Ideal Singh Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 JJJ So that's two people who you have reformed ( sudhar keeta ). Unfortunately you'll always get wishy washy Sikhs here who are probably to scared to stand up against insults to Sikhi themselves so they try and give you the same advice. What these people don't understand is that sometimes you need to crack a few heads to make these people realise that Sikhs aren't the same jokers in real life as the one's portrayed by bollywood. Even a decade ago these Hindu and Muslim jokers would never have tried to make fun of Sikhi but bollywood has brain washed them into thinking that Sikhs will take any insult. You gave that guy a much needed reality check ! Like I wrote before, I'm proud of you man. If only there were more Sikhs like you. I'd much rather have one Sikh like you or Khalsa Soulja or Steel bangle on my side in a fight than a hundred Sardus and Ideal Singhs. GurFateh Bikramjit Oh! Come on Baby! Who the hell wantz to be on your side for bullying around over petty issuez such as these and making jokerz of ourselves ? :arrow: And whatz the use of using this same old tape of Hindu & Muslims saying this and that to Sikhz... In fact people like you are brain washing the simple mentality of Sikhz by continuosly feeding ill will in their mindz against other Religionz. Then whatz the differnce between your religion and theirz if what they do is only breed hatred ? :arrow: You booast so much knowledge of Holy Bookz and History bookz and yet you could not derive a simlpe crux from all these scripturz and that is how to get Peace of Mind... Did actz of "jjj" bring peace of mind to him...? :arrow: May God bless everybody with peace of mind & Serenity... :arrow: Read the following text deligently and patiently... this text has quite a lot to say on this regard about the peole like your thinking... __________________________________________________________ Have a close deep dive into this article... itz so introspecting... worth reading... I personally agree to it... __________________________________________________________ Faith? By Pritpal Singh :arrow: Torn down places of worship, planes being flown into buildings, people being tortured, and this is just recently. Religion has always been used as an excuse for oppression, but to what extent do we really need it anymore? If religion is simply a way to “control the masses†then is it fulfilling its duty by controlling us? I was born into a Sikh family. My parents are baptised, as are my parents’ parents, and so forth. So it wasn’t too much of a surprise when I was baptised. However it was a surprise since it came at the impressionable age of 4. I grew up looking the part. I had all the symbols of faith, and despite not knowing what they meant, I was proud of them. I don’t know why I was proud. It seems so silly now, but I was. “Why do you take pride in trivial matters? ||1|| Why do you say, "’Mine, mine’? Look to God, who has given it to you.†(Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Pg 50, the Guru Granth Sahib) I had just turned 14 when I decided to study my faith, to discover who I was, and to learn the significance of my appearance. Witnessing my father’s faith has been an inspiration to me. He was baptised before I was born and took an active role in the running of the local Gurdwara (the home of the Guru Granth Sahib). On almost every occasion when my father gave a speech, he cried. His words were nothing special to our ears, and yet, whatever he said spoke to him. He never told me why he cried, he couldn’t. When I would ask him, he became silent and on occasion shed a tear. What could he see in his faith that I couldn’t? Why wouldn’t I feel the same? And most importantly why couldn’t he tell me what was so astounding that he couldn’t hold the emotion in? As a result, I decided to read the Guru Granth Sahib. I bowed to it a million and one times. I didn’t know what it said, yet I was supposed to be a khalsa. I was expected to be the embodiment of every principle in the Guru Granth Sahib. :arrow: So I read, and I liked, and eventually…. I loved. I fell in love with it, its beauty, its universalism, and most of all I fell in love with love. The way the Guru Granth Sahib spoke of the brotherhood of man, the way it spoke of rising above the fabrication and falsehood of the world, it spoke to me. :arrow: "In the one and in the many, He is pervading and permeating; wherever I look, there He is. God is everything, God is everything. Without God, there is nothing at all. Just as one thread holds hundreds and thousands of beads, He is woven into His creation. ||1||Pause|| This world is the playful game of the Lord God; reflecting upon it, we find that it is at one with him. ||2|| Says Naam Dayv, see the Creation of the Lord, and reflect upon it in your heart In each and every heart, and deep within the very nucleus of all, is the One Lord. ||4||1||" (Bhagat Namdev, Pg 485, the Guru Granth Sahib) :arrow: They had felt it everywhere; it was all around them, under every stone, in every heart. They felt this force, call it whatever you want: Ram, Allah, Waheguru, love, or a supreme being. Whatever it is, it is there and I have felt it. :arrow: I see this attitude all the time. It is always the same. “Islam says men are better than women and all non Muslims will go to hell,†and “Hindus have millions of Gods and believe in stones and statues.