Popular Post paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: I have just written down the opinion of a Brahmgyami Gurmukh Sachkhand Vasi Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji. Bro, Bhai saab jee was ONE AMONG MANY Brahamgyanis of the Panth. Do you have evidence from any other Gurmukh Brahamgyanis (especially the ones connected with Puratan Sampradas*) to support your points? JYFI, AKJ is not a PURATAN Samprada. It started during the British times in Punjab. *Some of the Puratan Sampradas are as follows: Gyani Sampradai (Taksaals associated with Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh jee Maharaaj and Shaheed Baba Deep Singh jee Maharaaj) Nihang Singhs Sevapanthis Bhai Daya Singh Samprada (Rara Sahib, Harkhowal, etc) Nanaksar Bhul chuk maaf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Bhai sahib as per hukam of sangat ji, let's agree to disagree with each other. Daas regrets any act if done in Haumai. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh Bhai saab jee, please keep discussing. It is good to have spiritual intellectual discussions. That is the PURPOSE of the forum. IMHO, we haven't been disrespectful to each other. Anyways, Daas apologizes, if anyone was offended by me. Hopefully, the Root Admin will move these off-topic posts to a new thread soon. @sarabatam Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, paapiman said: Bhai saab, please keep discussing. It is good to have spiritual intellectual discussions. That is the PURPOSE of the forum. IMHO, we haven't been disrespectful to each other. Anyways, Daas apologizes, if anyone was offended by me. Hopefully, the Root Admin will move these off-topic posts to a new thread soon. @sarabatam Bhul chuk maaf Okay Bhai sahib Ji, I'll give my opinion on your 'what if a non Sikh worships Vaheguru Ji' statement once I get permission from @hsingh6 and @GurbarAkaal because I think they didn't like this. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: In his book, Gurmat Gauravta he has highlighted the superiority of Gurmat over all other mats in this world. There is no doubt that Gurmat is SUPERIOR to other mats. But, it DOES NOT mean that it is the ONLY way to Sachkhand. You might know the BEST route to reach Montreal from Toronto, but that does not mean that there are no alternate routes which can be taken, to reach Montreal. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 22 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: This modern day thinking that all religions are just different paths to Vaheguru is purely blasphemy. It is NOT modern day thinking. It is Gurmat. ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਕੋਈ ਬੋਲੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਕੋਈ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥ ਕੋਈ ਸੇਵੈ ਗੁਸਈਆ ਕੋਈ ਅਲਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਰਣ ਕਰੀਮ ॥ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਰਹੀਮ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਵੈ ਤੀਰਥਿ ਕੋਈ ਹਜ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਕੋਈ ਕਰੈ ਪੂਜਾ ਕੋਈ ਸਿਰੁ ਨਿਵਾਇ ॥੨॥ ਕੋਈ ਪੜੈ ਬੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਕਤੇਬ ॥ ਕੋਈ ਓਢੈ ਨੀਲ ਕੋਈ ਸੁਪੇਦ ॥੩॥ ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਤੁਰਕੁ ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਹਿੰਦੂ ॥ ਕੋਈ ਬਾਛੈ ਭਿਸਤੁ ਕੋਈ ਸੁਰਗਿੰਦੂ ॥੪॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਪਛਾਤਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਕਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਜਾਤਾ ॥੫॥੯॥ Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 17 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Chhodeh Ann Kareh Pakhand (Fasting is purely an empty ritual) Please read the uthanka of the Shabad, which contains the verse, which you have quoted. Then, please read the arth of the verse. This Shabad is exposing the hypocrisy of an imposter. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 4 hours ago, paapiman said: Bro, Bhai saab jee was ONE AMONG MANY Brahamgyanis of the Panth. Do you have evidence from any other Gurmukh Brahamgyanis (especially the ones connected with Puratan Sampradas*) to support your points? JYFI, AKJ is not a PURATAN Samprada. It started during the British times in Punjab. *Some of the Puratan Sampradas are as follows: Gyani Sampradai (Taksaals associated with Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh jee Maharaaj and Shaheed Baba Deep Singh jee Maharaaj) Nihang Singhs Sevapanthis Bhai Daya Singh Samprada (Rara Sahib, Harkhowal, etc) Nanaksar Bhul chuk maaf Sachkhand Waasi Sant Giani Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwaale too has to say only Amritdharis, today have to say only 'True Amritdharis' can be liberated. This leaves no doubt in my mind for sure. Two brahmgyanis can't be wrong. The opinion of a Rehitvaan Naam Rasiya Gurmukhs is also enough for me to believe this. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Sachkhand Waasi Sant Giani Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwaale too has to say only Amritdharis, today have to say only 'True Amritdharis' can be liberated. This leaves no doubt in my mind for sure. Two brahmgyanis can't be wrong. The opinion of a Rehitvaan Naam Rasiya Gurmukhs is also enough for me to believe this. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh Do you have the full katha of it? Baba jee probably is saying that for people BORN IN SIKH families, Khande da Amrit is a must for liberation. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 19 minutes ago, paapiman said: Do you have the full katha of it? Baba jee probably is saying that for people BORN IN SIKH families, Khande da Amrit is a must for liberation. Bhul chuk maaf Sant Ji has clearly said only after taking Khande Di Pahaul, one can be mukt. When he mentioned Punjabi Families, he said if you want become a beloved of the Guru AND want to get mukht, then there is no other way. He said that one (not addressing Punjabis) may do countless jaaps of other (hor) mantars and tantars and they may even get the fortune of becoming a human in next life and enjoying pleasures of Brahmlok (heaven in Giaan Khand), but they can't get mukt from Lakh Chaurasi. One has to take Amrit to get mukhti. Also, how can people earn different fruit when they worship the same? You are saying that punjabis can be mukt only by taking Amrit. This implies that they will not get mukht if they worship someone else than waheguru. A Hindu who worships Shiva with love and sacrifice and if another Punjabi worships Shiva with the same amount of love and sacrifice, then both of them will get the same fruit and same amount of affection of Shiv Ji. You can read Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji's Book Gurmat Adhiatam Karam Philosophy to understand Gurmat's perspective on Karam system. Also you can view the debates on this topic in other forums. I am pasting the link. This is my last post because whatever I am saying is explained briefly in the thread. https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,35477 https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,34353,34356#msg-34356 https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,25480,25481#msg-25481 https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,14277 Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: He said that one (not addressing Punjabis) may do countless jaaps of other (hor) mantars and tantars and they may even get the fortune of becoming a human in next life and enjoying pleasures of Brahmlok (heaven in Giaan Khand), but they can't get mukt from Lakh Chaurasi. One has to take Amrit to get mukhti. Are you 100% sure that Sant jee in the above clip, in referring to ALL humans? Can you please find the full clip? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Also, how can people earn different fruit when they worship the same? You are saying that punjabis can be mukt only by taking Amrit. This implies that they will not get mukht if they worship someone else than waheguru. A Hindu who worships Shiva with love and sacrifice and if another Punjabi worships Shiva with the same amount of love and sacrifice, then both of them will get the same fruit and same amount of affection of Shiv Ji. I am sorry brother, Daas did not understand your above points. Can you please explain again? There is a reason, people are born in different religions. We are born in Sikh families. For us, it is mandatory to become Baptized so that we have a chance at salvation. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 19, 2021 Report Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Also you can view the debates on this topic in other forums. I am pasting the link. This is my last post because whatever I am saying is explained briefly in the thread. https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,35477 https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,34353,34356#msg-34356 https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,25480,25481#msg-25481 https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,14277 Gurmat Bibek Singhs are associated with AKJ. Please provide more evidence from Puratan Sampradas (names were provided to you before). Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 12 hours ago, paapiman said: I am sorry brother, Daas did not understand your above points. Can you please explain again? There is a reason, people are born in different religions. We are born in Sikh families. For us, it is mandatory to become Baptized so that we have a chance at salvation. Bhul chuk maaf READ THIS SAAKHI SAAKHI STARTS Bhai Moola, Bhai Sooja, Bhai Chandu, Bhai Raamdaas Bhandaari, Bhai Baala and Bhai Sayeen Daas came to Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee Maharaj and asked a very important and pertinent question about way the system of Karma works in Sikhi. They asked if the Paap (sins) and Punn (good deeds) of Gursikhs are accounted for and rewarded separately or are they netted out against each other and only the remaining Paap or Punn are rewarded. In other words, their question was that as an example if someone has 100 Punns and 60 Paaps, then do they pay for 100 minus 60 = 40 Punns or do they get fruits of 100 Punns and 60 Paaps separately.This is a very relevant question for us. Do our Punns delete our Paaps and do our Paaps dampen the fruits of our Punns or are the Paaps and Punns accounted for separately and the Jeev gets fruits of all the Punns and Paaps they commit.Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee in response to their question, informed them that for the purpose of the accountability of Karma, there are 4 kinds of Sikhs:1. Sehkaam Karmi2. Nihkaam Karmi3. Upaashna waale4. GianiThen Guru Sahib asked them, about which kind of Sikhs was their question related to. The Sikhs with folded hands and extreme humility requested Guru Sahib to tell them about all 4 kinds of Sikhs and how Karma affects them differently.Hereon, the summary of Guru Sahib's Updesh, as written by Bhai Mani Singh jee in Sikha dee Bhagatmaala, is presented:In the rule of a king, there are 4 kinds of citizens. The first kind pay taxes based on a certain percentage and no matter what, they have to pay their share. The second kind have a fixed amount they pay as taxes and even if their income is high, still they end up paying little taxes and get to keep most of their wealth. The third kind are close to the king and sometimes present the king with good horses or other gifts and as a result they enjoy tax free income and also get many other perks. The fourth kind are the Maafi citizens who are very close to the king. They go about travelling with the king and instead of paying taxes, they get paid by the state for being close to the king.Same way, Maharaj jee too has 4 kinds of Sikhs:Sehkaam Karmi, the first type of Sikhs are Sikhs in appearance only but all their priorities are Maya related. Any Karma related to Dharma that they do is only to forward their Maya related agenda. Any Paath or Naam Simran they do is only for their selfish needs. On the heads of such people, the stick of Jamdoots (messengers of death) always remains. Their Paaps and Punns are accounted for separately. If they have total of 160 Karma which include 80 Punns and 80 Paaps, they get fruits of all 160 Karams and none of their sins are netted out against their good deeds. Depending on their Karma, they enjoy the fruits of heaven and hell in the next world. Since they are Sikhs, they do get to be born in the homes of rich and prosperous people in their next life and occasionally are given opportunities to earn Gurmat related Karma - Naam Simran and Gurbani Paath.Nihkaam Karmi, the second type of Sikhs, they become Sikhs not out of some greed or vested interest but because they like to be Dharmi (religious). They do good deeds and religious deeds out of pleasure and because such is their natural disposition, as opposed to doing it just for their Maya-related agenda. Even though they have natural tendency to do good deeds, still they do end up committing many sins as well because due to lack of serious Naam Simran and Gurbani Paath, they come under the influence of Maya and 5 Bikaars. Their Paaps and Punns are taken together and evened out and they only pay for their remaining Karma. As an example, if a Nihkaam Karmi Sikh has a total of 160 Karma which include 100 Punns and 60 Paaps, most of their Karma are netted out and they pay the fruits of only 40 Karma. Their sins are netted out against their good deeds and they seldom go to hell as a punishment of their sins. They get to be born in homes of Sant Gursikhs and are given ample opportunities to engage in Naam Simran and Gurbani Paath.Upaashna Waale Sikh: Upaashna waale Sikhs are such Sikhs who have their priority set on Naam and Gurbani Paath only. Their natural disposition is religious and they willingly do only good Karma. They always do Punns and spend time in Naam Abhyaas and Gurbani Paath but still contrary to their natural disposition, they commit some Paaps (sins) as a result of their Prarabadh (destiny) or when they come under the influence of Bikaars. Guru Sahib forgives their Paaps and if such Gursikhs don't reach their spiritual destiny, then they take another Janam and are born in the homes of Sant Gursikhs and eventually get Gyaan and are released from birth and death.Gyani: Gyan Gursikhs who have realized their self as well as Vaheguru, consider this world to be Mithiya (false). They reject the system of Karma and depend solely on Vaheguru jee's Naam. Since they don't associate with Haume, none of their Karma falls under the Karma system. Just as darkness does not go near sun, same way Bikaars and Paaps don't go near Gyani Gursikhs. They are free from Karma. They neither get rewarded for their Punns nor get punished for their mistakes. First of all they don't commit any mistake but if they unwittingly do commit a mistake as per this Gurbani Pankiti: ਜੇ ਬਾਹਰਹੁ ਭੁਲਿ ਚੁਕਿ ਬੋਲਦੇ ਭੀ ਖਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਭਾਣੇ ॥