Krishan drowned in the world ocean!

[shastarSingh]

https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,4772

[shastarSingh]

ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥
रागु कलिआन पातिशाही १०॥
RAGA KALYAN OF THE TENTH KING

ਬਿਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨ ਕਿਰਤਮ ਮਾਨੋ ॥
बिन करतार न किरतम मानो ॥
Do not accept anyone else except God as the Creator of the universe;

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸ਼ੀ ਤਿਹ ਪਰਮੇਸ਼ਰ ਜਾਨੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
आदि अजोनि अजै अबिनाशी तिह परमेशर जानो ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
He, the Unborn, Unconquerable and Immortal, was in the beginning, consider Him as Supreme Ishvara……Pause.

ਕਹਾ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਆਨਿ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਦਸਕੁ ਅਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਘਾਏ ॥
कहा भयो जो आनि जगत मै दसकु असुर हरि घाए ॥
What then, if on coming into the world, one killed about ten demons;

ਅਧਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਪੰਚ ਦਿਖਾਇ ਸਭਨ ਕਹ ਆਪਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੧॥
अधिक प्रपंच दिखाइ सभन कह आपहि ब्रहमु कहाए ॥१॥
And displayed several phenomena to all and caused others to call Him Brahm (God).1.

ਭੰਜਨ ਗੜ੍ਹਨ ਸਮਰਥ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਜਾਤ ਗਿਨਾਯੋ ॥
भंजन गड़्हन समरथ सदा प्रभ सो किम जात गिनायो ॥
How can He be called God, the Destroyer, the Creator, the Almighty and Eternal,

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਅਸਿ ਕੋ ਘਾਇ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੨॥
ता ते सरब काल के असि को घाइ बचाइ न आयो ॥२॥
Who could not save himself from the wound-causing sword of mighty Death.2.

ਕੈਸੇ ਤੋਹਿ ਤਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਜੜ ਆਪ ਡੁਬਯੋ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰ ॥
कैसे तोहि तारि है सुनि जड़ आप डुबयो भव सागर ॥
O fool ! listen, how can he(Vishnu Incarnation) cause you to cross the dreadful ocean of Sansara (world), when he himself is drowned in great ocean?

ਛੁਟਿਹੋ ਕਾਲ ਫਾਸ ਤੇ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਗਹੋ ਸ਼ਰਨਿ ਜਗਤਾਗਰ ॥੩॥੧॥
छुटिहो काल फास ते तब ही गहो शरनि जगतागर ॥३॥१॥
You can escape the trap of death only when you catch hold of the prop of the world and take refuge in Him.

@Premi

@GurjantGnostic

@dalsingh101

the line in bold is very easy to understand.

Do you agree that krishan drowned in world ocean??

why don't our babaas and kathavachaks speak the above shabad from our Gurdwara stages??

Some gurbani shabads are tough to understand and some easy to understand but GurBani never contradicts itself.

The above shabad is very easy to understand.

[shastarSingh]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥
रागु कलिआन पातिशाही १०॥
RAGA KALYAN OF THE TENTH KING

ਬਿਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨ ਕਿਰਤਮ ਮਾਨੋ ॥
बिन करतार न किरतम मानो ॥
Do not accept anyone else except God as the Creator of the universe;

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸ਼ੀ ਤਿਹ ਪਰਮੇਸ਼ਰ ਜਾਨੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
आदि अजोनि अजै अबिनाशी तिह परमेशर जानो ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
He, the Unborn, Unconquerable and Immortal, was in the beginning, consider Him as Supreme Ishvara……Pause.

ਕਹਾ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਆਨਿ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਦਸਕੁ ਅਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਘਾਏ ॥
कहा भयो जो आनि जगत मै दसकु असुर हरि घाए ॥
What then, if on coming into the world, one killed about ten demons;

ਅਧਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਪੰਚ ਦਿਖਾਇ ਸਭਨ ਕਹ ਆਪਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੧॥
अधिक प्रपंच दिखाइ सभन कह आपहि ब्रहमु कहाए ॥१॥
And displayed several phenomena to all and caused others to call Him Brahm (God).1.

ਭੰਜਨ ਗੜ੍ਹਨ ਸਮਰਥ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਜਾਤ ਗਿਨਾਯੋ ॥
भंजन गड़्हन समरथ सदा प्रभ सो किम जात गिनायो ॥
How can He be called God, the Destroyer, the Creator, the Almighty and Eternal,

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਅਸਿ ਕੋ ਘਾਇ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੨॥
ता ते सरब काल के असि को घाइ बचाइ न आयो ॥२॥
Who could not save himself from the wound-causing sword of mighty Death.2.