†It was the same lies over and over again. I hated it. It was really troubling me. How could these people even attempt to comment on Islam or Hinduism without ever reading the Quran or Vedas? :arrow: I started questioning the concept of religion. I realised that it all came down to pride. The same pride that I had felt as a child, only it had evolved, and was not the innocence of a child any more. It was egotism and hate. It was simply arrogance. The majority of the religious people on the planet follow the faith they were born into. How can these people be proud of something that they had no say in? It was not up to them which religion they were born into. That was left to chance, kismet or whatever you happen to believe. :arrow: Sikhism is not what I fell in love with. I fell in love with the Guru Granth Sahib, and I believe Sikhism in its present form has nothing to do with the Guru Granth Sahib. So if Sikhism isn’t my religion, then what is? “There is only one religion of Dharam; let everyone grasp this truth†(Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Pg 1188, the Guru Granth Sahib) I don’t need a religion. The people who matter to me already know what I am. I don’t need to play up for anyone else. "There are so many holy shrines in which to bathe, O crazy mind, and so many gods to worship. Says Kabeer, you shall not be saved like this, O crazy mind; only by serving the Lord will you find release. ||4||1||6||57||"(Bhagat Kabir, Pg 336 Guru Granth Sahib) :arrow: So, if I am not a “Sikhâ€, then where does that leave me in regard to my baptism? A baptised person is assumed to be khalsa or “pure.†I don’t think you become a Khalsa just like that, rather I think Khalsa becomes you. Guru Gobind Singh Ji defines a Khalsa: "Blessed is the life of that person in the world, who recites the holy name with his mouth and contemplates war against evil in his mind, He regards the body as a temporary vessel and uses the boat of God to cross the world-ocean, He makes a closet of patience in the body and illuminates the mind with the lamp of divine knowledge, He takes up the broom of wisdom in his hands and sweeps away all tyranny" (Guru Gobind Singh, Sawaiya, Chaubees Avtar) :arrow: I don’t see Khalsa as being a religion. I see it as being a state of mind. I see it as someone who has learned to die while yet living, someone who has risen above the fabrication and falsehood of the world, someone who is in love with the world. That’s what Khalsa is to me, and that’s what I understand as peace. I leave you with the words of an Abraham Joshua Heschel, describing what I understand as Khalsa: - “…. a person who holds God and man in one thought at one time, at all times,who suffers harm done to others, whose greatest passion is compassion, whose greatest strength is love and defiance of despair.†(New York Journal-American, April 5, 1963) My sincerest apologies for any offence taken. _____________________________________________________ What do you think ? Pls Share... Humbly BCM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardu Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Simply Classic Ideal !! Very well said indeed. I can just hope that all our friends here will see it, uderstand it. Idont support beating/fighting, but I can tell you sure that guy is never gonna make an insult against sikhi to any other sikh in his life or is he ever gonna try to catch someone's beard. In the past also one guy was making fun of the "fateh bola" and I scolded and fought with hm so much, not beating thoug.. but i can tell that he is never gonna make fun of sikhs again in his entire life ! lol !! I appriciate and respect ur emotions mate. But, I have something to say. Why we love the Almighty.. Why do I love/appriciate Gurus and Their Teachings... Am i scared? Did they beat me? Did theay beat/threaten anybody? NO na!! Just like this, There are 2 ways to make somebody respect/appriciate you (or ur faith). Threatening .. The "Aurangzeb's way" and love (talking) the other way. Threatening is very effective and fast.. but.. can we justify it? is it real? certainly not bhai. and then there is another way of love, talking etc.. Which is hard to implement.. and require lots of patience etc, but the effect is pure, longlasting and admirable. There are many persons whome u can't handle by love, just ignore them, till they actually phisically harm you. I know.. we all understand this very well. but,why am i saying all this here.... Well.. You are right that they may never say bad about sikhi "in front of you".. but were u able to change them? were u able to give them the right message? r u confident that they won't speak bad abt u and ur religion on ur back? Just imagine that if u were at his place... what would have been ur mentality after being beaten up? They are also human being.. they have also got "EGO"... Veere, Sikhs are known to be great warrior in the history who sacrificed their life for the GOOD of Humanity.. Whenever u face such people, try to talk to them. Teach them.. I am sure these persons are not more than 1% of toal no of person u met or deal with. And When u talk to them, most of them will understand. But yes,still There will be few uneducated, mischievous people.. ignore them.. as much as possible. or till the time they harm u phsically... With Regards Sardu! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 lol !! I appriciate and respect ur emotions mate. But, I have something to say. Why we love the Almighty.. Why do I love/appriciate Gurus and Their Teachings... Am i scared? Did they beat me? Did theay beat/threaten anybody? NO na!! Just like this, There are 2 ways to make somebody respect/appriciate you (or ur faith). Threatening .. The "Aurangzeb's way" and love (talking) the other way. Threatening is very effective and fast.. but.. can we justify it? is it real? certainly not bhai. and then there is another way of love, talking etc.. Which is hard to implement.. and require lots of patience etc, but the effect is pure, longlasting and admirable. There are many persons whome u can't handle by love, just ignore them, till they actually phisically harm you. I know.. we all understand this very well. but,why am i saying all this here.... Well.. You are right that they may never say bad about sikhi "in front of you".. but were u able to change them? were u able to give them the right message? r u confident that they won't speak bad abt u and ur religion on ur back? Just imagine that if u were at his place... what would have been ur mentality after being beaten up? They are also human being.. they have also got "EGO"... Veere, Sikhs are known to be great warrior in the history who sacrificed their life for the GOOD of Humanity.. Whenever u face such people, try to talk to them. Teach them.. I am sure these persons are not more than 1% of toal no of person u met or deal with. And When u talk to them, most of them will understand. But yes,still There will be few uneducated, mischievous people.. ignore them.. as much as possible. or till the time they harm u phsically... With Regards Sardu! Clear & Loud observationz, dear Sardu... really appreciate it... would like to stress more on your one very important point i.e. till we are actually phisically harmed by them... Let us take an example of An Elephant... Ever heard about the nature of an Elephant... He would roam about in a Jungle peacefully, while rest of animalz like dogz etc would keep on shouting and barking at the size and strature of that Elephant... but He would continue to stroll peacfully and he is least bothered about all this shouting going on until and unless he is physically endangered... his very existance is at stake... So when an Elephant strikes back even the most powerfull animalz are dumb founded... awe struck... running for their skinz... the surprise element... Likewise should be image or stature of Sikhz... breed the pshyche of an Elephant... Let everybody shout and bark until and unless we are physically challenged... for example like our scripturez are not manuplated... or they are not misinterprated to the next generation... Raise your voice when utterly needed otherwise you will only join the company of those barking animalz, of which Elephant is least bothered... You would remember that some 2-3 years ago, some fundamentalistz tried to enforce the recitation of Gaytari Manter in Gurudwaraz... Now that was a danger to the very existance of Sikhism... and a physical challenge... and you would also remember fully about the size and stature of that united agitation by Sikhz that lead to the running of such animalz for their skinz... Now thatz what I call a fight for a cauze... I am afraid... Rest is simple Jokerism !! BCM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardu Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 JJJ So that's two people who you have reformed ( sudhar keeta ). reformed!! lol!!! There was one way Guru Nanak has adopted 5-600 yrs ago and there is this one according to u.. i am amazed to notice the difference... Unfortunately you'll always get wishy washy Sikhs here who are probably to scared to stand up against insults to Sikhi themselves so they try and give you the same advice. No comments. you all are like my brother/friends to me. What these people don't understand is that sometimes you need to crack a few heads to make these people realise that Sikhs aren't the same jokers in real life as the one's portrayed by bollywood. Its individual's vision. I feel proud when i see movies like border and others in which whenever there is a need to show a faithful, patriotic, royal role director choose a "Sardar" to represent it. Few days back, i was seeing this movie.. Zameen.. where they shown a scene of hijacking a plane .. In