Dark Narnia Feedback Loop

[Guest Roop Dhillon]

22 hours ago, sarabatam said:

Lol yeah not upset at all.

Great

do Keep this open not just for me but all discussions on Punjabi Lit 

 

also do give feedback on the other stories i or anyone else posts here

 

I would really love it if we in the west could start our own punjabi literature for ourselves

 

 

[Guest ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

 

On 9/15/2021 at 10:17 PM, dalsingh101 said:

I

How do you successfully attach images or file to this? The symbol shows loading but rarely works and when it does no one can read the PDF or see the image

 

[GurjantGnostic]

19 hours ago, Guest ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

 

How do you successfully attach images or file to this? The symbol shows loading but rarely works and when it does no one can read the PDF or see the image

 

I'm not sure as a guest. It works great with a profile. Maybe your browser?

[dalsingh101]

On 9/16/2021 at 12:39 AM, Guest Roop Dhillon said:

Thanks for doing this. Yes my background seems the same as yours … my problem is I have been learning to write like the adult Punjabis and been studying how they do it for years such that I can’t tell what is easy and what is not 

Come on, you have to use you memory and imagination. Close you eyes, remember what it was like when you was teenager. How easy or difficult was it to read Panjabi? Why? Forget what you've learnt, and try and remember the stages you went through to learn it instead. What were the pitfalls? What did you see of other people who were trying to learn it as well, where did they struggle?  This stuff should inform how you write to an extent. 

 

Quote

 

certainly I am not saying I know more than you or anyone else though have been told by so called literary experts I am now allegedly way above anyone they have come across from the west but due to my western foibles not quite there yet with their best 

 

I do not doubt the emboldened bit for a second. And it's patently obvious that you know more than me to myself. What I'll do when I get a second is go through your second piece (the horror novella) and just highlight every word I have to look up in dictionary. That'll give you an idea. Me personally, right now, I think I'm slightly above GCSE level but not A Level level yet. I've got an A Level Panjabi book laying around, reading it, and it's focus on rural stuff is painful. 

 

Quote

to be honest I’d just be happy to be average 

You want to get that out of your head mate. You've gone beyond that now. I think these things are intrinsic. Just things in you that have to get out. Enjoy the journey.

Quote

 

anyhow it seems my punjabi sentences mostly suit westerners like me but I have been told allegedly their level is lower than mine let alone those from Punjab 

yet the other side of the coin is my punjabi is too unconventional for the average Indian reader 

so it’s all confusing . What is a fact is even the kids now raised in Punjab know less punjabi than our generation in the west so also need books for teeenagers to help them and I have decided to try and write for them and our youth here and it’s to get that balance I am asking for your help and yes your friend’s help will be really useful

 

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I think the use of sort of semi-english syntax in your works helps readers like me. It helps because I think I do a real time translation of what I read.   It would interesting to know what native readers make of it. How does it appear to them? From a cognitive perspective, what does your writing generate in their minds eye? Does the change in sentence syntax befuddle them? Or can some handle it? 

Plus get used to what you're feeling to an extent. You are a frontliner/pioneer in these things. That means you have no one to emulate. So you're on your own in that respect. But the paths you carve will (hopefully) be used by others for even greater leaps, and maybe not in our time? 

I'm not surprised that some of our generation knows Panjabi better than the new lot back home. I periodically work with young freshies and they do not have any sort of intellectual curiosity at all, outside of what can make them more cash. And Sidhu Moosewala fantasies.  lol

I fully agree that we need books for younguns that are stimulating and creative. I think our future depends on it to be honest. Reading the 'pendu navel gazing' (as you put it in the past) is torturous - I can't do it, no matter how much I try. That's probably why I like old purataan Sikhi rooted texts to bounce my head off.  More stimulating!

I think you've learnt so much, and that the temptation to throw everything in a work is very high for you. It's natural because this is also a way to preserve your learning, which can easily disappear without regular reinforcement. 

Now, my relationship with Panjabi is markedly different to when I was growing up. The older lot are dying off, or we lose contact with them.  Siblings and the younger generation beneath us only speak english. I don't have much of a spoken relationship with the language now, it's mostly based on reading.

You need to go down a few gears in my opinion.  With the work aimed at youngsters, reign in any impulse to throw in an excess amount of complex or unfamiliar vocab. Maybe two/three words on a page, and some pages without? That sort of ratio.  

 

Quote

I think I am annoying the admin as I’m not a member so wonder if future communication should be done directly via email??

Neo/Sarbatam (i.e the admin) is as cool as a kakhree. It might be a good idea for you to get an account here though.

Quote

 

 

would be interested to see what you think of Haul as that is aimed at young Punjab born adults to only A level and above in UK ??

 

I think I struggle at that level, mainly because my vocab isn't that strong and i have to constantly use the dictionary. 

 

Quote

i really do appreciate your help and time 

No problem. 

[dalsingh101]

On 9/17/2021 at 1:22 PM, Guest Roop Dhillon said:

I would really love it if we in the west could start our own punjabi literature for ourselves

It needs to be done, otherwise we're f**ked. 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

Attempt to insert the PDF file  of the story, with footnotes, so this is what it would look like in print..see what you think..

Nina Ate Ilti Jinn.pdf

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

15 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

It needs to be done, otherwise we're f**ked. 

Hi

this is actually an answer to all the points you have made. In short I really really appreciate your feedback as no one else ( born in the west) has ever shared my stuff apart from you on Sikhawareness or shown an interest giving the older so called famous Punjabi writers I now know the excuse to say the language will die with them or only come across to the UK in the form of a new wave of immigrants ( the ones UK born insultingly call Freshies) but they don't even think that will happen they think the new generation will all go to Canada and it is only the type you highlighted ( money orientated) workers who will come over. In short Punjabi in UK will die within 15 years. If this is so on a different question we need to understand what that means for the Sikh Religion. I don't think the threat is as severe there as it does not require the knowledge of one language anyway and can be learnt in English. I suspect that Western Sikhi will go its own way compared to the one in Punjab and may be a more honest and purer version. I also think those who can't speak punjabi will focus more on Sikhi as their roots, and the those who are not religious or able  to speak Punjabi will simply be absorbed into being English and will lose all roots.

I agree with your points and accept them. 

I do also think you are correct about the freshies, they have nothing between their ears and I have seen the same to be honest and cruel amongst the so called famous punjabi writers who are only interested in standing up amongst their peers and reading out stale poetry to get applause. There are no intellectuals. I decided long ago to start a separate movement for British Born Punjabis in this respect but I need to link up to similar minded people so that is a separate thread.

I understand what you say about simplifying Punjabi but I then get caught up amongst two schools of thought. Those who just use English nouns for words they know no one in the UK understands or those who want to look up the correct word in the dictionary. I have seen both schools of thought and they both have their merits. However I have seen the ones in the latter laugh down the former as bad and fake Punjabi.

To not get slagged off ( one intellectual senior phoned me and told me off for using English words) I have gone with writing the way I have so far. I see it as an exercise to improve the punjabi of the reader and when I was taught english I was also taught to have a dictionary at hand. So it is a matter of view.

I will reapproach the Nina project after I have done Haul, or I will give up and start writing in English 

I have now joined Sikhawareness as you can see and started another thread. Let's see if you are right and I get responses on that. That will tell me if its only you and me or others are interested. Re the words etc I have made a few comments on your thread about Panjabi Vocabulary.

 

I got the following message on whattsapp this morning from a lady who is a senior professor for Sikh Studies in a UK Uni..I quote..." Great, but for any university / collage to start a course the demand for it has to be evidenced. Sorry to say, take up of Panjabi is very poor. Without this I can't even start any process"

 

I responded : " No. I get it, I am beginning to think punjabi can only survive in private lessons or at local school level "

 

What i will say is listening to her I have realised that I may be wasting my time creating Punjabi literature for British Sikhs ( or others) as they will only read English and can not be bothered or are not interested in Punjabi fiction poetry or using the language other than swearing or dancing at weddings.

On top of that the Punjab born Punjabis are day by day losing their knowledge of Punjabi words and replacing it entirely with Hindi , Urdi and English.

 

Won't be long before no one can read the Guru Granth Sahib unless it is a translated version or taught through a mediary who may have their own agenda, because really we should all be able to read it for ourselves as was the original intention of the Gurus.

