What is BRICS?

[HSD]

On 1/31/2023 at 8:19 PM, dalsingh101 said:

 

Don't over react. It's good that people are being aware of these issues. Although the history and development of the DSM seems lacking in any scientific approach. I see A LOT of sociopaths/narcissists these days. It's telling that there is no 'treatment' for it. Basically it's incurable.  

Although the DSM doesn't mention those things, from what I've seen they are very common strategies used by narcs to avoid self-reflection. I think they'd come under strategies to counter cognitive dissonance when narcs get pinned down or in those rare occasions they might be able to pierce through their behaviour and have some cognition that what they are doing is wrong.

 

 

 

I actually delved into it at postgrad level, I graduated in something else altogether (techy subject). The subject has a mix of soft and for want of a better word 'hard' subsubjects. It's about as diverse as you can get. The soft 'social studies' part I really struggled with (whereas  most of the female students breezed through it, and parts of the more logico-rational 'cognitive psychology' were tough.   I breezed through the biological parts (when most struggled though), I guess we do have these inherent strengths and weaknesses. Most of the course (and no one was funded, it was all 'pay upfront') were white, middle class females (like 85-90%!!) 

I think for western culture the field tries to cover the ground that  more traditional ones cover with 'religion' by this I mean that it tries to explain behaviour and define good and bad behaviour inline with western objectives.   There is a lot of bullshit involved but aspects of it is very insightful. I don't see anything wrong in trying to understand oneself btw. The field has a lot of holes though, like findings not being 'cross-culturally valid' i.e. findings from one study not applicable to another cultural group. 

 

 

There is a distinction between low level narcs (i.e. ones with low self-awareness) and higher functioning narcs (who have enough intelligence to figure out what they are and how they fit into society). Our lot are low level types, that's why so many movements Sikhs start get derailed into the ground, because our own low level narcs see the opportunity to benefit by siding and supporting the other side. I think the very harsh, dog eat dog conditions in many villages and aspects of Panjabi culture itself (a norm of land squabbles, back stabbing over property entitlements help give rise to sociopathic traits amongst our lot). Others, seem to be more high level, and focus on preserving their own advantageous structure and picking off vulnerable outsiders. 

I think most people with sociopathy or psychopathy aren't diagnosed. 

It’s not entirely incurable. Most treatments are unpalatable though. The whole A Clockwork Orange approach would be considered torture for example.

This is the problem with Psychology as I learned about the subject - it often contradicts itself. How can someone with a dark triad mind ever feel what they do is wrong when they are completely without conscience? The idea that these sorts of people would have cognitive dissonance is ridiculous. What you’re observing is a self-serving behaviour designed to prevent repercussions to the dark triad individual. Real compartmentalisation is more often a stratagem for trauma blocking and used by people who have faced dangerous or invasive individuals in the past. Projection is more associated with egomaniacs who can’t face their own inadequacies.

A lot of the racist lunatics I’ve come across are women and most of them were from lower middle class families and above. I don’t think gender or class determines mental illness but does play a role in the type of behaviours that are exhibited. I was going to create a thread on profiling brits but I decided against it, Sikhs just aren’t ready.

It does feel like these sorts of inexact sciences have become a go to for their soul searching. Seeing as the subject started in white countries trying to figure themselves out after losing WW1 it’s no surprise.

I don’t think our lot have the dark triad. Very few are superficially charming or capable of the levels of deception that those with the three dark personalities have. With Sikhs it looks to me like a combination of dissociative identity  disorder, mental feebleness and learned helplessness alongside a few others that aren’t so prevailing.  Some sellouts I’ve seen gained nothing from being the way they are but couldn’t stop themselves from doing what they do. An example of this type of Sikh is the coconut who does the whole ‘I’m not a p*ki’ routine for whites even if it’s obvious they don’t care, you must have come across lowlifes like that. It’s like there is another part of themselves that is in complete adoration of or even a member of the enemy group. This side is often completely different to their Sikh facing display.

Considering how unscientific the field is and how subjective the people who gravitate towards it are, it’s not surprising psychological terms are not considered akin to real descriptions or treatment like with Medicine/Dentistry. It’s also fair to say that neurodivergence and mental illness are not the same thing. 

[HSD]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:32 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

Indeed. I do think hg claims to be the only true ultra however we know of, the npd still hides in the others, they are more or less self aware but not aware they have npd specifically. I'll listen to those at work tonight. In my sleep deprived craze I skimmed and thought you were hsd. And simply failed and flailed in his direction. 

On 2/1/2023 at 12:39 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

Facts. And yet, bro has crossed too many lines with me. I have him on ignore usually. Dude should be banned. 

To name just a few, we have the doxing,  the racism, the constant lying which is obvious. 

You're the only person who talks to him even and he treats you like shit. 

His redeeming feature is war footage and I don't see anything Sikh about this idiot. 

Punjabi ancestors of mixed hindu muslim heritage doesn't cut it. 

And he operates like a flying monkey for the weirdos on ss. 

On 2/1/2023 at 12:45 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

The list of all the inappropriate and intentionally inaccurate manipulative bs is too long to list really. Just browse his history. 

Don’t lie, you never ignore me. In fact you are obsessed with me and take every opportunity to belittle, moan or whine like a little racist.

You’ve even now admitted you instinctively lash out when you see my posts. The best thing for everyone would be if you ended up in a padded cell in a psychiatric facility.

You're just triggered because you thought Sikhs were stupid and a soft touch but coming across a Sikh who actually has a brain upsets your white savior complex. Pack up your histrionic personality disorder as well as your narcissism and leave me alone. 

