Mahapurukhs can be wrong.

[Arsh1469]

I have heard lots of people on this form say this is true because this mahpurkh said so but lots of times different mahapurukhs from different Sampardamas contradict each other. I personally believe all mahapurukhs are human and are not always correct. Also how do we know someone is a mahapurukh?

Edit: Not trying to say mahapurukhs are bad.

[mahanpaapi]

8 hours ago, Arsh1469 said:

I have heard lots of people on this form say this is true because this mahpurkh said so but lots of times different mahapurukhs from different Sampardamas contradict each other. I personally believe all mahapurukhs are human and are not always correct. Also how do we know someone is a mahapurukh?

Edit: Not trying to say mahapurukhs are bad.

[sevak]

First name is Baba Nand Singh Ji

ਬਾਬਾ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਸੁਨ ਦੇ ਹੀ , ਮੁਨ ਬੈਰਾਗ ਚ ਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ 
ਹੁਥ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਜੁੜ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹੁਣ 
ਸਿਰ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਹੈ ਝੁਖ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ 
 

ਸਬਤੋ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਨੰਬਰ ਤੇ ਧਨ ਧਨ ਬਾਬਾ ਨੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਕਮਾਲ ਹੀ ਕਮਾਲ ਹੈ ਜੀ 

ਧਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ

ਧਨ ਸੌ ਸਾਖੀ 

[sevak]

15 hours ago, Arsh1469 said:

 I personally believe all mahapurukhs are human and are not always correct. Also how do we know someone is a mahapurukh?

 

22 ji, 
1) Mahapurakh jeh koye mil jaavey, then catch His feet and roll on his feet. Forget about right or wrong. If Mahapurakh says outside is night, then it is night and if He says outside is day, is day.

 

2) Your Q on how to know if someone is mahapurakh (swaal he ulta hai ji). You cannot know until He show Himself. You cannot meet / find Mahapurakh until He decide.

Can u meet Prime Minister on your own? Only if Prime Minister gives u permission, then u can meet.

[paapiman]

On 7/4/2021 at 11:22 PM, Arsh1469 said:

lots of times different mahapurukhs from different Sampardamas contradict each other.

Bro, can you please give some examples, where Mahapurakhs have contradicted each other on big issues?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[sarabatam]

Look into paratamik Satta and vavhairik Satta. As far paratamik Satta goes, mahapursh can never be wrong as they all connected to Ikongkar / supreme awareness atma paratma and but when it comes to vavhairik Satta they may differ in opinions vastly. It's all paradox but context helps.

 

 

[mahanpaapi]

1 hour ago, sarabatam said:

Look into paratamik Satta and vavhairik Satta. As far paratamik Satta goes, mahapursh can never be wrong as they all connected to Ikongkar / supreme awareness atma paratma and but when it comes to vavhairik Satta they may differ in opinions vastly. It's all paradox but context helps.

 

 

exactly;  at practical level,  their manifest actions or omissions may appear to be contradictory but in reality they are supplementary and complimentary, taking them together as a whole makes divine sense. same issue arises when some  Sikhs feels that Gurbani is contradictory at many places, while looking at Gurbani from purely intellectual viewpoint and in a divinely acontextual way.

[SunnySingh]

On 7/5/2021 at 4:22 AM, Arsh1469 said:

I have heard lots of people on this form say this is true because this mahpurkh said so but lots of times different mahapurukhs from different Sampardamas contradict each other. I personally believe all mahapurukhs are human and are not always correct. Also how do we know someone is a mahapurukh?

Edit: Not trying to say mahapurukhs are bad.

The best way to know how much anybody is near the Truth, is  as simple as seeing how much they stress in applying the teachings of Gurbani into our daily lives.

Each person may or may not have different points of views and differ from others, whosoever it maybe, because when it comes to Gurbani which is all that matters in the end for it is that what will be for our spiritual benefit only, then that is what we should take it.

No real mahapurukh comes to contradict Gurmat, rather to make us aware of that supreme Truth (SATNAM) which lies within all living beings as our sole source and support for our liberation forever from the mayavee creation by merging in that everlasting and changeless Truth for all past, present, and future times.

Time changes, conditions change, places change, all the creation changes, but, that One supreme Truth, Satnam, is changless, and is always the way for the salvation of the  jeev atma-soul.

He alone who awakens our awareness, and helps us realize that changless Truth within ourselves can be called as a mahapurukh.

