Gobind Gita katha project!

[shastarSingh]

https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/89120-gobind-gita-katha-project/

[dalsingh101]

56 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/89120-gobind-gita-katha-project/

You beat me to it. lol!

[shastarSingh]

32 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

You beat me to it. lol!

Veerji

U told me that in UK, sikhi is getting better and there is interest in exploring and reading Granths.

Plz contact like minded Sikhs and get in touch with Gurwinder Singh nangli so that detailed katha on Gobind gita is done.

Gurwinder Singh nangli has done detailed katha on Sarbloh Granth as well which was lesser known among Sikhs.

https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Gl55ok2jC12S25_9SEPdg

[dalsingh101]

4 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

U told me that in UK, sikhi is getting better and there is interest in exploring and reading Granths.

Bhai ji, we've got a lot of desis coming in now. They aren't remotely interested in these things. I'm worried we might return back to the bhangra paa-ing stereotype days.....

But yeah, some people are interested on a personal level. 

[shastarSingh]

25 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Bhai ji, we've got a lot of desis coming in now. They aren't remotely interested in these things. I'm worried we might return back to the bhangra paa-ing stereotype days.....

But yeah, some people are interested on a personal level. 

Turiyacharity.com are also doing translations of old lesser known Granths. They hv done translation of hanuman natak and i hv heard they doing english translation of Gobind Gita as well.

https://www.turiyacharity.com/project/hanuman-natak/

We need a katha on Gobind gita as this text requires detailed vichar and contemplation.

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

Turiyacharity.com are also doing translations of old lesser known Granths. They hv done translation of hanuman natak and i hv heard they doing english translation of Gobind Gita as well.

https://www.turiyacharity.com/project/hanuman-natak/

We need a katha on Gobind gita as this text requires detailed vichar and contemplation.

Good Turiya are doing something.

Most people I know wouldn't listen to katha, but they'd read a book.  

[shastarSingh]

https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/88887-proof-that-gobind-gita-is-gurbani/

[paapiman]

On 1/4/2022 at 6:40 AM, dalsingh101 said:

I'm worried we might return back to the bhangra paa-ing stereotype days..

A bit off-topic, but to add to your point. Atheism might also be on a rise in our community. If that happens, you can definitely bet on Bhangra becoming very big among Punjabis in the future.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Sajjan_Thug]

On 1/4/2022 at 5:15 AM, dalsingh101 said:

Good Turiya are doing something.

Most people I know wouldn't listen to katha, but they'd read a book.  

It's not that hard, if we stop one or two nagar kirtans we can use those funds to translate all puratan granths but we dont have the desire.  We want tamasha and things that arouse our senses not something  that will develop our mind and make us more strategic panth.

[Sajjan_Thug]

On 1/11/2022 at 11:08 AM, paapiman said:

A bit off-topic, but to add to your point. Atheism might also be on a rise in our community. If that happens, you can definitely bet on Bhangra becoming very big among Punjabis in the future.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Do you feel ours sants and sampradays have done a very poor job of curbing all these activities and why? Also, how do you think they can be successfull at eliminating these bad vices?

[dalsingh101]

4 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Do you feel ours sants and sampradays have done a very poor job of curbing all these activities and why?

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. 

Also, our sampardayas have had powerful, well resourced forces working against them for a long while. That being said, once people start questioning 'Sikhism' (which emerged during the colonial period), they'll need something to reconnect with their true Sikhi roots. Samparadayas can/will play a big part in facilitating that. 

[paapiman]

9 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Do you feel ours sants and sampradays have done a very poor job of curbing all these activities and why? Also, how do you think they can be successfull at eliminating these bad vices?

Pakhandis are causing problems in the Panth.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Sajjan_Thug]

9 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. 

Also, our sampardayas have had powerful, well resourced forces working against them for a long while. That being said, once people start questioning 'Sikhism' (which emerged during the colonial period), they'll need something to reconnect with their true Sikhi roots. Samparadayas can/will play a big part in facilitating that. 

But our sampradays are also powerful and have huge amount of followers and resources plus they have bir rass/nihangs.  Should we not expect our sampraday to always know through antarjami sants what is happening and how to counter it.  It seems the opponents are always ahead, why is that?

What is wrong with questioning Sikhi?  The nirmala sadhus were established to get higher learning and the Taksal.  Guru Sahib had alot of scholars in his Darbar and Bhai Gurdas Ji use to debate Gurmat with other scholars.

Dont think there is anything wrong with questioning Sikhi.  We just have to provide a satisfactory answer to the questions?  People might have interpreted something wrong and we just need to clarify.  This involves alot of studying from all points of view and knowing why your position is the best.  Maybe we haven't done that and that's where our focus should be.

[Sajjan_Thug]

6 hours ago, paapiman said:

Pakhandis are causing problems in the Panth.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Why are sants/sampradays so powerless infront of these pakhandis?  Maybe we need to develop our debating and discussion skills to help them better understand our point of view?  Also, 
Can't our sants change the minds of these pakhandis with their shakti we hear this happens in the jeevan sakhis of sants and katha?