[dalsingh101]

11 hours ago, HSD said:

It’s not entirely incurable. Most treatments are unpalatable though. The whole A Clockwork Orange approach would be considered torture for example.

This is the problem with Psychology as I learned about the subject - it often contradicts itself. How can someone with a dark triad mind ever feel what they do is wrong when they are completely without conscience? The idea that these sorts of people would have cognitive dissonance is ridiculous. What you’re observing is a self-serving behaviour designed to prevent repercussions to the dark triad individual. Real compartmentalisation is more often a stratagem for trauma blocking and used by people who have faced dangerous or invasive individuals in the past. Projection is more associated with egomaniacs who can’t face their own inadequacies.

The potential dissonance comes from lower level narcs who actually believe they are great (exteme egocentrism), but when external factors (i.e. reactions to their behaviour) point otherwise to an extent that it penetrates their psyche (albeit temporarily). When some of this gets through and they have an inkling that their self perception is off - that's when they'd start with the projection. That's when they will accuse others of being like they are. If you've known any closely, it's very strange to see how when they have been caught out by one person and told x,y and z about themselves, they then go and almost repeat these same statements verbatim to someone they have in a vulnerable dynamic, that's how some seem to shake off the reality. It is a clear projection. I think you are right in that it doesn't stem from any real conscience but rather a realisation that their actions may be harming them when the dysfunction they perpetuate comes back and bites them in the ar5e. But quickly, they rearrange reality in their heads to keep their fractured self-perception intact. Their whole conceptualisation of the world is fractured and inconsistent. You can catch them blatantly lying, and the next day they'll behave as if this didn't happen. They have a very useful 'reset' function' and seem capable of moving on very quickly without any trouble. Apart from sociopaths that seem intrinsically born that way,  most seem to have turned that way from childhood trauma - so they are compartmentalising or suppressing the past. It seems to manifest as extreme controlling behaviour, and a reversal of previous roles where they were the abused and now become the abusers. The chaos they inflict on other people's lives seems to fuel them, probably as some sense of power, again stemming from the loss of control they experienced as abused children.    From a Sikhi perspective it appears to be an extreme case of haumai? 

One persistent characteristic they all seem to have is the inability to comprehend anything that is not directly tangible and material i.e. metaphysics. If brain scans of psychos are anything to go by, it appears as if the regions of the brain associated with empathy, or 'theory of mind' are dead or dysfunctional. This seems to enhance their ability to manipulate but they seem akin to people on the autism scale in that they are incapable of 'theory of mind' conceptualisations towards other humans. Instead they seem to see them as objects to callously manipulate for their own purposes.  Other than that, the lack of guilt and conscience makes them not care anyway. It's interesting to note that Sant ji used to say that the death he fears the most, is the death of the conscience (jameer).     

 

BTW: I think the clockwork orange approach to trying to fix them just makes them worse. They used to have a 'short, sharp shock' approach towards incarcerated young offenders in the UK in the recent past (in Borstals)  - this was proven to make the subjects even worse in future. 

  

I have more to say about your (and my own) observations towards apnay in this respect and will do that later. 

[dalsingh101]

 

[HSD]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:56 AM, dalsingh101 said:

The potential dissonance comes from lower level narcs who actually believe they are great (exteme egocentrism), but when external factors (i.e. reactions to their behaviour) point otherwise to an extent that it penetrates their psyche (albeit temporarily). When some of this gets through and they have an inkling that their self perception is off - that's when they'd start with the projection. That's when they will accuse others of being like they are. If you've known any closely, it's very strange to see how when they have been caught out by one person and told x,y and z about themselves, they then go and almost repeat these same statements verbatim to someone they have in a vulnerable dynamic, that's how some seem to shake off the reality. It is a clear projection. I think you are right in that it doesn't stem from any real conscience but rather a realisation that their actions may be harming them when the dysfunction they perpetuate comes back and bites them in the ar5e. But quickly, they rearrange reality in their heads to keep their fractured self-perception intact. Their whole conceptualisation of the world is fractured and inconsistent. You can catch them blatantly lying, and the next day they'll behave as if this didn't happen. They have a very useful 'reset' function' and seem capable of moving on very quickly without any trouble. Apart from sociopaths that seem intrinsically born that way,  most seem to have turned that way from childhood trauma - so they are compartmentalising or suppressing the past. It seems to manifest as extreme controlling behaviour, and a reversal of previous roles where they were the abused and now become the abusers. The chaos they inflict on other people's lives seems to fuel them, probably as some sense of power, again stemming from the loss of control they experienced as abused children.    From a Sikhi perspective it appears to be an extreme case of haumai? 

One persistent characteristic they all seem to have is the inability to comprehend anything that is not directly tangible and material i.e. metaphysics. If brain scans of psychos are anything to go by, it appears as if the regions of the brain associated with empathy, or 'theory of mind' are dead or dysfunctional. This seems to enhance their ability to manipulate but they seem akin to people on the autism scale in that they are incapable of 'theory of mind' conceptualisations towards other humans. Instead they seem to see them as objects to callously manipulate for their own purposes.  Other than that, the lack of guilt and conscience makes them not care anyway. It's interesting to note that Sant ji used to say that the death he fears the most, is the death of the conscience (jameer).     

 

BTW: I think the clockwork orange approach to trying to fix them just makes them worse. They used to have a 'short, sharp shock' approach towards incarcerated young offenders in the UK in the recent past (in Borstals)  - this was proven to make the subjects even worse in future. 