that incident Director showed that 3 passenegers were killed by terrorists.. only one of them killed while "Fighting" with terroist.. that charcter was a Sardar!! I feel pitty for those who only notice "Fun" characters played by sardar.. not the one where they are shown as Brave and Loyal. Its movie world bro, If u have not noticed a joker charcter carrying a hindu or muslim or other name... its ur fault.. you will only notice the things u r searching for... Why curse everybody... Come to India. Come to my place.. i will show you so many sikhs actually indulge in illigeal activities just for the money. tommorrow if they show it on screen, you will make hell out of it. huh!! Even a decade ago these Hindu and Muslim jokers would never have tried to make fun of Sikhi but bollywood has brain washed them into thinking that Sikhs will take any insult. You gave that guy a much needed reality check ! Next time when u happen to "Visit" India for "Few days", come over here. I may show u some reality. You can't realize.. The persons u r entitled as jokers are our friend, our teachers, our giude, our brothers.. we share joy with each other, we share our sorrow... When share our festivals, we share jokes... we fight with each other.. we live with each other. I understand it is hard for u people to realize it... Just take the experience of JJJ as an example.. people living outside can't grasp this .. how can a hindu and a sikh and a muslim can live together?? Certainly, that sikh has gone corrupt.. huh. Like I wrote before, I'm proud of you man. If only there were more Sikhs like you. I'd much rather have one Sikh like you or Khalsa Soulja or Steel bangle on my side in a fight than a hundred Sardus and Ideal Singhs. Waah vere !! very good. now u have created some "Sides" also. Fight Fight and Fight.. life is more than a Fight. This is India boss.. you can't imagine a life without harmony, love and feeling of respect among different religion. Its not a place where , even after living for 100 years, sikhs have to advertise their indentity, They have to prove they are different from osama.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardu Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Clear & Loud observationz, dear Sardu... really appreciate it... would like to stress more on your one very important point i.e. till we are actually phisically harmed by them... Let us take an example of An Elephant... Ever heard about the nature of an Elephant... He would roam about in a Jungle peacefully, while rest of animalz like dogz etc would keep on shouting and barking at the size and strature of that Elephant... but He would continue to stroll peacfully and he is least bothered about all this shouting going on until and unless he is physically endangered... his very existance is at stake... So when an Elephant strikes back even the most powerfull animalz are dumb founded... awe struck... running for their skinz... the surprise element... Likewise should be image or stature of Sikhz... breed the pshyche of am an Elephant... Let everybody shout and bark until and unless we are physically challenged... like our scripturez are not manuplated... or they are not misinterprated to the next generation... Raise your voice when utterly needed otherwise you will only join the company of those barking animalz, of which the Elephant is least bothered... You would remember that some 2-3 years ago, some fundamentalistz tried to enforce the recitation of Gaytari Manter in Gurudwaraz... Now that was a danger to the very existance of Sikhism... and a physical challenge... and you would also remember fully about the size and stature of that united agitation by Sikhz that lead to the running of such animalz for their skinz... Now thatz what I call a fight for a cauze... Rest is simple Jokerism !! BCM Thanks for ur words Ideal . and I understand ur point. And agree too!! But the fact is that.. what is number/percent of these fundamentist fools.. and how/why they came? previously, there were no such issues??? We should and we would certainly oppose such things.. but there is lots of things which needs to be taken care of within ourselves.. sometime i feel ashemed on the politics in punjab.. on the name of religion.. This is not we are known for.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Thanks for ur words Ideal . and I understand ur point. And agree too!! But the fact is that.. what is number/percent of these fundamentist fools.. and how/why they came? previously, there were no such issues??? We should and we would certainly oppose such things.. but there is lots of things which needs to be taken care of within ourselves.. sometime i feel ashemed on the politics in punjab.. on the name of religion.. This is not we are known for.. Well, in my perception the simple reason is lack of Surprise Element... these numbered fundamentalist groups are fully aware that as soon as they utter a bitter word against our religion, we would get irritated and start creating nuisanse... Simple Remedy, Arrae Baee !! Let them bark freely (their freedom of expression... ) coz thatz their main characteristic... Why should we adapt to this characterstick... But should be fully awake to the reality and ready in case of physically challenged.