Important for community to be aware of internal issues

[dalsingh101]

In all the (rightly in my opinion) focus on targeted grooming against our own community from certain well known quarters, I think it is important that we do not forget to keep a keen eye on predators exploiting the sangat internally: 

 

 

 

 

[Premi]

12 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

In all the (rightly in my opinion) focus on targeting grooming against our own community from certain well known quarters, I think it is important that we do not forget to keep a keen eye on predators exploiting the sangat internally: 

 

 

 

 

This video is relevant to your second video

 

[dalsingh101]

3 hours ago, Premi said:

This video is relevant to your second video

 

I saw that. I don't agree that grooming is exaggerated. But I do agree that whilst dealing with that, we also need to make sure we aren't oblivious to stuff happening within our own community.  

We seem to be going in the right direction in facing this stuff, but it will be challenging. I said on the other forum the kind of barriers that exist in people coming forward. I know one lady who was abused by her step dad when very young (not an apnee), and eventually she confronted it in her family. The end result was basically the family tried to cover it up, or pretend it didn't happen and the women decided not to go to the police for a variety of reasons.  She did break contact with her family though, and told me it was really good for her mental health (despite the heartbreak and loss of support network). It must have been very hard living like that - pretending nothing happened for years.  

[Premi]

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

I saw that. I don't agree that grooming is exaggerated. But I do agree that whilst dealing with that, we also need to make sure we aren't oblivious to stuff happening within our own community.  

We seem to be going in the right direction in facing this stuff, but it will be challenging. I said on the other forum the kind of barriers that exist in people coming forward. I know one lady who was abused by her step dad when very young (not an apnee), and eventually she confronted it in her family. The end result was basically the family tried to cover it up, or pretend it didn't happen and the women decided not to go to the police for a variety of reasons.  She did break contact with her family though, and told me it was really good for her mental health (despite the heartbreak and loss of support network). It must have been very hard living like that - pretending nothing happened for years.  

The problem is *some* women can be very manipulative. I have heard of (and even know one case in wider family) where Panjabi as well as other women make false allegations about sexual or physical abuse from partner/husband so that they can gain advantages in divorce proceedings. This type of behavior can extend (and I think you have told us before) to relationships with parents where young women feel their parents are not giving them enough 'freedom'; this gets escalated to police and social services and then the girls end up victims exploited by predators.

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, Premi said:

The problem is *some* women can be very manipulative. I have heard of (and even know one case in wider family) where Panjabi as well as other women make false allegations about sexual or physical abuse from partner/husband so that they can gain advantages in divorce proceedings. This type of behavior can extend (and I think you have told us before) to relationships with parents where young women feel their parents are not giving them enough 'freedom'; this gets escalated to police and social services and then the girls end up victims exploited by predators.

Thats exactly what the cops told me. 

[GurjantGnostic]

3 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

I saw that. I don't agree that grooming is exaggerated. But I do agree that whilst dealing with that, we also need to make sure we aren't oblivious to stuff happening within our own community.  

We seem to be going in the right direction in facing this stuff, but it will be challenging. I said on the other forum the kind of barriers that exist in people coming forward. I know one lady who was abused by her step dad when very young (not an apnee), and eventually she confronted it in her family. The end result was basically the family tried to cover it up, or pretend it didn't happen and the women decided not to go to the police for a variety of reasons.  She did break contact with her family though, and told me it was really good for her mental health (despite the heartbreak and loss of support network). It must have been very hard living like that - pretending nothing happened for years.  

Seen this too. 

[dalsingh101]

4 hours ago, Premi said:

The problem is *some* women can be very manipulative. I have heard of (and even know one case in wider family) where Panjabi as well as other women make false allegations about sexual or physical abuse from partner/husband so that they can gain advantages in divorce proceedings.

There's not much that can be done about this. All I see is that a bloke has to act above reproach at all times, which is hard if they are being purposefully triggered. I think these types of situation can also lead to other 'coping' behaviour such drinking or drug abuse which further exacerbates things. I guess the truth is that if a partner has enough malicious intent, not much can be done - ultimately it highlights how important carefully choosing a partner is? 

Quote

This type of behavior can extend (and I think you have told us before) to relationships with parents where young women feel their parents are not giving them enough 'freedom'; this gets escalated to police and social services and then the girls end up victims exploited by predators. 

This one is very tricky, a young girl, who is very emotional and feels suppressed can do all manner of crazy things in reaction. Again, it sort of highlights how important clued up parenting is. But even then, if a child has certain characteristics (i.e. high risk behaviour) it gets tricky. 

[dalsingh101]

 

[GurjantGnostic]

6 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

 

As painful as it is to see this is wxactly what every group needs to be doing. Keeping their fellows in check. 

