Hirsutism facial hair on women

[Iamgupt]

Are there any sampradas or jathe or sants that have a understanding approach to amritdhari bibia who don't feel they should have to keep a beard if they have medical conditions?

 

Sometimes treating the problem medically does not stop a huge amount of kes on face (I mean similar to a teenage boy). Are there any groups that have an allowance for amritdhari bibia to remove this if they have serious medical issues and it is a hugely excessive amount of hair (mini beard)?

[GurjantGnostic]

13 hours ago, Iamgupt said:

Are there any sampradas or jathe or sants that have a understanding approach to amritdhari bibia who don't feel they should have to keep a beard if they have medical conditions?

 

Sometimes treating the problem medically does not stop a huge amount of kes on face (I mean similar to a teenage boy). Are there any groups that have an allowance for amritdhari bibia to remove this if they have serious medical issues and it is a hugely excessive amount of hair (mini beard)?

It's no small task to accept Hukam. 

[Trimandeep Singh]

18 hours ago, Iamgupt said:

Are there any sampradas or jathe or sants that have a understanding approach to amritdhari bibia who don't feel they should have to keep a beard if they have medical conditions?

 

Sometimes treating the problem medically does not stop a huge amount of kes on face (I mean similar to a teenage boy). Are there any groups that have an allowance for amritdhari bibia to remove this if they have serious medical issues and it is a hugely excessive amount of hair (mini beard)?

Bhenji, facial hairs and beard hairs are giving you medical problems or are you asking the allowance for treatment of facial hairs through medical technology?

First thing, if you remain as it is and don't do any chherh chaarh with your body, you will remain healthy. A major reason for today's health problems to humans is consumption of processed stuff filled with all kinds of gandh. Today, people apply so many artificials to their skin like makeup which harms their skin. 

However, Guru Sahib has ordered Khalsa to keep dietary bibek and refrain from applying all kinds of decorating stuff on our bodies (makeup, jewellery etc).

"Saabat Soorat Rab Di Panneh Beyimaan"

If you have a mini beard, then instead of fearing the opinions and comments of this kalyugi duniya, take it as a challenge. If you successfully complete it, Guru Gobind Singh Ji will give you immeasurable amount of love! Just imagine Guru Sahib saying,

"ਇਹ ਮੇਰੀ ਸੱਚੀ ਧੀ ਆ" (She is my real daughter) 

You can also watch interviews and lectures of Bibi Harnaam Kaur who has full beard to know her perspective. (Don't look at her makeup and modelling stuff! These are Manmat).

Just accept this as Guru Sahib's hukam. This is maybe a result of your previous life karams. If you cut/remove your hairs then surely you can't get liberation as you violated hukam and tried to escape that punishment. If you will be born again, you will again get the same punishment or maybe more severe than that. But if you adopt the attitude of "Tera Kiya Meetha Laage", you will be honored in the court of Dharam Rai.

ਮਨਕਰਹਲਾਮੇਰੇਸਾਜਨਾਹਰਿਖਰਚੁਲੀਆਪਤਿਪਾਇ॥
O camel-like mind, my good friend, take the supplies of the Lord's Name, and obtain honor.

ਹਰਿਦਰਗਹਪੈਨਾਇਆਹਰਿਆਪਿਲਇਆਗਲਿਲਾਇ॥੯॥
In the Court of the Lord, you shall be robed with honor, and the Lord Himself shall embrace you. ||9||

ਜਿਸੁਪਿਆਰੇਸਿਉਨੇਹੁਤਿਸੁਆਗੈਮਰਿਚਲੀਐ॥
Die before the one whom you love;

ਧ੍ਰਿਗੁਜੀਵਣੁਸੰਸਾਰਿਤਾਕੈਪਾਛੈਜੀਵਣਾ॥੨॥
Cursed is one's life if one lives for this transient world ||2||

 

Do Ardaas and beg to Guru Sahib to give you the strength to fight this world and do Kamaayi of Sikhi.

Guru Sahib Kirpa Karan 

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[Iamgupt]

Sorry but that is an insane mindset. You don't know that that is what guru Gobind Singh Jee wants.

 

Back to my original question are there any other groups or sants etc that have a common sense approach to this?

[Trimandeep Singh]

Here is what guru sahib says Bhenji 

ਮੁੰਧੇਤੂਚਲੁਗੁਰਕੈਭਾਇ॥
O woman, you must walk in harmony with the Guru's Will.

