, for they are the manifestation of Waheguru Akal Purukh at our level.

People take Brahgyani as a mahapurukh, or someone who has attained spiritual enlightment, but Fifth patsahee in His pure Bani says that Brahmgyani is Himself the Lord.

So all the names mentioned in the posts above of those individuals are for sure not Bramgyani, which again is not the case, for different concepts and things are being mixed here.

One side is,  Barhmgyani, a Gurmukh,  Guru Sahiban ....which are He Himself , and through them can we only reach Him. 

On the other side we have notable individuals, incarnations, trinities, etc etc etc ... which are absolutely not Him.

So please let us not mix up things.

Our attention should only be  on Guru Jee and Waheguru Akal Purukh, for as the Bani says:  MAT KOEE BOOLAY SANSAAR, BIN SATGUR KOEE NA UTRAAS PAAR.

Many notable individuals have come and gone, but as said above, going towards Him and merging and becoming one with Him, is not like going to a foreign land for a cettain time and then returning back.

The Ocean comes to the the shore whenever it wants so, by first becoming a wave, and as such,  each time it comes ashore, it is a bit different or better said not the same as any previous wave, for once the wave has returned into the Ocean, it has become the Ocean, so naturally, the Ocean has to become a new and a different wave, when it wants to  come to the shore again, for the purpose of taking those drops of water which are ready to merge into the Ocean, by first enveloping them into itself (the wave), then only the drops and the wave merge and become one with the Ocean.

 

[Arsh1469]

On 2/1/2021 at 2:42 PM, SunnySingh said:

If Guru Gobind Singh said what you say, that is fine, because He is th form of Waheguru Akal Purukh at our level, which means He is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.  

Whatever He says is the Truth.

But let us ask ourselves? Even if all the names of those jeevas mentioned by you in your post above is a reality, what is so great about it? 

We must bear in mind, merging and becoming one with Waheguru is not like going to a holiday resort or to a foreign land for sometime and coming back.

For any soul who reaches Waheguru´s level and merges in Him, has for sure lost his petty identity and become one with Him without any distinction.

And if these jeevas mentioned by you,  they came back,  that means they were not one with Him, they were somewhere settling their karmas ... thus they came back once again as human biengs to perfect their bhakti and if it is His mauj, then go and become one with Him, that is it.

We too, each one of us, have been born countless times, in countless lives and species, so then?  

Our only goal to be paid attention to, should be the goal taught in the Gurbani, which is Guru Jee or Satnam, that is it, for only with Him can we ever get out from maya and brahm..

Who comes, who goes, where does that jeeva go .... are all distractions.

Life is too short, we should focus on ourselves, whether we are fulfilling our purpose of doing the right job/bhakti to get out of the endless cycle of 84, for once and ever and merge in  Him, with His grace, that is it.

 

They came back as they were sent by Vahguru.

 

[SunnySingh]

2 hours ago, Arsh1469 said:

They came back as they were sent by Vahguru.

 

But then, even each one has been sent by Waheguru.

And let us stick to the initial points and not get diverted to other things,  for firstly some names were given who came as other individuals,  then the topic was shifted to god's nature, then to brahmhgyanis, then to Waheguru's will ....  god knows what will come next, but then this type of reactions is not a fair move.

Clear out the initial comments of the present thread then move forward to other things if you want in another thread, otherwise off topic answers can be given as seen, and the intentions of the present thread can easily go derailed.

[Sikhilove]

On 2/3/2021 at 12:18 AM, SunnySingh said:

 

Sikhilove Jee, can you please provide where in the Bani does it say, that we are one? 

Please do not mould the Bani to your thought process, rather try to understand well the Bani, then only make conclusions, for whatever else you say is acceptbale in your posts, but when you come to describe Him, you give your own thoughts, whcih do not match Sikhee. 

Maybe you have been impressed by some school philosophy in your life, but in no way does it match when you say all is god,  or all of us are god , and so on .... 

If it was so as you say, Guru Jee would have never written the following Shabad, where He perfectly describes our present condition, and His true nature, which is the only Truth to be accepted and followed, anything else is "manmat":

 

soriT mhlw 5(613-10)
sorath mehlaa 5
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl

hm mYly qum aUjl krqy hm inrgun qU dwqw ]
ham mailay tum oojal kartay ham nirgun too daataa.
We are filthy, and You are immaculate, O Creator Lord; we are worthless, and You are the Great Giver.

hm mUrK qum cqur isAwxy qU srb klw kw igAwqw ]1]
ham moorakh tum chatur si-aanay too sarab kalaa kaa gi-aataa. ||1||
We are fools, and You are wise and all-knowing. You are the knower of all things. ||1||

mwDo hm AYsy qU AYsw ]
maaDho ham aisay too aisaa.
O Lord, this is what we are, and this is what You are.

hm pwpI qum pwp KMfn nIko Twkur dysw ] rhwau ]
ham paapee tum paap khandan neeko thaakur daysaa. rahaa-o.
We are sinners, and You are the Destroyer of sins. Your abode is so beautiful, O Lord and Master. ||Pause||

qum sB swjy swij invwjy jIau ipMfu dy pRwnw ]
tum sabh saajay saaj nivaajay jee-o pind day paraanaa.
You fashion all, and having fashioned them, You bless them. You bestow upon them soul, body and the breath of life.