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardu Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Well, in my perception the simple reason is lack of Surprise Element... these numbered fundamentalist groups are fully aware that as soon as they utter a bitter word against our religion, we would get irritated and start creating nuisanse... Simple Remedy, Arrae Baee !! Let them bark freely (their freedom of expression... ) coz thatz their main characteristic... Why should we adapt to this character... But should be fully awake to the reality and ready in case of physically challenged.... Yooo!!! Absolutely Correct!! and I agree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 I found a very informative post by SikhAwareness in another forum about Sikh perspective of Tolerance of other Relgionz... Please read it deligently and then make your observationz... Thanx by I.J. Singh It has been rightly said that man will do anything for religion- wrangle over it, argue it, fight for it, die for it - except live for it. To hate man and to worship God seem to be contradictory and perverse, for religion teaches us that the ultimate reality of God is to be attained through service to mankind. If I were to sum up the philosophy that underlies the Sikh way of life it would have three equally strong elements: 1) to earn an honest living, 2) to share the rewards of life with your fellow men and 3) to do both of these - live every moment of life - with an awareness of the infinite within you. In this concept of service to mankind, there is no mention that this fellow man must only be a Sikh but cannot be Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, agnostic or even atheist. Sikhism defines God as love, but love that is not limited only to Sikhs, while excluding others, such as Muslims, Hindus, Jews, or Christians, among others. If God is love then to be furious in the name of religion is to be truly irreligious. To be tolerant of others who are unlike us does no imply any less of a commitment to one’s own belief. I am with Jefferson who said “It does me no injury if my neighbor thinks there are twenty Gods or that there is none.†Toynbee, the celebrated historian, was perhaps the most prominent western observer to note that the two great religious systems of the world - Vedantic and the Semitic - met in Northern Indian in the fertile plains of Punjab. Their interaction spawned a new people - the Sikhs - with a new philosophy and new world view. In the five hundred years of Sikhism there have been many a debate on the Vedantic roots of Sikhism and also on its Semitic antecedents which came via Islam. There is also a second, powerful argument which holds that, to look at Sikhism as a synthesis is to diminish it, for it is an entirely new revealed system. But that discussion is not pertinent here. What is important is that if the philosophers of both Hindu and Islamic traditions have sought to include Sikhs in their own world-view, it is because they have seen something admirable in Sikhism with which they can identify. And that makes a nice starting point for a discussion of inter-religious tolerance in the Sikh perspective. What I wish to emphasize is that a recognition of the diversity of human belief, and tolerance of the variety of human behaviour, have permeated Sikh teaching and practice for its entire existence. History tells us the founder of Sikhism Guru Nanak was revered by both Muslims and Hindus of the time. He travelled widely to both Hindu and Muslim places of pilgrimage. Sikhism makes no claim of exclusivity in dogma. In speaking of the road to salvation, the Gurus spoke of the universality of the human condition. The scriptures say: of all religions, the best religion is To utter the Holy name with love, and do good deeds Of all rites the holiest rite is To purify one’s soul in the company of the holy; Of all effort, the best effort is To meditate on the Lord and praise Him ever; Of all speech, the sweetest is that, Having heard it,. to speak of God’s glory; Of all temples, the most sacred is (says Nanak) The heart in which the Lord dwells. (Sri SGGS: Sukhmani,Astapadi 3. Pauri 8.) Nanak taught Hindus to be better Hindus and Muslims to be better Muslims. To his Muslim followers he said: Make compassion your mosque, Faith your prayer mat, make honest living your Koran, Let modesty rule your conduct, let piety be your fasts; In such way become a Muslim: Let right conduct be thy Ka’aba, Truth your prophet, Make the Lord’s Will your rosary. Says Nanak: If all this you do, The Lord will be your protector. (SGGS: Majh ki Var, page 140.) Further on Guru Nanak said: Five prayers, five times a day Each with a different name Make the first prayer, truth; The second: to honestly earn your daily bread; The third: charity in the name of God; Fourth: purity of mind; Fifth: adoration of