 

So lets see if the Thread I started about Punjabi Literature gets anyone apart from you responding. If not, I may have to abandon the UK kids as possible readers and in order to be read write the same Pindu stuff for those in India or learn their syntax or just start writing in English...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

I hear your positivity brother, but  really get the impression  you are a one man band...The ones from India don't get my style of writing or syntax and find my vocal too basic at times or too intellectual at the other extreme. Guess my fiction isn't about zameen mind life and how to make a quick buck and suppress your women.  They rather drink shrab or take drugs than read anything in their language. I get the impression from some of the points made by you that my vocab is too high for the western reader who do get my syntax. ( By the way in answer to your cognitive question I have long been told that my Anglized sentences make no sense to those in punjab and is why I am not taken seriously. My spelling is apparently reasonably  good but the syntax is laughable at best,  hard to understand at most). This and the fact many are not responding ( on my posts here and other places ) gives me the impression in reality no one in the west wants to learn Punjabi ( aside from you) especially to use it in practical terms. Which makes me think if I carry on writing I write for those in India ( in which case I too will have to write about the Pind etc) or I just stop and write normal English Literature for Gore..

Sorry feeling a bit depressed today, especially after Professor Opinderjeet Kaur's reponse from Wolves Uni. She says that Kids only interest in heritage is Religion which does not require Punjabi, Sikhism has a take up, as does Islam and Hinduism etc. So Sikh studies are thriving in English. Punjabi is not even asked for and at this rate the AQA would have closed the GCSE and A Level course as well if the Panjabi Board in the UK had not pressurised them. The take up stats for last year were the lowest in a decade.

 

So I think your words we are f****ed are already true.

 

Seriously thinking of writing in English . We need hard facts and stats from Sikeawareness members and others that they genuinely want to read Punjabi 

[dalsingh101]

4 hours ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

Hi

this is actually an answer to all the points you have made. In short I really really appreciate your feedback as no one else ( born in the west) has ever shared my stuff apart from you on Sikhawareness or shown an interest giving the older so called famous Punjabi writers I now know the excuse to say the language will die with them or only come across to the UK in the form of a new wave of immigrants ( the ones UK born insultingly call Freshies) but they don't even think that will happen they think the new generation will all go to Canada and it is only the type you highlighted ( money orientated) workers who will come over. In short Punjabi in UK will die within 15 years. If this is so on a different question we need to understand what that means for the Sikh Religion. I don't think the threat is as severe there as it does not require the knowledge of one language anyway and can be learnt in English. I suspect that Western Sikhi will go its own way compared to the one in Punjab and may be a more honest and purer version. I also think those who can't speak punjabi will focus more on Sikhi as their roots, and the those who are not religious or able  to speak Punjabi will simply be absorbed into being English and will lose all roots.

 

There's a lot to unpack there! lol

Look, when it comes to online, most people are like voyeurs, they read and see it, but don't comment. It's like the Baba vaapus aa gaya piece you wrote, plenty of hits on that forum, very little comments. So your stuff is being read. I'm not the only one doing it. Just for your knowledge I came across your early stuff when I finally made an earnest decision to finally nail my Panjabi (or Gurmukhi to be more accurate) and was looking for stuff the read to develop it. It helped. 

I don't think the language will die like suggested by some above. Freshies are unlikely to invigorate it here because they almost invariably look down on vilaytis, plus as mentioned, they are more money focused than on preserving/nurturing a literary movement. However, some of their kids might in future, and that's who your main audience will probably be in the west.       

I don't think Sikhi is in danger either, at least not from the language issue. We live in interesting times Roop. With everything going on, I can't help but notice the undercurrents of a real revival in interest in Sikhi and Sikh ithihaas (as opposed to colonial era 'Sikhism')    I see a strong yearning by some diasporans to link with their written heritage and learn Gurmukhi. Texts that were inaccessible in my youth are now openly available (say through scribd or SIkhbookclub), even many puratan texts have recently been translated and published i.e. Bhangu's Panth Prakash, Sainapati's Sri Gursobha. There are movements that are revisiting old classics like Suraj Prakash in the west. Even brothers who used to be on this forum have gone on to translate hitherto forgotten works, People like Kam Pardesi and Tirath Nirmala.  

With English based writings on Sikhi, I think we are in an early stage. Sure we can read plenty about colonial era influenced 'Sikhism' but intelligent works on Sikhi are few and far between. Why we are so far behind might be explainable by this (if you haven't read it already do it urgently - it's a must read):

  

 

Quote

do also think you are correct about the freshies, they have nothing between their ears and I have seen the same to be honest and cruel amongst the so called famous punjabi writers who are only interested in standing up amongst their peers and reading out stale poetry to get applause. There are no intellectuals. I decided long ago to start a separate movement for British Born Punjabis in this respect but I need to link up to similar minded people so that is a separate thread.

They are the products of their environment that doesn't value literacy unless it's a vehicle to employment and status. They have no intellectual curiosity. Regarding your point about all the disparaging stuff written about diasporan Sikhs in traditional Panjabi literature. Well, we could easily do the same - the amount of kartootaan I've seen from that quarter could easily be characterised, if someone wanted. But that would be a waste of time on tit for tat buckwaas. 

 

Quote

I understand what you say about simplifying Punjabi but I then get caught up amongst two schools of thought. Those who just use English nouns for words they know no one in the UK understands or those who want to look up the correct word in the dictionary. I have seen both schools of thought and they both have their merits. However I have seen the ones in the latter laugh down the former as bad and fake Punjabi.

To not get slagged off ( one intellectual senior phoned me and told me off for using English words) I have gone with writing the way I have so far. I see it as an exercise to improve the punjabi of the reader and when I was taught english I was also taught to have a dictionary at hand. So it is a matter of view.

To not get slagged off ( one intellectual senior phoned me and told me off for using English words) I have gone with writing the way I have so far. I see it as an exercise to improve the punjabi of the reader and when I was taught english I was also taught to have a dictionary at hand. So it is a matter of view.

I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to get at. I was just saying that to target a younger audience, and those who are relatively new to the language, you need to simplify your work. It's one thing to try and compete with the traditional writers from back home, it's another to write for a new, emerging market/demographic.

 I get your point about not dumbing it down too much, but also, a reader might not want to learn a whole barrage of new words in one go. Or constantly have to look up words in a dictionary. Then it become laborious for them. I'm like you, when I learnt reading I too had a dictionary at hand. We have to factopr in the differences between readers who may not be like this. Make sense?   

 

Quote

 

I will reapproach the Nina project after I have done Haul, or I will give up and start writing in English 

I have now joined Sikhawareness as you can see and started another thread. Let's see if you are right and I get responses on that. That will tell me if its only you and me or others are interested. Re the words etc I have made a few comments on your thread about Panjabi Vocabulary.

 

You've come too far to give up! Like I said, people are like voyeurs, don't think that a lack of comments means lack of interest. 

 

Quote

I got the following message on whattsapp this morning from a lady who is a senior professor for Sikh Studies in a UK Uni..I quote..." Great, but for any university / collage to start a course the demand for it has to be evidenced. Sorry to say, take up of Panjabi is very poor. Without this I can't even start any process"

I responded : " No. I get it, I am beginning to think punjabi can only survive in private lessons or at local school level "

 

You're absolutely right with your analysis in my opinion. In school, I was in a class of 3 (including me!) learning GCSE Panjabi, whilst Urdu classes were jam packed. Parents here don't prioritise it, and it's mainly Gurdwaras that actually teach it.  Going back to your first paragraph: Yes, a lot of people are going to get assimilated here. But some will make effort to try and preserve it, maybe encourage their kids to learn it, because their own parents never encouraged them to learn. That's when your stuff can a make a big difference. 

Quote

 

What i will say is listening to her I have realised that I may be wasting my time creating Punjabi literature for British Sikhs ( or others) as they will only read English and can not be bothered or are not interested in Punjabi fiction poetry or using the language other than swearing or dancing at weddings.

On top of that the Punjab born Punjabis are day by day losing their knowledge of Punjabi words and replacing it entirely with Hindi , Urdi and English.

Won't be long before no one can read the Guru Granth Sahib unless it is a translated version or taught through a mediary who may have their own agenda, because really we should all be able to read it for ourselves as was the original intention of the Gurus.

 

I think often when a thing is being lost, a movement springs up to counteract this. I don't seethe issue of loan words as a big one, because we've always had this in Panjab. I've always thought one of things a good writer does is resurrect some old interesting words and bring them back into use, maybe that will happen.  We've got quality dictionaries available now too. 

