Inderpal1994 Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 Whenever I read people post about Akaal Purakh, or when I read the translation (which we use) about Akaal Purakh. I keep getting this vibe of a sky god. And the way we speak of Akaal Purakh is not as a ultimate supreme entity that lives within each of us, and everything, but instead it sounds more like the way the Abrahamic's speak about God. Are we still stuck with the mentality of the colonisers, in which we had to speak their language and interpret/frame gurmat to fit the understanding of the colonisers? Please share your views and opinions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 44 minutes ago, Inderpal1994 said: Whenever I read people post about Akaal Purakh, or when I read the translation (which we use) about Akaal Purakh. I keep getting this vibe of a sky god. And the way we speak of Akaal Purakh is not as a ultimate supreme entity that lives within each of us, and everything, but instead it sounds more like the way the Abrahamic's speak about God. Are we still stuck with the mentality of the colonisers, in which we had to speak their language and interpret/frame gurmat to fit the understanding of the colonisers? Please share your views and opinions. Read Gurbani more throughly first I'd say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 Also. Without a foundation in something, what makes you think "your" God is any better than described in the Bible let alone Guru Granth Sahib Ji? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inderpal1994 Posted September 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 7 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said: Also. Without a foundation in something, what makes you think "your" God is any better than described in the Bible let alone Guru Granth Sahib Ji? I have a foundation. What I am saying is sikhi have their own (not exclusive) awareness of the Divine. However, when I read through post and sikh commentary the God we speak on sounds more like the Abhramic God. Our awareness on the Divine differs from the Abhramic understanding. Also, I was not trying to say "my" God is better than someone else. If that's the vibe you got from my question, my apologies. But, that's not what I'm saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inderpal1994 Posted September 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 7 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said: Read Gurbani more throughly first I'd say. I read, I listen to respected gyani and bhramgyani. I do my own research. Hence why I am asking for your opinion and views. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Inderpal1994 said: I read, I listen to respected gyani and bhramgyani. I do my own research. Hence why I am asking for your opinion and views. What's happened is Gurbani and the Bible didn't match new age spiritualism. The inner, outer and external natures of God are in there bro. Be careful before Guru Nanak Dev Ji is "a metaphor" not a real person. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 And Gurbani calls anyone who doesn't understand the Bible a fool for dismissing it. You guys keep throwing rocks at a neighbor the Guru Sahiban did not castigate on purpose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 ਅਕਾਲਪੁਰਖਬਾਚਇਸਕੀਟਪ੍ਰਤਿ॥ akaal purakh baach is keeT prat || The Words of the Non-temporal Lord to this insect: ਚੌਪਈ॥ chauapiee || CHAUPAI ਜਬਪਹਿਲੇਹਮਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਬਨਾਈ॥ jab pahile ham sirasaT banaiee || ਦਈਤਰਚੇਦੁਸਟਦੁਖਦਾਈ॥ dhieet rache dhusaT dhukh dhaiee || When I created the world in the beginning, I created the ignominious and dreadful Daityas. ਤੇਭੁਜਬਲਬਵਰੇਹ੍ਵੈਗਏ॥ te bhuj bal bavare havai ge || ਪੂਜਤਪਰਮਪੁਰਖਰਹਿਗਏ॥੬॥ poojat param purakh reh ge ||6|| Who became mad with power and abandoned the worship of Supreme Purusha.6. ਤੇਹਮਤਮਕਿਤਨਕਮੋਖਾਪੇ॥ te ham tamak tanik mo khaape || ਤਿਨਕੀਠਉਰਦੇਵਤਾਥਾਪੇ॥ tin kee ttaur dhevataa thaape || I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place. ਤੇਭੀਬਲਿਪੂਜਾਉਰਝਾਏ॥ te bhee bal poojaa aurajhaae || ਆਪਨਹੀਪਰਮੇਸਰਕਹਾਏ॥੭॥ aapan hee paramesur kahaae ||7|| They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Omnipotent.7. ਮਹਾਦੇਵਅਚੁੱਤਕਹਾਯੋ॥ mahaadhev achut kahavaayo || ਬਿਸਨਆਪਹੀਕੋਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ॥ bisan aap hee ko ttaharaayo || Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਆਪਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮਬਖਾਨਾ॥ brahamaa aap paarabraham bakhaanaa || ਪ੍ਰਭਕੋਪ੍ਰਭੂਨਕਿਨਹੂੰਜਾਨਾ॥੮॥ prabh ko prabhoo na kinahoo(n) jaanaa ||8|| Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8. ਤਬਸਾਖੀਪ੍ਰਭਅਸਟਬਨਾਏ॥ tab saakhee prabh asaT banaae || ਸਾਖਨਮਿਤਦੇਬੇਠਹਿਰਾਏ॥ saakh namit dhebe ttahiraae || Then I created eight Sakshis in order to give evidence of my Entity. ਤੇਕਹੈਕਰੋਹਮਾਰੀਪੂਜਾ॥ te kahai karo hamaaree poojaa || ਹਮਬਿਨਅਵਰੁਨਠਾਕੁਰੁਦੂਜਾ॥੯॥ ham bin avar na ttaakur dhoojaa ||9|| But they considered themselves all in all and asked the people to worship them.9. ਪਰਮਤੱਤਕੋਜਿਨਨਪਛਾਨਾ॥ param tat ko jin na pachhaanaa || ਤਿਨਕਰਿਈਸਰਤਿਨਕਹੁਮਾਨਾ॥ tin kar ieesur tin kahu maanaa || Those who did not comprehend the Lord, they were considered as Ishvara. ਕੇਤੇਸੂਰਚੰਦਕਹੁਮਾਨੈ॥ kete soor cha(n)dh kahu maanai || ਅਗਨਿਹੋਤ੍ਰਕਈਪਵਨਪ੍ਰਮਾਨੈ॥੧੦॥ aganahotr kiee pavan pramaanai ||10|| Several people worshipped the sun and the moon and several others worshipped Fire and Ait.10. ਕਿਨਹੂੰਪ੍ਰਭੁਪਾਹਨਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ॥ kinahoo(n) prabh paahin pahichaanaa || ਨ੍ਹਾਤਕਿਤੇਜਲਕਰਤਬਿਧਾਨਾ॥ nrahaat kite jal karat bidhaanaa || Several of them considered God as stone and several others bathed considering the Lordship of Water. ਕੇਤਿਕਕਰਮਕਰਤਡਰਪਾਨਾ॥ ketik karam karat ddarapaanaa || ਧਰਮਰਾਜਕੋਧਰਮਪਛਾਨਾ॥੧੧॥ dharam raaj ko dharam pachhaanaa ||11|| Considering Dharmaraja as the Supreme representative of Dharma, several bore fear of him in their actions. 11. ਜੋਪ੍ਰਭਸਾਖਨਮਿਤਠਹਿਰਾਏ॥ je prabh saakh namit ttaharaae || ਤੇਹਿਆਂਆਇਪ੍ਰਭੂਕਹਵਾਏ॥ te hiaa(n) aai prabhoo kahavaae || All those whom God established for the revelation of His Supremacy, they themselves were called Supreme. ਤਾਕੀਬਾਤਬਿਸਰਜਾਤੀਭੀ॥ taa kee baat bisar jaatee bhee || ਅਪਨੀਅਪਨੀਪਰਤਸੋਭਭੀ॥੧੨॥ apanee apanee parat sobh bhee ||12|| They forgot the Lord in their race for supremacy. 12 ਜਬਪ੍ਰਭਕੋਨਤਿਨੈਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ॥ jab prabh ko na tinai pahichaanaa || ਤਬਹਰਿਇਨਮਨੁਛਨਠਹਿਰਾਨਾ॥ tab har in manuchhan ttaharaanaa || When they did not comprehend the Lord, then I established human beings in their place. ਤੇਭੀਬਸਿਮਮਤਾਹੁਇਗਏ॥ te bhee bas mamataa hui ge || ਪਰਮੇਸਰਪਾਹਨਠਹਿਰਏ॥੧੩॥ paramesur paahan ttahare ||13|| They also were overpowered by ‘mineness’ and exhibited the Lord in statues.13. ਤਬਹਰਿਸਿੱਧਸਾਧਠਹਿਰਾਏ॥ tab har sidh saadh ttahiraae || ਤਿਨਭੀਪਰਮਪੁਰਖਨਹੀਪਾਏ॥ tin bhee param purakh neh paae || Then I created Siddhas and sadhs, who also could not realize the Lord. ਜੇਕੋਈਹੋਤਭਯੋਜਗਿਸਿਆਨਾ॥ je koiee hot bhayo jag siaanaa || ਤਿਨਤਿਨਅਪਨੋਪੰਥੁਚਲਾਨਾ॥੧੪॥ tin tin apano pa(n)th chalaanaa ||14|| On whomsoever wisdom dawned, he started his own path. 14. ਪਰਮਪੁਰਖਕਿਨਹੂੰਨਹਪਾਯੋ॥ param purakh kinahoo(n) neh paayo || ਬੈਰਬਾਦਅਹੰਕਾਰਬਢਾਯੋ॥ bair baadh ha(n)kaar baddaayo || None could realise the Supreme Lord, but instead spread strife, enmity and ego. ਪੇਡਪਾਤਆਪਨਤੇਜਲੈ॥ pedd paat aapan te jalai || ਪ੍ਰਭਕੈਪੰਥਨਕੋਊਚਲੈ॥੧੫॥ prabh kai pa(n)th na kouoo chalai ||15|| The tree and the leaves began to burn, because of the inner fire.None followed the path of the Lord.15. ਜਿਨਿਜਿਨਿਤਨਿਕਸਿੱਧਕੋਪਾਯੋ॥ jin jin tanik sidh ko paayo || ਤਿਨਤਿਨਅਪਨਾਰਾਹੁਚਲਾਯੋ॥ tin tin apanaa raahu chalaayo || Whosoever attained a little spiritual power, he started his own path. ਪਰਮੇਸਰਨਕਿਨਹੂੰਪਹਿਚਾਨਾ॥ paramesur na kinahoo(n) pahichaanaa || ਮਮਉਚਾਰਤੇਭਯੋਦਿਵਾਨਾ॥੧੬॥ mam auchaar te bhayo dhivaanaa ||16|| None could comprehend the Lord, but instead became mad with ‘I-ness’.16. ਪਰਮਤੱਤਕਿਨਹੂੰਨਪਛਾਨਾ॥ param tat kinahoo(n) na pachhaanaa || ਆਪਆਪਭੀਤਰਿਉਰਝਾਨਾ॥ aap aap bheetar aurajhaanaa || Nobody recognized the Supreme Essence, but was entangled within himself. ਤਬਜੇਜੇਰਿਖਰਾਜਬਨਾਏ॥ tab je je rikh raaj banaae || ਤਿਨਆਪਨਪੁਨਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਚਲਾਏ॥