ਕੈਸੇ ਤੋਹਿ ਤਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਜੜ ਆਪ ਡੁਬਯੋ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰ ॥
कैसे तोहि तारि है सुनि जड़ आप डुबयो भव सागर ॥
O fool ! listen, how can he(Vishnu Incarnation) cause you to cross the dreadful ocean of Sansara (world), when he himself is drowned in great ocean?

ਛੁਟਿਹੋ ਕਾਲ ਫਾਸ ਤੇ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਗਹੋ ਸ਼ਰਨਿ ਜਗਤਾਗਰ ॥੩॥੧॥
छुटिहो काल फास ते तब ही गहो शरनि जगतागर ॥३॥१॥
You can escape the trap of death only when you catch hold of the prop of the world and take refuge in Him.

@Premi

@GurjantGnostic

@dalsingh101

the line in bold is very easy to understand.

Do you agree that krishan drowned in world ocean??

why don't our babaas and kathavachaks speak the above shabad from our Gurdwara stages??

Some gurbani shabads are tough to understand and some easy to understand but GurBani never contradicts itself.

The above shabad is very easy to understand.

@Soulfinder??

[Soulfinder]

28 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

@Soulfinder??

Veer ji i am not gonna say anything as i am not a katha vidvan but looking at this shabad i would say that i will try to find out more using katha from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji's bani on Gurmat veechar website 

[shastarSingh]

4 minutes ago, Soulfinder said:

Veer ji i am not gonna say anything as i am not a katha vidvan but looking at this shabad i would say that i will try to find out more using katha from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji's bani on Gurmat veechar website 

Gurbani is God's word. We shud have direct relationship with Gurbani and shud not be over reliant on translations or kathavachaks.

Kathavachaks keep speaking for long hours and sometimes over complicate things.

This shabad is in very simple language.

[Soulfinder]

2 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Gurbani is God's word. We shud have direct relationship with Gurbani and shud not be over reliant on translations or kathavachaks.

Kathavachaks keep speaking for long hours and sometimes over complicate things.

This shabad is in very simple language.

I agree with you veer ji and you are correct but i haven't read this shabad before so I can't say anything about it. 

Here is a katha link that dass found for it and hopefully it should help

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio.php?q=f&f=%2FKatha%2F02_Present_Day_Katha%2FGiani_Harbhajan_Singh_Dhudhikey_(Vidyarthi_Sampardai_Bhindra)%2FSri_Dasam_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Ji_Katha%2F12_Shabad_Hazaray_Patshahi_Dasvin

[shastarSingh]

https://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,4772

Late Bhai Kulbir Singh ji has done vichar of this shabad in the above link.

He says that Hindu trinity (Brahma, vishnu and shiv ji) themselves drown and hence, can't help their bhagats attain salvation.

Many of our kathavachaks are too hinduized. They try to please the Hindu community by glorifying krishan "bhagwan".

Sarbloh Granth Sahib, the great rachna of Dasmesh Pita, says that when Beerajnad demon got very powerful, brahma vishnu and shiv ran to the forest and prayed to get help from Akal Purakh.

[shastarSingh]

Plz watch below at 0:50

Vishnu, brahma and shiv hid themselves in mitti(dirt) out of fear of Beerajnad demon.

 

[GurjantGnostic]

3 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ ਪਾਤਿਸ਼ਾਹੀ ੧੦॥
रागु कलिआन पातिशाही १०॥
RAGA KALYAN OF THE TENTH KING

ਬਿਨ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਨ ਕਿਰਤਮ ਮਾਨੋ ॥
बिन करतार न किरतम मानो ॥
Do not accept anyone else except God as the Creator of the universe;

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸ਼ੀ ਤਿਹ ਪਰਮੇਸ਼ਰ ਜਾਨੋ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
आदि अजोनि अजै अबिनाशी तिह परमेशर जानो ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
He, the Unborn, Unconquerable and Immortal, was in the beginning, consider Him as Supreme Ishvara……Pause.

ਕਹਾ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਆਨਿ ਜਗਤ ਮੈ ਦਸਕੁ ਅਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਘਾਏ ॥
कहा भयो जो आनि जगत मै दसकु असुर हरि घाए ॥
What then, if on coming into the world, one killed about ten demons;

ਅਧਿਕ ਪ੍ਰਪੰਚ ਦਿਖਾਇ ਸਭਨ ਕਹ ਆਪਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੧॥
अधिक प्रपंच दिखाइ सभन कह आपहि ब्रहमु कहाए ॥१॥
And displayed several phenomena to all and caused others to call Him Brahm (God).1.

ਭੰਜਨ ਗੜ੍ਹਨ ਸਮਰਥ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਜਾਤ ਗਿਨਾਯੋ ॥
भंजन गड़्हन समरथ सदा प्रभ सो किम जात गिनायो ॥
How can He be called God, the Destroyer, the Creator, the Almighty and Eternal,

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਅਸਿ ਕੋ ਘਾਇ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੨॥
ता ते सरब काल के असि को घाइ बचाइ न आयो ॥२॥
Who could not save himself from the wound-causing sword of mighty Death.2.