[dalsingh101]

3 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

But our sampradays are also powerful and have huge amount of followers and resources plus they have bir rass/nihangs.  Should we not expect our sampraday to always know through antarjami sants what is happening and how to counter it.  It seems the opponents are always ahead, why is that?

To me, (and I know this will be controversial to some) I think this is infantilised thinking to the extreme. How I interpret that (rightly or wrongly) is that certain SIkhs don't want to go through the (often gruelling and challenging) process of developing as a community and want a 'magic man' to remove all challenges and obstacles for them. We have had mandates from our Gurus themselves to develop our social, political and military knowledge, power and skills. This is a duty of the panth. We have been given organisational structures like panj piaray to help make a decision base on wise consensus. Plus frankly speaking, I think since annexation we've been bombarded into hardcore penduism to detrimental effect. So we are seriously underdeveloped as a quom right now, and the situation isn't accidental. Part of this 'underdevelopment' involves lumpen sections of the panth, not even realising that this is where we are at.  

Quote

 

What is wrong with questioning Sikhi?  The nirmala sadhus were established to get higher learning and the Taksal.  Guru Sahib had alot of scholars in his Darbar and Bhai Gurdas Ji use to debate Gurmat with other scholars.

Dont think there is anything wrong with questioning Sikhi.  We just have to provide a satisfactory answer to the questions?  People might have interpreted something wrong and we just need to clarify.  This involves alot of studying from all points of view and knowing why your position is the best.  Maybe we haven't done that and that's where our focus should be.

 

Querying or 'questioning' Sikhi is a necessary precursor to developing your understanding and learning in my opinion.   I don't think you got my point. Personally I've come to believe that there is a 'religion' called 'Sikhism' that developed under colonial rule, which might look like Sikhi from an external perspective, but I don't think is Sikhi at all, rather some politicised, colonial hybrid creation, designed to keep us subdued and docile.   

[shastarSingh]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

To me, (and I know this will be controversial to some) I think this is infantilised thinking to the extreme. How I interpret that (rightly or wrongly) is that certain SIkhs don't want to go through the (often gruelling and challenging) process of developing as a community and want a 'magic man' to remove all challenges and obstacles for them. We have had mandates from our Gurus themselves to develop our social, political and military knowledge, power and skills. This is a duty of the panth. We have been given organisational structures like panj piaray to help make a decision base on wise consensus. Plus frankly speaking, I think since annexation we've been bombarded into hardcore penduism to detrimental effect. So we are seriously underdeveloped as a quom right now, and the situation isn't accidental. Part of this 'underdevelopment' involves lumpen sections of the panth, not even realising that this is where we are at.  

Querying or 'questioning' Sikhi is a necessary precursor to developing your understanding and learning in my opinion.   I don't think you got my point. Personally I've come to believe that there is a 'religion' called 'Sikhism' that developed under colonial rule, which might look like Sikhi from an external perspective, but I don't think is Sikhi at all, rather some politicised, colonial hybrid creation, designed to keep us subdued and docile.   

We Sikhs don't work in a cohesive and United manner.

In our panth, we hv groups(sampardas, jathas) and within these groups, we hv sub groups lol.

Veer ji

Even in UK, we don't hv the sikh unity that we need to defeat our enemies. So is this a pendu problem ?

Veerji

U are not a pendu and proactive veerji is also not a pendu but u both fight with each other on internet which the whole world can see.

 

[dalsingh101]

6 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

We Sikhs don't work in a cohesive and United manner.

In our panth, we hv groups(sampardas, jathas) and within these groups, we hv sub groups lol.

Veer ji

Even in UK, we don't hv the sikh unity that we need to defeat our enemies. So is this a pendu problem ?

Veerji

U are not a pendu and proactive veerji is also not a pendu but u both fight with each other on internet which the whole world can see.

 

I think proactive is more of an old fashioned jut than a Sikh by miles. That's where the disagreements happen. He's already said (numerous times as well) that he'd prefer a nonSikh jut over another Sikh from a different jaat. Says it all in my eyes. 

[Premi]

43 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

I think proactive is more of an old fashioned jut than a Sikh by miles. That's where the disagreements happen. He's already said (numerous times as well) that he'd prefer a nonSikh jut over another Sikh from a different jaat. Says it all in my eyes. 

Really ? I've not seen that. Have seen him post lots about not trusting /liking Hindu and Muslim Panjabis.

I still think he was @tonyhp32 here also .

[dalsingh101]

21 minutes ago, Premi said:

Really ? I've not seen that. Have seen him post lots about not trusting /liking Hindu and Muslim Panjabis.

I still think he was @tonyhp32 here also .

Well, he explicitly said it. 

In any case, I think I've made my case ad nauseam on forums now. I think I've said everything I felt needed to be said numerous times time well over a decade. Soon it'll time for me to come off these things because I think I've said everything I felt I needed too.   Otherwise I'll just feel like a parrot. lol! 

[sarabatam]

On 5/17/2022 at 4:03 PM, dalsingh101 said:

Well, he explicitly said it. 