inrgunIAwry gunu nhI koeI qum dwnu dyhu imhrvwnw ]2]
nirgunee-aaray gun nahee ko-ee tum daan dayh miharvaanaa. ||2||
We are worthless - we have no virtue at all; please, bless us with Your gift, O Merciful Lordand Master. ||2||

qum krhu Blw hm Blo n jwnh qum sdw sdw dieAwlw ]
tum karahu bhalaa ham bhalo na jaanah tum sadaa sadaa da-i-aalaa.
You do good for us, but we do not see it as good; You are kind and compassionate, forever and ever.

qum suKdweI purK ibDwqy qum rwKhu Apuny bwlw ]3]
tum sukh-daa-ee purakh biDhaatay tum raakho apunay baalaa. ||3||
You are the Giver of peace, the Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny; please, save us, Your children! ||3||

qum inDwn Atl suilqwn jIA jMq siB jwcY ]
tum niDhaan atal sulitaan jee-a jant sabh jaachai.
You are the treasure, eternal Lord King; all beings and creatures beg of You.

khu nwnk hm iehY hvwlw rwKu sMqn kY pwCY ]4]6]17]
kaho naanak ham ihai havaalaa raakh santan kai paachhai. ||4||6||17||
Says Nanak, such is our condition; please, Lord, keep us on the Path of the Saints. ||4||6||17||

   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you see the simplicity and beauty and above all true gyan and differences between us or all beings and  Him, described perfectly by Guru Jee?

Our origin and destiny is Him, but, for the moment we are not Him.

We are bound in the endless cycle of births and deaths, He IS NOT.

We have karmas and sanskaras of countless lives, HE HAS NOT.

We have mind and we are prisoners in Maya, HE IS NOT.

We  imperfect and limited, HE IS PEREFCT AND INFINITE.

If we are a drop, then HE IS THE INFINITE OCEAN. (so unless the drop merges in the Ocean, it remains a drop, thus limited)

If we are a ray of  Sun, then HE IS THE SUN. (so unless the ray returns in the sun, it is a simple and a limited ray)

So you see, in no way we are Him.

Please refrain from such comments, read the Bani and understand it fully, if needed be in the company of HIS lovers, in order to elevate your consciousness level where correct and right understanding is reached by His grace.

Gurbani in each shabad, in each ang, makes us aware of our current state of separation from Him with all that implies, and gives us the right directions/techniques to apply them practically in our present lives and reunite our surtees with Him, by merging in Him.

How are we not Him, when everything, everyone everywhere is him? I’ve read gurbani many times. We are Him, but are in maya, the illusion that we are not. Gurbani (the Guru) pulls us out of it. I won’t deny that the Lord and Master, my true Father is All, hence we are Him and He is Us. Our bodies, the sun, the moon, our houses, it’s All Him. It’s stated in Gurbani many many times. To deny the fact would be to live in illusion. The dukh, the sukh, the pleasure and the pain, angel, demon, all him dressed up, all hukam and karam. Wordly logic has no place in True Love. He is the power that runs through our veins, without him, we don’t wake up, we can’t eat, sleep, none of it. I accept that we are Him and He is Us out of Love. I’m just a fool, an idiot, a sinner, a fool. I’m the lowest, I know nothing. But I love Him. 

 

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ॥੪॥੨੫॥੩੬॥  नानक का प्रभु आपे आपि ॥४॥२५॥३६॥  Nānak kā parabẖ āpe āp. ||4||25||36||  Nanak's God is Himself all-in-all. ||4||25||36||

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥  रामकली महला ५ ॥  Rāmkalī mėhlā 5.  Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

ਕਿਛਹੂ ਕਾਜੁ ਨ ਕੀਓ ਜਾਨਿ ॥  किछहू काजु न कीओ जानि ॥  Kicẖẖahū kāj na kī▫o jān.  I have not tried to do anything through knowledge.

ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਗਿਆਨਿ ॥  सुरति मति नाही किछु गिआनि ॥  Suraṯ maṯ nāhī kicẖẖ gi▫ān.  I have no knowledge, intelligence or spiritual wisdom.

ਜਾਪ ਤਾਪ ਸੀਲ ਨਹੀ ਧਰਮ ॥  जाप ताप सील नही धरम ॥  Jāp ṯāp sīl nahī ḏẖaram.  I have not practiced chanting, deep meditation, humility or righteousness.

ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਉ ਕੈਸਾ ਕਰਮ ॥੧॥  किछू न जानउ कैसा करम ॥१॥  Kicẖẖū na jān▫o kaisā karam. ||1||  I know nothing of such good karma. ||1||

ਠਾਕੁਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ॥  ठाकुर प्रीतम प्रभ मेरे ॥  Ŧẖākur parīṯam parabẖ mere.  O my Beloved God, my Lord and Master,

ਤੁਝ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਭੂਲਹ ਚੂਕਹ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥  तुझ बिनु दूजा अवरु न कोई भूलह चूकह प्रभ तेरे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥  Ŧujẖ bin ḏūjā avar na ko▫ī bẖūlah cẖūkah parabẖ ṯere. ||1|| rahā▫o.  there is none other than You. Even though I wander and make mistakes, I am still Yours, God. ||1||Pause||

[SunnySingh]

2 hours ago, Sikhilove said:

How are we not Him, when everything, everyone everywhere is him? I’ve read gurbani many times. We are Him, but are in maya, the illusion that we are not. Gurbani (the Guru) pulls us out of it. I won’t deny that the Lord and Master, my true Father is All, hence we are Him and He is Us. Our bodies, the sun, the moon, our houses, it’s All Him. It’s stated in Gurbani many many times. To deny the fact would be to live in illusion. The dukh, the sukh, the pleasure and the pain, angel, demon, all him dressed up, all hukam and karam. Wordly logic has no place in True Love. He is the power that runs through our veins, without him, we don’t wake up, we can’t eat, sleep, none of it. I accept that we are Him and He is Us out of Love. I’m just a fool, an idiot, a sinner, a fool. I’m the lowest, I know nothing. But I love Him. 