ਕੈਸੇ ਤੋਹਿ ਤਾਰਿ ਹੈ ਸੁਨਿ ਜੜ ਆਪ ਡੁਬਯੋ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰ ॥
कैसे तोहि तारि है सुनि जड़ आप डुबयो भव सागर ॥
O fool ! listen, how can he(Vishnu Incarnation) cause you to cross the dreadful ocean of Sansara (world), when he himself is drowned in great ocean?

ਛੁਟਿਹੋ ਕਾਲ ਫਾਸ ਤੇ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਗਹੋ ਸ਼ਰਨਿ ਜਗਤਾਗਰ ॥੩॥੧॥
छुटिहो काल फास ते तब ही गहो शरनि जगतागर ॥३॥१॥
You can escape the trap of death only when you catch hold of the prop of the world and take refuge in Him.

@Premi

@GurjantGnostic

@dalsingh101

the line in bold is very easy to understand.

Do you agree that krishan drowned in world ocean??

why don't our babaas and kathavachaks speak the above shabad from our Gurdwara stages??

Some gurbani shabads are tough to understand and some easy to understand but GurBani never contradicts itself.

The above shabad is very easy to understand.

Let's check the tafsir....what we want it to say right now? Hadith science...

Jk. 

No it says drowned. 

[GurjantGnostic]

It's a competition on clubhouse between the hindus and jews for whos the worse humans. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Expect them both us to harass us shortly. 

[Premi]

5 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

 

@Premi

@GurjantGnostic

@dalsingh101

the line in bold is very easy to understand.

1. Do you agree that krishan drowned in world ocean??

2 why don't our babaas and kathavachaks speak the above shabad from our Gurdwara stages??

Some gurbani shabads are tough to understand and some easy to understand but GurBani never contradicts itself.

The above shabad is very easy to understand.

1. I have no idea. 

2. Why should they?  Dasam Granth Bani is like Masters level of Sikhi when most of us are at elementary or high school level (just an example , maybe a bad one). Unless this Shabad has especial importance ?

[shastarSingh]

11 minutes ago, Premi said:

1. I have no idea. 

2. Why should they?  Dasam Granth Bani is like Masters level of Sikhi when most of us are at elementary or high school level (just an example , maybe a bad one). Unless this Shabad has especial importance ?

I mean when a kathvachak glorifies krishan "bhagwan", sangat shud quote this shabad to the kathavachak.

You wrote that you hv no idea. This shabad is so simple to understand. Guru Sahib wrote Gurbani for all Sikhs and not just for a sikh who holds phd in Sikhi.

We shud be brave enough to accept something when Gurbani is clearly stating so.

Why this love for krishan who declared himself Akal Purakh?

Muslims are much better than us in this regard. They will never glorify krishan as our "gianis" do.

[Premi]

28 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

I mean when a kathvachak glorifies krishan "bhagwan", sangat shud quote this shabad to the kathavachak.

You wrote that you hv no idea. This shabad is so simple to understand. Guru Sahib wrote Gurbani for all Sikhs and not just for a sikh who holds phd in Sikhi.

We shud be brave enough to accept something when Gurbani is clearly stating so.

Why this love for krishan who declared himself Akal Purakh?

Muslims are much better than us in this regard. They will never glorify krishan as our "gianis" do.

Veer Ji, you seem a little fixated on Krishan Avtar?

I personally cannot recall much about Krishan Avtar in Katha. Maybe try other Kathavachaks....

[shastarSingh]

Muslim prophet didn't call himself God.

Even Christ and Abrahim and Moses didn't call themselves God.

Krishan had super ego and called himself God. Even today crores of people consider him God.

This shabad of Sri Shabad Hazare is super clear that Krishan's super ego made him drown in the world ocean.

[shastarSingh]

https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/King_Kharag_Singh

King Kharag Singh (Sri Kharagesh) was an unconquerable warrior who fought a furious battle with Lord Krishna, in which Lord Krishna accepted his defeat to end the battle.

Guru Gobind Singh mentioned his battle in Dasam Granth in Krishna Avtar section in details which is full of Beer rass.

King Kharag Singh came from Jarasndha side to fight with Lord Krishna.

Lord Krishna tested various Yadavs, Kings, All Deities, Demons, Pandavas, Kauravas, Lord Shiva and Shivgans, Lord Ganesha, Lord Kartikeya, Lord Varuna, Kings from Persia (Khans) and even himself but no one was able to stop him.