In any case, I think I've made my case ad nauseam on forums now. I think I've said everything I felt needed to be said numerous times time well over a decade. Soon it'll time for me to come off these things because I think I've said everything I felt I needed too.   Otherwise I'll just feel like a parrot. lol! 

Oh man i feel the same way. Silence is golden for me these days. 

[dalsingh101]

14 minutes ago, sarabatam said:

Oh man i feel the same way. Silence is golden for me these days. 

You left a mark with your forum brother, and I know you had to fight for it. This is like a khazana for others now. 

[Sajjan_Thug]

On 5/17/2022 at 4:38 AM, dalsingh101 said:

To me, (and I know this will be controversial to some) I think this is infantilised thinking to the extreme. How I interpret that (rightly or wrongly) is that certain SIkhs don't want to go through the (often gruelling and challenging) process of developing as a community and want a 'magic man' to remove all challenges and obstacles for them.  

But isn't this the kind of sakhies sants/sampraday tell in katha?  And if someone gets too academic and studies alot of books then people start calling them katabi to defame them?

Could it possibly be some aspects of sants/sampraday are to blame for creating this kind of thinking in the sangat and how do we solve this?

On 5/17/2022 at 4:38 AM, dalsingh101 said:

Querying or 'questioning' Sikhi is a necessary precursor to developing your understanding and learning in my opinion.   I don't think you got my point. Personally I've come to believe that there is a 'religion' called 'Sikhism' that developed under colonial rule, which might look like Sikhi from an external perspective, but I don't think is Sikhi at all, rather some politicised, colonial hybrid creation, designed to keep us subdued and docile.   

But what have our sants/sampradays done to counter this?  Do they completely understand what happened and have they written on this subject?  And have they changed their strategy to make sure it doesn't happen again?

 

 

[dalsingh101]

1 hour ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

But isn't this the kind of sakhies sants/sampraday tell in katha?  And if someone gets too academic and studies alot of books then people start calling them katabi to defame them?

Could it possibly be some aspects of sants/sampraday are to blame for creating this kind of thinking in the sangat and how do we solve this?

Sants connect us to Gurbani and spiritual discipline from what I can see. That is directly related to our Guru sahiban's teachings. But sants (well sant Ishar Singh ji maharaj anyway) do not seem to limit our learning, and by pointing us in the right direction, open up other doors of knowledge for us - this is completely in line with Sikhi. Although in recent historic times we've had a heavy emphasis on the warrior side of dasmesh pita, informed inquisitive people today are realising just how important exploring and being informed/educated on social,, historical, political and cultural matters was in dasmesh pita's darbar (on top of all the military training). The Dasam Granth clearly reflects that, as well as what we know of the productions of kavi darbars.

I don't think it was the wrong move for certain (aforementioned) sants to focus on cohesion and spirituality in the panth when they did, and I can say with the benefit of hindsight, their endeavours have made an important impact in overcoming more base, deeply rooted tribal/casteist instincts lots of apnay have. I see their work as like pushing a child (the panth) on a bike to steady them, in order to teach them to ride the bike unassisted. 

Quote

But what have our sants/sampradays done to counter this?  Do they completely understand what happened and have they written on this subject?  And have they changed their strategy to make sure it doesn't happen again?

I can only talk about my own perspective on this, but personally I feel the Bhai Daya Singh Sampardaya (and possibly other sampardayas I am unfamiliar with), have provided us with nothing short of a lifeline to have some connection to our Sikhi heritage that isn't completely subsumed by the colonial agenda. Just their existence provides us with an unbroken Sikhi tradition. 

I think our problems stem from our own (the panths) laxity in developing in certain areas where we've had precedents set from the days of our Guru ji's physical manifestation here on earth. Like developing economies, strongholds, defence, cohesion and support for panthic development, a rich literate explorative literary culture etc. etc.  This is the way to combat many of our issues. 

 

[Sajjan_Thug]

On 5/17/2022 at 1:03 PM, dalsingh101 said:

Well, he explicitly said it. 

In any case, I think I've made my case ad nauseam on forums now. I think I've said everything I felt needed to be said numerous times time well over a decade. Soon it'll time for me to come off these things because I think I've said everything I felt I needed too.   Otherwise I'll just feel like a parrot. lol! 

Have you thought about writing a autobiography?  You have alot of knowledge about Sikhi in UK over the past decades from your own personal experience.  It will be great to have it documented or else that personal knowledge will be lost.  Also, your writing ability, analysis and being concise and to the point will make for interesting read.  You will be Bhangu of UK.  Panth Parkash UK edition.

 

[dalsingh101]

19 minutes ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Have you thought about writing a autobiography?  You have alot of knowledge about Sikhi in UK over the past decades from your own personal experience.  It will be great to have it documented or else that personal knowledge will be lost.  Also, your writing ability, analysis and being concise and to the point will make for interesting read.  You will be Bhangu of UK.  Panth Parkash UK edition.

 

I couldn't write anything that could ever compare with Bhangu's work. That's a Sikh classic now. An invaluable source which contains ithihaasic information not found elsewhere.