  

I have more to say about your (and my own) observations towards apnay in this respect and will do that later. 

This is why psychology comes across as a pseudoscience. Dark triad individuals are simply not capable of cognitive dissonance as they don’t feel discomfort when others challenge their beliefs - the dark triad individual already holds those people in contempt and flippantly disregards what they say. Rather than simply punching down, these sorts of individuals usually do one of the following: indulge in hysteria, incitement, maligning the people responsible, emotional transference, deploying empathy traps or coercion of others to become human shields for protection. What you’re describing as projection is the low IQ type actions of an individual who, going by their own past experience, feels they are going to be tarred and therefore preemptively accuses to get ahead of any negative perceptions that they feel may form due to how they are. If they don’t, it makes their needs far harder to achieve. There is nothing worse for a narcissist/sociopath/psychopath than to be exposed and prevented from indulging in their true selves.

As for what you know as forgetting or rearranging thoughts that is more like ‘mental memory-holing’ than compartmentalisation. The thing with compartmentalisation is that it involves boxing up the trauma in what eventually becomes a flooded section that weighs an individual down. It manifests itself in later life through various types of self harm. What you say about compartmentalisation doesn’t even match the current views on it as described by other psychologists so either you misunderstood what you learnt or what you know is outdated.

The idea of copycat catharsis is also bizarre. It’s a common psychology trope that people who have had bad things happen to them then seek to injure others. In reality people with conscience are reluctant to commit these same acts as they are unwilling to perpetuate bad behaviour. More often than not the dark triad individual claims to have been the victim in order to justify their actions and to add insult to injury. Not only have they caused harm but they have prevented the victim from being treated as the one who has suffered. Look at the Columbine school shooting for example, where the perpetrators claimed they were being bullied. Only later did it come out that both were racists who decided to get violent as their bullying wasn’t as enjoyable as they had hoped.

Rather than having been on the receiving end as children, what normally happens is that an impressionable child experiences normalisation or indoctrination when young to believe these thoughts and behaviours are justifiable. This is how racism and islamism are instilled in their respective groups. Normalisation usually involves seeing it in practice, such as ponces seeing their elders abusing other children.  This creates an attitude that feels it is reasonable to do this when they themselves are older. Indoctrination involves explaining the theory behind bad actions with acceptable reasons. That is why it is easy to observe danger signals given off by these types from a young age as they are manifested in an immature form. In fact, many of these types have a deep seated respect for their abusers and don’t feel many negative feelings towards those that have caused them significant harm, unless what has happened to them begins to damage their ego at some point.

Human beings aren’t lab rats and it’s not surprising that people act differently in controlled conditions than when they think they aren’t being observed. Brain activity is basically a step up from phrenology and isn’t widely considered as being reflective of genuine mental states. To compare autists to dark triad types is strange. Autistic people struggle with lying and often have too much empathy. Most attitudes toward them are the result of bigotry in the field of psychology and double empathy has shown how a lot of what you say is ridiculous. On top of the dark triad there is another personality type - the sadist. The concept of theory of mind does not account for someone who displays this type of mentality as the sadist requires a keen understanding of how others think in order to gain pleasure from their negative reactions. You’ve also contradicted yourself by saying dark triad types don’t understand how others think but then describe them as being good at manipulation - they would require a good grasp of others in order to deceive them.

The aversion therapy from A Clockwork Orange does work, chemically and visually. There is a whole bunch of modern displays of this from psychiatric medicine to advertising. Do you mean electroshock therapy instead? If you know more about what happened in borstals I’d like to here it, your generation tend to be a bit reluctant to talk about it. 

[GurjantGnostic]

4 minutes ago, HSD said:

This is why psychology comes across as a pseudoscience. Dark triad individuals are simply not capable of cognitive dissonance as they don’t feel discomfort when others challenge their beliefs - the dark triad individual already holds those people in contempt and flippantly disregards what they say. Rather than simply punching down, these sorts of individuals usually do one of the following: indulge in hysteria, incitement, maligning the people responsible, emotional transference, deploying empathy traps or coercion of others to become human shields for protection. What you’re describing as projection is the low IQ type actions of an individual who, going by their own past experience, feels they are going to be tarred and therefore preemptively accuses to get ahead of any negative perceptions that they feel may form due to how they are. If they don’t, it makes their needs far harder to achieve. There is nothing worse for a narcissist/sociopath/psychopath than to be exposed and prevented from indulging in their true selves.

As for what you know as forgetting or rearranging thoughts that is more like ‘mental memory-holing’ than compartmentalisation. The thing with compartmentalisation is that it involves boxing up the trauma in what eventually becomes a flooded section that weighs an individual down. It manifests itself in later life through various types of self harm. What you say about compartmentalisation doesn’t even match the current views on it as described by other psychologists so either you misunderstood what you learnt or what you know is outdated.

The idea of copycat catharsis is also bizarre. It’s a common psychology trope that people who have had bad things happen to them then seek to injure others. In reality people with conscience are reluctant to commit these same acts as they are unwilling to perpetuate bad behaviour. More often than not the dark triad individual claims to have been the victim in order to justify their actions and to add insult to injury. Not only have they caused harm but they have prevented the victim from being treated as the one who has suffered. Look at the Columbine school shooting for example, where the perpetrators claimed they were being bullied. Only later did it come out that both were racists who decided to get violent as their bullying wasn’t as enjoyable as they had hoped.