King Kharag Singh hit Lord Krishna 17 times and made him unconscious. Even he pulled Krishna by his hairs and made Lord Krishna ashamed of his skills. Lord Krishna and Lord Brahma used deceit to kill him but he was not conquerable. King Kharag Singh destroyed ego of everyone in battlefield. King Kharag Singh even hit blow to Lord Shiva and made him unconscious.

Then all together everyone accepted their defeat and requested Kharag Singh to stop battle as he is unconquerable then only King Kharag Singh left war arena.

Sikh scholars calls Kharag Singh the form of the true form of Khalsa.

[shastarSingh]

It's very sad that this shabad is clearly stating that krishan drowned in world ocean but no one has the courage to accept the truth.

[Premi]

4 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

It's very sad that this shabad is clearly stating that krishan drowned in world ocean but no one has the courage to accept the truth.

Veer Ji, is this a Shabad you read daily ? Otherwise, it should not bother you, I think our Panth has bigger issues on individual and collective basis. 

[shastarSingh]

16 minutes ago, Premi said:

Veer Ji, is this a Shabad you read daily ? Otherwise, it should not bother you, I think our Panth has bigger issues on individual and collective basis. 

Respected Bro,

Every shabad of Gurbani is a JEWEL.

We shud try to do vichar of every shabad. Gurbani is our Guru and it's our duty to understand our Guru.

Why do you say that you hv no idea what this shabad says?

It's a sikh website and we shud all try to learn Gurbani.

[shastarSingh]

2 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Respected Bro,

Every shabad of Gurbani is a JEWEL.

We shud try to do vichar of every shabad. Gurbani is our Guru and it's our duty to understand our Guru.

Why do you say that you hv no idea what this shabad says?

It's a sikh website and we shud all try to learn Gurbani.

RSS hates Dasam Granth Sahib. Dasam Granth Sahib exposes the real truth about Hindu trinity and demi gods.

Shabad Hazare is a very popular Bani read in nitnem by many Nihang Singhs.

 

[Premi]

39 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Respected Bro,

Every shabad of Gurbani is a JEWEL.

We shud try to do vichar of every shabad. Gurbani is our Guru and it's our duty to understand our Guru.

Why do you say that you hv no idea what this shabad says?

It's a sikh website and we shud all try to learn Gurbani.

You didn't answer my question. I asked if you read this Bani ?

In terms of 'no idea' - what I meant really, is that I am not bothered, since I don't talk with Hindus about such matters and it doesn't directly relate to my day-to-day life; I also am not of Avastha that I feel I should engage in discussing a matter like this. 

Veer Ji, this is from Dasam Bani ? It is good that you are reading it, but why you are fixated on Krishan Avtar I do not know. 

You would be better off doing Parchaar on more positive things that are more relevant on daily basis to our community in Panjab 

Before learning this Bani I prioritise for myself, that I need to learn Jaap Sahib Ji and learn the proper meanings of all our Nitnem Banis

[shastarSingh]

9 minutes ago, Premi said:

You didn't answer my question. I asked if you read this Bani ?

I don't read it daily but quite frequently like 2-3 times a week.

[GurjantGnostic]

I see use in this kind of info. I've had to use info like it on muslims and hindus who want to either claim us as an offshoot or shoot us all. 

While we don't have to prove it all the time, sometimes you gotta have textual backing for Nirmal Paanth. 

[PCSJZ]

I agree that we should have some basic knowledge on who was who. Where I live in Punjab, we have a mandir directly opposite out house. About 100 yards down the road we have a Gurdwara. When my grandma was alive she would go to the mandir everyday hut not the Gurdwara. When I asked her why she would say that Mata is for everyone. Mata as in mata laxmi/durga etc. I was young and had very little knowledge but still argued that there was a huge difference between our Gurus and the Hindu demigods. However maybe due to blind faith and or lack of knowledge, she never believed that and neither did any of the others Sikhs that went to the mandir daily.

Even now if you ask many Sikhs, they will say Shiv, Vishhnu and Brahma are the form of God when clearly they are not.

[shastarSingh]

1 hour ago, PCSJZ said:

I agree that we should have some basic knowledge on who was who. Where I live in Punjab, we have a mandir directly opposite out house. About 100 yards down the road we have a Gurdwara. When my grandma was alive she would go to the mandir everyday hut not the Gurdwara. When I asked her why she would say that Mata is for everyone. Mata as in mata laxmi/durga etc. I was young and had very little knowledge but still argued that there was a huge difference between our Gurus and the Hindu demigods. However maybe due to blind faith and or lack of knowledge, she never believed that and neither did any of the others Sikhs that went to the mandir daily.

Even now if you ask many Sikhs, they will say Shiv, Vishhnu and Brahma are the form of God when clearly they are not.

Durga sweeps the floor of Guru ghar as in the sakhi of Bhai Lehna ji meeting Guru Nanak Dev ji for the first time.