[Soulfinder]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:47 PM, dalsingh101 said:

 

This made so sad seeing this as dass viewed the entire 40mins video and was shocked on tictok. Its bad and a disgrace for our dastar dumala wearing sikhs.

[dalsingh101]

12 hours ago, Soulfinder said:

This made so sad seeing this as dass viewed the entire 40mins video and was shocked on tictok. Its bad and a disgrace for our dastar dumala wearing sikhs.

I agree bhai ji, but it would be infinitely worse if we weren't facing up to these things like certain other communities who seem more concerned about protecting their image than protecting vulnerable children. And the old adage of "never judge a book by its cover" is very important for all to understand. I spoke to a renown, academic expert on such abusers 13/14 years ago.  He told me that such predators are extremely devious when it comes to hiding their true nature and adopt personas that try and bring people's guards down and deflect on this, so an overtly religious identity is one that they may typically adopt to achieve this. We already know certain priesthoods are riddled with such people (such as RC). I think it is very good that we at least have people confronting this within. It sends out a clear message to both abusers and their targets. We don't stand for this. 

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

I agree bhai ji, but it would be infinitely worse if we weren't facing up to these things like certain other communities who seem more concerned about protecting their image than protecting vulnerable children. And the old adage of "never judge a book by its cover" is very important for all to understand. I spoke to a renown, academic expert on such abusers 13/14 years ago.  He told me that such predators are extremely devious when it comes to hiding their true nature and adopt personas that try and bring people's guards down and deflect on this, so an overtly religious identity is one that they may typically adopt to achieve this. We already know certain priesthoods are riddled with such people (such as RC). I think it is very good that we at least have people confronting this within. It sends out a clear message to both abusers and their targets. We don't stand for this. 

Facts. This can save our everything. 

[Soulfinder]

13 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

I agree bhai ji, but it would be infinitely worse if we weren't facing up to these things like certain other communities who seem more concerned about protecting their image than protecting vulnerable children. And the old adage of "never judge a book by its cover" is very important for all to understand. I spoke to a renown, academic expert on such abusers 13/14 years ago.  He told me that such predators are extremely devious when it comes to hiding their true nature and adopt personas that try and bring people's guards down and deflect on this, so an overtly religious identity is one that they may typically adopt to achieve this. We already know certain priesthoods are riddled with such people (such as RC). I think it is very good that we at least have people confronting this within. It sends out a clear message to both abusers and their targets. We don't stand for this. 

I agree with you veer ji 100% on this subject.

[Premi]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/23/labours-preet-gill-accused-of-undermining-sikh-victims-of-sexual-violence

 

Labour’s Preet Gill accused of undermining Sikh victims of sexual violence

Kiran Stacey Political correspondent

Thu 23 Feb 2023 06.00 GMT

Shadow development secretary urged those calling Sikh temples unsafe to submit written apologies

Grassroots Labour supporters have complained about the behaviour of Preet Gill, the shadow international development secretary, whom they accuse of undermining Sikh victims of sexual violence.

Sikh members have made a complaint to the party after Gill sent a series of messages on a WhatsApp group that appeared to cast doubt on allegations of sexual abuse within gurdwaras.

 

In the messages, which have been seen by the Guardian, Gill says those calling Sikh temples unsafe are using “very dangerous language” and urges them to submit written apologies to their gurdwaras. One member of the group said she was “disgusted” by the comments, calling them “unforgivable”.

The messages are part of what some in the community believe is a pattern of Gill, the most senior Sikh in parliament, allying herself with conservative members within the community even when doing so alienates more moderate British Sikhs.

Nav Johal, a Labour councillor who was on the group to which Gill sent the messages, said: “I was very surprised by her comments, as there are genuine concerns with safeguarding at UK gurdwaras. Her messages were even more surprising given Gill [a former social worker] comes from a child protection background.”

A Labour party spokesperson would not comment on the complaint, but said: “Though we cannot comment on leaked WhatsApp messages, Preet would never downplay abuse or violence.”

The row over the WhatsApp messages was prompted by the publication of a report by Sikh Women’s Aid, which surveyed 839 Sikh women in Britain and found nearly two-thirds said they had experienced domestic abuse.

The report went on to warn about the lack of protection offered by gurdwaras in particular, with some of the respondents saying they had been abused by faith leaders. Sukhvinder Kaur, a co-founder of Sikh Women’s Aid, said: “We should hang our heads in shame at the sheer level of abuse that has been allowed to run rampant in parts of our community.”

The accusations triggered an angry response from Gill, who sent a string of messages to the WhatsApp group called Sikhs in Labour. In one, she criticised the report’s “sweeping statements”, adding: “Where is your Evidence guru ghars [gurdwaras] are not safe??? This is outrageous you should apologise to the sikh community.”

Later, she added: “Calling guru ghars unsafe is very dangerous language … Please submit a written apology to guru ghars.”