Rather than having been on the receiving end as children, what normally happens is that an impressionable child experiences normalisation or indoctrination when young to believe these thoughts and behaviours are justifiable. This is how racism and islamism are instilled in their respective groups. Normalisation usually involves seeing it in practice, such as ponces seeing their elders abusing other children.  This creates an attitude that feels it is reasonable to do this when they themselves are older. Indoctrination involves explaining the theory behind bad actions with acceptable reasons. That is why it is easy to observe danger signals given off by these types from a young age as they are manifested in an immature form. In fact, many of these types have a deep seated respect for their abusers and don’t feel many negative feelings towards those that have caused them significant harm, unless what has happened to them begins to damage their ego at some point.

Human beings aren’t lab rats and it’s not surprising that people act differently in controlled conditions than when they think they aren’t being observed. Brain activity is basically a step up from phrenology and isn’t widely considered as being reflective of genuine mental states. To compare autists to dark triad types is strange. Autistic people struggle with lying and often have too much empathy. Most attitudes toward them are the result of bigotry in the field of psychology and double empathy has shown how a lot of what you say is ridiculous. On top of the dark triad there is another personality type - the sadist. The concept of theory of mind does not account for someone who displays this type of mentality as the sadist requires a keen understanding of how others think in order to gain pleasure from their negative reactions. You’ve also contradicted yourself by saying dark triad types don’t understand how others think but then describe them as being good at manipulation - they would require a good grasp of others in order to deceive them.

The aversion therapy from A Clockwork Orange does work, chemically and visually. There is a whole bunch of modern displays of this from psychiatric medicine to advertising. Do you mean electroshock therapy instead? If you know more about what happened in borstals I’d like to here it, your generation tend to be a bit reluctant to talk about it. 

You're confusing supression, repression, and compartmentalization. 

Who do you represent?

[dalsingh101]

2 hours ago, HSD said:

This is why psychology comes across as a pseudoscience. Dark triad individuals are simply not capable of cognitive dissonance as they don’t feel discomfort when others challenge their beliefs - the dark triad individual already holds those people in contempt and flippantly disregards what they say. Rather than simply punching down, these sorts of individuals usually do one of the following: indulge in hysteria, incitement, maligning the people responsible, emotional transference, deploying empathy traps or coercion of others to become human shields for protection. What you’re describing as projection is the low IQ type actions of an individual who, going by their own past experience, feels they are going to be tarred and therefore preemptively accuses to get ahead of any negative perceptions that they feel may form due to how they are. If they don’t, it makes their needs far harder to achieve. There is nothing worse for a narcissist/sociopath/psychopath than to be exposed and prevented from indulging in their true selves.

I think the most perceptive thing you've said in this post is that it comes across as a pseudoscience. That's because it is. All this is is attempts to quantify and conceptualise things that are probably impossible to empirically measure (which they try to do to get some respectability for the field). And even among psychologists, conceptualising what one influential framework tries to expound isn't straightforward and confusion amongst themselves isn't unusual. Just see it as attempts to try and understand complex behaviour and frame it. It's not an exact science at all. At best it helps us frame discussions rather than fully deconstruct the humans it studies. The hysteria you talk about is often referred to as 'narcissistic rage', the incitement is usually done to provoke emotional reactions that are fed off, maligning is referred to as 'smear campaigns' which you seem to accurately describe towards the end of the above paragraph. When they do the smear campaigns it frequently involves projection - that's why the target will be accused and painted as doing the very thing the narc does themselves. The low level narc actually believes in their lies - and do mental acrobatics that make them genuinely feel like the victim and the other the villain, whilst higher functioning ones know exactly what they are doing in terms of manipulating an empathetic person. Again, because certain traits are manifest in individuals at different levels, we are really talking about more of a kaleidoscope of umpteen 'scales'. So these things can't really be solidly conceptualised. But nevertheless, they can provide useful bases to discuss things, so anyone spouting off the 'latest' findings isn't impressive, because these things frequently change when some perceptive person(s) finds an element missed out previously. This is something anyone who is trying to make sense of a bunch of related theories needs to grasp, even if different people use different names for them. 

 

Quote

As for what you know as forgetting or rearranging thoughts that is more like ‘mental memory-holing’ than compartmentalisation. The thing with compartmentalisation is that it involves boxing up the trauma in what eventually becomes a flooded section that weighs an individual down. It manifests itself in later life through various types of self harm. What you say about compartmentalisation doesn’t even match the current views on it as described by other psychologists so either you misunderstood what you learnt or what you know is outdated.

Carrying on from above, if you think these things are frequently not overlapping, or even referring to the same or very similar phenomena you're mistaken. Psychologists frequently use new names for similar phenomena in their published papers to seem more original.

The later manifestations of suppressing or compartmentalising doesn't just come out as self harm, that's one of many ways it can manifest.  

 

T

Quote

he idea of copycat catharsis is also bizarre. It’s a common psychology trope that people who have had bad things happen to them then seek to injure others. In reality people with conscience are reluctant to commit these same acts as they are unwilling to perpetuate bad behaviour. More often than not the dark triad individual claims to have been the victim in order to justify their actions and to add insult to injury. Not only have they caused harm but they have prevented the victim from being treated as the one who has suffered. Look at the Columbine school shooting for example, where the perpetrators claimed they were being bullied. Only later did it come out that both were racists who decided to get violent as their bullying wasn’t as enjoyable as they had hoped.

