Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 Just now, paapiman said: Well, your opinion could be wrong too in this matter. There is MORE THAN ENOUGH evidence in Gurbani and in Sikh history to suggest that non-Sikhs can also attain Sachkhand. bhul chuk maaf You do believe that Gurmat is superior to all mats. Do you believe one who follows any other mat can reach Sachkhand? If they can, what benefits do those people get who had Guru Nanak Dev Ji as their guru? Trimandeep Singh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Gurbani has its own grammar system so that readers can interpret meanings correctly. That Grammar system is ONE of the ways to interpret Gurbani, not the ONLY way. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Trimandeep Singh said: If they can, what benefits do those people get who had Guru Nanak Dev Ji as their guru? Sri Satguru jee (First Master) is Sri Waheguru jee himself. Gurbani has the MOST powerful Mantars in it. Basically, IMHO, Gurmat way is the FASTEST way to Sachkhand, but not the ONLY way. Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, paapiman said: Rehat is FOR SIKHS (people born in Sikh families), not for NON-SIKHS. How can times do you want me to repeat? Bhul chuk maaf I don't agree with this. Rehat is universal and not bound to time. One may not follow Rehat and cut his hair which is clearly a violation of Vaheguru's hukam. Veerji, I think we should end it here. I think we should stop discussions if others went to Sachkhand or not. We are following guru sahib and we are bound to follow his hukams. So let's focus on ourselves and end this debate. I don't think there's any end to this. Trimandeep Singh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, paapiman said: Sri Satguru jee (First Master) is Sri Waheguru jee himself. Gurbani has the MOST powerful Mantars in it. Basically, IMHO, Gurmat way is the FASTEST way to Sachkhand, but not the ONLY way. Bhul chuk maaf Bhai sahib, we have differences on these things too. So, we should stop here. Trimandeep Singh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 23 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: He will give him his darshan and make them his Sikhs rather than just giving them place in Sachkhand. He would give them amrit, naam and if they devote their lives to bhagti, they may get a place in Sachkhand. Some questions for you to think about. If Sri Satguru jee has NO DUASH in him, how can he refuse Naam daan to non-Sikhs? If Sri Satguru jee is ALMIGHTY, why cannot he give non-Sikhs a place in Sachkhand? How can we call Sri Satguru jee as JAGAT GURU, if they cannot even give Mukti to non-Sikhs? Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 I can clear my points on this. But do you agree with me on this? 24 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Veerji, I think we should end it here. I think we should stop discussions if others went to Sachkhand or not. We are following guru sahib and we are bound to follow his hukams. So let's focus on ourselves and end this debate. I don't think there's any end to this. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: I can clear my points on this. But do you agree with me on this? Trimandeep Singh If you want to end this discussion, it's your wish. You did ask good questions. Daas had a question for you. Please see the next post. Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 minute ago, paapiman said: If you want to end this discussion, it's your wish. You did ask good questions. Daas had a question for you. Please see the next post. Bhul chuk maaf Which post? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 hour ago, paapiman said: @Trimandeep Singh - Please answer the question above. Have you heard the name of one of the GREATEST Bhagats mentioned in Gurbani? Bhagat Raja Janak jee Maharaaj. He is NOT from Kaljug. Below is a verse of Bhai saab Bhai Gurdas jee. ਭਗਤੁ ਵਡਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਜਨਕੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਦਾਸੀ। Bhul chuk maaf @Trimandeep Singh - Do you have knowledge of Gurbani Grammar? Daas has zero knowledge of it. Daas wanted to ask you a question, with regards to the verse above? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 minute ago, paapiman said: @Trimandeep Singh - Do you have knowledge of Gurbani Grammar? Daas has zero knowledge of it. Daas wanted to ask you a question, with regards to the verse above? Bhul chuk maaf I too don't claim of having much knowledge of Gurbani Grammar. Nowadays, I am reading books of jeevan of Mahapurush rather than Gurbani Grammar related books. However, you can ask your question. If Daas knows something, will tell. Trimandeep Singh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 2 hours ago, paapiman said: What do you mean bro? Can you please elaborate? Thanks Bhul chuk maaf In passing Veer Ji, but there are a variety of Mukte, and different Loks, the One we are going for is Nirmal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said: In passing Veer Ji, but there are a variety of Mukte, and different Loks, the One we are going for is Nirmal. You heard that in Katha? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said: In passing Veer Ji, but there are a variety of Mukte, and different Loks, the One we are going for is Nirmal. There are different loks. In Sikhism the highest heaven of all is the realm of truth, Sachkhand. Sachkhand and Karam Khand are intangible and are eternal. The other 3 khands are tangible and can be destroyed. According to Hindu scriptures, Swarg is their destination. For Quran, Jannat and for Christianity, Heaven. All of these mats have different concepts. Gurmat says that all of these destinations do exist but are present in Gian Khand. People who go there only enjoy worldly pleasures which are false. In Sachkhand, Gurmukh sees the actual/pargat saroop of Vaheguru. For liberation, mats have different concepts. Eg in Buddhism, liberation is when one reaches state of Nirvana. According to Sikhism, Mukti is when one realizes the jot of Vaheguru in himself/ gets darshan of Pargat saroop of Vaheguru. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 16 hours ago, paapiman said: You heard that in Katha? Bhul chuk maaf I did. I'll add it to what I'm sifting for to validate. But yes. "Good vikings" go to valhalla if you catch my drift. The Buddhist goes to Samadhi or Nirvanna. The christians all go to hell. Jokes. That's their narrative. I mean heaven. We aren't shooting for these places. Heaven is the same as hell for us. We are still seperate there just in a "heavenly" state. Which is a lovely place to rest. But we're trying to go all the way Home and Wake up. That Loc and that State are unique. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness1 Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 On 5/10/2021 at 8:29 AM, Guest Noobhere said: Hey Okay i have a couple of questions. 1. I know how important amritvela is in sikhism. Now i personally take bath at 11.30 pm and start namm abhyas till around 1.30am or 2.00 am. Now does this count as amritvela or not. 2. I am not amritdhari, will i still be able to experience or reach certain stages in naam jaap. 3. The most important issue. Up untill now, i used to randomly do waheguru jaap for like 10 to 15 minutes maybe once or twice in month. And i was able to concentrate on sound of waheguru. I also would start to feel some sensations(like vibrations or current) in the scalp after 20 mins. Now i decided to do actual naam abhyas. Its been month or two as i mentioned i start at 11.30 pm to 2.00am( I am trying to increase time). I also do japji sahib path before simran. But i am shocked that i cant even concentrate for 5 seconds(thats right 5 continuous seconds). I just cant listen to waheguru the way i used to when i wasnt even trying to do abhyas. I dont know whats happening. I have been losing all motivation to do simran if i cant even concentrate. Any help will be really appreciated. Thanks"> WJKWJF. As the others have said on here, after 12.30am is the most powerful time to start naam simran. Do it for at least 30 mins, but 2.5 hrs is good. Listen to anhad naad, relax and let the samadhi take you, you will start going deep into it. Lessons you learn in your samadhi, apply them to your everyday practical life. The aim is go deep into the samadhi and stay grounded in Truth in the day. Don't lie, not even a white lie, speak the Truth, do good for yourself and others, have no anger or enmity. You will begin to experience the Truth of the world around you. Read gurbani and do bandgi, apply it to your life and you will walk down the path. If you fall, learn the lessons, make sure you don't make the mistake again and keep walking. The path is never ending, but it's one of love. Respect life aswell, live, enjoy and experience your life beyond the b/s of the five theives. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lioness1 Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 On 5/30/2021 at 11:09 AM, Trimandeep Singh said: Yes he loves all. But he loves those people more who japp naam and keep Regat. He doesn't give his darshan to fools like me. If he loves all, doesn't mean that he can give liberation to all for free. He is the most dayaalu but also just. Trimandeep Singh Why would He love people more who do naam jaap if He Is All. You're not seeing beyond the illusion. This entire khel is love, Truth is Love. He doesn't judge and we are noone to judge, everyone is on their own path and stage of learning as per karam. We are already free, He's already all. The way to live beyond the illusion to accept that we are all just Sinners, that we are Nothing, as the Gurus did, that we are the lowest of the low, apply gurbani and then we're being real. Otherwise we are in ego. The Gurus saw God in their enemies and served moghuls water after they were trying to kill the Gurus army beforehand.The judgemental fools who fight each other in gurdwarras over petty egotistical matters are noone to listen to or follow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Lioness1 said: Why would He love people more who do naam jaap if He Is All. You're not seeing beyond the illusion. This entire khel is love, Truth is Love. He doesn't judge and we are noone to judge, everyone is on their own path and stage of learning as per karam. We are already free, He's already all. The way to live beyond the illusion to accept that we are all just Sinners, that we are Nothing, as the Gurus did, that we are the lowest of the low, apply gurbani and then we're being real. Otherwise we are in ego. The Gurus saw God in their enemies and served moghuls water after they were trying to kill the Gurus army beforehand.The judgemental fools who fight each other in gurdwarras over petty egotistical matters are noone to listen to or follow. Thank you sister. Please just copy that and post it in every thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said: Thank you sister. Please just copy that and post it in every thread. Don't mess with a Lioness bro...lol. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Lioness1 said: Why would He love people more who do naam jaap if He Is All. You're not seeing beyond the illusion. This entire khel is love, Truth is Love. He doesn't judge and we are noone to judge, everyone is on their own path and stage of learning as per karam. We are already free, He's already all. The way to live beyond the illusion to accept that we are all just Sinners, that we are Nothing, as the Gurus did, that we are the lowest of the low, apply gurbani and then we're being real. Otherwise we are in ego. The Gurus saw God in their enemies and served moghuls water after they were trying to kill the Gurus army beforehand.The judgemental fools who fight each other in gurdwarras over petty egotistical matters are noone to listen to or follow. Your statements are absolutely absurd. "Why would He love people more who do naam jaap if He Is All." Are you saying he loves murderers and rapists and naam abhyaasis equally? He loves all, no doubt in that. But he always keeps laaj of his gursikhs and not a person who commits sins. He always punishes those who slander the Saints. He loves his saints more than anyone else. He loves all but also does justice by punishing us for our sins. ਸੰਤਨ ਦੁਖ ਪਾਏ ਤੇ ਦੁਖੀ He is painful, when He sees His saints in grief ਸੁਖ ਪਾਏ ਸਾਧੁਨ ਕੇ ਸੁਖੀ ॥ He is happy, when His saints are happy. "He doesn't judge and we are noone to judge" He has appointed Dharam Rai to JUDGE us on the basis of our Man Bach Karam (Thoughts, Sayings and Deeds). If he doesn't judge anyone, then how will he punish someone for sinning? However, if you mean his love isn't affected because of religion, caste etc then I am WITH you on this. And yes, WE are noone to judge. 1 hour ago, Lioness1 said: We are already free Seriously? We are in the Bandhan of Lakh Chaurasi and Maaya. Only those Bhagti waala Mahapurush are free of Maaya. ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਬੰਧਨ ਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਾ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਗਿਆਨੀ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ) ਬੰਧਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਆਜ਼ਾਦ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ, The God-conscious being is free from entanglements. "The judgemental fools who fight each other in gurdwarras over petty egotistical matters are noone to listen to or follow." I don't think it is wrong to be judgemental as long as we are judging in the light of Gurbani. If we don't judge practices of others, then infiltration of Anti Gurmat practices in Khalsa Panth would be really easy. We should not judge on the basis of irrelevant things but also keep a check in light of Gurmat. Eg judging someone's avastha on the basis of physical/outer Rehat. And fights are obviously not a solution. Healthy Debates with quoting points from Gurbani is needed. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 31, 2021 Report Share Posted May 31, 2021 @paapiman Today. I just read this beautiful pankti and it has solved all my doubts regarding the topic of who is giver of naam and liberation. ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਕਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ The True Guru is the Giver of the Lord's Name. There is no other giver at all. ਮਨਮੁਖ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥ The self-willed manmukhs practice devotional rituals without the True Guru, but without the True Guru, there is no devotion. I think now you can believe that even Pooran Brahmgyanis can't give naam to anyone because pankti has cleared, only Satguru which is Guru Nanak Dev Ji can give you naam. And Satguru is only one ਇਕਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਕੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਇਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ There is One Bani; there is One Guru; there is one Shabad to contemplate. And without naam, no-one can get Mukti ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜੀਵਿਆ ਜਾਇ ॥ Without the Naam, I cannot live. ਨਾਮਹੀਨ ਕਾਲਖ ਮੁਖਿ ਮਾਇਆ ॥ Those who lack the Naam have their faces rubbed in the dirt of Maya. ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁ ਜੀਵਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ Without the Naam, cursed, cursed are their lives. ||3|| ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਜਮੁ ਮਾਰਸੀ ਅੰਤਿ ਗਇਆ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥੧॥ O Nanak, without the Name, the Messenger of Death punishes them; in the end, they depart regretting and repenting. ||1|| I think now we can conclude that for liberation, you need naam which is only with the Satguru, not anyone else. Hence, anyone has to seek the sanctuary of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji to receive naam and do bhagti and finally reach eternal Sachkhand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 13 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਕਾ ਹੋਰੁ ਦਾਤਾ ਕੋਈ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ The True Guru is the Giver of the Lord's Name. There is no other giver at all. ਮਨਮੁਖ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਿਣੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ਰਾਮ ॥ The self-willed manmukhs practice devotional rituals without the True Guru, but without the True Guru, there is no devotion. I think now you can believe that even Pooran Brahmgyanis can't give naam to anyone because pankti has cleared, only Satguru which is Guru Nanak Dev Ji can give you naam. Please read the second arth of the word SATGURU(From Mahan Kosh): ਸੰ. सद्गुरू ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ- ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਵ। ੨. ਉੱਤਮ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਆਚਾਰਯ. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, paapiman said: ਉੱਤਮ ਉਪਦੇਸ਼ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਾ ਆਚਾਰਯ. If we take every pankti of Guru Granth Sahib literally, then there be only misinterpretations. We need to interpret meanings of panktis on the basis of whole of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. And Daas has already quoted the pankti 13 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: ਇਕਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਕੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਇਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ There is One Bani; there is One Guru; there is one Shabad to contemplate This is clear that there is only one Satguru ,that is, Satguru Nanak Dev Ji. If we take literal meaning of 'Guru' in all panktis of Guru Granth Sahib, then the basic foundation of Gurmat principles would cease to exist. Don't take everything in literal sense, but in light of teachings of Guru sahib. Trimandeep Singh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 46 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: This is clear that there is only one Satguru ,that is, Satguru Nanak Dev Ji. When the word SATGURU is interpreted as Sri Waheguru jee, THEN yes, it only refers to Sri Satguru jee (First Master). Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted June 1, 2021 Report Share Posted June 1, 2021 14 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said: I think now you can believe that even Pooran Brahmgyanis can't give naam to anyone because pankti has cleared, only Satguru which is Guru Nanak Dev Ji can give you naam. Gurparsaad, Daas has already posted the verses which PROVE that Brahamgyanis can give Naam Daan. Why don't you discuss those verses in details, instead of coming up with new verses? Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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