੧੭॥ tin aapan pun si(n)mirat chalaae ||17|| All the great rishis (sages), who were then created, produced their own Smritis.17. ਜੇਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨਕੇਭਏਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ॥ je si(n)mratan ke bhe anuraagee || ਤਿਨਿਤਿਨਿਕ੍ਰਿਆਬ੍ਰਹਮਕੀਤਿਆਗੀ॥ tin tin kiraa braham kee tiaagee || All those who became followers of these smritis, they abandoned the path of the Lord. ਜਿਨਮਨਹਰਿਚਰਨਨਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ॥ jin man har charanan ttaharaayo || ਸੋਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨਕੇਰਾਹਨਆਯੋ॥੧੮॥ so si(n)miratan ke raeh na aayo ||18|| Those who devoted themselves to the Feet of the Lord, they did not adopt the path of the Smritis.18. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਚਾਰਹੀਬੇਦਬਨਾਏ॥ brahamaa chaar hee bedh banaae || ਸਰਬਲੋਕਤਿਹਕਰਮਚਲਾਏ॥ sarab lok teh karam chalaae || Brahma composed all the four Vedas, all the people followed the injunctions contained in them. ਜਿਨਕੀਲਿਵਹਰਿਚਰਨਨਲਾਗੀ॥ jin kee liv har charanan laagee || ਤੇਬੇਦਨਤੇਭਏਤਿਆਗੀ॥੧੯॥ te bedhan te bhe tiaagee ||19|| Those who were devoted to the Feet of the Lord, they abandoned the Vedas.19. ਜਿਨਮਤਬੇਦਕਤੇਬਨਤਿਆਗੀ॥ jin mat bedh kateban tiaagee || ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮਕੇਭੇਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ॥ paarabraham ke bhe anuraagee || Those who abandoned the path of the Vedas and Katebs, they became the devotees of the Lord. ਤਿਨਕੇਗੂੜਮੱਤਜੇਚਲਹੀ॥ tin ke gooR mat je chalahee || ਭਾਂਤਿਅਨੇਕਦੁਖਨਸੋਦਲਹੀ॥੨੦॥ bhaat anek dhookh so dhalahee ||20|| Whosoever follows their path, he crushes various types of sufferings.20. ਜੇਜੇਸਹਿਤਜਾਤਨਸੰਦੇਹਿ॥ je je sahit jaatan sa(n)dheh || ਪ੍ਰਭਕੇਸੰਗਿਨਛੋਡਤਨੇਹ॥ prabh ke sa(n)g na chhoddat neh || Those who consider the castes illusory, they do not abandon the love of the Lord. ਤੇਤੇਪਰਮਪੁਰੀਕਹਜਾਹੀ॥ te te param puree keh jaahee || ਤਿਨਹਰਿਸਿਉਅੰਤਰੁਕਛੁਨਾਹੀਂ॥੨੧॥ tin har siau a(n)tar kichh naahee ||21|| When they leave the world, they go to the abode of the Lord, and there is no difference between them and the Lord.21. ਜੇਜੇਜੀਯਜਾਤਨਤੇਡਰੇ॥ je je jeey jaatan te ddare || ਪਰਮਪੁਰਖਤਜਿਤਿਨਮਗਪਰੈ॥ param purakh taj tin mag pare || Those who fear the castes and follow their path, abandoning the Supreme Lord. ਤੇਤੇਨਰਕਕੁੰਡਮੋਪਰਹੀ॥ te te narak ku(n)dd mo parahee || ਬਾਰਬਾਰਜਗਮੋਬਪੁਧਰਹੀ॥੨੨॥ baar baar jag mo bap dharahee ||22|| They fall into hell and transmigrate again and again.22. ਤਬਹਰਿਬਹੁਰਿਦੱਤਉਪਜਾਇਓ॥ tab har bahur dhat aupajaio || ਤਿਨਭੀਅਪਨਾਪੰਥੁਚਲਾਇਓ॥ tin bhee apanaa pa(n)th chalaio || Then I created Dutt, who also started his own path. ਕਰਮੋਨਖਸਿਰਜਟਾਸਵਾਰੀ॥ kar mo nakh sir jaTaa savaaree || ਪ੍ਰਭਕੀਕ੍ਰਿਆਨਕਛੂਬਿਚਾਰੀ॥੨੩॥ prabh kee kiraa kachh na bichaaree ||23|| His followers have long nails on their hands and matted hair on their heads . They did not understand the ways of the Lord.23 ਪੁਨਿਹਰਿਗੋਰਖਕੋਉਪਰਾਜਾ॥ pun har gorakh ko auparaajaa || ਸਿੱਖਕਰੇਤਿਨਹੰੂਬਡਰਾਜਾ॥ sikh kare tin hoo badd raajaa || Then I created Gorakh, who made great kings his disciples. ਸ੍ਰਵਨਫਾਰਿਮੁਦ੍ਰਾਦੁਐਡਾਰੀ॥ sravan faar mudhraa dhuaai ddaaree || ਹਰਿਕੀਪ੍ਰਤਿਰੀਤਿਨਬਿਚਾਰੀ॥੨੪॥ har kee prat reet na bichaaree ||24|| His disciples wear rings in their ears and do not know the love of the lord.24. ਪੁਨਿਹਰਿਰਾਮਾਨੰਦਕੋਕਰਾ॥ pun har raamaana(n)dh ko karaa || ਭੇਸਬੈਰਾਗੀਕੋਜਿਨਧਰਾ॥ bhes bairaagee ko jin dharaa || Then I created Ramanand, who adopted the path of Bairagi. ਕੰਠੀਕੰਠਿਕਾਠਕੀਡਾਰੀ॥ ka(n)ttee ka(n)tt kaatt kee ddaaree || ਪ੍ਰਭਕੀਕ੍ਰਿਆਨਕਛੂਬਿਚਾਰੀ॥੨੫॥ prabh kee kiraa na kachhoo bichaaree ||25|| Around his neck he wore necklace of wooden beads and did not comprehend the ways of the Lord.25. ਜੇਪ੍ਰਭੁਪਰਮਪੁਰਖਉਪਜਾਏ॥ je prabh param purakh aupajaae || ਤਿਨਤਿਨਅਪਨੇਰਾਹਚਲਾਏ॥ tin tin apane raeh chalaae || All the great Purushas created by me started their own paths. ਮਹਾਦੀਨਤਬਪ੍ਰਭਉਪਰਾਜਾ॥ mahaadheen tab prabh auparaajaa || ਅਰਬਦੇਸਕੋਕੀਨੋਰਾਜਾ॥੨੬॥ arab dhes ko keeno raajaa ||26|| Then I created Muhammed, who was made the master of Arabia.26. ਤਿਨਭੀਏਕੁਪੰਥੁਉਪਰਾਜਾ॥ tin bhee ek pa(n)th auparaajaa || ਲਿੰਗਬਿਨਾਕੀਨੇਸਭਰਾਜਾ॥ li(n)g binaa keene sabh raajaa || He started a religion and circumcised all the kings. ਸਭਤੇਅਪਨਾਨਾਮੁਜਪਾਯੋ॥ sabh te apanaa naam japaayo || ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁਕਾਹੂੰਨਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਯੋ॥੨੭॥ sat naam kaahoo(n) na dhiraRaayo ||27|| He caused all to utter his name and did not give True Name of the Lord with firmness to anyone.27. ਸਭਅਪਨੀਅਪਨੀਉਰਝਾਨਾ॥ sabh apanee apanee aurajhaanaa || ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮਕਾਹੂਨਪਛਾਨਾ॥ paarabraham kaahoo(n) na pachhaanaa || Everyone placed his own interest first and foremost and did not comprehend the Supreme Brahman. ਤਪਸਾਧਤਹਰਿਮੋਹਿਬੁਲਾਯੋ॥ tap saadhat har moh bulaayo || ਇਮਕਹਿਕੈਇਹਲੋਕਪਠਾਯੋ॥੨੮॥ eim keh kai ieh lok pattaayo ||28|| When I was busy in the austere devotion, the Lord called me and sent me to this world with the following words.28. Guru Gobind Singh Ji in Bachithr Naatak - 57 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 ਚੌਪਈ॥ chauapiee || CHAUPAI ਇਹਕਾਰਨਿਪ੍ਰਭਮੋਹਿਪਠਾਯੋ॥ eeh kaaran prabh moh pattaayo || For this reason the Lord sent me. ਤਬਮੈਜਗਤਜਨਮਧਰਿਆਯੋ॥ tab mai jagat janam dhar aayo || And then I was born into this world. ਜਿਮਤਿਨਕਹੀਤਿਨੈਤਿਮਕਹਿਹੋਂ॥ jim tin kahee inai tim kahihau || Whatever the Lord said, I am repeating the same unto you. ਅਉਰਕਿਸੂਤੇਬੈਰਨਗਹਿਹੋਂ॥੩੧॥ aaur kis te bair na gahihau ||31|| I do not bear enmity towards anyone. 31. ਜੋਹਮਕੋਪਰਮੇਸਰਉਚਰਿਹੈਂ॥ jo ham ko paramesur auchar hai || Whosoever shall call me the Lord, ਤੇਸਭਨਰਕਕੁੰਡਮਹਿਪਰਿਹੈਂ॥ te sabh narak ku(n)dd meh par hai || shall all fall into the pits of hell. ਮੋਕੌਦਾਸਤਵਨਕਾਜਾਨੋ॥ mo ko dhaas tavan kaa jaano || Consider me the servant of the Transcendent Lord. ਯਾਮੈਭੇਦਨਰੰਚਪਛਾਨੋ॥੩੨॥ yaa mai bhedh na ra(n)ch pachhaano ||32|| Do not think of any difference between me and Him. 32. ਮੈਹੋਪਰਮਪੁਰਖਕੋਦਾਸਾ॥ mai ho param purakh ko dhaasaa || I am the servant of the Supreme Being. ਦੇਖਨਆਯੋਜਗਤਤਮਾਸਾ॥ dhekhan aayo jagat tamaasaa || I have come to see the spectacle of the world. ਜੋਪ੍ਰਭਜਗਤਿਕਹਾਸੋਕਹਿਹੋਂ॥ jo prabh jagat kahaa so keh ho || Whatever the Lord of the world said, ਮ੍ਰਿਤਲੋਕਤੇਮੋਨਨਰਹਿਹੋਂ॥੩੩॥ mirat log te mon na reh ho ||33|| I say the same unto you, I cannot remain silent in this abode of death. 33. Guru Gobind Singh Ji in Bachithr Naatak - 58 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 Sorry bro. In a rush working. Didn't mean to come off as short. Something listening to people debate God a lot is making me sensitive to maligning another faiths God. Because in monotheism... that's uh your God too. And while the Biblical God as presented has a hand in some harsh things like a global flood... Akal Purakh takes responsibility far deeper than that. Our Gurbani is just beautiful about it... ਆਪੇਥਾਪਿਉਥਾਪੇਵੇਖੈਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਆਪਿਬੁਝਾਇਦਾ॥੧੪॥ aape thaap authaape vekhai guramukh aap bujhaidhaa ||14|| He Himself establishes and disestablishes, and watches over all; He reveals Himself to the Gurmukh. ||14|| Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Maaroo - 1061 By your logic "our God" wouldn't cut it for you either bro. That's what I mean by read and be careful. Islam for example is a horrible made up mess, but I try to stay mindful of the muslims being humans, tidbits of the quran perhaps correct, and try not to shame the name allah even with its murky origins. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 ਮਾਰੂਮਹਲਾ੩॥ maaroo mahalaa teejaa || Maaroo, Third Mehla: ਆਦਿਜੁਗਾਦਿਦਇਆਪਤਿਦਾਤਾ॥ aadh jugaadh dhiaapat dhaataa || From the very beginning of time, and throughout the ages, the Merciful Lord has been the Great Giver. ਪੂਰੇਗੁਰਕੈਸਬਦਿਪਛਾਤਾ॥ poore gur kai sabadh pachhaataa || Through the Shabad, the Word of the Perfect Guru, He is realized. ਤੁਧੁਨੋਸੇਵਹਿਸੇਤੁਝਹਿਸਮਾਵਹਿਤੂਆਪੇਮੇਲਿਮਿਲਾਇਦਾ॥੧॥ tudhuno seveh se tujheh samaaveh too aape mel milaidhaa ||1|| Those who serve You are immersed in You. You unite them in Union with Yourself. ||1|| ਅਗਮਅਗੋਚਰੁਕੀਮਤਿਨਹੀਪਾਈ॥ agam agochar keemat nahee paiee || You are inaccessible and unfathomable; Your limits cannot be found. ਜੀਅਜੰਤਤੇਰੀਸਰਣਾਈ॥ jeea ja(n)t teree saranaiee || All beings and creatures seek Your Sanctuary. ਜਿਉਤੁਧੁਭਾਵੈਤਿਵੈਚਲਾਵਹਿਤੂਆਪੇਮਾਰਗਿਪਾਇਦਾ॥੨॥ jiau tudh bhaavai tivai chalaaveh too aape maarag paidhaa ||2|| As is pleases Your Will, You guide us along; You Yourself place us on the Path. ||2|| ਹੈਭੀਸਾਚਾਹੋਸੀਸੋਈ॥ hai bhee saachaa hosee soiee || The True Lord is, and shall always be. ਆਪੇਸਾਜੇਅਵਰੁਨਕੋਈ॥ aape saaje avar na koiee || He Himself creates - there is no other at all. ਸਭਨਾਸਾਰਕਰੇਸੁਖਦਾਤਾਆਪੇਰਿਜਕੁਪਹੁਚਾਇਦਾ॥੩॥ sabhanaa saar kare sukhadhaataa aape rijak pahuchaidhaa ||3|| The Giver of peace takes care of all; He Himself sustains them. ||3|| ਅਗਮਅਗੋਚਰੁਅਲਖਅਪਾਰਾ॥ agam agochar alakh apaaraa || You are inaccessible, unfathomable, invisible and infinite; ਕੋਇਨਜਾਣੈਤੇਰਾਪਰਵਾਰਾ॥ koi na jaanai teraa paravaaraa || no one knows Your extent. ਆਪਣਾਆਪੁਪਛਾਣਹਿਆਪੇਗੁਰਮਤੀਆਪਿਬੁਝਾਇਦਾ॥੪॥ aapanaa aap pachhaaneh aape guramatee aap bujhaidhaa ||4|| You Yourself realize Yourself. Through the Guru's Teachings, You reveal Yourself. ||4|| ਪਾਤਾਲਪੁਰੀਆਲੋਅਆਕਾਰਾ॥ਤਿਸੁਵਿਚਿਵਰਤੈਹੁਕਮੁਕਰਾਰਾ॥ paataal pureeaa loa aakaaraa || tis vich varatai hukam karaaraa || Your Almighty Command prevails throughout the nether worlds, realms and worlds of form. ਹੁਕਮੇਸਾਜੇਹੁਕਮੇਢਾਹੇਹੁਕਮੇਮੇਲਿਮਿਲਾਇਦਾ॥੫॥ hukame saaje hukame ddaahe hukame mel milaidhaa ||5|| By the Hukam of Your Command, You create, and by Your Command, You destroy. By Your Command, You unite in Union. ||5|| ਹੁਕਮੈਬੂਝੈਸੁਹੁਕਮੁਸਲਾਹੇ॥ hukamai boojhai su hukam salaahe || One who realizes Your Command, praises Your Command. ਅਗਮਅਗੋਚਰਵੇਪਰਵਾਹੇ॥ agam agochar veparavaahe || You are Inaccessible, Unfathomable and Self-Sufficient. ਜੇਹੀਮਤਿਦੇਹਿਸੋਹੋਵੈਤੂਆਪੇਸਬਦਿਬੁਝਾਇਦਾ॥੬॥ jehee mat dheh so hovai too aape sabadh bujhaidhaa ||6|| As is the understanding You give, so do I become. You Yourself reveal the Shabad. ||6|| ਅਨਦਿਨੁਆਰਜਾਛਿਜਦੀਜਾਏ॥ anadhin aarajaa chhijadhee jaae || Night and day, the days of our lives wear away. ਰੈਣਿਦਿਨਸੁਦੁਇਸਾਖੀਆਏ॥ rain dhinas dhui saakhee aae || Night and day both bear witness to this loss. ਮਨਮੁਖੁਅੰਧੁਨਚੇਤੈਮੂੜਾਸਿਰਊਪਰਿਕਾਲੁਰੂਆਇਦਾ॥੭॥ manamukh a(n)dh na chetai mooRaa sir uoopar kaal rooaaidhaa ||7|| The blind, foolish, self-willed manmukh is not aware of this; death is hovering over his head. ||7|| ਮਨੁਤਨੁਸੀਤਲੁਗੁਰਚਰਣੀਲਾਗਾ॥ man tan seetal gur charanee laagaa || The mind and body are cooled and soothed, holding tight to the Guru's Feet. ਅੰਤਰਿਭਰਮੁਗਇਆਭਉਭਾਗਾ॥ a(n)tar bharam giaa bhau bhaagaa || Doubt is eliminated from within, and fear runs away. ਸਦਾਅਨੰਦੁਸਚੇਗੁਣਗਾਵਹਿਸਚੁਬਾਣੀਬੋਲਾਇਦਾ॥੮॥ sadhaa ana(n)dh sache gun gaaveh sach baanee bolaidhaa ||8|| One is in bliss forever, singing the Glorious Praises of the True Lord, and speaking the True Word of His Bani. ||8|| ਜਿਨਿਤੂਜਾਤਾਕਰਮਬਿਧਾਤਾ॥ jin too jaataa karam bidhaataa || One who knows You as the Architect of Karma, ਪੂਰੈਭਾਗਿਗੁਰਸਬਦਿਪਛਾਤਾ॥ poorai bhaag gur sabadh pachhaataa || has the good fortune of perfect destiny, and recognizes the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ਜਤਿਪਤਿਸਚੁਸਚਾਸਚੁਸੋਈਹਉਮੈਮਾਰਿਮਿਲਾਇਦਾ॥੯॥ jat pat sach sachaa sach soiee haumai maar milaidhaa ||9|| The Lord, the Truest of the True, is his social class and honor. Conquering his ego, he is united with the Lord. ||9|| ਮਨੁਕਠੋਰੁਦੂਜੈਭਾਇਲਾਗਾ॥ man kattor dhoojai bhai laagaa || The stubborn and insensitive mind is attached to the love of duality. ਭਰਮੇਭੂਲਾਫਿਰੈਅਭਾਗਾ॥ bharame bhoolaa firai abhaagaa || Deluded by doubt, the unfortunate wander around in confusion. ਕਰਮੁਹੋਵੈਤਾਸਤਿਗੁਰੁਸੇਵੇਸਹਜੇਹੀਸੁਖੁਪਾਇਦਾ॥੧੦॥ karam hovai taa satigur seve sahaje hee sukh paidhaa ||10|| But if they are blessed by God's Grace, they serve the True Guru, and easily obtain peace. ||10|| ਲਖਚਉਰਾਸੀਹਆਪਿਉਪਾਏ॥ lakh chauraaseeh aap aupaae || He Himself created the 8.4 million species of beings. ਮਾਨਸਜਨਮਿਗੁਰਭਗਤਿਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ॥ maanas janam gur bhagat dhiraRaae || Only in this human life, is devotional worship to the Guru implanted within. ਬਿਨੁਭਗਤੀਬਿਸਟਾਵਿਚਿਵਾਸਾਬਿਸਟਾਵਿਚਿਫਿਰਿਪਾਇਦਾ॥੧੧॥ bin bhagatee bisaTaa vich vaasaa bisaTaa vich fir paidhaa ||11|| Without devotion, one lives in manure; he falls into manure again and again. ||11|| ਕਰਮੁਹੋਵੈਗੁਰੁਭਗਤਿਦ੍ਰਿੜਾਏ॥ karam hovai gur bhagat dhiraRaae || If one is blessed with His Grace, devotional worship to the Guru is implanted within. ਵਿਣੁਕਰਮਾਕਿਉਪਾਇਆਜਾਏ॥ vin karamaa kiau paiaa jaae || Without God's Grace, how can anyone find Him? ਆਪੇਕਰੇਕਰਾਏਕਰਤਾਜਿਉਭਾਵੈਤਿਵੈਚਲਾਇਦਾ॥੧੨॥ aape kare karaae karataa jiau bhaavai tivai chalaidhaa ||12|| The Creator Himself acts, and inspires all to act; as He wills, he leads us on. ||12|| ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿਸਾਸਤਅੰਤੁਨਜਾਣੈ॥ simirat saasat a(n)t na jaanai || The Simritees and the Shaastras do not know His limits. ਮੂਰਖੁਅੰਧਾਤਤੁਨਪਛਾਣੈ॥ moorakh a(n)dhaa tat na pachhaanai || The blind fool does not recognize the essence of reality. ਆਪੇਕਰੇਕਰਾਏਕਰਤਾਆਪੇਭਰਮਿਭੁਲਾਇਦਾ॥੧੩॥ aape kare karaae karataa aape bharam bhulaidhaa ||13|| The Creator Himself acts, and inspires all to act; He Himself deludes with doubt. ||13|| ਸਭੁਕਿਛੁਆਪੇਆਪਿਕਰਾਏ॥ sabh kichh aape aap karaae || He Himself causes everything to be done. ਆਪੇਸਿਰਿਸਿਰਿਧੰਧੈਲਾਏ॥ aape sir sir dha(n)dhai laae || He Himself joins each and every person to his tasks. ਆਪੇਥਾਪਿਉਥਾਪੇਵੇਖੈਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਆਪਿਬੁਝਾਇਦਾ॥੧੪॥ aape thaap authaape vekhai guramukh aap bujhaidhaa ||14|| He Himself establishes and disestablishes, and watches over all; He reveals Himself to the Gurmukh. ||14|| ਸਚਾਸਾਹਿਬੁਗਹਿਰਗੰਭੀਰਾ॥ sachaa saahib gahir ga(n)bheeraa || The True Lord and Master is profoundly deep and unfathomable. ਸਦਾਸਲਾਹੀਤਾਮਨੁਧੀਰਾ॥ sadhaa salaahee taa man dheeraa || Praising Him forever, the mind is comforted and consoled. ਅਗਮਅਗੋਚਰੁਕੀਮਤਿਨਹੀਪਾਈਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਮੰਨਿਵਸਾਇਦਾ॥੧੫॥ agam agochar keemat nahee paiee guramukh ma(n)n vasaidhaa ||15|| He is inaccessible and unfathomable; His value cannot be estimated. He dwells in the mind of the Gurmukh. ||15|| ਆਪਿਨਿਰਾਲਮੁਹੋਰਧੰਧੈਲੋਈ॥ aap niraalam hor dha(n)dhai loiee || He Himself is detached; all others are entangled in their affairs. ਗੁਰਪਰਸਾਦੀਬੂਝੈਕੋਈ॥ gur parasaadhee boojhai koiee || By Guru's Grace, one comes to understand Him. ਨਾਨਕਨਾਮੁਵਸੈਘਟਅੰਤਰਿਗੁਰਮਤੀਮੇਲਿਮਿਲਾਇਦਾ॥੧੬॥੩॥੧੭॥ naanak naam vasai ghaT a(n)tar guramatee mel milaidhaa ||16||3||17|| O Nanak, the Naam, the Name of the Lord, comes to dwell deep within the heart; through the Guru's Teachings, one is united in His Union. ||16||3||17|| Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Maaroo - 1061 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inderpal1994 Posted September 5, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 You've gotten way too sensitive about my post/topic. I'm asking about opinions on how we speak and see Parmatma based on dharmic compared to the Abrahmic understanding of Parmatma. Also, don't try to end this topic when I'm looking for views and opinions. If this how the conversation is gonna go, than I will leave the topic open for others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, Inderpal1994 said: You've gotten way too sensitive about my post/topic. I'm asking about opinions on how we speak and see Parmatma based on dharmic compared to the Abrahmic understanding of Parmatma. Also, don't try to end this topic when I'm looking for views and opinions. If this how the conversation is gonna go, than I will leave the topic open for others. That's God you're talking about bro is the only thing. Not the Abrahamic God. 1. And the criticisms you levied against God in that name apply to Akal Purakh. I'm saying don't light yourself on fire trying to recreate it. There are very established opinion thousands of years old, debated ever since. I gave you Gurbani and my opinion, feel free to opinion poll. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 And the anawer is in the Gurbani. Why no thoughts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnySingh Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 On 9/4/2022 at 11:17 PM, Inderpal1994 said: Whenever I read people post about Akaal Purakh, or when I read the translation (which we use) about Akaal Purakh. I keep getting this vibe of a sky god. And the way we speak of Akaal Purakh is not as a ultimate supreme entity that lives within each of us, and everything, but instead it sounds more like the way the Abrahamic's speak about God. Are we still stuck with the mentality of the colonisers, in which we had to speak their language and interpret/frame gurmat to fit the understanding of the colonisers? Please share your views and opinions. Hi Bro, What you ask or comment(state of confusion, doubts) is not happening with you only, but I would say with many people, though they do not express it, be it for any reason, but thankfully you have the courage and "namrata" to ask. Now having said that, and trying to give you satisfying answers, let us turn to the Ocean of Truth and wisdom of the pure Gurbani. Right from the first verses, Sree Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj beautifuly yet with clarity and simplicity describes us that Oankar, that Supreme Creative Power, Ultimate Truth, as NAM, and adds to it the prefix SAT, which makes it Satnam, and that which means, the everlasting and changeless formless Truth. Words can never ever describe in any way, that unfathomable Truth, which is beyond any description, to which even the deities and gods fail to know, so what to say about us mere petty and dumb human beings. This concept of Parmatma or God by Guru Sahiban, is the True description of God, of whom they the are the embodiment, has nothing to do with the Abrahimic god as per the fancy imagination of anybody, except Guru Sahiban, Gurmukh and Sant Jan. My suggestion is, read whatsoever you want as knowledge, but keep in mind that the description of Truth and the path leading to that Truth/Satnam, is only possible through the teachings of Guru Jee. In that sense the Bani says: Satgur bajoh hor kachee hae Bani. Mat koee bharam bhoolay sansaar, bin Satgur koee na utras paar. So, if we know our life is short and uncertain, why not use the priceless time factor in our favour, by gathering the wealth of that Ultimate Truth which will give us salvation and go with us in the world hereafter. Confusion and doubts come into our limited minds, when we look here and there where there is only agyanta, but not to the teachings of Guru Sahiban, the path, the Truth, for all humanity is universal at all times, whether past, present or future, for the Truth they talk about, is beyond the limitations of time and space. Stay blessed. SSA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 Theres only one God. Not any simpler than that. Gurbani couldn't be clearer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 The brother asked how they are different. Any Gurbani? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 5, 2022 Report Share Posted September 5, 2022 ਏਕੋਅਲਹੁਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ॥੫॥੩੪॥੪੫॥ eko alahu paarabraham ||5||34||45|| The Muslim God Allah and the Hindu God Paarbrahm are one and the same. ||5||34||45|| Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Raamkalee - 897 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 ੴਸਤਿਨਾਮੁਕਰਤਾਪੁਰਖੁਨਿਰਭਉਨਿਰਵੈਰੁਅਕਾਲਮੂਰਤਿਅਜੂਨੀਸੈਭੰਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ॥ ikOankaar sat naam karataa purakh nirabhau niravair akaal moorat ajoonee saibha(n) gur prasaadh || Genesis 1:1 New International Version The Beginning 1 In the beginning(A) God created(B) the heavens(C) and the earth.(D) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 King James Version 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. ਅਕਾਲਪੁਰਖਬਾਚ॥ akaal purakh baach || The Word of the Non-Temporal Lord: ਚੌਪਈ॥ chauapiee || CHAUPAI ਮੈਅਪਨਾਸੁਤਤੋਹਿਨਿਵਾਜਾ॥ mai apanaa sut toh nivaajaa || ਪੰਥਪ੍ਰਚੁਰਕਰਬੇਕਹੁਸਾਜਾ॥ pa(n)th prachur karabe keh saajaa || I have adopted you as my son and hath created you for the propagation of the path (Panth). ਜਾਹਿਤਹਾਤੈਧਰਮੁਚਲਾਇ॥ jaeh tahaa tai dharam chalai || ਕਬੁਧਿਕਰਨਤੇਲੋਕਹਟਾਇ॥੨੯॥ kabudh karan te lok haTai ||29|| “You go therefore for the spread of Dharma (righteousness) and cause people to retrace their steps from evil actions”.29. Guru Gobind Singh Ji in Bachithr Naatak - 57 ਬੇਦਕਤੇਬਕਹਹੁਮਤਝੂਠੇਝੂਠਾਜੋਨਬਿਚਾਰੈ॥ bedh kateb kahahu mat jhootte jhoottaa jo na bichaarai || Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false. Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Prabhaatee - 1350 Mathew 10:34 - 34Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36A man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’i 37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me; 38and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it (Insert quote I can't find by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj about what he gave.) ਦਰਹਰਦੋਕੌਨਗਰਦਨਿਊਸਰ-ਬੁਲੰਦਸ਼ੁਦ dhar har dho kauan garadhan uoo sara-bula(n)dh shudh Any one who rushes towards the crucifix like Mansoor Bhai Nand Lal Ji in Vaaran ਮਨਸੂਰਵਾਰਹਰਕਿਸੂਇਦਾਰਮੀ-ਰਵਦ॥੨੮॥੫॥ manasoor vaar har k sooi dhaar mee-ravadh || 28 || 5 || Will have his neck and head high with pride in both the worlds. (29) (5) Bhai Nand Lal Ji in Vaaran ਚੌਪਈ॥ chauapiee || CHAUPAI ਜਿਨਜਿਨਨਾਮਤਿਹਾਰੋਧਿਆਇਆ॥ jin jin naam tihaaro dhiaaiaa || ਦੂਖਪਾਪਤਿਹਨਿਕਟਨਆਇਆ॥ dhookh paap tin nikaT na aaiaa || Those who mediated on the Name of the Lord, none of the sorrows and sins came near them. ਜੇਜੇਅਉਰਧਿਆਨਕੋਧਰਹੀਂ॥ je je aaur dhiaan ko dharahee || ਬਹਿਸਬਹਿਸਬਾਦਨਤੇਮਰਹੀਂ॥੪੧॥ bahis bahis baadhan te marahee ||41|| Those who meditated on any other entity, they ended themselves in futile discussions and quarrels.41. ਹਮਇਹਕਾਜਜਗਤਮੋਆਏ॥ ham ieh kaaj jagat mo aae || ਧਰਮਹੇਤਗੁਰਦੇਵਪਠਾਏ॥ dharam het guradhev pattaae || I have been sent into this world by the Preceptor-Lord to propagate Dharma (righteousness). ਜਹਾਤਹਾਤੁਮਧਰਮਬਿਥਾਰੋ॥ jahaa tahaa tum dharam bithaaro || ਦੁਸਟਦੋਖੀਅਨਿਪਕਰਿਪਛਾਰੋ॥੪੨॥ dhusaT dhokhayan pakar pachhaaro ||42|| The Lord asked me to spread Dharma, and vanquish the tyrants and evil-minded persons. 42. ਯਾਹੀਕਾਜਧਰਾਹਮਜਨਮੰ॥ yaahee kaaj dharaa ham janama(n) || ਸਮਝਲੇਹੁਸਾਧੂਸਭਮਨਮੰ॥ samajh leh saadhoo sabh manama(n) || I have taken birth of this purpose, the saints should comprehend this in their minds. ਧਰਮਚਲਾਵਨਸੰਤਉਬਾਰਨ॥ dharam chalaavan sa(n)t aubaaran || ਦੁਸਟਸਭਨਕੋਮੂਲਉਪਾਰਨ॥੪੩॥ dhusaT sabhan ko mool aupaarin ||43|| (I have been born) to spread Dharma, and protect saints, and root out tyrants and evil-minded persons.43. ਜੇਜੇਭਏਪਹਿਲਅਵਤਾਰਾ॥ je je bhe pahil avataaraa || ਆਪੁਆਪੁਤਿਨਜਾਪੁਉਚਾਰਾ॥ aap aap tin jaap auchaaraa || All the earlier incarnations caused only their names to be remembered. ਪ੍ਰਭਦੋਖੀਕੋਈਨਬਿਦਾਰਾ॥ prabh dhokhee koiee na bidhaaraa || ਧਰਮਕਰਨਕੋਰਾਹੁਨਡਾਰਾ॥੪੪॥ dharam karan ko raahu na ddaaraa ||44|| They did not strike the tyrants and did not make them follow th path of Dharma.44. ਜੇਜੇਗਉਸਅੰਬੀਆਭਏ॥ je je gaus a(n)beeaa bhe || ਮੈਮੈਕਰਤਜਗਤਤੇਗਏ॥ mai mai karat jagat te ge || All the earlier prophets ended themselves in ego. ਮਹਾਪੁਰਖਕਾਹੂਨਪਛਾਨਾ॥ mahaapurakh kaahoo(n) na pachhaanaa || ਕਰਮਧਰਮਕੋਕਛੂਨਜਾਨਾ॥੪੫॥ karam dharam ko kachhoo na jaanaa ||45|| And did not comprehend the supreme Purusha, they did not care for the righteous actions.45. ਅਵਰਨਕੀਆਸਾਕਿਛੁਨਾਹੀ॥ avaran kee aasaa kichh naahee || ਏਕੈਆਸਧਰੋਮਨਮਾਹੀ॥ ekai aas dharo man maahee || Have no hopes on others, rely only on the ONE Lord. ਆਨਆਸਉਪਜਤਕਿਛੁਨਾਹੀ॥ aan aas aupajat kichh naahee || ਵਾਕੀਆਸਧਰੋਂਮਨਮਾਹੀ॥੪੬॥ vaa kee aas dharo man maahee ||46|| The hopes on others are never fruitful, therefore, keep in your mind the hopes on the ONE Lord.46. Guru Gobind Singh Ji in Bachithr Naatak - 58 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 Also from Sakhis we know God themself take body in Kalyug, that is why Santokh Singh came here from a previous Yugh in his stasis. Also combine Sakhi about Holy Angel form of Akal visiting the construction of Harminder Sahib. Combined with Guru Gobind Singh Ji saying I am not God, don't worship me, then who's this bodied version of God? And in the list of all the failures sent by God, which major spiritual and historical figure is not reprimanded? Only Bhai Gurdas Ji comments they're proud of what they have, the followers of Jesus and Moses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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