No, it's one recognised way in which abuse can later manifest. One of many. It's not the only way and not everyone responds to it in this way, but clearly some do. That's not to excuse or justify their later actions - it's just trying to grasp some potential root causes. The norm in psychology these days is to grasp the interaction between biology and environment, and it's generally thought that having genetic dispositions that are triggered through events/trauma exacerbate this type of stuff. 

Learnt behaviour is also a recognised thing, and it would be interesting to find out how the people you mention were brought up. But hell, in this 'information age' many people learn their behaviour from non-physically present models via the web. So any parenting can be overridden by this. Even an idiot knows this.    

And I wouldn't discount the possibility that brain scans could help shed light on the possibility that some of the behaviour under discussion stems from dysfunctional functioning of areas of the perpetrators brain.   Yes, some people are born this way, but it may be that some brains aren't strong enough to cope with what they experience as children which causes a permanent  'short-circuit' of certain areas.   

 

Quote

Rather than having been on the receiving end as children, what normally happens is that an impressionable child experiences normalisation or indoctrination when young to believe these thoughts and behaviours are justifiable. This is how racism and islamism are instilled in their respective groups. Normalisation usually involves seeing it in practice, such as ponces seeing their elders abusing other children.  This creates an attitude that feels it is reasonable to do this when they themselves are older. Indoctrination involves explaining the theory behind bad actions with acceptable reasons. That is why it is easy to observe danger signals given off by these types from a young age as they are manifested in an immature form. In fact, many of these types have a deep seated respect for their abusers and don’t feel many negative feelings towards those that have caused them significant harm, unless what has happened to them begins to damage their ego at some point.

Okay, I'm responding to you para by para, judging by what I've read above we agree on this (see my previous para). Again, I say that a lot of factors are at play here. Referential models, genetic predispositions, environmental factors, upbringing. There does seem to be an individualised random aspect in many cases that can't really be easily explained. But the idea that some may just be born without a conscience (hence why one type responds differently to abuse in later life than another) is an important one. 

Quote

Human beings aren’t lab rats and it’s not surprising that people act differently in controlled conditions than when they think they aren’t being observed. Brain activity is basically a step up from phrenology and isn’t widely considered as being reflective of genuine mental states. To compare autists to dark triad types is strange. Autistic people struggle with lying and often have too much empathy. Most attitudes toward them are the result of bigotry in the field of psychology and double empathy has shown how a lot of what you say is ridiculous. On top of the dark triad there is another personality type - the sadist. The concept of theory of mind does not account for someone who displays this type of mentality as the sadist requires a keen understanding of how others think in order to gain pleasure from their negative reactions. You’ve also contradicted yourself by saying dark triad types don’t understand how others think but then describe them as being good at manipulation - they would require a good grasp of others in order to deceive them.

Look when I make these comparisons, it's to try and explore this topic, not to write an academic paper......Autistic people are on a spectrum that is seriously diverse, for you to simplify it like you have doesn't show much of an understanding of this. It's not something society or science really understands too well now, so you going on like you know don't do you any favours. 

You talk about the later emergence of the concept of a sadist on top of the dark triad. That perfect illustrates what I said earlier about the field being in constant flux like this. It should have probably been obvious that the narc, psycho, sociopath is a sadist in that they gain pleasure from other people's pain (be it physical or emotional or both). But earlier attempts to understand overlooked this somehow. Sadism may not necessarily work in just the purely mental/psychological way you have described. For all we know, the sadist is getting their 'jollies' from the terror they can physically see and hear from their victim. It's like a strange exchange of energy where fear, terror, dread, hopelessness fuels and stimulates the dysfunctional people. Maybe we'll never get to understand it fully - who the f**k knows what's really going on in these twisted people's heads.    The reason I think it is important for us to understand these things as a quom is because we seem to keep experiencing negative interactions with the sickos from other cultures, whether this is at a micro level like grooming or at a macro level with some higher functioning, postioned, imperialistic racist narc trying to manipulate our whole panth in the direction they want. It's interesting to note that whole societies/cultures can seem to resolve around this in relations to outsiders to themselves, and although our people aren't immune to it, it's almost like Sikhi purposefully forms a weaponised,  opposing force to this way of living/thinking on earth.  

 

Quote

The aversion therapy from A Clockwork Orange does work, chemically and visually. There is a whole bunch of modern displays of this from psychiatric medicine to advertising. Do you mean electroshock therapy instead? If you know more about what happened in borstals I’d like to here it, your generation tend to be a bit reluctant to talk about it. 

Well, my point was that exposure to brutal environments as a behaviour modifying deterrent - didn't work for many, but made them even more hardened and obdurate.  

 

Anyway, stop coming off as a know it all, it's an interesting discussion. That just makes one respond in a haughty manner in return! Surely we've debated enough over the years to go beyond that? The field of psychology is only a starting point for discussion. The field is fraught with holes.   Many times people with actual life experiences who've studied the field can see the blatant oversights that some middle class white (even if they are gifted) professional psychologist can never know through their lab rat approach. Maybe we should separate this stuff for another thread? 

What do you make of the idea of gold behind the proposed brics currency btw?  