 

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪੇ ਆਪਿ ॥੪॥੨੫॥੩੬॥  नानक का प्रभु आपे आपि ॥४॥२५॥३६॥  Nānak kā parabẖ āpe āp. ||4||25||36||  Nanak's God is Himself all-in-all. ||4||25||36||

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥  रामकली महला ५ ॥  Rāmkalī mėhlā 5.  Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:

ਕਿਛਹੂ ਕਾਜੁ ਨ ਕੀਓ ਜਾਨਿ ॥  किछहू काजु न कीओ जानि ॥  Kicẖẖahū kāj na kīo jān.  I have not tried to do anything through knowledge.

ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਛੁ ਗਿਆਨਿ ॥  सुरति मति नाही किछु गिआनि ॥  Suraṯ maṯ nāhī kicẖẖ giān.  I have no knowledge, intelligence or spiritual wisdom.

ਜਾਪ ਤਾਪ ਸੀਲ ਨਹੀ ਧਰਮ ॥  जाप ताप सील नही धरम ॥  Jāp ṯāp sīl nahī ḏẖaram.  I have not practiced chanting, deep meditation, humility or righteousness.

ਕਿਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਉ ਕੈਸਾ ਕਰਮ ॥੧॥  किछू न जानउ कैसा करम ॥१॥  Kicẖẖū na jāno kaisā karam. ||1||  I know nothing of such good karma. ||1||

ਠਾਕੁਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ॥  ठाकुर प्रीतम प्रभ मेरे ॥  Ŧẖākur parīṯam parabẖ mere.  O my Beloved God, my Lord and Master,

ਤੁਝ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕੋਈ ਭੂਲਹ ਚੂਕਹ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੇਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥  तुझ बिनु दूजा अवरु न कोई भूलह चूकह प्रभ तेरे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥  Ŧujẖ bin ḏūjā avar na koī bẖūlah cẖūkah parabẖ ṯere. ||1|| rahāo.  there is none other than You. Even though I wander and make mistakes, I am still Yours, God. ||1||Pause||

 

 

How are we not Him, when everything, everyone everywhere is him?

*The Shabad provided by you above says, He is in all, but that does not make Him that "thing".

We should not mix the Creator Lord waheguru Akal Purukh with the creation whether gross or subtle, which is made out of the 5 tattwas, and thus that creation is perishable in time and space, while in His real Shabad essence, He is beyond all that paraphernalia, so naturally He definetely is not the perishable creation.

He is subtler than the subtlest, He is spirit, He is a highest level of consciousness and an endless fountain of higher qualities such as "sach" "chit" "anand".

Now even for a second, if we take your theory that He is the sun, moon, houses, demons, angels,  dukh, sukh, we  and all what you can imagine, well then that statement falls down by its own weight, because, He can not be destroyed and have an end.

All of His creation, except the souls, which are his essence,  are subject to Parlay and Mahaparlay.

One day so to say, all that you see (creation), will cease to exist, then only He, in his Shabad form will exist. 

So then Sikhilove Jee, if everything was Him, why is it subject to Parlay and dissapear like smoke into the air? Perhaps, because all "that" is not Him definetely.

Your thinking that He is all and everything, is a contradiction, isnt it? 

He permeates in everything  like a perfume is in a flower, but the perfume(subtle /spirit) is not the flower(gross/creation), isn´t it? 

He is like the thread(spirit) in a necklace holding/sustaining all the pearls(creation). If the thread is removed, all the pearls get dispersed and lost.

 

We are Him, but are in maya, the illusion that we are not.

* When you say we are Him, in which way are we Him?

For He is spirit, not the body, and we have a body and mind also, which are perishable and not our true reality.

We are subject to lives an deaths, while He is "ajoonee"(birthless thus deathless). So naturally, He is not us, as long as we considere ourselves the body, for that is vaham, that is agyanta, that is brahm, that is an illusion ...

 

I’ve read gurbani many times.  

* To an extent something is better than nothing, but reading Gurbani many times, does not give someone the correct understanding.

People recite the whole of gurbani many a times as a regualar practice, but then, even  a parrot can recite Gurbani, and this does not make them understand it in a right perspective, for one thing is to read or recite, other thing is to do or put into practice"what one reads".

Reading a prescrition many a times though, will not cure one´s maladies(agyanta), until one takes the medicine(Nam as per Bani), of which the prescription is telling us about and the way to take it.

 

 I’m just a fool, an idiot, a sinner, a fool. I’m the lowest, I know nothing.

*This your statement is totally agreeable, and the final truth about all the reality of us and Him,  thus no more need for any  arguments or discussions.

 

But I love Him. (Chapeau, a very noble sentiment of love and purity, keep it up always)

*You love Him, for you are what you are(atma),  and He is He Himself(Waheguru Akal Purukh/Paramatma) . 

 

[Sikhilove]

13 hours ago, SunnySingh said:

 

 

How are we not Him, when everything, everyone everywhere is him?

*The Shabad provided by you above says, He is in all, but that does not make Him that "thing".