And like I alluded to earlier. I'm seeing things very different to you, I see a growing yearning for knowledge and even a slow shift in some elements in the diaspora towards a more intellectual approach to studying their Sikh heritage.  From my perspective we have young people who are intelligent enough to read Gurbani and use available resources to get a good understanding. 

 

 

Quote

So lets see if the Thread I started about Punjabi Literature gets anyone apart from you responding. If not, I may have to abandon the UK kids as possible readers and in order to be read write the same Pindu stuff for those in India or learn their syntax or just start writing in English...

Don't be so defeatist. When you're a pioneer (i.e. ahead of time), people might only really appreciate your stuff long after you've written it. It's a legacy.   

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

5 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

There's a lot to unpack there! lol

Look, when it comes to online, most people are like voyeurs, they read and see it, but don't comment. It's like the Baba vaapus aa gaya piece you wrote, plenty of hits on that forum, very little comments. So your stuff is being read. I'm not the only one doing it. Just for your knowledge I came across your early stuff when I finally made an earnest decision to finally nail my Panjabi (or Gurmukhi to be more accurate) and was looking for stuff the read to develop it. It helped. 

I don't think the language will die like suggested by some above. Freshies are unlikely to invigorate it here because they almost invariably look down on vilaytis, plus as mentioned, they are more money focused than on preserving/nurturing a literary movement. However, some of their kids might in future, and that's who your main audience will probably be in the west.       

I don't think Sikhi is in danger either, at least not from the language issue. We live in interesting times Roop. With everything going on, I can't help but notice the undercurrents of a real revival in interest in Sikhi and Sikh ithihaas (as opposed to colonial era 'Sikhism')    I see a strong yearning by some diasporans to link with their written heritage and learn Gurmukhi. Texts that were inaccessible in my youth are now openly available (say through scribd or SIkhbookclub), even many puratan texts have recently been translated and published i.e. Bhangu's Panth Prakash, Sainapati's Sri Gursobha. There are movements that are revisiting old classics like Suraj Prakash in the west. Even brothers who used to be on this forum have gone on to translate hitherto forgotten works, People like Kam Pardesi and Tirath Nirmala.  

With English based writings on Sikhi, I think we are in an early stage. Sure we can read plenty about colonial era influenced 'Sikhism' but intelligent works on Sikhi are few and far between. Why we are so far behind might be explainable by this (if you haven't read it already do it urgently - it's a must read):

  

 

They are the products of their environment that doesn't value literacy unless it's a vehicle to employment and status. They have no intellectual curiosity. Regarding your point about all the disparaging stuff written about diasporan Sikhs in traditional Panjabi literature. Well, we could easily do the same - the amount of kartootaan I've seen from that quarter could easily be characterised, if someone wanted. But that would be a waste of time on tit for tat buckwaas. 

 

I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to get at. I was just saying that to target a younger audience, and those who are relatively new to the language, you need to simplify your work. It's one thing to try and compete with the traditional writers from back home, it's another to write for a new, emerging market/demographic.

 I get your point about not dumbing it down too much, but also, a reader might not want to learn a whole barrage of new words in one go. Or constantly have to look up words in a dictionary. Then it become laborious for them. I'm like you, when I learnt reading I too had a dictionary at hand. We have to factopr in the differences between readers who may not be like this. Make sense?   

 

You've come too far to give up! Like I said, people are like voyeurs, don't think that a lack of comments means lack of interest. 

 

 

You're absolutely right with your analysis in my opinion. In school, I was in a class of 3 (including me!) learning GCSE Panjabi, whilst Urdu classes were jam packed. Parents here don't prioritise it, and it's mainly Gurdwaras that actually teach it.  Going back to your first paragraph: Yes, a lot of people are going to get assimilated here. But some will make effort to try and preserve it, maybe encourage their kids to learn it, because their own parents never encouraged them to learn. That's when your stuff can a make a big difference. 

I think often when a thing is being lost, a movement springs up to counteract this. I don't seethe issue of loan words as a big one, because we've always had this in Panjab. I've always thought one of things a good writer does is resurrect some old interesting words and bring them back into use, maybe that will happen.  We've got quality dictionaries available now too. 

And like I alluded to earlier. I'm seeing things very different to you, I see a growing yearning for knowledge and even a slow shift in some elements in the diaspora towards a more intellectual approach to studying their Sikh heritage.  From my perspective we have young people who are intelligent enough to read Gurbani and use available resources to get a good understanding. 

 

 

Don't be so defeatist. When you're a pioneer (i.e. ahead of time), people might only really appreciate your stuff long after you've written it. It's a legacy.   

Guess I am being over sensitive. Its hard not to be when you have the older generation say one's writing is too western and alien to Punjabi and full of UK thinking and English Syntax etc...then you get the Brtish side saying we can't be arsed to learn Gurmukhi..

Makes it hard to know who I am aiming my fiction at and why am I bothering? Originally I just wanted to raise Punjabi's status to the same as the best in the world.

I'll try and not let it impact me and just quietly do my thing

 

[dalsingh101]

14 hours ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

Guess I am being over sensitive. Its hard not to be when you have the older generation say one's writing is too western and alien to Punjabi and full of UK thinking and English Syntax etc...then you get the Brtish side saying we can't be arsed to learn Gurmukhi..

Makes it hard to know who I am aiming my fiction at and why am I bothering? Originally I just wanted to raise Punjabi's status to the same as the best in the world.

I'll try and not let it impact me and just quietly do my thing

 

You're going to have ups and downs. I think you've found your passion here though? You'll never please everyone, and like any skill, you have to hone it over time. You have to be thick skinned (which, given your perseverance thus far, you probably are).  

Here's some more feedback: 

 

Canadian adult who immigrated from India under the age of ten:

there are quite a few gramatical errors, not sure if this is just the rough draft? Sounds very bland and simplistic, tbh.

I was a native speaker who migrated early and completely forgot it all. Re-learned it from scratch in later years. Developed a great deal of love and admiration for Gurbani's poetic value and grammar. The contemporary Punjabi works feel too dry and dull and appear as an attempt at "aglicizing", or almost mentally translating, the Punjabi style of writing, imho. if that makes sense?

I always found the non-religious gurmukhi literature very simplistic and difficult to engage my interest with, so i mostly stuck with Gurbani, steeks, sant-books. 

 

British raised adult Sikh:

Even some of the most devout NRI-born Sikhs barely know the language. Most lovers of fiction read for pleasure. If they're having to fish out the dictionary to understand even a sentence, it becomes an academic exercise; a chore.

If he wants an audience and a market, he'd be better off writing in English and tailoring the character archetypes using Punjabi culture as an anchor to get his message across. I admire the effort and the desire to produce Punjabi language content, but as Jai Tegang said it takes a master writer in Punjabi to produce free-flowing, lyrical prose. Otherwise it just reads like a technical manual or a non-fiction article.

 

 

 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

17 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

You're going to have ups and downs. I think you've found your passion here though? You'll never please everyone, and like any skill, you have to hone it over time. You have to be thick skinned (which, given your perseverance thus far, you probably are).  

Here's some more feedback: 

 

Canadian adult who immigrated from Indian under the age of ten:

there are quite a few gramatical errors, not sure if this is just the rough draft? Sounds very bland and simplistic, tbh.

I was a native speaker who migrated early and completely forgot it all. Re-learned it from scratch in later years. Developed a great deal of love and admiration for Gurbani's poetic value and grammar. The contemporary Punjabi works feel too dry and dull and appear as an attempt at "aglicizing", or almost mentally translating, the Punjabi style of writing, imho. if that makes sense?

I always found the non-religious gurmukhi literature very simplistic and difficult to engage my interest with, so i mostly stuck with Gurbani, steeks, sant-books. 

 

British raised adult Sikh:

Even some of the most devout NRI-born Sikhs barely know the language. Most lovers of fiction read for pleasure. If they're having to fish out the dictionary to understand even a sentence, it becomes an academic exercise; a chore.

If he wants an audience and a market, he'd be better off writing in English and tailoring the character archetypes using Punjabi culture as an anchor to get his message across. I admire the effort and the desire to produce Punjabi language content, but as Jai Tegang said it takes a master writer in Punjabi to produce free-flowing, lyrical prose. Otherwise it just reads like a technical manual or a non-fiction article.

 

 

 

Canadian adult who immigrated from India under the age of ten:

there are quite a few gramatical errors, not sure if this is just the rough draft? Sounds very bland and simplistic, tbh.