[SunnySingh]

On 7/5/2021 at 7:50 PM, sevak said:

22 ji, 
1) Mahapurakh jeh koye mil jaavey, then catch His feet and roll on his feet. Forget about right or wrong. If Mahapurakh says outside is night, then it is night and if He says outside is day, is day.

 

2) Your Q on how to know if someone is mahapurakh (swaal he ulta hai ji). You cannot know until He show Himself. You cannot meet / find Mahapurakh until He decide.

Can u meet Prime Minister on your own? Only if Prime Minister gives u permission, then u can meet.

Very well said. 

  

[Trimandeep Singh]

On 7/5/2021 at 8:52 AM, Arsh1469 said:

I have heard lots of people on this form say this is true because this mahpurkh said so but lots of times different mahapurukhs from different Sampardamas contradict each other. I personally believe all mahapurukhs are human and are not always correct. Also how do we know someone is a mahapurukh?

Edit: Not trying to say mahapurukhs are bad.

In the past, some Mahapurakhs have done some mistakes but they were very minor and nothing compared to their abhiyaas and spiritual level so it gets neglected by Guru sahib.

Trimandeep Singh 

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

In the past, some Mahapurakhs have done some mistakes but they were very minor and nothing compared to their abhiyaas and spiritual level so it gets neglected by Guru sahib.

Trimandeep Singh 

Can you please provide examples?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

On 7/8/2021 at 12:22 PM, paapiman said:

Can you please provide examples?

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Brahmgyani Baba Banda Singh Bahadur changed the Fateh but was later punished my sangat. This is what I have heard. Not going into details. 

Trimandeep Singh 

[GurjantGnostic]

7 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Brahmgyani Baba Banda Singh Bahadur changed the Fateh but was later punished my sangat. This is what I have heard. Not going into details. 

Trimandeep Singh 

Fateh Darshan?

[Trimandeep Singh]

2 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Fateh Darshan?

Yess

[GurjantGnostic]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:07 AM, Trimandeep Singh said:

Yess

Veerji. Perhaps you know.

Was Fateh Darshan used in place of Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh or in response to it?

Also. How would you translate Fateh Darshan?

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Hanji. Perhaps you know.

Was Fateh Darshan used in place of Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh or in response to it?

Also. How would you translate Fateh Darshan?

Fateh Darshan literally means 'an audience with victory' (??)  fateh = Farsi word for victory: darshan = (it's hard to translate but I'll try) a visual audience?  Like we have darshan of maharaj when we go Gurdwara.

This hukamnana purportedly from Banda Singh Bahadhur is interesting in light of your question because at the top we see a Persian (Farsi) including the Degh-Tegh-Fateh motif, as well as a reference to Baba Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh jis. Then afterwards (after the Ik onkar) we have Fateh Darshan.  

[Arsh1469]

8 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Brahmgyani Baba Banda Singh Bahadur changed the Fateh but was later punished my sangat. This is what I have heard. Not going into details. 

Trimandeep Singh 

In Sant Jarnail Singh Ji's katha he compares Banda Singh to the Nirankari Guru.

[Arsh1469]

8 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Brahmgyani Baba Banda Singh Bahadur changed the Fateh but was later punished my sangat. This is what I have heard. Not going into details. 

Trimandeep Singh 

Here is katha of Sant Ji comparing him too Nirankari. Listen past 10 min https://gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/01_Puratan_Katha/Sant_Jarnail_Singh_(Bhindran_wale)/41_Questions_with_Sant_Jarnail_Singh_Ji_Bhindrawalae/Sant.Jarnail.Singh.(Bhindra.wale)--41.Questions.with.Sant.Jarnail.Singh.Ji.Bhindrawalae.Part.01.mp3

[AkalKiFauj]

On 7/5/2021 at 12:30 PM, mahanpaapi said:

This a different Nand Singh to the Nanaksar wale Mahapurkh. This Nand Singh was a part of the Panj Mukte (first people to be blessed with amrit after the Panj Pyare).

[Trimandeep Singh]

4 hours ago, AkalKiFauj said:

This a different Nand Singh to the Nanaksar wale Mahapurkh. This Nand Singh was a part of the Panj Mukte (first people to be blessed with amrit after the Panj Pyare).

Yeah I was also thinking this. But still I wouldn't have been surprised if it was Nanaksar waale Mahapurakh only.

[Trimandeep Singh]

14 hours ago, Arsh1469 said:

In Sant Jarnail Singh Ji's katha he compares Banda Singh to the Nirankari Guru.