[HSD]

On 2/6/2023 at 5:33 PM, dalsingh101 said:

I think the most perceptive thing you've said in this post is that it comes across as a pseudoscience. That's because it is. All this is is attempts to quantify and conceptualise things that are probably impossible to empirically measure (which they try to do to get some respectability for the field). And even among psychologists, conceptualising what one influential framework tries to expound isn't straightforward and confusion amongst themselves isn't unusual. Just see it as attempts to try and understand complex behaviour and frame it. It's not an exact science at all. At best it helps us frame discussions rather than fully deconstruct the humans it studies. The hysteria you talk about is often referred to as 'narcissistic rage', the incitement is usually done to provoke emotional reactions that are fed off, maligning is referred to as 'smear campaigns' which you seem to accurately describe towards the end of the above paragraph. When they do the smear campaigns it frequently involves projection - that's why the target will be accused and painted as doing the very thing the narc does themselves. The low level narc actually believes in their lies - and do mental acrobatics that make them genuinely feel like the victim and the other the villain, whilst higher functioning ones know exactly what they are doing in terms of manipulating an empathetic person. Again, because certain traits are manifest in individuals at different levels, we are really talking about more of a kaleidoscope of umpteen 'scales'. So these things can't really be solidly conceptualised. But nevertheless, they can provide useful bases to discuss things, so anyone spouting off the 'latest' findings isn't impressive, because these things frequently change when some perceptive person(s) finds an element missed out previously. This is something anyone who is trying to make sense of a bunch of related theories needs to grasp, even if different people use different names for them. 

 

Carrying on from above, if you think these things are frequently not overlapping, or even referring to the same or very similar phenomena you're mistaken. Psychologists frequently use new names for similar phenomena in their published papers to seem more original.

The later manifestations of suppressing or compartmentalising doesn't just come out as self harm, that's one of many ways it can manifest.  

 

T

No, it's one recognised way in which abuse can later manifest. One of many. It's not the only way and not everyone responds to it in this way, but clearly some do. That's not to excuse or justify their later actions - it's just trying to grasp some potential root causes. The norm in psychology these days is to grasp the interaction between biology and environment, and it's generally thought that having genetic dispositions that are triggered through events/trauma exacerbate this type of stuff. 

Learnt behaviour is also a recognised thing, and it would be interesting to find out how the people you mention were brought up. But hell, in this 'information age' many people learn their behaviour from non-physically present models via the web. So any parenting can be overridden by this. Even an idiot knows this.    

And I wouldn't discount the possibility that brain scans could help shed light on the possibility that some of the behaviour under discussion stems from dysfunctional functioning of areas of the perpetrators brain.   Yes, some people are born this way, but it may be that some brains aren't strong enough to cope with what they experience as children which causes a permanent  'short-circuit' of certain areas.   

 

Okay, I'm responding to you para by para, judging by what I've read above we agree on this (see my previous para). Again, I say that a lot of factors are at play here. Referential models, genetic predispositions, environmental factors, upbringing. There does seem to be an individualised random aspect in many cases that can't really be easily explained. But the idea that some may just be born without a conscience (hence why one type responds differently to abuse in later life than another) is an important one. 

Look when I make these comparisons, it's to try and explore this topic, not to write an academic paper......Autistic people are on a spectrum that is seriously diverse, for you to simplify it like you have doesn't show much of an understanding of this. It's not something society or science really understands too well now, so you going on like you know don't do you any favours. 

You talk about the later emergence of the concept of a sadist on top of the dark triad. That perfect illustrates what I said earlier about the field being in constant flux like this. It should have probably been obvious that the narc, psycho, sociopath is a sadist in that they gain pleasure from other people's pain (be it physical or emotional or both). But earlier attempts to understand overlooked this somehow. Sadism may not necessarily work in just the purely mental/psychological way you have described. For all we know, the sadist is getting their 'jollies' from the terror they can physically see and hear from their victim. It's like a strange exchange of energy where fear, terror, dread, hopelessness fuels and stimulates the dysfunctional people. Maybe we'll never get to understand it fully - who the f**k knows what's really going on in these twisted people's heads.    The reason I think it is important for us to understand these things as a quom is because we seem to keep experiencing negative interactions with the sickos from other cultures, whether this is at a micro level like grooming or at a macro level with some higher functioning, postioned, imperialistic racist narc trying to manipulate our whole panth in the direction they want. It's interesting to note that whole societies/cultures can seem to resolve around this in relations to outsiders to themselves, and although our people aren't immune to it, it's almost like Sikhi purposefully forms a weaponised,  opposing force to this way of living/thinking on earth.  

 

Well, my point was that exposure to brutal environments as a behaviour modifying deterrent - didn't work for many, but made them even more hardened and obdurate.  

 

Anyway, stop coming off as a know it all, it's an interesting discussion. That just makes one respond in a haughty manner in return! Surely we've debated enough over the years to go beyond that? The field of psychology is only a starting point for discussion. The field is fraught with holes.   Many times people with actual life experiences who've studied the field can see the blatant oversights that some middle class white (even if they are gifted) professional psychologist can never know through their lab rat approach. Maybe we should separate this stuff for another thread? 

What do you make of the idea of gold behind the proposed brics currency btw?  

Here you go:

As for the video, I hope your not hiding behind these to justify your beliefs. A lot of these YouTubers are just advertising some product or another. 

One thing that needs to be pointed out is how the graph in the video just shows the history of inflation and deflation. The value of the dollar may have gone down in nominal terms but salaries have gone up so it’s all relative. You can’t even compare some of the things that are available for purchase either - how much would a personal computer cost in the 1920s?

I think gold as backing for currency is a good start but I’ve already brought up a bunch of pitfalls earlier in this thread. The same goes for using a basket of currencies. I wish the BRICS all the best but it won’t be easy. 

[dalsingh101]

11 hours ago, HSD said:

Here you go:

As for the video, I hope your not hiding behind these to justify your beliefs. A lot of these YouTubers are just advertising some product or another. 