I was a native speaker who migrated early and completely forgot it all. Re-learned it from scratch in later years. Developed a great deal of love and admiration for Gurbani's poetic value and grammar. The contemporary Punjabi works feel too dry and dull and appear as an attempt at "aglicizing", or almost mentally translating, the Punjabi style of writing, imho. if that makes sense?

I always found the non-religious gurmukhi literature very simplistic and difficult to engage my interest with, so i mostly stuck with Gurbani, steeks, sant-books.

 

I got confused by this first thinking I didn't write this in English, then realised these are comment by people to you. only thing I am uncertain about is this the Nina story ( in which case the fact its is simple makes sense, and yes it has not been checked or proof read as I wrote it as first draft from the top of my head) if it refers to Haul, then once again this person is correct re it being a first draft which I have yet to fully read back myself and yes it needs proof reading..however I would like to think Haul isn't that simplistic?? I accept there is a natural influence of English syntax sentence structure ..however this is part intentional and part natural given my background. It's a bit like Marmite, I have seem some native Punjabi readers like it. some hate it

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

ritish raised adult Sikh:

Even some of the most devout NRI-born Sikhs barely know the language. Most lovers of fiction read for pleasure. If they're having to fish out the dictionary to understand even a sentence, it becomes an academic exercise; a chore.

If he wants an audience and a market, he'd be better off writing in English and tailoring the character archetypes using Punjabi culture as an anchor to get his message across. I admire the effort and the desire to produce Punjabi language content, but as Jai Tegang said it takes a master writer in Punjabi to produce free-flowing, lyrical prose. Otherwise it just reads like a technical manual or a non-fiction article.

 

Trouble is the current vocab knowledge I am guessing of British Punjabi Sikhs who have not read ate least several Nanak Singh, Sohan Singh Seetal, etc etc novels is so basic to make it simplier I'll get the same kind of comments made by the Canadian above, or it will be considered so basic it wil be laughed off as my early writing was..so whereas I get what this person is saying, but it is incumbent on the reader to make some effort to improve their vocab ( if we are talking again about Haul), but if they are saying this about Nina and the Iliti Jinn then I think I need that friend of yours who teaches punjabi to give me an idea of level of British reader standard, which is why I posted it here in the first place for feedback. I have been advised by one person I should maybe write for Native teenagers and its up the western ones to learn the words, as the market in both Indian and Pakistani Punjab is huge as is dying for teenage books, whereas hardly any western Punjabi can speak or understand Punjabi

[dalsingh101]

^^^^

The above comments are all about the Dark Narnia piece Roop!

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

8 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

^^^^

The above comments are all about the Dark Narnia piece Roop!

ok that makes sense...Yeah I did make it a bit bland and simplistic because I was thinking of UK teenager not Punjabi born Canadian immigrant who I am sure had a higher level vocab before he/she left Punjab. I accept the sentences are a little english..but that's both intentional and natural given who I am and who when I wrote it I THOUGHT my reader was..I can easily go back to the drawing board.

To be fair to me when I learnt English way back in the 1970s, I recall our school teachers encouraging us to always use a dictionary and have one next to you...I think as much as it may annoy the kids of the west if they are using the books to improve their Punjabi there is nothing wrong with giving them a little pain..as they get older and read more they eventually won't have to. thats my view at least.

 

Did these guy read the last PDF I added? That has footnotes to prevent going to a dictionary. Is that readable now that I am a member of Sikhawareness??

[dalsingh101]

10 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

ok that makes sense...Yeah I did make it a bit bland and simplistic because I was thinking of UK teenager not Punjabi born Canadian immigrant who I am sure had a higher level vocab before he/she left Punjab. I accept the sentences are a little english..but that's both intentional and natural given who I am and who when I wrote it I THOUGHT my reader was..I can easily go back to the drawing board.

To be fair to me when I learnt English way back in the 1970s, I recall our school teachers encouraging us to always use a dictionary and have one next to you...I think as much as it may annoy the kids of the west if they are using the books to improve their Punjabi there is nothing wrong with giving them a little pain..as they get older and read more they eventually won't have to. thats my view at least.

 

Did these guy read the last PDF I added? That has footnotes to prevent going to a dictionary. Is that readable now that I am a member of Sikhawareness??

I understand. And from my perspective these two responses are predictable. (They didn't read the pdf, just the posted text btw and yes, the pdf is now downloadable but remember what I said about having to break out of the narrative to look up words, even as footnotes!)  

The first feedback: way too simple and anglicised. Preferences might also play a big part as the reader stated that they are more attracted too Sikhi based Gurmukhi. Their vocab is already probably advanced and maybe fiction like this is not stimulating to them?  

For the second, they experienced the same thing as me, and maybe got tired of having to look up words. I'm with you on the point of fostering a culture where people should be encouraged to have a dictionary handy when reading, and stretching the reader, but I think this should be minimised at that level.  We should recognise in this day and age of diminishing attention spans (due to snappy phone technology), modern times seem to condition youngsters to be lazy in this respect, or have relatively poor concentration. You shouldn't worry about apparent 'simplification', because advance readers could always jump quickly to your more complex works.   

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

I understand. And from my perspective these two responses are predictable. (They didn't read the pdf, just the posted text btw and yes, the pdf is now downloadable but remember what I said about having to break out of the narrative to look up words, even as footnotes!)  

The first feedback: way too simple and anglicised. Preferences might also play a big part as the reader stated that they are more attracted too Sikhi based Gurmukhi. Their vocab is already probably advanced and maybe fiction like this is not stimulating to them?  

For the second, they experienced the same thing as me, and maybe got tired of having to look up words. I'm with you on the point of fostering a culture where people should be encouraged to have a dictionary handy when reading, and stretching the reader, but I think this should be minimised at that level.  We should recognise in this day and age of diminishing attention spans (due to snappy phone technology), modern times seem to condition youngsters to be lazy in this respect, or have relatively poor concentration. You shouldn't worry about apparent 'simplification', because advance readers could always jump quickly to your more complex works.   

yeah sahi gal..that makes sense. Thanks for all this time and effort by the way

 

You are the first reader who seems to be on my level and gets what i am doing

 

Anyhow I'd say once I have finished Haul ( which is for the older reader who wants to be challenged) I shall go back to drawing board and restart Jinn story

[dalsingh101]

Roop, some more feedback. I'm actually going to go through the Haul text and colour every word I'm unfamiliar with, so you can have an idea of what someone's level could be like. I can guess the meaning of some words, and probably know synonyms for some as well. 

 

ਹੌਲ
    ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ

ਪਰਿਚੈ

    ਅੱਗ ਨਾਲ਼ ਜਲ਼ਦਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਬੰਦਾ ਹਵਾਈ ਜਹਾਜ਼ ਦੇ ਮਲਬੇ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਨਿਕਲਿਆ। ਉਸ ਦਾ ਜੁੱਸਾ ਅੱਗ ਨਾਲ਼ ਤਪਦਾ ਸੀ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਇੱਕ ਮੋਮਬੱਤੀ ਦੀ ਲਾਟ ਵਿੱਚ ਲਪੇਟਿਆ ਹੋਵੇ; ਨਾਲ਼ੋਂ ਨਾਲ਼ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਮਾਸ ਉੱਬਲਕੇ ਪਿਘਲਦਾ ਸੀ। ਬਲ਼ਦਾ ਬਲ਼ਦਾ ਇਸ ਹਾਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਸਿੱਧਾ ਸੜਕ ਉੱਤੇ ਆ ਚੜ੍ਹਿਆ। ਇੱਕ ਪਲ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਨਿਗ੍ਹਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਵੱਲ ਟਿਕੀ ਫੇਰ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਹੱਥ ਧਰਤ ਉੱਤੇ ਧਰ ਲਏ ਅਤੇ ਜਾਨਵਰਾਂ ਵਾਂਗਰ ਹੱਥ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਉੱਤੇ ਉੱਥੋਂ ਉਜਾੜ ਦੇ ਓਲ੍ਹੇ ਨੱਸ ਗਿਆ।

    ਓਦੋਂ ਪਤਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਖ਼ੌਫਨਾਕ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਇੱਕ ਖੁੜਕਣਾ ਹੈ। ਇੱਕ ਕਿਸਮ ਦੀ ਚਿਤਾਵਣੀ ਸੀ। ਜਦ ਵੀ ਇਹ ਡਰਾਉਣਾ ਸੁਪਨਾ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਸੀ, ਮੈਂ ਉੱਠਦਾ ਸਾਂ, ਬੇਦਮ, ਮੁੜ੍ਹਕੋ ਮੁੜ੍ਹਕੀ ਅਤੇ ਕੰਬਦਾ, ਜਿਵੇਂ ਹਵਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਕਾਹੀ ਫਰ ਫਰ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ।