We should not mix the Creator Lord waheguru Akal Purukh with the creation whether gross or subtle, which is made out of the 5 tattwas, and thus that creation is perishable in time and space, while in His real Shabad essence, He is beyond all that paraphernalia, so naturally He definetely is not the perishable creation.

He is subtler than the subtlest, He is spirit, He is a highest level of consciousness and an endless fountain of higher qualities such as "sach" "chit" "anand".

Now even for a second, if we take your theory that He is the sun, moon, houses, demons, angels,  dukh, sukh, we  and all what you can imagine, well then that statement falls down by its own weight, because, He can not be destroyed and have an end.

All of His creation, except the souls, which are his essence,  are subject to Parlay and Mahaparlay.

One day so to say, all that you see (creation), will cease to exist, then only He, in his Shabad form will exist. 

So then Sikhilove Jee, if everything was Him, why is it subject to Parlay and dissapear like smoke into the air? Perhaps, because all "that" is not Him definetely.

Your thinking that He is all and everything, is a contradiction, isnt it? 

He permeates in everything  like a perfume is in a flower, but the perfume(subtle /spirit) is not the flower(gross/creation), isn´t it? 

He is like the thread(spirit) in a necklace holding/sustaining all the pearls(creation). If the thread is removed, all the pearls get dispersed and lost.

 

We are Him, but are in maya, the illusion that we are not.

* When you say we are Him, in which way are we Him?

For He is spirit, not the body, and we have a body and mind also, which are perishable and not our true reality.

We are subject to lives an deaths, while He is "ajoonee"(birthless thus deathless). So naturally, He is not us, as long as we considere ourselves the body, for that is vaham, that is agyanta, that is brahm, that is an illusion ...

 

I’ve read gurbani many times.  

* To an extent something is better than nothing, but reading Gurbani many times, does not give someone the correct understanding.

People recite the whole of gurbani many a times as a regualar practice, but then, even  a parrot can recite Gurbani, and this does not make them understand it in a right perspective, for one thing is to read or recite, other thing is to do or put into practice"what one reads".

Reading a prescrition many a times though, will not cure one´s maladies(agyanta), until one takes the medicine(Nam as per Bani), of which the prescription is telling us about and the way to take it.

 

 I’m just a fool, an idiot, a sinner, a fool. I’m the lowest, I know nothing.

*This your statement is totally agreeable, and the final truth about all the reality of us and Him,  thus no more need for any  arguments or discussions.

 

But I love Him. (Chapeau, a very noble sentiment of love and purity, keep it up always)

*You love Him, for you are what you are(atma),  and He is He Himself(Waheguru Akal Purukh/Paramatma) . 

 

No, I love Him as me and me as Him. Denying that He/ Truth is the powerhouse of everyone and everything is ego. We are Nothing. The reality is that we cannot eat, live, breathe without Him. He is us and we are Him, ocean in the drop, drop in the ocean. We humans deny it for the sake of being right, humans find it difficult to accept that we are Nothing. 

[SunnySingh]

9 hours ago, Sikhilove said:

No, I love Him as me and me as Him. Denying that He/ Truth is the powerhouse of everyone and everything is ego. We are Nothing. The reality is that we cannot eat, live, breathe without Him. He is us and we are Him, ocean in the drop, drop in the ocean. We humans deny it for the sake of being right, humans find it difficult to accept that we are Nothing. 

Sikhilove Jee,

nobody is denying that He is the powerhouse of everything, be it in the islam, in the hinduism, in christianism, in buddhism, and in sikhism of course with more and explict emphasis.

Please clear your position which denotes more confussion/contradictions than anything,

For at one place you say : we are Nothing,

at other place you say : I’m just a fool, an idiot, a sinner, a fool. I’m the lowest, I know nothing,

and at some other place you wrote: He is Sun, moon, houses, demon, angel, dukh sukh.....

So logically, if we take your words above as seen in the upper line, according to your words, He is equal to a sinner, to nothing, to the lowest, to an idiot ... and so on, because you say we are Him....

When the truth is He has none of  all that negative  descriptions/attributes  as seen above in your different statements..

Can you see the amount of contradictions you have incurred into?

No humans  say that He is not the ultimate Truth, it is only that some humans say they are equal to god and thus are god, and not only that, but go the extent of equating insentient and unconsciouss things to the Highest Soul consciousness, which is just an total aberration .

In case you have not gone through the Shabad above, where Guru Jee describes our true limited nature with the most Highest and Absolute Truth, here it goes again, and hope you take good note of it: 

 

soriT mhlw 5(613-10)
sorath mehlaa 5
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl

hm mYly qum aUjl krqy hm inrgun qU dwqw ]
ham mailay tum oojal kartay ham nirgun too daataa.
We are filthy, and You are immaculate, O Creator Lord; we are worthless, and You are the Great Giver.

hm mUrK qum cqur isAwxy qU srb klw kw igAwqw ]1]
ham moorakh tum chatur si-aanay too sarab kalaa kaa gi-aataa. ||1||
We are fools, and You are wise and all-knowing. You are the knower of all things. ||1||

mwDo hm AYsy qU AYsw ]
maaDho ham aisay too aisaa.
O Lord, this is what we are, and this is what You are.

hm pwpI qum pwp KMfn nIko Twkur dysw ] rhwau ]
ham paapee tum paap khandan neeko thaakur daysaa. rahaa-o.
We are sinners, and You are the Destroyer of sins. Your abode is so beautiful, O Lord and Master. ||Pause||

qum sB swjy swij invwjy jIau ipMfu dy pRwnw ]
tum sabh saajay saaj nivaajay jee-o pind day paraanaa.
You fashion all, and having fashioned them, You bless them. You bestow upon them soul, body and the breath of life.

