Samarbir Singh Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Veer Ji, Satguru Guru Nanak Dev Ji are one with Vaheguru. Satguru Ji are Vaheguru himself. Vaheguru himself came in Kalyug in form of Guru Nanak Dev Ji to spread the divine message and liberate people by giving then naam. There is only difference in form. Vaheguru is nirgun in whom gursikh merges back like a drop goes into the ocean. And Satguru is sargun saroop of Vaheguru which we can see. When we say that Brahmgyani becomes one with Vaheguru then we mean that now they have become a roop of Vaheguru only. It's just like a river has joined the ocean back. But this doesn't mean that Brahmgyami becomes Vaheguru. Brahmgyanis are forever alive and live in Sachkhand praising Vaheguru who lives with them. "Sachkhand waise Nirankaar" Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh WJKK WJKF Yes yes they become one with Vaheguru Ji but they are not Pita Ji themselves but, they are one with them. Bhul Chuk Maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 @sarabatam - Paaji, can you please make a separate topic (possible name - Is Sikhism - the only way to God), as this topic has gone off-topic? Please move all the off-topic posts to that new thread. Thanks a lot Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Truth is ONE and Eternal. There is only one truth. When we say that there is only ONE Truth (which is eternal), that means that there is ONLY ONE final destination (Sachkhand). There are MULTIPLE ways to that destination. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Sarab Dharam mein Shrest Dharam Har ko Naam Jap Nirmal Karam. Out of all the interpretations/religions of God we have today, only one is ABSOLUTE TRUTH. One of the interpretations of the above verses is as follows Out of all the righteous paths, the best path is to recite the name of Akal Purakh and engage in good deeds. Therefore, it can apply to ALL people (Sikhs or non-Sikhs). Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: And Guru sahib says, Ram Rahim Puran Kuran Anek Kahe mat Ek na manyo (I don't believe in the message that Vedas give about Ram and the Quran about Rahim) Thus means that Vedas and Quran are not the absolute truth. The above verse is from Sri Dasam Gurbani. Sri Dasam Gurbani has a lot of specific injunctions for Sikhs. Lets see what Sri Aad Gurbani (which is meant for the ENTRIE human race) says about Vedas and the Islamic texts. ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ Do not call the Vedas and the Islamic texts as false; false is that person who does not contemplate on them. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 9 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: If the Hindu Dieties and the writers of Bible, Vedas and Quran didnt liberation then how can their followers attain liberation? The followers can, as Sri Waheguru jee resides in ALL. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: A vedic Hindu can't be called a vedic Hindu if he doesn't worship Shiv Ji /Vishnu Ji because these are the God as per Vedas. Have you read the Vedas? Daas is almost certain that the Vedas encourage the worship of the ONE universal creator. Gurbani clearly says that "Naam" is the highest according to the Vedas. ਵੇਦਾ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਉਤਮੁ ਸੋ ਸੁਣਹਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਜਿਉ ਬੇਤਾਲਿਆ ॥ Bhuk chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 9 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Veerji, you are mistaken, here Kabir Ji is not talking about the Khalsa which was formally prakash-ed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Here Khalse means pure. The main point is ANY person (Sikh or Non-Sikh) can become a Khalsa (spiritually pure one). Sri Satguru jee has made it crystal clear in Sri Aad Gurbani. When Maharaaj said "Raaj Karega Khalsa", it DOES NOT mean that the Amritdhari Sikhs will rule. It means that the SPIRITUALLY PURE ONES will rule. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Bin Satgur kinne na paayeo Bin Satgur kinne na payea [Noone can achieve anything (includes liberation) without Satguru and Satguru is Guru Nanak Dev Ji only] Amrit Peevoh Sadaa Chir Jeevoh [O siblings of destiny take the Holy Amrit and live forever!] Peevoh Pahaul Khandetaar Hoye Janam Suhelaa [Drink the KHANDE DI PAHAUL and reap the profit of this human life, that is, liberation] Satgur kai Bhaane Jo Chalai Har Saeti Ralliya [ One who follows the hukam of the True Guru merges back into Vaheguru] First verse - Daas has already mentioned, one of the arths of the word SATGUR. Second verse - Amrit resides in ALL humans (Sikhs and non-Sikhs). Third verse - Specific instruction for Sikhs. Isn't that from a Rehatnama? Fourth verse - Again, the word SATGUR in that verse can mean Sri Waheguru jee. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 10 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Muslims practice fasting, do Halal, bow in one direction while Namaz and bow in front of kabars (dead people coffin). A person who practices all this can't do bhagti. Who the hell told you this thing? Which preachers are you listening to brother? You are telling me that a devout Muslim who fasts, eats Halal food, bows in the direction of Kaaba, etc, CANNOT do Bhagti? Read your comment (above), again and think deeply whether it is GURMAT OR MANMAT. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 9 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Now if you say what if the Hindus start worshipping Vaheguru? Answer is they will no longer remain a Hindu if they don't worship Shiv/Vishnu because then they would have to reject the Vedas. Again, who the hell is telling you these things? Where are you getting this stuff from? You are telling me that, if a devout Hindu worships Sri Waheguru jee or Parmatma or Parmeshwar, he will no longer remain a Hindu? Can you please provide a reference from the Vedas to prove your point? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 9 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Now if you say what if the Hindus start worshipping Vaheguru? Answer is they will no longer remain a Hindu if they don't worship Shiv/Vishnu because then they would have to reject the Vedas. There is a story (most likely in one of the Ramayans) in which Sita jee starts laughing at Hanuman jee, when he thinks that she is referring to Sri Raam Chandar jee as RAAM (Akaal Purakh). She informs him that she is talking about Sri Waheguru jee (RAAM), who created this Raam (referring to Sri Raam Chandar jee). Something along these lines. The above Sakhi clearly illustrates that Sita jee knew about Sri Waheguru jee. Even, Rikhi Vishisht Muni jee (Vidhya Guru of Sri Raam Chandar jee) is referred to as a GURMUKH in Gurbani. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 10 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Thus non Sikhs have to leave their religion to stop doing pakhand (fasting,idol worship) which are an integral part of their religion. Even Vedic Hindus (and Muslims, Christians, etc) are against Idol worship, Animal worship, etc. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 9 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Satguru Guru Nanak Dev Ji are one with Vaheguru. Satguru Ji are Vaheguru himself. Vaheguru himself came in Kalyug in form of Guru Nanak Dev Ji to spread the divine message and liberate people by giving then naam. There is only difference in form. Vaheguru is nirgun in whom gursikh merges back like a drop goes into the ocean. And Satguru is sargun saroop of Vaheguru which we can see. So according to you, NO ONE reached Sachkhand in the previous three jugs? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurbarAkaal Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingh6 Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, GurbarAkaal said: This is an absolutely brilliant capture of all the noise generated in the last few days on this from a simple question of a humble seeker. The ones making the most noise will drown the seekers query and if I were him (as I was in the 90s), be left thoroughly confused. For the seeker and the original querist - take Guru Gobind Singhs hukam and Bhai Gurdas's vaar as your north star to guide you. Guru Gobind Singh Sahibs hukam is - jin prem keeo tin prabh payeo (tvay prasad savaiey- those who have love in their hearts for the Akal Purakh have found him) while Bhai Gurdas motivates us by saying that if we take one step towards Vahiguru, he takes millions of steps to reach us... https://www.sikhitothemax.org/shabad?id=41140&q=skpA&type=1&source=B&highlight=208210 ਚਰਨ ਸਰਨ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕ ਪੈਂਡਾ ਜਾਇ ਚਲ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੋਟਿ ਪੈਂਡਾ ਆਗੇ ਹੋਇ ਲੇਤ ਹੈ ॥ charan saran gur ek pai(n)ddaa jai chal satigur koT pai(n)ddaa aage hoi let hai || A disciple who walks one step towards Guru to take his refuge and goes to him with devotion and humility, Guru advances to receive him (devotee) by taking million steps. Rest is all noise - let it not confuse you or detract you from your goal... best wishes on this path Edited May 19, 2021 by hsingh6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingh6 Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 On 5/11/2021 at 10:42 PM, Trimandeep Singh said: I may not seem correct but these are not my vichar but those of tyar bar tyar sarblohi gursikhs. They say that a non amritdhari shouldn't chant naam as one gets naam from Guru roop Panj pyaare only. This video will answer your question. Also, you should do lots of abhyaas of bani than naam. https://m.facebook.com/Gurmatbibek/videos/388824204970543/ Daas, Trimandeep Singh All streams which disconnected from the river, try and prove their superiority to main river, even though they are insignificant compared to the rivers vastness. Please note that no matter what we chose to describe ourselves as, we have no clue about the bakshish of Guru Sahib and the vastness of his heart....the foundation of any path to Guru Sahib is pyaar (love and affection for the Guru) not exclusivity to a path. Yes, following a disciplined rehat and Guru Sahibs hukams is extremely important as it shows our devotion to the Guru, but to state the we are Sar**** Sikhs or abc/exyz sikhs is disturbing as it shows exclusivity and attempts to put us at a higher pedestal to the others - which our Guru is never happy with. Even we cannot claim that we are Sikhs..its only when Guru Sahib accepts us a Sikh do we become Sikhs. Till such time we are just on the path to him...a path that is arduous requiring self effort and not a womb lottery to be born in a sikh family. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 55 minutes ago, hsingh6 said: The ones making the most noise will drown the seekers query and if I were him (as I was in the 90s), be left thoroughly confused. A request has already been made by Daas, to move off-topic posts to a new thread. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 5 hours ago, paapiman said: The above verse is from Sri Dasam Gurbani. Sri Dasam Gurbani has a lot of specific injunctions for Sikhs. Lets see what Sri Aad Gurbani (which is meant for the ENTRIE human race) says about Vedas and the Islamic texts. ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ Do not call the Vedas and the Islamic texts as false; false is that person who does not contemplate on them. Bhul chuk maaf The same bani also says Simrit Sastra Punn Paap Beechaarde Tathe Saare Na Jaani [The Vedas discriminate between good and evil but don't know the essence of reality] Tatai Saar Na Jaani Guru Bajau Tatai Saar Na Jaani [Without the true guru they can't know the essence of reality] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsingh6 Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: The same bani also says Simrit Sastra Punn Paap Beechaarde Tathe Saare Na Jaani [The Vedas discriminate between good and evil but don't know the essence of reality] Tatai Saar Na Jaani Guru Bajau Tatai Saar Na Jaani [Without the true guru they can't know the essence of reality] We grant it to you that you are the biggest gyani in the panth - quick with your retorts using Gurbani out of context. Can you please bless us with silence on this matter for a few days at least, if not in perpetuity. Humble request with folded hands. We are not used to such kind of discussions on this forum...this is a peaceful learning place where practitioners are humble enough to share their experiences to help guide others attempting to walk on this path. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Simrit Sastra Punn Paap Beechaarde Tathe Saare Na Jaani [The Vedas discriminate between good and evil but don't know the essence of reality] Tatai Saar Na Jaani Guru Bajau Tatai Saar Na Jaani [Without the true guru they can't know the essence of reality] Aren't Shastars and Simritis different from the Vedas? Again, over here "GURU" can refer to a non-Sikh Brahamgyani too. Like for example, Bhagat Ramanand jee Maharaaj was the GURU of Bhagat Kabir jee Maharaaj. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 5 hours ago, paapiman said: The followers can, as Sri Waheguru jee resides in ALL. Bhul chuk maaf The followers can't because the person whom they follow encourages them to worship himself. Sri Dasam Granth Says Mahadev Achut Kehvaayo Bisan Aap Hee Ko Thhehrayo [Shiv called himself blotless and Vishnu called himself the Supreme] Brahma Aap Parabrahm Bakhana Prabh ko Prabhu na kinhoo jaana [Brahma called himself Parabrahm but none could comprehend the lord] So, my point is that the followers of these devte will listen to their guidance only, right? And when their followers will ask them who to worship, Shiv Ji will say worship me, Vishnu will say worship me and Brahma will say worship me. So, followers will obviously worship the devte only and not Vaheguru and hence can't attain liberation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 14 minutes ago, hsingh6 said: We grant it to you that you are the biggest gyani in the panth - quick with your retorts using Gurbani out of context. Can you please bless us with silence on this matter for a few days at least, if not in perpetuity. Humble request with folded hands. We are not used to such kind of discussions on this forum...this is a peaceful learning place where practitioners are humble enough to share their experiences to help guide others attempting to walk on this path. Sorry Bhai sahib Ji if I am seem to be arrogant and egoistic. I just feel so sad that today Sikhs are so much into adopting modern filmy morals than gurmat. I don't claim myself to be a Giani or I am the one who can understand Gurbani accurately. Gurbani is Agaadh Bodh. Whatever I am speaking is not based on what I have learned from reading Gurbani myself. I have just written down the opinion of a Brahmgyami Gurmukh Sachkhand Vasi Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji. In his book, Gurmat Gauravta he has highlighted the superiority of Gurmat over all other mats in this world. This modern day thinking that all religions are just different paths to Vaheguru is purely blasphemy. Without giving your head to Satguru Nanak Dev Ji, no-one can attain liberation and that's the main point. If I am spreading any negativity on the forum then I ask for forgiveness at the feet of all the sangat here. If I acted in Haumai then please give maafi to this Daas. As your hukam, I will not post anything on this thread now. May Guru sahib give Bibek Budhi to all Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: So, my point is that the followers of these devte will listen to their guidance only, right? And when their followers will ask them who to worship, Shiv Ji will say worship me, Vishnu will say worship me and Brahma will say worship me. So, followers will obviously worship the devte only and not Vaheguru and hence can't attain liberation. What about the Vedic Hindu, who worships Sri Waheguru jee? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 minute ago, paapiman said: What about the Vedic Hindu, who worships Sri Waheguru jee? Bhul chuk maaf Bhai sahib as per hukam of sangat ji, let's agree to disagree with each other. Daas regrets any act if done in Haumai. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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