    ਪਰ ਜਿਓਂ ਜਿਓਂ ਵਕਤ ਬੀਤਿਆ, ਸੱਚ ਮੁੱਚ ਚਿਤਾਵਣੀ ਹੀ ਨਿਕਲੀ; ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਜਿਸ ਘਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਿਸਾਖੀ ਦੀਆਂ ਛੁੱਟੀਆਂ ਮਨਾਈਆਂ, ਉਸ ਮਕਾਨ ਨੂੰ ਅੱਗ ਨੇ ਛਕ ਲਿਆ ਸੀ ਅਤੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਸਾਰੇ ਉਸ ਵੇਲੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਹੀ ਸਾਂ। ਅਗਾਂਹ ਮੈਂ ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਦੱਸਾਂਗਾ ਕਿਸਮਤ ਨੇ ਕਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਬਚਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਸੀ ਅਤੇ ਕਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਚਾ ਸਕੀ। ਜੀਵਨ ਵਿੱਚ ਉਸ ਦੌਰ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਬਹੁਤ ਔਖਿਆਈਆਂ ਆਈਆਂ। ਹਰ ਔਖਿਆਈ ਦੀ ਜੜ੍ਹ ਉਹ ਰਾਤ ਹੀ ਸੀ। ਮਕਾਨ ਦੇ ਸਾੜਨ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਉਸ ਕਾਲ਼ੀ ਰਾਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਕੀ ਹੋਇਆ ਅਤੇ ਅਗਾਂਹ ਕੀ ਹੋਇਆ; ਹੁਣ ਸਭ ਦੱਸਣ ਲਈ ਤਿਆਰ ਹਾਂ।

    ਕਿਵੇਂ ਹੋਇਆ ਅਤੇ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਹੋਇਆ ਮੈਂ ਦੱਸ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ, ਪਰ ਤੁਹਾਡੀ ਮਰਜ਼ੀ ਹੈ ਜੇ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਮੇਰੀ ਨੂੰ ਸੱਚਾ ਮੰਨਦੇ ਹੋ ਜਾਂ ਏਸ ਦੀ ਗਵਾਹੀ ਭਰ ਦੇ ਹੋ। ਮੈਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਜੋ ਬੀਤਿਆ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਬਾਰੇ ਹੀ ਦੱਸ ਰਿਹਾ ਹਾਂ। ਖ਼ੈਰ ਜਿੰਨਾ ਮੇਰੀ ਸੋਚ ਸਮਝ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੈ।

    ਇੱਕ ਵਰ੍ਹੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ।

    ਉਂਝ ਮੈਂ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਹਾਂ ਪਰ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ। ਮੈਂ ਇੰਗਲੈਂਡ ਦਾ ਜੰਮਿਆ ਪਲਿਆ ਹਾਂ। ਉਸ ਪੀੜ੍ਹੀ ਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ਮਾਂ-ਪੇ ਇੱਥੇ ( ਮੇਰੇ  ਲਈ ਇੱਥੇ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਰ ਵਲਾਇਤ ਹੈ) ਸੱਠਵੇ ਦਹਾਕੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਏ ਸਨ। ਇਸ ਦਾ ਮਤਲਬ ਮੈਂ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਲਹਿਜੇ ਦੇ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਨਾਲ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲ ਲੈਂਦਾ, ਪਰ ਪੜ੍ਹ ਲਿਖ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਕਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਠੇਠ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਦੇ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਨਾਲ਼ ਬੋਲ ਸਕਦਾ ਹਾਂ। ਉਂਝ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਮੇਰੀ ਸਾਰੀ ਪੀੜ੍ਹੀ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਇੰਝ ਹੀ ਹੈ। ਸਾਥੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਜੰਮੇ-ਪਲੇ ਬਰਤਾਨਵੀ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਤਾਂ ਇਕੱਲੀ ਇੰਗਲਿਸ਼ ਬੋਲ ਲਿਖ ਸਕਦੇ ਹਨ। ਇਹ ਵੀ ਤਾਂ ਹੈ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਅਸੀਂ ਮਾਂ-ਪੇ ਨਾਲ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲ਼ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਹਾਂ ਪਰ ਆਪਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਤੇ ਆਪਣਿਆਂ ਨਿਆਣਿਆਂ ਨਾਲ਼ ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਅੰਗ੍ਰੇਜ਼ੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਗੱਲ ਬਾਤ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਾਂ। ਨਾਲ਼ੇ ਜਦ ਆਲੇ ਦੁਆਲ਼ੇ ਅੰਗ੍ਰੇਜ਼ੀ ਹੀ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਅਸਰ ਤਾਂ ਸਾਡੇ ਉੱਤੇ ਹੋਣਾ ਹੀ ਸੀ। ਸੋ ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਮੇਰਾ ਯੂ.ਕੇ ਦਾ ਲਹਿਜਾ ਜਾਂ ਵਾਕ ਬਣਤਰ ਥੋੜ੍ਹੀ ਬਹੁਤ ਗ਼ੈਰ ਮੁਲਕੀ ਲੱਗੇਗੀ, ਪਰ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਜੋ ਕਹਿਣਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਪੱਲੇ ਪੈ ਜਾਵੇਗਾ।

    ਜੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਤੌਰ ਤਰੀਕੇ ਜਾਂ ਉਪਬੋਲੀ ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਅਜੀਬ ਲੱਗਦੇ ਨੇ ਜਾਂ ਖ਼ਿਆਲ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਖ਼ਿਆਲਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਜ਼ਿਆਦੇ ਖੁੱਲ੍ਹੇ ਹਨ; ਇਸ ਦਾ ਇਲਜ਼ਾਮ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਤੰਗ ਦਿਮਾਗ਼ ਵਾਲੇ ਸਮਾਜ ਉੱਤੇ ਹੈ ਜਾਂ ਸਾਡੇ ਮਾਂ-ਪੇ ‘ਤੇ, ਜੋ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਤੋਂ ਨੱਸ ਕੇ ਇੱਥੇ ਆ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਸੀ। ਜਦ ਕੋਈ ਆਪਣੇ ਦੇਸ਼ ਨੂੰ ਛੱਡਦਾ ਹੈ, ਖ਼ਾਸ ਕਰ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾ ਵਾਸਤੇ, ਉਹ ਆਪਣਾ ਸਭ ਕੁਝ ਪਿੱਛੇ ਛੱਡ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਮਾਂ-ਬੋਲੀ, ਰਹਿਣ ਸਹਿਣ ਅਤੇ ਲੋਕ ਸੱਭਿਆਚਾਰ। ਜਦ ਕੋਈ ਪਰਵਾਸੀ ਬਾਹਰ ਪੱਕਾ ਹੋਣਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਜਿਸ ਮੁਲਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਰਹਿਣ ਦਾ ਮੌਕਾ ਮਿਲਦਾ ਉਸ ਜਗ੍ਹਾ ਦੇ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਨਾਲ਼, ਕਲਚਰ ਦੇ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਨਾਲ਼ ਰਹਿਣਾ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਉਸ ਪਰਵਾਸੀ ਦੀ ਔਲਾਦ ਨੇ ਪੁਰਾਣੇ ਮੁਲਕ ਦੇ ਸੱਭਿਆਚਾਰ ਨਾਲ਼ ਪੂਰਾ ਜੁੜ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਣਾ। ਜਿਹੜੇ ਹਿੱਸੇ ਉਸ ਔਲਾਦ ਨੂੰ ਪਸੰਦ ਹਨ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਰੱਖਣੇ ਨੇ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਨਵੇਂ ਮੁਲਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਲੀ ਹੈ। ਉਸ ਨੇ ਆਲ਼ੇ ਦੁਆਲ਼ੇ ਜਨਤਾ ਵਾਂਗ ਹੋਣਾ ਚਾਹੁਣਾ ਹੈ। ਮਾਂ-ਪੇ ਦੇ ਖ਼ਿਆਲ, ਪਿਛੋਕੜ ਅਤੇ ਸੋਚ ਉਸ ਔਲਾਦ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਬੇਗਾਨੇ ਹਨ। ਲੋਕਲ ਕਲਚਰ ਉਸ ਦਾ ਸੱਚਾ ਕਲਚਰ ਹੈ। ਬਾਹਰ ਜਾਣ ਵਾਲ਼ੇ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਜਦ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਨੂੰ ਛੱਡਣ ਦਾ ਫ਼ੈਸਲਾ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਨੇ, ਤਾਂ ਆਪਣਾ ਸਾਰਾ ਕੁਝ ਨਾਲ਼ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਹ ਸਕਦੇ। ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਸੋਚ ਅਤੇ ਪੱਛਮੀ ਸੋਚ ਇੱਕ ਦੂਜੇ ਨਾਲ਼ ਔਖੀ ਦੇਣੀ ਮਿਲਦੀ ਹੈ। ਮੈਨੂੰ ਲਗਦਾ ਜੋ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਆਮ ਹੈ ਉਹ ਖ਼ਿਆਲ, ਖ਼ਾਸ ਕਰ ਮਰਦਾਂ ਦੇ, ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ੍ਹ ਦੇ ਵਲਾਇਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਚਦੇ। ਇਸ ਲਈ ਜੇ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ ਉੱਤੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਖਿਆਲ ਲਾਗੂ ਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਕੋਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਕਰਨਗੇ ਤਾਂ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਬਾਗ਼ੀ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਗਵਾਚ ਜਾਣਾ ਹੈ। ਜੇ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮਜ਼ਬੂਰ ਕੀਤਾ ਗਿਆ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਦੀਆਂ ਰੀਤਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਆਪਣਾ ਜੀਵਨ ਘੱਟਨ, ਮੈਨੂੰ ਲਗਦਾ ਕਿ ਜ਼ਿਆਦੇ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਚੰਗੇ ਰਿਵਾਜਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਵੀ ਠੋਕਰ ਮਾਰ ਦੇਣੀ ਹੈ; ਸਗੋਂ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਮਜ਼ਬੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਨਾਲ਼ ਪਰਵਾਸੀ ਦੀ ਗ਼ਲਤੀ ਹੋਵੇਗੀ। ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਸਾਡੇ ਸਮਾਜ ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ੍ਹ ਭਾਰਤ ਦੇ ਕੁਝ ਖਿਆਲ਼ਾ ਨੂੰ ਤੰਗ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਖ਼ੁੱਲ੍ਹ ਭਾਲਦਾ। ਇਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਕੁਝ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਆਉਣ ਵਾਲ਼ੇ ਨੂੰ ਪਿਛਾਂਹ ਛੱਡਣੀਆਂ ਪੈਂਦੀਆਂ ਨੇ ਅਤੇ ਇਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਕਿ ਉਹ ਜਿੱਥੋਂ ਆਇਆ ਸੀ ਲਈ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾ ਸਿੱਕਦਾ ਰਹਵੇਗਾ। ਪਰ ਔਲਾਦ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਤਾਂ ਨਵਾਂ ਦੇਸ਼ ਹੀ ਘਰ ਹੈ। ਸੋ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਮੇਰੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਮੇਰੀ ਸਾਰੀ ਪੀੜ੍ਹੀ ਵਾਸਤੇ। ਕੁਝ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਪੁਰਾਣੇ ਪਿਛੋਕੜ ਦੀਆਂ ਪਸੰਦ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਸੋਚ ਪਸੰਦ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ। ਸਾਡੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਤਾਂ ਪੂਰਬ ਦੇ ਖ਼ਿਆਲ ਤੰਗ, ਅਣਪੜ੍ਹ ਅਤੇ ਅਸਭਿਆ ਹਨ। ਉਂਝ ਇੰਝ ਵੀ ਕਹਿਣਾ ਗ਼ਲਤ ਹੈ। ਇਹ ਮੇਰੇ ਵਰਗਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਖਿਆਲ ਹੈ ਪਰ ਕੁੱਕੀ ਜਦ ਵੀ ਮੈਂ ਇੰਝ ਕਹਿੰਦਾ ਹਾਂ ਮੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ਼ ਖਿੱਝ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ। ਬੋਲ਼ਦੀ, - ਤੁਸੀਂ ਕਿਸ ਮੂੰਹ ਨਾਲ਼ ਭਾਰਤ ਨੂੰ ਅਣਪੜ੍ਹ ਜਾਂ ਅਸਭਿਆ ਕਹਿ ਰਿਹੇ ਹੋ? ਜਦ ਗੋਰੇ ਗੁਫ਼ੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਬੈਠੇ ਸਨ ਭਾਰਤ, ਖ਼ਾਸ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਦੇ ਲੋਕ ਕਾਫ਼ੀ ਉੱਨਤ ਹੋ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਸੀ!-। ਮੈਂ ਮਾਫ਼ੀ ਮੰਗ ਕੇ ਫੇਰ ਉੱਤਰ ਦਿੰਦਾ, - ਮੇਰਾ ਮਤਲਬ ਹੈ ਉੱਥੇ ਤੰਗ ਸੋਚ ਹਾਲੇ ਹੈ। ਪਿਓ ਘਰ ਦਾ ਲੀਡਰ ਬਣ ਕੇ ਔਰਤ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਦੱਬ ਕੇ ਰੱਖਦਾ ਹੈ। ਰੋਹਬ ਚਲਾਉਂਦਾ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਤਲਬ!-। ਉਹ ਫੇਰ ਕਹਿੰਦੀ, - ਤੁਸੀਂ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਗੋਰਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਪੇਰਗੰਡਾ ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਮੰਨ ਪਏ! ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ੍ਹ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਉਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਿਹਾ!-।
    ਚੱਲੋਂ ਮੈਂ ਗ਼ਲਤ ਹਾਂ ਇਸ ਸੋਚ ਵਿੱਚ, ਪਰ ਇਹ ਸੋਚ ਕਿੱਥੋਂ ਆ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ? ਜਦ ਪਰਵਾਸੀ ਮਾਂ ਪਿਓ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਸਾਡੇ ਆਲ਼ੇ ਦੁਆਲ਼ੇ ਹਨ ਵਾਂਗ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਨ ਦਿੰਦੇ, ਸਾਡਾ ਜ਼ਿਹਨ ਹੀ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਸੋਚਣ ਲੱਗ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਲੱਗਦਾ ਅਸੀਂ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਹਿੱਸੇ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਤੋਂ ਲਿਆਂਦੇ ਨੇ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਜੋ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਜਚਦਾ ਚੁਣ ਦੇ ਨੇ। ਕੁਝ ਲੋਕ ਵਿਰਸਾ ਦੀ ਬੋਲ਼ੀ ਚੁਣ ਦੇ ਹਨ। ਕੁਝ ਜਣਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਧਰਮ ਪਸੰਦ ਹੈ ਜਾਂ ਬੰਬਈ ਦੀਆਂ ਫ਼ਿਲਮਾਂ ਜਾਂ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਦੇ ਗੀਤ। ਪਰ ਇੱਕ ਗੱਲ ਪੱਕੀ ਹੈ। ਉਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸਾਡੀ ਸੋਚ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਖਿਆਲਾਂ ਨਾਲ਼ ਮਿਲਣੀ ਔਖੀ ਹੈ। (- ਤੁਸੀਂ ਹੁਣ ਕੀ ਬਕ ਬਕ  ਕਰਦੈ! ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਔਖਾ ਲਗਦਾ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ, ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਵਿਰਸੇ ਬਾਰੇ ਫਖਰ ਕਰਦੀ ਹਾਂ!- ਕੁੱਕੀ ਨੇ ਇੱਕ ਬਾਰ ਕਿਹਾ ਜਦ ਮੈਂ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਵੀ ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਫੇਰ ਕੀਤੀ ਸੀ, - ਹੁਣ ਤਾਂ ਹੌਲ਼ੀ ਹੌਲ਼ੀ ਉੱਥੇ ਬਦਲ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ!-)।