God. (SGGS: Majh ki Var, page 141) To the Hindus who revered and followed him, he gave similar advice but drawn from Hindu mythology and Vedantic teaching. He said: From the cotton of compassion, Spin the thread of contentment; Tying the knot of continence, Give it the twist of virtue. Such a sacred thread, O Pandit, Make for your inner self. (SGGS: Asa di Var, page 471.) Quite understandably, the emphasis in Sikhism has been less on converting others and more on allowing all human beings freedom to find their own destiny and salvation in their own way. Sikhism therefore, has not generally been a prosletyzing religion. Folk lore and tradition say that at the end of Guru Nanak’s life, his Hindu and Muslim followers disagreed with each other for each group wanted to claim him as one of its own. The Sikh scriptures start with three words - God is one, or there is one God - not a Hindu God, Muslim God or Christian God, or any of the lesser gods - but one God. He is further defined as free of gender, form, caste or birth and described as the embodiment of Truth and love. Tolerance between different religions can only grow from an understanding of their common ground. The Gurus defined and emphasized that common ground to allow God’s creatures room for diversity. In many a hymn the Gurus said: There is one God the Father of all And we are all his children. (SGGS: Rag Sorath, page 611) Guru Arjan who said: I keep neither the Hindu fast nor the Muslim Ramadan; I serve Him alone who will, in the end, save me. My lord is both the Muslim Allah and Hindu Gosain; Thus have I settled the dispute of the Hindu and the Muslim. I go neither to the pilgrimage at Mecca, Nor bathe at the Hindu holy places. I serve the one Lord, and none else but Him. (SGGS: Rag Bhairon, page 1136) Finally, I conclude my presentations with two quotations from the writings of Guru Gobind Singh: As out of a single fire, Millions of spark arise; So from God’s form emerge all creation, Animate and inanimate. (Akal Ustat, page 87) Guru Gobind Singh further declared: He is in the temple as in the mosque, In the Hindu worship as in the Muslim prayer. (Akal Ustat, page 86) This is the basic Sikh belief. The Sikh attitude towards other religions and their followers flows from this basic belief. When the Golden Temple at Amritsar in the Punjab, the most important and prominent house of worship in the Sikh faith was built over 400 years ago, the foundation stone was laid by a Muslim Sufi saint - Mian Meer. Through much of their history, in the many battles that the Sikhs fought for survival, many of the enemies were Muslim because the ruling government of the day was Muslim, other enemies were Hindu. Many of the friends and allies of the Sikhs in those battles were Muslims, others were Hindus. History tells us that during the time of Guru Gobind Singh when the Sikhs fought most of their battles, a Sikh, Bhai Kanhayya by name, had the job of ministering to the wounded in battle. Bhai Kanhayya did the job without distinguishing between friend and foe, for a wounded man was no longer an enemy. He was commended for this by the Guru. There can be no better example of commitment to the principles of religious tolerance and freedom of religion than that of Guru Tegh Bahadur. He willingly embraced martyrdom while defending the right of people other than Sikhs - the Hindus - to remain Hindus and not be converted against their will. History also tells us that in the past nine years, since 1984, many a gurdwara has been desecrated and many a volume of the Sikh scripture (Sri Guru Granth) burnt or shot at by the enemies of the Sikhs. However, there has never been a documented case where Sikhs had desecrated a Hindu temple, the idols therein, or any mosque. To my knowledge there are no known instances where a gurdwara has been built on the remains of a Hindu or a Muslim place of worship. This statement applies equally to churches or synagogues but I speak here only of temples and mosques because Islam, Hinduism and Sikhism were the only religions involved in the almost internecine conflict in the Punjab over many centuries. Even in these troubled times, Sikh temples remain open to all, irrespective of religion, as they always have. The only requirements being that visitors remove their shoes and cover the head. The prayer that a Sikh reads every day ends with the plea for betterment of all mankind, not that of Sikhs alone to the exclusion of everyone else. The 1430 pages of the sacred Sikh scripture contains hymns of the Gurus but also the writings of both Hindu saints like Trilochan, Jaidev, etc, some of low caste not acceptable to orthodox Hinduism, such as Sadhana and Namdev, as well as Muslims such as Kabir, Farid and Bhikhan. When the Guru Granth was compiled, had there been easy access to Christian and Judaic sacred literature, I am sure some would have found a place in Sikh scriptures. One cannot revere the saints of other religions without tolerating the different beat of the different drummer to which many of us choose to march. As I said