inrgunIAwry gunu nhI koeI qum dwnu dyhu imhrvwnw ]2]
nirgunee-aaray gun nahee ko-ee tum daan dayh miharvaanaa. ||2||
We are worthless - we have no virtue at all; please, bless us with Your gift, O Merciful Lordand Master. ||2||

qum krhu Blw hm Blo n jwnh qum sdw sdw dieAwlw ]
tum karahu bhalaa ham bhalo na jaanah tum sadaa sadaa da-i-aalaa.
You do good for us, but we do not see it as good; You are kind and compassionate, forever and ever.

qum suKdweI purK ibDwqy qum rwKhu Apuny bwlw ]3]
tum sukh-daa-ee purakh biDhaatay tum raakho apunay baalaa. ||3||
You are the Giver of peace, the Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny; please, save us, Your children! ||3||

qum inDwn Atl suilqwn jIA jMq siB jwcY ]
tum niDhaan atal sulitaan jee-a jant sabh jaachai.
You are the treasure, eternal Lord King; all beings and creatures beg of You.

khu nwnk hm iehY hvwlw rwKu sMqn kY pwCY ]4]6]17]
kaho naanak ham ihai havaalaa raakh santan kai paachhai. ||4||6||17||
Says Nanak, such is our condition; please, Lord, keep us on the Path of the Saints. ||4||6||17||

 

*As seen above, this is the true wadeeayee of my Sachay Paatshah Waheguru Akal Purukh in the paviter words of Guru Jee, where only He is important, the rest of us are all paapee and moorakhs.

Anything else which does not match this idea of us and Him per Bani, is an attitude problem, of strong ahankar, of agyanta, thus not to be taken into account by anyone, no matter even if repeated many times, for it is totally against Sikhee.

 

[Sikhilove]

3 hours ago, SunnySingh said:

Sikhilove Jee,

nobody is denying that He is the powerhouse of everything, be it in the islam, in the hinduism, in christianism, in buddhism, and in sikhism of course with more and explict emphasis.

Please clear your position which denotes more confussion/contradictions than anything,

For at one place you say : we are Nothing,

at other place you say : I’m just a fool, an idiot, a sinner, a fool. I’m the lowest, I know nothing,

and at some other place you wrote: He is Sun, moon, houses, demon, angel, dukh sukh.....

So logically, if we take your words above as seen in the upper line, according to your words, He is equal to a sinner, to nothing, to the lowest, to an idiot ... and so on, because you say we are Him....

When the truth is He has none of  all that negative  descriptions/attributes  as seen above in your different statements..

Can you see the amount of contradictions you have incurred into?

No humans  say that He is not the ultimate Truth, it is only that some humans say they are equal to god and thus are god, and not only that, but go the extent of equating insentient and unconsciouss things to the Highest Soul consciousness, which is just an total aberration .

In case you have not gone through the Shabad above, where Guru Jee describes our true limited nature with the most Highest and Absolute Truth, here it goes again, and hope you take good note of it: 

 

soriT mhlw 5(613-10)
sorath mehlaa 5
Sorat'h, Fifth Mehl

hm mYly qum aUjl krqy hm inrgun qU dwqw ]
ham mailay tum oojal kartay ham nirgun too daataa.
We are filthy, and You are immaculate, O Creator Lord; we are worthless, and You are the Great Giver.

hm mUrK qum cqur isAwxy qU srb klw kw igAwqw ]1]
ham moorakh tum chatur si-aanay too sarab kalaa kaa gi-aataa. ||1||
We are fools, and You are wise and all-knowing. You are the knower of all things. ||1||

mwDo hm AYsy qU AYsw ]
maaDho ham aisay too aisaa.
O Lord, this is what we are, and this is what You are.

hm pwpI qum pwp KMfn nIko Twkur dysw ] rhwau ]
ham paapee tum paap khandan neeko thaakur daysaa. rahaa-o.
We are sinners, and You are the Destroyer of sins. Your abode is so beautiful, O Lord and Master. ||Pause||

qum sB swjy swij invwjy jIau ipMfu dy pRwnw ]
tum sabh saajay saaj nivaajay jee-o pind day paraanaa.
You fashion all, and having fashioned them, You bless them. You bestow upon them soul, body and the breath of life.

inrgunIAwry gunu nhI koeI qum dwnu dyhu imhrvwnw ]2]
nirgunee-aaray gun nahee ko-ee tum daan dayh miharvaanaa. ||2||
We are worthless - we have no virtue at all; please, bless us with Your gift, O Merciful Lordand Master. ||2||

qum krhu Blw hm Blo n jwnh qum sdw sdw dieAwlw ]
tum karahu bhalaa ham bhalo na jaanah tum sadaa sadaa da-i-aalaa.
You do good for us, but we do not see it as good; You are kind and compassionate, forever and ever.

qum suKdweI purK ibDwqy qum rwKhu Apuny bwlw ]3]
tum sukh-daa-ee purakh biDhaatay tum raakho apunay baalaa. ||3||
You are the Giver of peace, the Primal Lord, the Architect of Destiny; please, save us, Your children! ||3||

qum inDwn Atl suilqwn jIA jMq siB jwcY ]
tum niDhaan atal sulitaan jee-a jant sabh jaachai.
You are the treasure, eternal Lord King; all beings and creatures beg of You.

khu nwnk hm iehY hvwlw rwKu sMqn kY pwCY ]4]6]17]
kaho naanak ham ihai havaalaa raakh santan kai paachhai. ||4||6||17||
Says Nanak, such is our condition; please, Lord, keep us on the Path of the Saints. ||4||6||17||

 

*As seen above, this is the true wadeeayee of my Sachay Paatshah Waheguru Akal Purukh in the paviter words of Guru Jee, where only He is important, the rest of us are all paapee and moorakhs.