    ਅੱਜ ਦੇ ਜ਼ਮਾਨੇ ਪੱਛਮੀ ਮੁਲਕਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਾਰੀ ਅਤੇ ਨਰ ਬਰਾਬਰ ਦੇ ਹਨ। ਮੈਨੂੰ ਲਗਦਾ, ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਮੈਂ ਗ਼ਲਤ ਹਾਂ, ਕਿ ਹਾਲੇ ਇੰਝ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ। ( ਇਹ ਕਹਿ ਕੇ ਆਸ ਪਾਸ ਦੇਖਦਾ ਕਿ ਹੁਣ ਕੱੁਕੀ ਫੇਰ ਨਾ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਟੋਕੇ!)। ਔਰਤ ਅਤੇ ਘਰ ਪਰਿਵਾਰ ‘ਤੇ ਆਦਮੀ ਦਾ ਰੋਹਬ ਨਹੀਂ ਚੱਲ ਸਕਦਾ, ਪੰਜਾਬ ਜਿਹੇ ਖਿੱਤਿਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਬੱਚੇ ਮਾਂ-ਪੇ ਨੂੰ ਅੱਗੋਂ ਸਵਾਲ ਜਵਾਬ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰ ਸਕਦੇ ਚਾਹੇ ਮਾਂ-ਪੇ ਗ਼ਲਤ ਹੋਣ ( ਇਹ ਗੱਲ ਕਿਸੇ ਉਮਰ ਦੇ ਹਰ ਵੱਡੇ ਉੱਤੇ ਵੀ ਲਾਗੂ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ), ਇਂਗਲੈਂਡ ਜਿਹੇ ਮੁਲਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਰ ਗ਼ਲਤ ਖ਼ਿਆਲ ਨੂੰ ਚੁਣੌਤੀ ਦੇਣਾ ਵਾਜਬ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸਿਰਫ਼ ਮਾਂ-ਪੇ ਜਾਂ ਟੀਚਰ ਹੋਣ ਦਾ ਮਤਲਬ ਇਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਿ ਕੋਈ ਹਰ ਵੇਲੇ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਨਾਲ਼ ਸਹਿਮਤ ਹੋਵੇ। ਹਰ ਕੋਈ ਜੋ ਕੁਝ ਕਰਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਜਿਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਕਰਦਾ ਉਸੇ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਇੱਜ਼ਤ ਦਾ ਭਾਗੀਦਾਰ ਹੁੰਦਾ। ਭਾਰਤ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਮ ਤੌਰ ਉੱਤੇ ਨਿਆਣਿਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਉਮਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਵੱਡਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਅੰਨ੍ਹੇਵਾਹ ਸਿਆਣਾ ਮੰਨ੍ਹ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਛੋਟੀ ਉਮਰ ਤੋਂ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਲਈ ਸੋਚਣਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਿਖਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ। ਪੜ੍ਹਾਈ ਇੱਕਲੀ ਨੌਕਰੀ ਲੈਣ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੈ, ਸਗੋਂ ਸੋਚ ਨੂੰ ਵਿਸ਼ਾਲ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ; ਸੰਸਾਰ ਅਤੇ ਦੁਨੀਆਦਾਰੀ ਬਾਰੇ ਦਿਲਚਸਪੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈ। ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਇਹੀ ਵਜ੍ਹਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਭਾਰਤ ਅੱਜ ਵੀ ਬਹੁਤੇ ਮੁਲਕਾਂ ਨਾਲ਼ੋਂ ਪਿੱਛੇ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਪਿੱਛੜ ਰਿਹੈ। ਅੱਜ ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ ਦੇਖੋ ਭਾਰਤ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਨਿਕਲ਼ਣ ਦੀ ਸੋਚ ਰਿਹਾ!

    ਇਸ ਨਰਕ ਤੋਂ ਲੋਕ ਨੱਸਣਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਨੇ।

    ਕੁੱਕੀ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਵਾਂਗ ਮੇਰੇ ਨਾਲ਼ ਇਸ ਖਿਆਲਾਂ ਉੱਤੇ ਗ਼ੱੁਸਾ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ ਪਰ ਮੇਰੇ ਵਰਗੇ ਫੇਰ ਵੀ ਕਹਿੰਦੇ ਨੇ ਕਿ ਜਿਸ ਮੁਲਕ ਦੇ ਜ਼ਿਆਦਾਤਰ ਲੋਕ ਵਹਿਮਾਂ ਭਰਮਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਫਸੇ ਹੋਣ ਉਹ ਅਗਾਂਹਵਧੂ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋ ਸਕਦਾ। ਭਾਰਤ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਸਮੇਂ ਤੋਂ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਹੁਣ ਤੀਕਰ ਜਾਤਾਂ ਪਾਤਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਧਰਮਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਵੰਡਿਆ ਪਿਆ ਹੈ। ਜੇ ਪੱਛਮ ਦਾ ਪਲਿਆ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵੱਲ ਝਾਤੀ ਮਾਰੇ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਨਜ਼ਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਭਾਰਤ ਸਿਆਣਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੱਗਦਾ। ਮੈਂ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਤੁਹਾਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਵਿਚਾਰਾਂ ਨਾਲ਼ ਔਖਾ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ, ਪਰ ਸਾਡੇ ਪੱਖ ਤੋਂ ਇਹ ਹੀ ਸਹੀ ਹੈ। ਦੂਜੇ ਪਾਸੇ ਮੈਂ ਜੋ ਦੱਸਣ ਲੱਗਾ ਹਾਂ, ਇੱਕ ਵਹਿਮ ਵਾਲ਼ੀ ਕਥਾ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਵੀ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇੱਕ ਪਖੰਡੀ ਸਮਝ ਸਕਦੇ ਹੋ। ਮੈਂ ਜਿੰਨਾ ਮਰਜ਼ੀ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਖ਼ਿਆਲਾਂ ਦੀ ਘੁੰਤਰ ਕੱਢਣੀ ਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹਾਂ, ਸੱਚ ਇਹ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਪੱਛਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਵੀ ਕਈ ਵਹਿਮ ਨੇ, ਜਿੰਨਾ ਮਰਜ਼ੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਪੜ੍ਹੇ ਲਿਖੇ ਸਮਝਦੇ ਹਾਂ। ਇੱਕ ਸ਼ੁਦਾਅ ਹੈ ਭੂਤਾਂ ਪਾਤਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ ਰੱਖਣ ਦਾ। ਮੈਂ ਖ਼ੁਦ ਜਿੰਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ ਅਤੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਸੋਚਣ ਦੇ ਹਿਸਾਬ ਨਾਲ਼ ਇਹ ਸਭ ਬਕਵਾਸ ਹੈ; ਪਰ ਕਈ ਗੋਰੇ ਲੋਕ ਚਾਮਚੜਿੱਕ ਰਾਖਸ਼ਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਾਲੇ ਤੀਕਰ ਵਿਸ਼ਵਾਸ ਰੱਖਦੇ ਨੇ ਜਾਂ ਬਲ਼ਾਵਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ। ਸਭ ਬਕਵਾਸ ਹੀ ਹੈ।

    ਮੈਨੂੰ ਬਾਪੂ ਨੇ ਦੱਸਿਆ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਬਾਬੇ ਨੇ ਇੱਕ ਵਾਰ ਗੋਰਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਸਾਹਮਣੇ ਹੀ ਇਸ ਵਹਿਮੀ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਝਾੜ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਸੀ। ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦਾ ਬਾਬਾ ਕਨੇਡਾ ਆਇਆ ਸੀ ਸੌ ਸਾਲ਼ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ, ਇੱਕ ਖੇਤ ਦਾ ਕਾਮਾਂ ਹੋ ਕੇ। ਲੋਕ ਮੰਨਦੇ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਹਰ ਰਾਤ ਇੱਕ ਭੂਤ ਖੇਤਾਂ ਉੱਤੇ ਘੁੰਮਦਾ ਸੀ। ਬਾਬੇ ਨੇ ਇੱਕ ਰਾਤ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਉੱਤੇ ਚਿੱਟੀ ਚਾਦਰ ਪਾ ਕੇ ਕਿਸਾਨਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਡਰਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਸੀ। ਫੇਰ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਾਹਮਣੇ ਚਾਦਰ ਲਾਹ ਕੇ ਦਿਖਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਕਿ ਚਾਦਰ ਥੱਲੇ ਬੰਦਾ ਹੀ ਹੈ। ਸਾਰੇ ਸ਼ਰਮ ਨਾਲ਼ ਚੁੱਪ ਹੋ ਚੁੱਕੇ ਸੀ। ਉਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੇ ਭੂਤ ਬਾਰੇ ਗੱਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤੀ ਸੀ।

    ਮੈਂ ਵੀ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਗੱਲਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਭੇਖੀ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹਾਂ। ਪੱਛਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਿੰਨਾ ਹੁਣ ਅਸੀਂ ਪੜ੍ਹੇ ਲਿਖੇ ਹਾਂ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਪਤਾ ਹੋਣਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਜੋ ਪੁਰਾਣੇ ਦਿਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਸਮਝ ਦੀ ਪਕੜ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਹਰ ਸੀ ( ਅਤੇ ਉਸ ਲਈ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਰੱਬ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਜਾਂ ਕੋਈ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਦਾਨਵ ਜਾਂ ਧਰਮ ਰਾਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਸੀ), ਹੁਣ ਕੋਈ ਤਰਕਸ਼ੀਲ ਬਿਆਨ ਨਾਲ਼ ਸਮਝਾਇਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਸਾਡੀ ਜਾਣਕਾਰੀ ਹਰ ਦਿਹਾੜੇ ਵੱਧਦੀ ਹੈ।
 

 

Any comments / opinions?