ਚੰਦਨੁਮੋਲਿਅਣਾਇਆਕੁੰਗੂਮਾਂਗਸੰਧੂਰੁ॥
The bride may buy sandalwood oil and perfumes, and apply them in great quantities to her hair;
ਚੋਆਚੰਦਨੁਬਹੁਘਣਾਪਾਨਾਨਾਲਿਕਪੂਰੁ॥
she may sweeten her breath with betel leaf and camphor,
ਜੇਧਨਕੰਤਿਨਭਾਵਈਤਸਭਿਅਡੰਬਰਕੂੜੁ॥੪॥
but if this bride is not pleasing to her Husband Lord, then all these trappings are false. ||4||
ਸਭਿਰਸਭੋਗਣਬਾਦਿਹਹਿਸਭਿਸੀਗਾਰਵਿਕਾਰ॥
Her enjoyment of all pleasures is futile, and all her decorations are corrupt.

ਲਖਸੀਗਾਰਬਣਾਇਆਕਾਰਜਿਨਾਹੀਕੇਤੁ॥
She may wear thousands of ornaments, but they are of no use at all.
ਜਿਤੁਦਿਨਿਦੇਹਬਿਨਸਸੀਤਿਤੁਵੇਲੈਕਹਸਨਿਪ੍ਰੇਤੁ॥
On that day when the body perishes-at that time, she becomes a ghost.

If one says, that it is important because of self confident issues, then guru sahib says 
ਜਬ ਲਗ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਰਹੇ ਨਿਆਰਾ॥
ਤਬ ਲਗ ਤੇਜ ਦੀਓ ਮੈਂ ਸਾਰਾ॥
ਜਬ ਇਹ ਗਹੈ ਬਿਪਰਨ ਕੀ ਰੀਤਿ॥
ਮੈ ਨ ਕਰਉਂ ਇਨ ਕੀ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ॥
Reminding us not to adopt ways of this world.

You will look the most beautiful in this world and the world will look at you. This is guaranteed by Guru Sahib,
ਵਾਹੁਵਾਹੁਕਰਹਿਸੇਈਜਨਸੋਹਣੇਤਿਨ੍ਹਕਉਪਰਜਾਪੂਜਣਆਈ॥
Most beautiful are those persons who chant Waaho! Waaho! ; people come to venerate them.

If you follow hukam,
ਗੁਰਕੈਭਾਣੈਜੋਚਲੈਦੁਖੁਨਪਾਵੈਕੋਇ॥੩॥
 One who walks in harmony with the Guru's Will shall not suffer in pain. ||3||
ਗੁਰਕੈਭਾਣੈਜੋਚਲੈਤਾਂਜੀਵਣਪਦਵੀਪਾਹਿ॥
One who walks in harmony with the Guru's Will, obtains the supreme status of life.
ਸਤਿਗੁਰਕੈਭਾਣੈਜੋਚਲੈਹਰਿਸੇਤੀਰਲਿਆ॥
One who walks in harmony with the Will of the True Guru, is blended with the Lord.

Bhenji as a male, I may not understand your situation. But this is what Gurbani says about what you are talking about.

May Guru Sahib give you strength 

Bhul chuk maaf 
Trimandeep Singh 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, Iamgupt said:

Sorry but that is an insane mindset. You don't know that that is what guru Gobind Singh Jee wants.

 

Back to my original question are there any other groups or sants etc that have a common sense approach to this?

If you want to use your own mind go ahead. Get laser and be part of any Jatha you want.

Finding someone else to be your echo chamber to condone committing a Kurehit doesn't change anything.

If you choose to do whatever to your Kesh own it.

But Veer Ji was right about knowing the Guru's thoughts on keeping Kesh. It's one of your Panj Kakar. Sorry Bhenji.

A real Gursikh husband would love your Kesh and be truly impressed with you keeping it.

Be careful with common sense. It's Kalyug. 

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, Iamgupt said:

Sorry but that is an insane mindset. You don't know that that is what guru Gobind Singh Jee wants.

 

Back to my original question are there any other groups or sants etc that have a common sense approach to this?

Another way to put it...

You don't want to change Sikhi, or associate with people that change Sikhi, it's better you know and support what Sikhi is and just admit this is one place you're falling short. You're better off in Sangat that say it's Kurehit, and just being a papi like everyone else that is also falling short of the Guru's example. 

In the right Sangat the mini beard would turn heads were those heads not so disciplined as not to turn. The Bhenji with the Dhari gets the cred. 