Anything else which does not match this idea of us and Him per Bani, is an attitude problem, of strong ahankar, of agyanta, thus not to be taken into account by anyone, no matter even if repeated many times, for it is totally against Sikhee.

 

The Gurus gave us Gurbani to realise what they did. God blessed us with the 14 Realms to realise what He has. There is no contradiction and there Is No Logic in True Love.

We are Nothing, yet we are the drop in the ocean, made from the same stuff as the ocean. I’m not getting gurbani twisted. You haven’t read gurbani properly. It says He is the angel, He is the demon, He is the Good, the Bad, the Light and the Dark, dressed up in different costumes. sometimes he sits as a king, sometimes a beggar, sometimes a good being, sometimes a bad being. What you fail to realise is that it’s all an illusion, a khel, your body, my body, all of it. Everything with an image or form, is a projection of Him/ Sat. In Truth, there is no image, no form, no shape, no colour. 
 

There is no you or me, only One. It must be experienced and is beyond worldly logic. We live in Nirboah and Nirvair, for its All Him. Is that ego?

The demon is a demon due to ignorance of its true nature and not practicing Truth. Even Sajjan Thug the serial killer became Guru Nanaks student, a bhagat, with the knowledge and application of Truth (gurbani). 

[SunnySingh]

23 hours ago, Sikhilove said:

The Gurus gave us Gurbani to realise what they did. God blessed us with the 14 Realms to realise what He has. There is no contradiction and there Is No Logic in True Love.

We are Nothing, yet we are the drop in the ocean, made from the same stuff as the ocean. I’m not getting gurbani twisted. You haven’t read gurbani properly. It says He is the angel, He is the demon, He is the Good, the Bad, the Light and the Dark, dressed up in different costumes. sometimes he sits as a king, sometimes a beggar, sometimes a good being, sometimes a bad being. What you fail to realise is that it’s all an illusion, a khel, your body, my body, all of it. Everything with an image or form, is a projection of Him/ Sat. In Truth, there is no image, no form, no shape, no colour. 
 

There is no you or me, only One. It must be experienced and is beyond worldly logic. We live in Nirboah and Nirvair, for its All Him. Is that ego?

The demon is a demon due to ignorance of its true nature and not practicing Truth. Even Sajjan Thug the serial killer became Guru Nanaks student, a bhagat, with the knowledge and application of Truth (gurbani). 

 

We are Nothing, yet we are the drop in the ocean, made from the same stuff as the ocean.

* You are mixing up things because of  lack of clarity, and you keep on hopping whenever some of your wordings are placed before you as inconsistent, and you then do tend to go in a different direction with other arguments, instead of  first clearing  the first errors.  

In this way, you can never ever reach any shore, and I refuse to play or enter into such a absurd game, where I humbly try to come near as much as possible to Gurbani in a constructive manner. 

Firstly you say we are god, as also the demon and the angels are god,  and all the insentient materialistic things  also are god,  just as houses, moon, sun, things are god, and are equal to god, then you say we are a drop in the ocean, then you jump to bring the term love into scene ..... just too much

Can you see how many contradictions are there in your statements ? 

You are mixing and equating material and insentient  things, with an Entity which is the most subtle and only spiritual. So that is an absolute aberration from your side.

 

There is no you or me, only One. It must be experienced and is beyond worldly logic. We live in Nirboah and Nirvair, for its All Him.

Is that ego?

*Yes it is ego,  because it is a wrong statement, and because you are equaiting Him, the One who is the highest consciousness to the gross and insentient things, you are equating Him to the demon, to the lifeless moon and sun, houses and so on .... 

Nowhere Gurbani says such nonsense, thus it is a twisting to justify your ego only, in which you have locked up tightly yourself and you refuse to see what the reality is about true spirituality as per Gurbani.  That is your problem.

I have met so many people, of different cultures, nationalities, believers, atheists, but none say such aberrations of equating Him to the gross and insentient things/objects, or even equate Him to negative and lower or higher  energies, for He above all that paraphernalia and variety which is His creation, while He is the sole Creator.

 

The demon is a demon due to ignorance of its true nature and not practicing Truth.

*Wrong, the demon is a demon in nature due to its past karmas/sanskaras.  

And your comments about the demon not practicing the truth, or be it anybody, it is not a matter of ignorance , it is only a matter of grace from Him as seen clearly in he following verse of Sree Guru Amar Das Maharaj :

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੩॥

Har Har Naam Dhhiaaeeai Jis No Kirapaa Karae Rajaae ||3||

By His Will He grants His Grace; those who are so blessed, meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. 

 

 Even Sajjan Thug the serial killer became Guru Nanaks student, a bhagat, with the knowledge and application of Truth (gurbani).  
*So if Sajjan Thug became a student of Nanak, it means first of all he was not god, otherwise he would not be an evil person, and if he came to Guru Nanak´s shelter; it was more likely that he was pulled by Guru Nanak Himself, for He is omnipotent and  omniscient, thus if He wants to pull someone out, then not even Dharam Rai can stop that jeev atma, in going towards PARAMATMA Waheguru Akal Purukh.