One thing that needs to be pointed out is how the graph in the video just shows the history of inflation and deflation. The value of the dollar may have gone down in nominal terms but salaries have gone up so it’s all relative. You can’t even compare some of the things that are available for purchase either - how much would a personal computer cost in the 1920s?

I think gold as backing for currency is a good start but I’ve already brought up a bunch of pitfalls earlier in this thread. The same goes for using a basket of currencies. I wish the BRICS all the best but it won’t be easy. 

You really do jump to conclusions at a drop of a hat sometimes......

What 'beliefs'' do you think I have about this???? (That was rhetorical, no need to answer).

To clarify to your often over active mind, I'm just observing what is possibly taking place and the potential broad implications of this. It is interesting and of especial relevance to Panjabi Sikhs, and it could well (if successful, and we know that there are a lot of obstacles in that respect) change the global game against white western euro/us hegemony. 

I think the more interesting aspect (to me anyway) is the proposed new routes for goods transport. If that gets pulled off, basically europe would be out of the loop. But knowing them, we could expect all sorts of shenanigans to derail things. Also, given that containers may have to traverse close to pedostan waters, we'd probably see them trying to become the 'somali pirates' of the region. 

[HSD]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

You really do jump to conclusions at a drop of a hat sometimes......

What 'beliefs'' do you think I have about this???? (That was rhetorical, no need to answer).

To clarify to your often over active mind, I'm just observing what is possibly taking place and the potential broad implications of this. It is interesting and of especial relevance to Panjabi Sikhs, and it could well (if successful, and we know that there are a lot of obstacles in that respect) change the global game against white western euro/us hegemony. 

I think the more interesting aspect (to me anyway) is the proposed new routes for goods transport. If that gets pulled off, basically europe would be out of the loop. But knowing them, we could expect all sorts of shenanigans to derail things. Also, given that containers may have to traverse close to pedostan waters, we'd probably see them trying to become the 'somali pirates' of the region. 

Your beliefs referred to the attempts you made at understanding economics. Go crack open a macroeconomics textbook and get back to me when you’ve learned something.

Dont project your hyperactivity onto me. As for the rest of your ‘insights’ I’ve already answered them. Your piracy comments are new but also silly. Most BRICS countries have navies large enough to carry out convoy escort or maritime patrol duties. Pakiland’s navy is entirely reliant on China too, I doubt they would let them just become pirates. Any criminal gangs who try to operate from their coast will get wiped out. Have you seen what modern naval guns can do to unarmored targets?

[dalsingh101]

22 minutes ago, HSD said:

Your beliefs referred to the attempts you made at understanding economics. Go crack open a macroeconomics textbook and get back to me when you’ve learned something.

Dont project your hyperactivity onto me. As for the rest of your ‘insights’ I’ve already answered them. Your piracy comments are new but also silly. Most BRICS countries have navies large enough to carry out convoy escort or maritime patrol duties. Pakiland’s navy is entirely reliant on China too, I doubt they would let them just become pirates. Any criminal gangs who try to operate from their coast will get wiped out. Have you seen what modern naval guns can do to unarmored targets?

Dude, are you okay? 

Some of that stuff is said tongue in cheek. You're really uptight these days. 

Those new proposed routes could bring a lot of cultural changes along with them. New relationships. Potentially new industries developing. If this thing comes off, the changes aren't likely to be small. Good and bad will obviously come from it. Economics ain't a field I've ever really been interested in, until recently. I'm not particularly clued up about it. There's no big issue with that.  Really, I think I'm probably more interested in the cultural impact or changes this may bring about. I'm wondering if our own Sikh thing could spread this way? I know certain fudhus in the panth (you know who!) will probably not an opportunity to dress up like colourful bandhers and prance around - but I wonder if this could actually help the panth expedite the process of  mental decolonialisation our people seem to desperately need. 

And look, as much as your ego seems to tell you otherwise, you, like anyone else, don't know everything.  If you have developed knowledge in particular areas, it doesn't hurt to share it. That's the whole point of forums like this.  You come across as if you think you know everything about everything. Take it down a peg or two.  

 

I hope you're alright geez, you seem stressed and touchy. 

[GurjantGnostic]

4 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Dude, are you okay? 

Some of that stuff is said tongue in cheek. You're really uptight these days. 

Those new proposed routes could bring a lot of cultural changes along with them. New relationships. Potentially new industries developing. If this thing comes off, the changes aren't likely to be small. Good and bad will obviously come from it. Economics ain't a field I've ever really been interested in, until recently. I'm not particularly clued up about it. There's no big issue with that.  Really, I think I'm probably more interested in the cultural impact or changes this may bring about. I'm wondering if our own Sikh thing could spread this way? I know certain fudhus in the panth (you know who!) will probably not an opportunity to dress up like colourful bandhers and prance around - but I wonder if this could actually help the panth expedite the process of  mental decolonialisation our people seem to desperately need. 

And look, as much as your ego seems to tell you otherwise, you, like anyone else, don't know everything.  If you have developed knowledge in particular areas, it doesn't hurt to share it. That's the whole point of forums like this.  You come across as if you think you know everything about everything. Take it down a peg or two.  

 

I hope you're alright geez, you seem stressed and touchy. 

Dude is far from fine. If anyone knows him they should get him some help. 

[dalsingh101]

4 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Dude is far from fine. If anyone knows him they should get him some help. 

Come on, any one of us could be in that position. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Just now, dalsingh101 said:

Come on, any one of us could be in that position. 

Facts...but.....facts.....like anyone know him irl?

