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34 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

What are your thoughts on reconciling Sikhi, with muslim neighbors who consider us kafir? And belive that criminalizing us and sex traficking us is permitted due to our status outside of the abrahamic paradigm?

I have close muslim friends. I know it's a weird question, but how can one exactly coexist with a group that doesn't view them as human, feels they have a religous duty to convert you and don't consider crimes against you a crime?

Language is often a barrier. Has your experience with Punjabi as a language given you any insights into this topic in a broader way?

 

all I can say is that the pro punjabi muslims I know from Pakistan itself don't give me that impression. Dare I say it that they may be left wing- arty farty in their nature...maybe thus very liberal within the confines of the punjabi culture combined with Islam. Even we have Katar Sikhs. That said they do not reflect the ones in Britain, and those I think since 9/11 and all that, are not the same. One Pakistani Professor put it like this to me years ago..Urdu is a language of hate, Punjabi of love...so I guess you have to take all humans individually as you find them. All Abrahamic Religions are illogical anyhow, but that is just my view..so I think those who consider anyone Kafir/ Heritic/ or Lower caste are all cut from the same cloth..not clothes I want to wear

In short it depends who your neighbour is. Grooming is certainly a problem in the UK and is associated with gangs mostly made up of muslim men. I did not think Sex trafficking is permitted though..Yesterday was Lori / Lodi...its most famous person is Dulla Bhatti of Lahore, a muslim who fought Mughals, saving Hindu women. So I don't think it is a religious thing,  ( I could be wrong but ask a Muslim woman what she thinks of this) but a cultural arrogance???

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11 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

I did not think Sex trafficking is permitted though.

I think it is. Muslim scholars openly admit that slavery was/is a part of the islamic economy, if not central to it (and this includes the sexual slavery of captured female captives, and by the looks of it, even young males). I think these 'cultural norms' are even older than islam itself and were practiced by arabs prior to mohammad being born.  

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5 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

yes I agree with you. Many things they do in their community despite our  union of language are alien to my sikh upbringing...including marrying relatives or girls half your age etc...language can unite us and create a discourse...but all the rest of these things are so different...I think the worst I have heard ours do is Honour Killings, though allegedly there was a Sikh member of a northern muslin grooming gang in the news some years ago...anyhow my views on this are on display in my story Gunda, which may offend some muslims, but grooming gangs are a fact

Bhai ji, other brothers have highlighted how some wear karas to pretend to be Sikh to con Sikh females, the amount of times I've had someone who is obviously not Sikh start speaking Panjabi to me and tell me that they are Sikh in recent years is telling too. 

It's obvious they are trying to infiltrate us. 

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8 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

though allegedly there was a Sikh member of a northern muslin grooming gang in the news some years ago..

That just reinforces the idea of being very wary of who you mix with. 

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6 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Bhai ji, other brothers have highlighted how some wear karas to pretend to be Sikh to con Sikh females, the amount of times I've had someone who is obviously not Sikh start speaking Panjabi to me and tell me that they are Sikh in recent years is telling too. 

It's obvious they are trying to infiltrate us. 

The general giveaway to that will be 1) They will have a Majhi accent, most Sikhs in west have Doabi/ Malwae 2) They do look ..."different"

Yeah I know about the Kara thing

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15 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

anyhow my views on this are on display in my story Gunda,

That's next on my reading list. You'll probably find me posting a lot of words you used in that vocabulary thread in future. 

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1 minute ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

The general giveaway to that will be 1) They will have a Majhi accent, most Sikhs in west have Doabi/ Malwae 2) They do look ..."different"

Yeah I know about the Kara thing

Potohari accent too. Pronouncing arab loan words with proper arabic guttural inflection. I tend to try and keep this info secret so they don't adapt to the disclosure. 

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1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

Potohari accent too. Pronouncing arab loan words with proper arabic guttural inflection. I tend to try and keep this info secret so they don't adapt to the disclosure. 

you just gave it away on here...I tend to try and pronounce my pair bindis so I may be in danger! There are a few actual Sikhs from that area, just as there are Muslims in Pakistan from India who also have Doabi or Malwai accents...though its a good rule of thumb, its not 100% as a result.  Sikh girls I know that have gone with Muslims seem to do it out of choice or rebelling in some manner. Then again Muslim and Hindu girls have been known to marry Sikhs as well. The Key is issue is the conversion. Everyone always seems to be olbiged expected to become Muslim. EG Omar Shariff was born catholic but he married a muslim woman and had to convert. And it is definitely that way for women marrying Muslim men. To my knowledge Sikhs don't do that.

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22 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Bhai ji, other brothers have highlighted how some wear karas to pretend to be Sikh to con Sikh females, the amount of times I've had someone who is obviously not Sikh start speaking Panjabi to me and tell me that they are Sikh in recent years is telling too. 

It's obvious they are trying to infiltrate us. 

Why do they start talking to you? Don't they think it would be obvious once you ask them where their family is from back home and a few questions related to Sikhi that they will be found  out ?!

 

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7 minutes ago, Premi said:

Why do they start talking to you? Don't they think it would be obvious once you ask them where their family is from back home and a few questions related to Sikhi that they will be found  out ?!

 

Be a risk with @dalsingh101, but unfortunately some of our young ladies wouldn't have the depth of Gurmat to notice. 

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56 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Be a risk with @dalsingh101, but unfortunately some of our young ladies wouldn't have the depth of Gurmat to notice. 

It's important I guess for that reason that Sikh youth here and in the West know some Panjabi culture and understanding and ability to speak it. 

I reckon I could suss out a 'fake' just by asking about their village/local area in Panjab, and you ask them specific questions like 'do you know x at your local Gurdwara etc' - that is hard to fake a response to

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23 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Bhai ji, other brothers have highlighted how some wear karas to pretend to be Sikh to con Sikh females, the amount of times I've had someone who is obviously not Sikh start speaking Panjabi to me and tell me that they are Sikh in recent years is telling too. 

It's obvious they are trying to infiltrate us. 

On SS you mentioned about encouraging your mixed race relative to wear a Kara. It's clear that it's not helpful necessarily if they don't have any of the other Kakaars

These people speaking Panjabi to you, are they British-raised or they from India or Pakistan ?

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