 Please do not ever say Gurbani says all that baseless  statements you make as seen up to the date, do support your conclusions, interpretations, theories,  with Gurbani in the future, otherwise they have no value, because in these matters, you talk from your ego.

it is a pity, for you have love and devotion for Him as seen many a times, but unfortunately when describing Him and His creation, you are messed up and very much confused with contradictions as seen in your posts.

 

Would just like to conclude with some beautiful  verses of Guru Jee, where He tells  us what is Truth all about, and what is practicing that Truth:

 

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਏ ਸੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਹਹਿ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ॥੪॥੫॥੩੮॥

Naanak Aaeae Sae Paravaan Hehi Jin Guramathee Har Dhhiaae ||4||5||38||

O Nanak, blessed is the coming of those who follow the Guru's Teachings and meditate on the Lord.

 

ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਰਾਸਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ॥

Har Bhagathaa Har Dhhan Raas Hai Gur Pooshh Karehi Vaapaar ||

The devotees of the Lord have the Wealth and Capital of the Lord; with Guru's Advice, they carry on their trade.

 

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਨਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਖਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥

Har Naam Salaahan Sadhaa Sadhaa Vakhar Har Naam Adhhaar ||

They praise the Name of the Lord forever and ever. The Name of the Lord is their Merchandise and Support.

 

ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਅਤੁਟੁ ਭੰਡਾਰੁ ॥੧॥

Gur Poorai Har Naam Dhrirraaeiaa Har Bhagathaa Athutt Bhanddaar ||1||

The Perfect Guru has implanted the Name of the Lord into the Lord's devotees; it is an Inexhaustible Treasure. 

 

ਕਰਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਰਮੈ ਪਾਇਆ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

Karam Milai Thaa Paaeeai Vin Karamai Paaeiaa N Jaae ||

Those who receive His Grace find Him. Without His Grace, He cannot be found.

 

At other place He goes a step further and says something which puts down your theory where you not only equate all living beings to Him, but also the gross or subtle and insentient creations: 

 

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਤਰਸਦੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਮੇਲੇ ਸੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਇ ॥

Lakh Chouraaseeh Tharasadhae Jis Maelae So Milai Har Aae ||

The 8.4 million species of beings all yearn for the Lord. Those whom He unites, come to be united with the Lord.

* From this we understand clearly that all the jeevas in the 8.4 million are lost in His creation, and then, only those whom He showers with His grace, find Him and become one with Him, thus until then, nobody is god.

Nowhere Guru Jee says that the moon, the sun or houses or alike merge in Him, for they are made out of the 5 perishable tattwas.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

P.S : Can you see how Gurbani differs totally with your misundertandings or own made theories?

 

[gjsingh]

Literal belief in reincarnation is ridiculous from a scientific and religious point of view. Various commentators of SGGS have elucidated alternative explanations, e.g., Karminder S. Dhillon. In any event, the transmigration of the soul is completely secondary to all the main tenets of Sikh Dharam.

[Sikhilove]

On 2/6/2021 at 7:05 PM, SunnySingh said:

 

We are Nothing, yet we are the drop in the ocean, made from the same stuff as the ocean.

* You are mixing up things because of  lack of clarity, and you keep on hopping whenever some of your wordings are placed before you as inconsistent, and you then do tend to go in a different direction with other arguments, instead of  first clearing  the first errors.  

In this way, you can never ever reach any shore, and I refuse to play or enter into such a absurd game, where I humbly try to come near as much as possible to Gurbani in a constructive manner. 

Firstly you say we are god, as also the demon and the angels are god,  and all the insentient materialistic things  also are god,  just as houses, moon, sun, things are god, and are equal to god, then you say we are a drop in the ocean, then you jump to bring the term love into scene ..... just too much

Can you see how many contradictions are there in your statements ? 

You are mixing and equating material and insentient  things, with an Entity which is the most subtle and only spiritual. So that is an absolute aberration from your side.

 

There is no you or me, only One. It must be experienced and is beyond worldly logic. We live in Nirboah and Nirvair, for its All Him.

Is that ego?

*Yes it is ego,  because it is a wrong statement, and because you are equaiting Him, the One who is the highest consciousness to the gross and insentient things, you are equating Him to the demon, to the lifeless moon and sun, houses and so on .... 

Nowhere Gurbani says such nonsense, thus it is a twisting to justify your ego only, in which you have locked up tightly yourself and you refuse to see what the reality is about true spirituality as per Gurbani.  That is your problem.

I have met so many people, of different cultures, nationalities, believers, atheists, but none say such aberrations of equating Him to the gross and insentient things/objects, or even equate Him to negative and lower or higher  energies, for He above all that paraphernalia and variety which is His creation, while He is the sole Creator.

 

The demon is a demon due to ignorance of its true nature and not practicing Truth.

*Wrong, the demon is a demon in nature due to its past karmas/sanskaras.  

And your comments about the demon not practicing the truth, or be it anybody, it is not a matter of ignorance , it is only a matter of grace from Him as seen clearly in he following verse of Sree Guru Amar Das Maharaj :

ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਜਿਸ ਨਉ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੇ ਰਜਾਇ ॥੩॥

Har Har Naam Dhhiaaeeai Jis No Kirapaa Karae Rajaae ||3||

By His Will He grants His Grace; those who are so blessed, meditate on the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. 