earlier, to hate man and to worship God would be clearly contradictory and perverse, for religion teaches us that the ultimate reality of God is to be experienced through service to humanity and by accepting the diversity of His creation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 WJKK WJKFATEH, Khalsa Soulja, BikramJit Singh, Steel Bangle, im with u all the way brothers.....wat JJJ did is good. Nver take any crap 4rm any1 about Guru Sahib Or Sikhi, wat do u think the old time singhs did?, leave it??? nooooo they picked up there shashter and fought. NO1 shows disrespect to kes or anything to do with sikhi or else we brake their skulls! Although u are right in the sense that we should control our anger, but we musnt hesitate to pick up our arms as a last resort. Nice 1 man. Keep It Up. WJKK WJKFATEH 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 pick up our arms as a last resort. Do you think in this case this was the last resort :?: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 GUR KEE NINDA NEE SUNANEE 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 GUR KEE NINDA NEE SUNANEE Do you think 'in this case' bullying was the last resort :?: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 ideal - "bullying" is a harsh word for wat really happened.... ok jjj did let his anger get the best of him i agree - but anyone who says anything against guru ghar deserves a beating where would u draw the line?... someone sayin something against guru ghar.... against sri guru granth sahib ji... against sri guru nanak dev ji?.... or u jus gonna sit back and say "why be violent"?.... jjj shud have asked wat he really said instead of relying on a 3rd party... and if he admitted to sayin it then that beating was comin his way for sure - anyway either way it dont matter - i bet he will think twice before making a "joke" again :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 'IDEAL' Singh Ji, we rnt no Gandhis or pacifists 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 'IDEAL' Singh Ji, we rnt no Gandhis or pacifists Neither I am dear !! I think STEEL BANGLE provided the answer which was I was asking from you coz he has read all the posts... you are entirely missing what I am referring in quotes... 'in this case'... you are jumping to conclusions without even reading the whole disussion... which is quite un-gainly on your part... Gandhis... that was a nice joke... i liked that... :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 fateh course i read the whole thread, other wise i wudnt hav replied init?Im jus sayin man, u r sooo against violence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 19, 2003 Report Share Posted October 19, 2003 fateh course i read the whole thread, other wise i wudnt hav replied init?Im jus sayin man, u r sooo against violence No !! I am not against violence for a cause as you would have read above... but not in favour of violence for jokerism... it only brings bad name to Sikhs... My humble viewz, BCM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 fateh ji, I dont understand how defending the name of ure gurdwara can be called Jokerism????and plus the guy pulled his dari....let me ask wat u wud do in that situation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted October 20, 2003 Report Share Posted October 20, 2003 fateh ji, I dont understand how defending the name of ure gurdwara can be called Jokerism????and plus the guy pulled his dari....let me ask wat u wud do in that situation? You mean to say that when two sikhs fight they would kiss each other while fighting... anything is possible in fighting... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orchids Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Hello today I beat someone up. I thought he said "Gurudwara is a randi khann.." but actually he was jokingly saying "You should goto a randi khanna instead of the Gurudwara." ..... I beat him up real bad today, there are marks on his body. I want to know what we should do if someone say bad insulting things about our religion? and wether it was oka I beat him up. How do i remover the karma of doing this bad thing? I have a hot temper u have a kashmiri dude as ur roommate? :shock: i hope he never forgets this beating 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 If he was verbal, and u warned him, and he still persisted with insults, and u warned him again..and then he still was a sap, then by all means clip his ear. But if he touched ur kesh and pulled at ur joora, then by all means, im glad u battered him. Im not an angry person, and im not promoting violence, i just feel there should be some self respect, and pride in our gurus roop. Otherwise we might as well let people kick our turbans around (like some racist punks do.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 think before you do something if you think its right, time for some martial arts action *gets some popcorn** vaddiyah taamasha joke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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