Most probably, he would have said that like the Nirankari, Baba Banda Singh Ji too did some deeds like this but this doesn't mean that he remained like that till his last breath. And I request you to give him some respect, please! 

1. He was chosen by Dashmesh Pita to lead the panth.

2. After Khalsa Raj came, he didn't become a political leader or a king but went to the hills to do bhagti. He had absolutely no attachments.

3. If Baba ji would have done something like that, how can he give a shahaadat like that? You do know that his son's heart was put into his mouth. This torture was out of this world. If he was a patit/tankhaiya, how can he give a Mahaan shahaadat like this?!

Stop falling to social media propaganda.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[Arsh1469]

9 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Most probably, he would have said that like the Nirankari, Baba Banda Singh Ji too did some deeds like this but this doesn't mean that he remained like that till his last breath. And I request you to give him some respect, please! 

1. He was chosen by Dashmesh Pita to lead the panth.

2. After Khalsa Raj came, he didn't become a political leader or a king but went to the hills to do bhagti. He had absolutely no attachments.

3. If Baba ji would have done something like that, how can he give a shahaadat like that? You do know that his son's heart was put into his mouth. This torture was out of this world. If he was a patit/tankhaiya, how can he give a Mahaan shahaadat like this?!

Stop falling to social media propaganda.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

I wasn't disrespecting him or denying that he was a shaheed. I am not falling to propaganda. What I am trying to say and what Sant ji says is Banda Singh is not perfect. Banda Singh made people worship him.

 To address your points. 1 Yes but that doesn't mean he was unable to make mistakes. 2 Is there any evidence he did this? Did any Sant say this? 3 Just because he wasn't perfect doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to give shaheedi.

Here is some evidence of Banda Singh's flaws

In Gurbilas Patshahi 10 Bhai Koer Singh says he fell to his ego.

In Sketch of the Sikhs he is said to have changed the fateh. Make the Sikhs leave eating of flesh and create his own rehat. He also made Sikhs not wear blue.

In Mahan Kosh it is said he became arrogant and preached his own rehat.

Giani Gian Singh says Banda Singh tried to make himself a Guru.

Many Nihangs believe he created his own Sikh path.

Sant Jarnail Singh Ji says that Banda Singh was like a fake Nirankari Guru.

This next point has evidence both with and against it so draw your own conclusion based on the facts. Banda Singh killed innocent civilians.

There arw many more sources but these are the main ones.

 From all this evidence you can draw on to your own conclusion. But we know for a fact that Banda Singh(We don't even know if he took amrit) was a great conqueror. He did eventually fall to ego. He created his own path and proclaimed himself Guru. At the end it is said that he accepts the torture because he knew this is happening because of his actions. 

So IMHO Banda Singh is not a Sant/Mahapurukh. I feel a close comparison with him would be Muhammad who to was good at the start a great conqueror. He too fell to ego and made people worship him. Banda Singh didn't necessarily do the same but he did proclaim himslef Guru. Mohammed definitely killed innocents but for Banda Singh it is disputed. They too both created there on path. Mohammed created a path where he was supreme not God. Banda Singh created a path which split the Sikh for centuries and made himself supreme. I am unsure if Mohammad asks for forgiveness from the Lord for his actions but I know Banda Singh did. Banda Singh also made himself a shaheed to inspire future generations.

Forgive me for any mistakes.

[mahanpaapi]

15 hours ago, AkalKiFauj said:

This a different Nand Singh to the Nanaksar wale Mahapurkh. This Nand Singh was a part of the Panj Mukte (first people to be blessed with amrit after the Panj Pyare).

how about Attar Singh?

 

[paapiman]

20 hours ago, AkalKiFauj said:

This a different Nand Singh to the Nanaksar wale Mahapurkh. This Nand Singh was a part of the Panj Mukte (first people to be blessed with amrit after the Panj Pyare).

@Trimandeep Singh @mahanpaapi

Weren't the Panj Mukte the following Singhs?

 

• Bhai Deva Singh jee
• Bhai Ishar Singh jee
• Bhai Tehal Singh jee
• Bhai Raam Singh jee
• Bhai Fateh Singh jee

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

5 hours ago, mahanpaapi said:

how about Attar Singh?

 

There are multiple Saints by the name of "Attar Singh". The below ones are both, Gurmukh Brahamgyanis.

• Sant Baba Attar Singh jee Mastuanewale
• Sant Baba Attar Singh jee Rerusaabwale

 

Bhul chuk maaf