Enjoyed reading it. You might be right in that I'm the only one, but I can tell stuff like this would help me increase my vocab. 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

Hi Dalsingh Ji

Firstly I'm glad you liked it.  I'm hoping it is the best thing I have written so far. I have to agree with you about one thing, I fully understand why the majority of words in red would be unfamiliar. I myself have picked most of these up through 20 years of reading fiction, poetry and occasional vartak and newspaper articles. On top of that I religiously watched so many old ( pre 1970s) Punjabi movies from both sides of the border to evolve my punjabi diction. Then on top of that when writing I needed words on the same level as my English abilities so would naturally go to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Dictionary ( online) , Patiala Dictionary (Online) and others.  Also picked up a lot from conversations with so called Punjabi Intellectuals from both sides of the border. Therefore it is unfair for me to assume all readers who are not native to Punjab will understand every words I write!

So I get why they are in red.

That said I was surprised about a handful of them as even before I began my Punjabi Journey I knew these from listening to my parents and relatives speak and watching punjabi movies or listening to Bhangra in the 80s. I can only assume it could be a regional thing as some words may depend on that??

Either way, in Haul I have avoided inventing words so almost all of them will probably be in the Patiala Dictionary ( see link http://dic.learnpunjabi.org  ). As you have highlighted them I feel obliged to answer below ( PS my battery is about to run out so if I don't complete this now I'll do so later..)

 

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਮਲਬੇ Debris Rubble etc

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਜੁੱਸਾ Body, same as Pinda, Jisam Sareer ( to be fair to readers its a Majhi word so although part of standard punjabi more local to Amritsar in India and most of Pakistan

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਲਾਟ Flame

 

 

 

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਪਿਘਲਦਾ to melt as in kulfi pighalgi

 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

also

 

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਬਲ਼ਦਾ

Balda...to burn, to flame or ignite

 

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਪ੍ਰਾਪੇਰਗੰਡਾ

This is just Propaganda spelt in Gurmukhi! If you enter the others in dictionary you will find them there

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

and some more...

 

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਉਜਾੜ desolation / wasteland

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਓਲ੍ਹੇ  hidden away from view / cover / secracy

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਖ਼ੌਫਨਾਕ Terrifying

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਖੁੜਕਣਾ premonition to have a premonition as it is a verb

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਚਿਤਾਵਣੀ warning

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਕਾਹੀ type of reed / grass so in this case swaying reeds / grass

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਗਵਾਹੀ testimony / witness

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਇਲਜ਼ਾਮ blame

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਪਲੀ as it is referring to a subject which is feminine have written pali...but is the verb palna or to raise as in where people have grown up etc

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਜਚਦੇ to suit match or fit eg a married couple ..auh ik duje naal jachde ne

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਭਾਲਦਾ to look for or search connotation of want as well

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਅਸਭਿਆ form of the word Assabh which means uncultured 

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਉੱਨਤ improved advanced or developed

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਜ਼ਿਹਨ another word for demaag or mind / as demaaag is more brain brainy

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਫਖਰ to be proud of or justified or righteous 

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਖਿੱਤਿਆਂ from Khitta or region

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਭਾਗੀਦਾਰ partner / co sharer

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਅੰਨ੍ਹੇਵਾਹ blindly rashly recklessly

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਅਗਾਂਹਵਧੂ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

and finally...

 

It is interesting how different peoples level of vocab is..apart from the factors I mentioned before I think it can only be a regional thing as well as a reflection of the language our parents use when speaking. Also only through the exercise of learning to read and write punjabi I have learnt that the literary language is is very different from spoken punjabi..My dad was from Doaba and my mum is from Malwa...which also has an impact on my Punjabi..My understanding is most Punjabi Sikhs in the UK are from ( pre 2000s) Doaba...so I wonder if that is it? Also the Prestige written language of Punjabi predating the partition and hindification and urduisation thereafter was Majhi/ Lahnda which is also known as Takseel or kendal punjabi nowadays. the so called queen's english. The interesting thing about it is mostly now spoken in Pakistan only and near Amritsar whilst since Ludianiana 

and Chandigarh developed in India, the standard has shifted towards Malwai or hindu influenced Punjabi in recent decades. Punjabi nowadays is a concoction of English, Punjabi, Hindi , Urdu, Sanskrit, Arabic and the more it moves away from Lahori / Amritsari Punjabi the more the chances are unless we all use the same script one both sides of the border the language will split into two different ones with as much difference as Portuguese and Spanish, thus 2 separate languages. This will also justify killing off Punjabi as in India all kids born after 2000 actually speak Hindi with a touch of Punjabi 

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਤੀਕਰ just another way of saying takk

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਸ਼ੁਦਾਅ mania ( could be I should not have added the Aaa at the end, remember this has not been proofread yet for errors)

 

Interestingly I spoke a famous Pakistani Punjabi writer who is also a lawyer out there. He has the same concerns and says while he enjoys my work and that of others, he finds that 40% of the Indian side of vocab nowadays is unitelligible as it is full of Hindi and Sanskrit words and on his side of border same % on Urdu/ Arabic words.

He also strongly believes that the Gurmukhi Alphabet is better suited to Punjabi but that suggestion would cause political problems in Pakistan 

 

Listening to him I had the following thought, maybe it need to be a separate topic...the thought is that Gurmukhi and Shamukhi are not helpful labels as they religiously divide the punjabis and that destroys Punjabi. Look at how in both Bangladesh and Bengal India it has always been the same alphabet ignoring religious ideals. Also note that Guyru Angad took the already existing in Punjab Landha script and updated and modernised it for Punjabi to communicate all that is in the Adi Granth to the common people.

In my mind that does not just mean Sikhs, but all common Punjabis. Access to all for the Guru Granth Sahib. Now with that in mind take the British Divide and conquer policy of dividing us into Sikh, Hindu and Muslim and also inventing Hindi off od Urdu, all designed to separate us accumulating in the Partition and the modern mindset of the Indian Subcontinent , specifically the North.. Also take into account when I was a child it was never really called Gurmukhi but was called the Painti. Nowadays it should probably be called the Punjabi Iktaali as there are 41 letters in it now. In short it should just be promoted as Punjabi Alphabet. It is then secular and up to those in Pakistan to have the sense to adapt it. The truth is their Nasleeq or Shahmukhi Alphabet is older in terms of using it to write Punjabi but is is adopted through Persian from Arabic and as foreign to Punjabi as is English Alphabet and does not suit all the sounds, Guru Angad's Punjabi Alphabet does

[dalsingh101]

ਜਾਨਵਰਾਂ ਵਾਂਗਰ ਹੱਥ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਉੱਤੇ ਉੱਥੋਂ ਉਜਾੜ ਦੇ ਓਲ੍ਹੇ ਨੱਸ ਗਿਆ।

Are you sure this is correct Roop? 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

10 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

ਜਾਨਵਰਾਂ ਵਾਂਗਰ ਹੱਥ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਉੱਤੇ ਉੱਥੋਂ ਉਜਾੜ ਦੇ ਓਲ੍ਹੇ ਨੱਸ ਗਿਆ।

Are you sure this is correct Roop? 

Like an animal, he got on all fours , hidden behind the devastation and then ran away??..I hope so I can get it checked

[dalsingh101]

7 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

Like an animal, he got on all fours , hidden behind the devastation and then ran away??..I hope so I can get it checked

Yeah, get it checked. I might be wrong but it don't seem to read right?