At one point in the conversation, Gill said alleged victims of rape at one particular gurdwara had been in consensual relationships with their accused attacker – comments that another member called “unforgivable”.

Some in the community claim that the WhatsApp exchanges add further evidence of Gill’s conservative religious beliefs, which they say clash with Labour’s liberal ideology and could risk damaging relations with India. However, friends rejected the characterisation of her views.

[Premi]

@GurjantGnostic @dalsingh101

remember the thread on SS relating to this article

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/20/domestic-and-sexual-abuse-of-silenced-sikh-women-revealed

This is the shady type of people we are dealing with, within our own community making money off government funded projects

[GurjantGnostic]

5 hours ago, Premi said:

@GurjantGnostic @dalsingh101

remember the thread on SS relating to this article

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/20/domestic-and-sexual-abuse-of-silenced-sikh-women-revealed

This is the shady type of people we are dealing with, within our own community making money off government funded projects

Subtly far beyond shady. 

Huh it looks like a handsome for.er devil left them a review on google maps last year. 

More reviews would help. 

[dalsingh101]

10 hours ago, Premi said:

@GurjantGnostic @dalsingh101

remember the thread on SS relating to this article

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/20/domestic-and-sexual-abuse-of-silenced-sikh-women-revealed

This is the shady type of people we are dealing with, within our own community making money off government funded projects

Nothing new to me here. I know a few 'Sikh' (and nonSikh) orgs took funding off the government back in the day to undermine the actions of Sikhs who were trying to highlight and confront the grooming issue, way before it became a well known issue i.e. post-Rotherham. 

[Premi]

 

 

[Premi]

 

https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/crime/religious-leader-who-has-led-worship-ceremonies-in-milton-keynes-is-arrested-for-sex-crimes-4276173

Religious leader who has led worship ceremonies in Milton Keynes is arrested for sex crimes

He’s been charged with 14 counts of sexual assault

By Sally Murrer

Published 31st Aug 2023, 17:52 BST- 2 min read

Updated 1st Sep 2023, 15:21 BST

 

A religious leader who sometimes led Sikh worship ceremonies in Milton Keynes has been arrested and charged with a string of sex offences.

Makhan Singh Mauji, who is 70, is a travelling Granthi, a ceremonial religious individual whose role is to read the Guru Granth Sahib, the holy book in Sikhism, and lead daily worship.

He has been charged with 14 counts of sexual assaults on women, relating to historic offences that occurred between July 1983 and August 1987.

[Soulfinder]

2 hours ago, Premi said:

 

https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/crime/religious-leader-who-has-led-worship-ceremonies-in-milton-keynes-is-arrested-for-sex-crimes-4276173

Religious leader who has led worship ceremonies in Milton Keynes is arrested for sex crimes

He’s been charged with 14 counts of sexual assault

By Sally Murrer

Published 31st Aug 2023, 17:52 BST- 2 min read

Updated 1st Sep 2023, 15:21 BST

 

A religious leader who sometimes led Sikh worship ceremonies in Milton Keynes has been arrested and charged with a string of sex offences.

Makhan Singh Mauji, who is 70, is a travelling Granthi, a ceremonial religious individual whose role is to read the Guru Granth Sahib, the holy book in Sikhism, and lead daily worship.

He has been charged with 14 counts of sexual assaults on women, relating to historic offences that occurred between July 1983 and August 1987.

Disgusting false prophet. Really bad for the community reading this.

[GurjantGnostic]

Narcissists get into everything. 

Especially religious leadership, politics, police etc. 

So we're gonna see more than our fair share of the 1 in 6. It's gonna be creepy a 20 percent of people in any religion and even higher at the top. 

 

 

[dalsingh101]

On 9/8/2023 at 12:27 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

Narcissists get into everything. 

Especially religious leadership, politics, police etc. 

So we're gonna see more than our fair share of the 1 in 6. It's gonna be creepy a 20 percent of people in any religion and even higher at the top. 

 

 

Hopefully, we've learnt some lessons from other 'faiths' like RCs in the UK at least and have at the very least started to bring the issue to the fore before we have well established, and protected networks of pedo gianis over generations. 

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Hopefully, we've learnt some lessons from other 'faiths' like RCs in the UK at least and have at the very least started to bring the issue to the fore before we have well established, and protected networks of pedo gianis over generations. 

Amen bro. May the Paanth be spared the degeneration we've seen take others. 

[dalsingh101]

2 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Amen bro. May the Paanth be spared the degeneration we've seen take others. 

My only worry is that we may be already there in certain places and not know it. If so, with kirpa, let a hard, harsh clean up commence!!! To not only give an example and warning to our own, but also these pedo riddled abrahamics.  

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

My only worry is that we may be already there in certain places and not know it. If so, with kirpa, let a hard, harsh clean up commence!!! To not only give an example and warning to our own, but also these pedo riddled abrahamics.  

Facts