[GurjantGnostic]

Checklist is far from good bro. You aren't blind. 

[HSD]

7 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Dude, are you okay? 

Some of that stuff is said tongue in cheek. You're really uptight these days. 

Those new proposed routes could bring a lot of cultural changes along with them. New relationships. Potentially new industries developing. If this thing comes off, the changes aren't likely to be small. Good and bad will obviously come from it. Economics ain't a field I've ever really been interested in, until recently. I'm not particularly clued up about it. There's no big issue with that.  Really, I think I'm probably more interested in the cultural impact or changes this may bring about. I'm wondering if our own Sikh thing could spread this way? I know certain fudhus in the panth (you know who!) will probably not an opportunity to dress up like colourful bandhers and prance around - but I wonder if this could actually help the panth expedite the process of  mental decolonialisation our people seem to desperately need. 

And look, as much as your ego seems to tell you otherwise, you, like anyone else, don't know everything.  If you have developed knowledge in particular areas, it doesn't hurt to share it. That's the whole point of forums like this.  You come across as if you think you know everything about everything. Take it down a peg or two.  

 

I hope you're alright geez, you seem stressed and touchy. 

I’m fine. I think your letting your own feelings cause you to read my posts in odd ways. When someone gets into a subject it can be frustrating trying to get them to ‘catch up’ as what may seem obvious isn’t quick to grasp, so it can seem I’m being terse but I’m trying to make sure you’re not being simple about what in time can become quite a serious issue. 

[dalsingh101]

Just now, GurjantGnostic said:

Checklist is far from good bro. You aren't blind. 

He's been around on the forums for a long while. We've had perceptive debates before. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Just now, dalsingh101 said:

He's been around on the forums for a long while. We've had perceptive debates before. 

You sure?

Because there is nothing Sikh about this dude. He has zero relationship with the Truth and he reactivated to attack you among other things if you didn't clock that yet. 

Like you did pick up on the flying monkey hate agenda from ss following us both around right?

[GurjantGnostic]

It's all the same weak manipulations bro. Just go peruse ss around the time I left it. Same act. 

[dalsingh101]

12 minutes ago, HSD said:

I’m fine. I think your letting your own feelings cause you to read my posts in odd ways. When someone gets into a subject it can be frustrating trying to get them to ‘catch up’ as what may seem obvious isn’t quick to grasp, so it can seem I’m being terse but I’m trying to make sure you’re not being simple about what in time can become quite a serious issue. 

It's potentially VERY serious. Those new routes will probably have all manner of unpredictable consequences. Opportunistic 'business people' are likely to exploit them. An increase in contraband is a given. So for examples we could have the whisky love affair in Panjab supplanted by vodka. Exotic drugs that aren't usually available becoming available in Panjab like meth or whatever (like many of our lot wouldn't indulge or get involved in the supply). Intelligence networks will form. Experienced mercenaries could be used against us. SOme of our own will join other sides.  That all being said, we too could potentially benefit from changes. 

[dalsingh101]

4 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

You sure?

Because there is nothing Sikh about this dude. He has zero relationship with the Truth and he reactivated to attack you among other things if you didn't clock that yet. 

Like you did pick up on the flying monkey hate agenda from ss following us both around right?

I don't see that. He went missing for a while, but I'm sure he's one of us. Credit where it's due, he was perceptive enough many years ago to see through the colonial agenda, at a time when the vast majority on forums couldn't. 

Yeah and mate, I'm old school, unsheltered. I know what real attacks on myself are like. This isn't worthy of much comment. No biggy.   

 

Everyone breathe deep and chill for a minute. 

[HSD]

2 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

It's potentially VERY serious. Those new routes will probably have all manner of unpredictable consequences. Opportunistic 'business people' are likely to exploit them. An increase in contraband is a given. So for examples we could have the whisky love affair in Panjab supplanted by vodka. Exotic drugs that aren't usually unavailable becoming available in Panjab like meth or whatever (like many of our lot wouldn't indulge or get involved in the supply). Intelligence networks will form. Experienced mercenaries could be used against us. That all being said, we too could potentially benefit from changes. 

A lot of that is happening now or has already happened. It’s all up in the air. Another possible issue is that our lot may not even grasp anything and end up being shut out of any positives. It’s like these lot aim for the worst of both worlds type outcomes. Overall I think world trade is going to go through a lot of ups and downs that make greater cohesion redundant, but time will tell. Not trying to be a doomer, just that’s how I see it going - though it’s all there to play for so nothing is completely messed up yet.  

[GurjantGnostic]

1 minute ago, dalsingh101 said:

I don't see that. He went missing for a while, but I'm sure he's one of us. Credit where it's due, he was perceptive enough many years ago to see through the colonial agenda, at a time when the vast majority on forums couldn't. 

Yeah and mate, I'm old school, unsheltered. I know what real attacks on myself are like. This isn't worthy of much comment. No biggy.   

 

Everyone breathe deep and chill for a minute. 

I clearly see what he's up to and content to let it continue. You ever hear him say anything Gurmat?

[GurjantGnostic]

That's a new account. Dude could be anybody. 

[dalsingh101]

1 minute ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I clearly see what he's up to and content to let it continue. You ever hear him say anything Gurmat?

I don't want to make this personal to that extent, And I cringe to say this, but I think his parents didn't encourage him to learn Panjabi. That's not his fault. We have to push him in that direction. 

Guru ji willing he'll start taking more of an interest in the Sikh culture aspect. He's got some brains, if he can get immersed in Sikhi stuff for a bit, it should transform him (with kirpa).