 

 Even Sajjan Thug the serial killer became Guru Nanaks student, a bhagat, with the knowledge and application of Truth (gurbani).  
*So if Sajjan Thug became a student of Nanak, it means first of all he was not god, otherwise he would not be an evil person, and if he came to Guru Nanak´s shelter; it was more likely that he was pulled by Guru Nanak Himself, for He is omnipotent and  omniscient, thus if He wants to pull someone out, then not even Dharam Rai can stop that jeev atma, in going towards PARAMATMA Waheguru Akal Purukh.

 Please do not ever say Gurbani says all that baseless  statements you make as seen up to the date, do support your conclusions, interpretations, theories,  with Gurbani in the future, otherwise they have no value, because in these matters, you talk from your ego.

it is a pity, for you have love and devotion for Him as seen many a times, but unfortunately when describing Him and His creation, you are messed up and very much confused with contradictions as seen in your posts.

 

Would just like to conclude with some beautiful  verses of Guru Jee, where He tells  us what is Truth all about, and what is practicing that Truth:

 

ਨਾਨਕ ਆਏ ਸੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ਹਹਿ ਜਿਨ ਗੁਰਮਤੀ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇ ॥੪॥੫॥੩੮॥

Naanak Aaeae Sae Paravaan Hehi Jin Guramathee Har Dhhiaae ||4||5||38||

O Nanak, blessed is the coming of those who follow the Guru's Teachings and meditate on the Lord.

 

ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਧਨੁ ਰਾਸਿ ਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਵਾਪਾਰੁ ॥

Har Bhagathaa Har Dhhan Raas Hai Gur Pooshh Karehi Vaapaar ||

The devotees of the Lord have the Wealth and Capital of the Lord; with Guru's Advice, they carry on their trade.

 

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਨਿ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਵਖਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥

Har Naam Salaahan Sadhaa Sadhaa Vakhar Har Naam Adhhaar ||

They praise the Name of the Lord forever and ever. The Name of the Lord is their Merchandise and Support.

 

ਗੁਰਿ ਪੂਰੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਇਆ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਾ ਅਤੁਟੁ ਭੰਡਾਰੁ ॥੧॥

Gur Poorai Har Naam Dhrirraaeiaa Har Bhagathaa Athutt Bhanddaar ||1||

The Perfect Guru has implanted the Name of the Lord into the Lord's devotees; it is an Inexhaustible Treasure. 

 

ਕਰਮਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਤਾ ਪਾਈਐ ਵਿਣੁ ਕਰਮੈ ਪਾਇਆ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

Karam Milai Thaa Paaeeai Vin Karamai Paaeiaa N Jaae ||

Those who receive His Grace find Him. Without His Grace, He cannot be found.

 

At other place He goes a step further and says something which puts down your theory where you not only equate all living beings to Him, but also the gross or subtle and insentient creations: 

 

ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਤਰਸਦੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਮੇਲੇ ਸੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਇ ॥

Lakh Chouraaseeh Tharasadhae Jis Maelae So Milai Har Aae ||

The 8.4 million species of beings all yearn for the Lord. Those whom He unites, come to be united with the Lord.

* From this we understand clearly that all the jeevas in the 8.4 million are lost in His creation, and then, only those whom He showers with His grace, find Him and become one with Him, thus until then, nobody is god.

Nowhere Guru Jee says that the moon, the sun or houses or alike merge in Him, for they are made out of the 5 perishable tattwas.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

P.S : Can you see how Gurbani differs totally with your misundertandings or own made theories?

 

You can’t force anyone to agree with you, which I don’t. Everyone’s God, we just are ignorant and arrogant to humble ourselves as nothing and accept it’s all Him. Thinking you are beyond Him is ego. If He weren’t you, you wouldn’t be able to move, breathe etc. Your desire to be right has clouded your judgement. You think Him to be far away when He Is You. It isn’t ego to think He’s you, it’s ego to think He’s not and you miraculously move around and were born by your own grace.

[SunnySingh]

21 hours ago, Sikhilove said:

You can’t force anyone to agree with you, which I don’t. Everyone’s God, we just are ignorant and arrogant to humble ourselves as nothing and accept it’s all Him. Thinking you are beyond Him is ego. If He weren’t you, you wouldn’t be able to move, breathe etc. Your desire to be right has clouded your judgement. You think Him to be far away when He Is You. It isn’t ego to think He’s you, it’s ego to think He’s not and you miraculously move around and were born by your own grace.

As I said, I refuse to play your absurd game from now on, as you are continuing  with your closed and confused  mindset, so whatever and however I may try to reason with you,  it is useless.

I leave you to your own destiny/karam, don't want to waste time on paranoid theories which are nothing, but total aberrations, like for example to say: houses, sun, moon, demons, are god....

[Sikhilove]

39 minutes ago, SunnySingh said:

As I said, I refuse to play your absurd game from now on, as you are continuing  with your closed and confused  mindset, so whatever and however I may try to reason with you,  it is useless.

I leave you to your own destiny/karam, don't want to waste time on paranoid theories which are nothing, but total aberrations, like for example to say: houses, sun, moon, demons, are god....

Games.. All I’m saying is that God is All and we are nothing. There are no games, I spoke the Truth. How do you think the Gurus were able to see the worst type of human beings possible (demons in human form) with love. There is Nothing. We are Nothing, we have Nothing. There’s only God. It can’t get much simpler, but most humans like to live in complication. It’s beyond worldly logic and ego. It’s discovered through Love.