[Trimandeep Singh]

48 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

 The Bhenji with the Dhari gets the cred. 

Very true Bhai sahib 

[paapiman]

23 hours ago, Iamgupt said:

Are there any sampradas or jathe or sants that have a understanding approach to amritdhari bibia who don't feel they should have to keep a beard if they have medical conditions?

 

Sometimes treating the problem medically does not stop a huge amount of kes on face (I mean similar to a teenage boy). Are there any groups that have an allowance for amritdhari bibia to remove this if they have serious medical issues and it is a hugely excessive amount of hair (mini beard)?

wjkk wjkf

Have you discussed this issue with a Gurmukh Mahapurakh?

In general, medical conditions should be treated by doctors. If you have a broken arm, you will go to a hospital to get it fixed. You won't go to Panj Pyare or a Gurudwara and ask them what should I do.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

A real Gursikh husband would love your Kesh and be truly impressed with you keeping it.

Daas understand your point, but in general, a lady is NOT suppose to have a beard/moustache. 

Beards and Moustaches are physical signs of a MAN.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[GurjantGnostic]

6 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Daas understand your point, but in general, a lady is NOT suppose to have a beard/moustache. 

Beards and Moustaches are physical signs of a MAN.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

So society tells us. But if that was true all the Bhenjis wouldn't be conflicted about it. We've just been taught to idealize prebuscency. 

Apparently it varies naturally. 

[paapiman]

9 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

So society tells us

So you are telling me, that out Satgurus did not agree with the FACT that beards and moustaches are signs of a MAN?

Even, Sant Baba Jarnail Singh jee Khlasa Bhindranwale mentioned in his katha that those Sikh males who don't want a beard should do Ardas that they should become ladies.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

36 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Daas understand your point, but in general, a lady is NOT suppose to have a beard/moustache. 

Beards and Moustaches are physical signs of a MAN.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Bhai sahib, it's just a consequence of large hair growth, more than normal women. Just like handicaps or people born in poor households, these hair growth problem is a result of bad karams that the bibi will be made a fun of by this kalyugi duniya.

The bibi needs to accept this bhaana. Some people are born with unusual body parts. So, they are also not supposed to have these. But they need to accept this.

But, how even a question can be raised? When Guru Sahib has clearly said dishonouring the hair is a bajjar qurehit then no instances and situations need to be mentioned.

Hairs can't be removed/cut, simple.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[Soulfinder]

@Iamguptbhen ji its a very controversal topic that is being touched. Try to do ardas and take a Hukamana from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj

[Trimandeep Singh]

Bhenji, can you please clear that you want hair removal because of some medical problems (surgery, skin medicines etc) or you fear you looking odd amongst many? 

If there's any medical problem, then I don't think it would make you a qurehtia. But doing a sehaj Paath for maafi will be recommended.

If it's the second case (fear to face people) then my previous post has answered your question.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[paapiman]

36 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

The bibi needs to accept this bhaana. Some people are born with unusual body parts. So, they are also not supposed to have these. But they need to accept this.

Bhai saab, there are possible medical solutions for children born with medical problems. Did you go to a college/university?

Unusual body parts might also be fixed by advanced medical science.

So you are telling me that if your child was born with an illness (which was not deadly), but there were medical solutions available to that problem, you would not try those medical options? Will you just accept the will of Sri Waheguru jee in this case?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

Bhai Sahib, if that disease acts as a hindrance in bhagti then I don't think using medical technology to cure the disease or whatever will be against guru Sahib's hukam. We need to understand the play of Karam system under hukam of Vaheguru Ji.

Some babies can be born with unusual body parts as a result of less care taken by mother or any other injury to mother or it may happen even though everything went right. 

In the first case, the injury was a result of 'sir mathe' karams and since the Karam has been exhausted, the child can be treated. However the mother needs to accept this as a will of God. In second case, the unusual parts of baby was a result of 'sir mathe' karams of this life and the Karam has been exhausted because he has been born with it. The treatment of child is a reaction to the karam.

In the case of bibi, large facial hair growth is result of previous karam and her reaction to this should be acceptance and not doing 'chherh chharh' with body, because then it would be disrespect to Vaheguru Ji that your creation is not perfect.

"Poore ka kiya sab kichh poora Ghatt Vadh kichh nahai"

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[Iamgupt]

I haven't actually said that I'm a Bibi

 

 

it is not natural, it's that simple. I think most panth today has not understood the real essence of kes rehat hence have these ridiculous ideas that a Bibi keeping a beard is chardikala.