, they are not held accountable for it. Then the Gursikhs asked Guru Sahib as to what happens to the Punns that are done by a Gyani and the mistakes they make. Guru Sahib gave the most interesting and revealing answer. Guru Sahib said that since the Gyani rises above the effect of Karma, any Punns that they do during their life here on Earth, are given to the ones who serve them. In other words, the Gursikhs who serve the Gyani Gursikhs, get the rewards of the Punns done by Gyani Gursikhs. On the other hand the ones who slander Gyani Gursikhs, get the fruit of unwitting mistakes committed by the Gyani Gursikhs. Gyani stays Nirlep (aloof) from all effects and fruits of Paaps and Punns.As for the future of these 4 types of Gursikhs, the Sehkaam Karmi Sikhs are born in heavens and other high realms where they enjoy good life and then come back on Earth and are born in the homes of rich and prosperous people. They occasionally get chance to earn Gursikhi and eventually over many life forms, slowly rise to become Jeevan Mukat.The Nihkaam Karmi and Upaashna waale Gursikhs get to go to higher Khands and are reborn here in this world in the homes of Sant Gursikhs. They get many chances of doing Bhagti and they get to meet Sadh Sangat. Eventually they become Gyani Gursikhs and get everlasting blissful life in Sachkhand.Gyani Gursikhs of course get to go to Sachkhand after their exhausting their time here on Earth.The above thoughts are in accordance to Gurmat. In religions like Buddhism and many sects of Hinduism, the system of Karma is all powerful and totally independent. In Gurmat, the system of Karma is there but it is not run automatically (especially for Gursikhs) but Vaheguru jee is actively involved as a witness of the Karams of Jeevs and in giving the fruits of the good and bad Karma of Jeevs and Gursikhs. It seems natural that everyone cannot be given the same fruit of a single Karma.Let's take a worldly example to illustrate the point that all sinner are not treated equally by Vaheguru. If a repeat offender goes to the court of a worldly judge, the judge is likely to give him the maximum sentence possible and on the other hand if a first time offender goes to the same judge for the same offense as the repeat offender, then the judge is likely to go easy on the first time offender. Same way, a Gursikh who is indulged in Naam, Gurbani and Punns for the most part would get much less punishment for a rare sin as opposed to a Sikh of first stage who is still very much engaged in Maya.This Updesh of Guru Sahib should prompt us to strive to become Gyani Gursikhs and at least at the current time be at the level of Upaashna waale Gursikh, who are always eager to do Bhagti by engaging in Naam Abhyaas, Gurbani Kirtan and Paath. Guru Sahib Kirpa Karan. SAKHI ENDS Now, I think we have understood the superiority of having Guru Sahib as your Guru and Vaheguru as your Worshipee. People are born in houses of Sikh Families as a result of their good karams. If a non Sikh worships Vaheguru and keeps Rehat and reads bani with Prem, he will certainly be born in the house of a Sant or Brahmgyani abd get many chances to increase his kamaayi and get liberation. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 12 hours ago, paapiman said: Gurmat Bibek Singhs are associated with AKJ. Please provide more evidence from Puratan Sampradas (names were provided to you before). Bhul chuk maaf If the opinion was of some gursikh of puratan samprada, then would it be 100% correct? I don't think jathebandi plays a role in this. If a gursikh is rehitvaan and naam abhyaasi then we can certainly listen to him and accept his opinion as Satbachan. AKJ doesn't matter to me. It is the Kamaayi and abhyaas of these gursikhs that matters. They are Panj Granthi nitnemis and they have done sangat of many jot vigasis. I think they would have enough gyaan to answer this. Perhaps, Bhai Sahib you can also attach clippings of Mahapurush of other sampradas related to this topic and we can mutually decide Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: If a gursikh is rehitvaan and naam abhyaasi then we can certainly listen to him and accept his opinion as Satbachan. In-depth knowledge of Sikh history is also very important, when explaining certain Gurmat concepts. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 6 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Bhai Sahib you can also attach clippings of Mahapurush of other sampradas related to this topic and we can mutually decide Sant Baba Jarnail Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale used to say that a Hindu should become a devout Hindu, a Muslim should become a devout Muslim and a Sikh should become a devout Sikh. Why would Sant jee say this, if he believed that ONLY SIKHS can reach Sachkhand? He could have easily told Hindus and Muslims to become good HUMANS. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Perhaps, Bhai Sahib you can also attach clippings of Mahapurush of other sampradas related to this topic and we can mutually decide Sant Baba Nand Singh jee Kaleranwale also use to say that every SIKH, along with his family members will have to take Khande da Amrit. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 20, 2021 Report Share Posted May 20, 2021 6 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Perhaps, Bhai Sahib you can also attach clippings of Mahapurush of other sampradas related to this topic and we can mutually decide Sant Baba Nand Singh jee Kaleranwale also used to give "Darghai Parshad" (please see below) to Hindus and Muslims. Why would Sant jee do that? He had SPIRITUAL POWERS to convert non-Sikhs into Sikhs. Why didn't he just try converting non-Sikhs? The answer is SIMPLE. He was following GURMAT. Gurmat DOES NOT encourage us to convert people, because all people (Sikhs and non-Sikhs) have a chance to reach Sachkhand. Quote Complete 160 Malas daily of Ram (Nam); 40 Malas if Ram is recited four times on each bead A Mohammedan was advised to practice and recite the name of Allah on each bead as above. Unquote[1] [1] - Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj - Philosophy and Maryada - Dargahi Ticket (babanandsinghsahib.org) Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 On 5/19/2021 at 5:36 AM, Trimandeep Singh said: The same bani also says Simrit Sastra Punn Paap Beechaarde Tathe Saare Na Jaani [The Vedas discriminate between good and evil but don't know the essence of reality] Gurbani also praises the Vedas in Sri Japjee Sahib jee, by calling it the "Mukh Paath". Ref: Gurbani Arth Bhandar Pothi Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 26, 2021 Report Share Posted May 26, 2021 Yes, summarizing my opinion... All granths should be read and are worth doing vichar on. However, still they don't have the absolute truth and not perfect like Guru Granth sahib Ji because they contain some beliefs not in accordance to teachings of guru sahib. As Guru sahib is perfect, his teachings are also absolutely perfect and truth. Prophets of other religions like Jesus Christ, Muhammad Saab, Moses, Vishnu Ji and his avatars, all Devi devte are mahapurush. They contain many virtues and are in heavens enjoying various pleasures. However, they haven't conquered 5 mahabali and hence, no liberation. Also guru sahib says, "Iss Dehi ko simrey Dev" meaning even the devte yearn for the human joon. Hence, people who worship these prophets may reach heavens in Giaan Khand but cannot get liberated. Now talking about a non amritdhari who worships Vaheguru. If he does bhagti with full Prem and bairaag, then he may even reach Sharam Khand or not so sure, maybe Karam Khand. However, they still cannot be liberated as they haven't given their head to the True Guru. Most probably they will be born as humans again in the house of Sant Saadhu Sikhs. Third, if you take khande di pahaul, get naam from Guru Roopi Panj pyaare and don't keep Rehat and don't do Simran, then one should not expect getting a place in Sharan of Vaheguru. Also, one shouldnt do bhagti for Sachkhand. From Gursikhs, I have heard one should do bhagti only to get darshan of Vaheguru and not for only selfish purposes. ਨਾਮੁਅਮੋਲਕੁਰਤਨੁਹੈਪੂਰੇਸਤਿਗੁਰਪਾਸਿ॥ The Naam is a Priceless Jewel; it is with the Perfect True Guru. ਜਿਨਾਸਤਿਗੁਰੁਪੁਰਖੁਨਭੇਟਿਓਸੇਭਾਗਹੀਣਵਸਿਕਾਲ॥ Those who have not met the Primal Being, the True Guru, are most unfortunate, and are subject to death. ਓਇਫਿਰਿਫਿਰਿਜੋਨਿਭਵਾਈਅਹਿਵਿਚਿਵਿਸਟਾਕਰਿਵਿਕਰਾਲ॥ They wander in reincarnation over and over again, as the most disgusting maggots in manure. ************** This is my opinion in brief. And if you say that Satguru can also refer to any brahmgyani or non Sikh Mahapurush then please give any evidence from writings of Scholars and Teekakars. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 27, 2021 Report Share Posted May 27, 2021 9 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Yes, summarizing my opinion... All granths should be read and are worth doing vichar on. However, still they don't have the absolute truth and not perfect like Guru Granth sahib Ji because they contain some beliefs not in accordance to teachings of guru sahib. As Guru sahib is perfect, his teachings are also absolutely perfect and truth. Prophets of other religions like Jesus Christ, Muhammad Saab, Moses, Vishnu Ji and his avatars, all Devi devte are mahapurush. They contain many virtues and are in heavens enjoying various pleasures. However, they haven't conquered 5 mahabali and hence, no liberation. Also guru sahib says, "Iss Dehi ko simrey Dev" meaning even the devte yearn for the human joon. Hence, people who worship these prophets may reach heavens in Giaan Khand but cannot get liberated. Now talking about a non amritdhari who worships Vaheguru. If he does bhagti with full Prem and bairaag, then he may even reach Sharam Khand or not so sure, maybe Karam Khand. However, they still cannot be liberated as they haven't given their head to the True Guru. Most probably they will be born as humans again in the house of Sant Saadhu Sikhs. Third, if you take khande di pahaul, get naam from Guru Roopi Panj pyaare and don't keep Rehat and don't do Simran, then one should not expect getting a place in Sharan of Vaheguru. Also, one shouldnt do bhagti for Sachkhand. From Gursikhs, I have heard one should do bhagti only to get darshan of Vaheguru and not for only selfish purposes. ਨਾਮੁਅਮੋਲਕੁਰਤਨੁਹੈਪੂਰੇਸਤਿਗੁਰਪਾਸਿ॥ The Naam is a Priceless Jewel; it is with the Perfect True Guru. ਜਿਨਾਸਤਿਗੁਰੁਪੁਰਖੁਨਭੇਟਿਓਸੇਭਾਗਹੀਣਵਸਿਕਾਲ॥ Those who have not met the Primal Being, the True Guru, are most unfortunate, and are subject to death. ਓਇਫਿਰਿਫਿਰਿਜੋਨਿਭਵਾਈਅਹਿਵਿਚਿਵਿਸਟਾਕਰਿਵਿਕਰਾਲ॥ They wander in reincarnation over and over again, as the most disgusting maggots in manure. ************** This is my opinion in brief. And if you say that Satguru can also refer to any brahmgyani or non Sikh Mahapurush then please give any evidence from writings of Scholars and Teekakars. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh These two verses of Gurbani are more than enough to prove that even non-Sikhs can possibly attain Sachkhand. Daas has already posted these verses before. Below are their meanings. No words such as GURMUKH, GURSIKH, SIKH, KHALSA, GURBANI, BANI, etc, are used in the verses below. Ref: Gurbani Arth Bhandar Pothi Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 29, 2021 Report Share Posted May 29, 2021 On 5/27/2021 at 8:40 AM, paapiman said: These two verses of Gurbani are more than enough to prove that even non-Sikhs can possibly attain Sachkhand. Daas has already posted these verses before. Below are their meanings. No words such as GURMUKH, GURSIKH, SIKH, KHALSA, GURBANI, BANI, etc, are used in the verses below. Ref: Gurbani Arth Bhandar Pothi Bhul chuk maaf Here ਪਰਮ ਗਤ refers to highest honour not mukhti. Sometimes in Gurbani it also refers to highest spiritual level (avastha). Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post paapiman Posted May 29, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 29, 2021 5 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Here ਪਰਮ ਗਤ refers to highest honour not mukhti. Sometimes in Gurbani it also refers to highest spiritual level (avastha). Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh If you read the Arth which was posted, it clearly mentions KAIVAL Mukti, which is the highest form of Mukti. There are 4 other types of Muktis. Please read the Arth of KAIVAL Mukti from Mahan Kosh. ਕੈਵਲ੍ਯ ਸੰ. कैवल्य ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ- ਕੇਵਲ (ਏਕਤਾ) ਦਾ ਭਾਵ. ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਭੇਦਤਾ. ਪਰਮਗਤਿ. "ਕੈਵਲਦਾ ਉਚਰੇ ਸੁਭ ਬੈਨਾ." (ਨਾਪ੍ਰ) Bhul chuk maaf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 On 5/27/2021 at 8:40 AM, paapiman said: These two verses of Gurbani are more than enough to prove that even non-Sikhs can possibly attain Sachkhand. Daas has already posted these verses before. Below are their meanings. No words such as GURMUKH, GURSIKH, SIKH, KHALSA, GURBANI, BANI, etc, are used in the verses below. Ref: Gurbani Arth Bhandar Pothi Bhul chuk maaf In this pankti, it says one who meditates on the Naam of Hari (Akaal Purakh). Where do you get that Naam? From Satguru Ji by giving your head to him. Satguru Ji will only accept you as his disciple if you take his Amrit. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Where do you get that Naam? From Satguru Ji by giving your head to him. Satguru Ji will only accept you as his disciple if you take his Amrit. FOR A SIKH, the above is the maryada for obtaining NAAM. It does NOT apply to non-Sikhs. Daas has already mentioned before that non-Sikh Brahamgyanis can probably also give Naam Daan to their followers. Anyways, we should avoid going around in circles. Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.