 

 

 

[Trimandeep Singh]

What? So you are saying cutting/removing hair from any part of your body is not allowed to any Sikh except those who have more facial growth than normal?

Are you serious? And yes, a bibi who doesn't remove facial hairs is very chardikala bibi because she actually cares about Khushi of Guru Sahib and not kalyugis.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

And yes, a bibi who doesn't remove facial hairs is very chardikala bibi

You cannot say that for sure. She might be or might not be. What if, she is affected by Vikars/Doshs, etc? For example, what if she is full of Jealously or Hatred or Pride? In that case, how can she be in Chardi-Kala?

Sikhi is NOT JUST about the 5 K's. Inner Rehat is EXTREMELY important.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Bhai Sahib, if that disease acts as a hindrance in bhagti then I don't think using medical technology to cure the disease or whatever will be against guru Sahib's hukam

What happens, if that disease is a hindrance to your job/Krit Kamaiye? People need money to survive in this world too.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Kaur10]

@Iamgupt I am assuming you are a basic level Amritdhari sikh (apologies as i have seen gursikh who are either just got Amrit or not practicing Sikhism) and others who have responded to your question belongs to higher Sikhism spiritual state. I don't think any Amritdhari sanstha or group would offer you any allowance. The other groups like radha swami would be fine to accept you but i don't think amritdhari bibi would like to join them. 

  In terms of medical condition,  i couldn't think of any medicine or treatment which could help you without doing kesh katal kurehat. Is this bibi young teenager? Has she contacted doctor for PCOS poly cystic ovary disease ? Is she having any other hormonal issue?  If yes,  then it could be managed and treatment plus her body response could possibly  result in less hair growth in future. 

There is one cream available in uk vaniqa. Vaniqa contains the active ingredient eflornithine. Eflornithine works within the hair follicle and helps to block production of the hair shaft. This helps to reduce the rate of hair growth. In trials it has shown a significant improvement in the unwanted facial hair of 70% of women. There are more cosmetic creams available which would deprive the hair growth by restricting nutrients. All this would be considered KUREHET.

@Trimandeep Singh has answered it very correctly based on Sikhism.  

I am personally doing this kurehat, BUT I am saihajdhari sikh.  I am preparing myself for spiritual awakening and trying to read/ learn Gurbani and sikh history. 

When I would be ready for Amrit, then it would be full stop to this kurehat. This is the only kurehet I do,  i think.  

 

[GurjantGnostic]

On 5/25/2021 at 11:58 AM, paapiman said:

What happens, if that disease is a hindrance to your job/Krit Kamaiye? People need money to survive in this world too.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

True in a way bro. But one could argue all the Kakars represent a potential loss of income, we have to rely on hard work and Guru's Kirpa for what underlies our Maya. 

Kalyug uses many forms of situational ethics to get us to concede bits of our integrity for Maya. 

We must stay Nirmal to receive the continued Kirpa of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharajah, and pick our work and set our expectations and priorities appropriately. 

It's okay if Bhenji is not at that place where she can handle that task. But the Rehit remains. 

I'm no better. Having not taken Amrit yet, when my company rolled out an aggressive anti weapon campaign rather than try and stand up and argue my Shastar are Kakar I hide them in my bag on the clock. When I take Amrit I will begin carrying a new Kirpan openly and stand up for our rights, but I won't be looking for is a Jatha to tell me neglecting to carry Shastar on my person at all times is Rehit, or laugh at Rehit with my little manmind. 

If a legitimate medical issue exists and is treated and the Kesh changes so be it. 

But having more hair than your Ahankar likes is not a medical condition, it's part of the point. The Ahankar is the Rog not the Kesh. 

[GurjantGnostic]

On 5/25/2021 at 10:48 AM, Iamgupt said:

is not natural, it's that simple

Not natural or doesn't match up to the unnatural beauty ideals expressed by the anglophiled adharami media that idealizes prebuscency and promotes Kaam?

Not natural? Somebody did it to her in a lab, was she abducted by aliens and given a Dhari?

[GurjantGnostic]

The system of Mona, Sahajdhari, Keshdhari, Amritdhari is no mistake. It's perfect. 

All are part of the Sikh Paanth. 

To be part of the Khalsa Paanth is Nirmal, and we come and go from it based on our Karam, Rehit and Vaheguru's Kirpa.