Chanakya's bad words against women!

[shastarSingh]

https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/80405-chanakyas-bad-negative-words-against-women/

[shastarSingh]

@GurjantGnostic

@dalsingh101

[Premi]

Quote

In India, Chanakya(also known as Kautaliya) is considered to be a great person, a great strategist, a ruthless manipulator and the most clever administrator, whose only interests laid in safeguarding his country. 

Chanakya Neeti is one of Chanakya's famous book and is considered to be the greatest book on Raj Neeti by the Indians. 

In this book, Chanakya uses bad words for women and below are some examples.

1.      Chanakya starts the 2nd Chapter of this book with the following words:

"Untruthfulness, rashness, guile, stupidity, avarice, uncleanliness and cruelty are a woman's seven natural flaws."

 

2.      In Chapter 14 (Couplet no.11), Chanakya writes

"We should always deal cautiously with fire, water, women, foolish people, serpents, and members of a royal family; for they may, when the occasion presents itself, at once bring about our death."

In the above quote, Chanakya is basically comparing women with snakes and fools.

 

3.      In Chapter 1 (Couplet no.15), Chanakya says

"Do not put your trust in rivers, men who carry weapons, beasts with claws or horns, women, and members of a royal family."

 

4.      In Chapter 1 (Couplet no.17), Chanakya says

"Women have hunger two-fold, shyness four-fold, daring six-fold, and lust eight-fold as compared to men."

 

5. In Chapter 17 (Couplet no. 9), Chanakya writes

"The woman who fasts and observes religious vows without the permission of her husband shortens his life, and goes to hell."

 

6.  In Chapter 17 (Couplet no. 10), Chanakya writes

"A woman does not become holy by offering charity, by observing hundreds of fasts, or by sipping sacred water, as by sipping the water used to wash her husband’s feet."

 

7. In Chapter 8 (Couplet no. 8), Chanakya says

"Knowledge is lost without putting it into practice; a man is lost due to ignorance; an army is lost without a commander; and a woman is lost without a husband."

 

8. In Chapter 12 (Couplet no. 18), Chanakya says

"Courtesy should be learned from princes, the art of conversation from pandits, lying should be learned from gamblers and deceitful ways should be learned from women."

Basically, Chanakya is saying that women are the masters of DECEIT.

 

9. In Chapter 14 (Couplet no. 10), Chanakya says

"It is ruinous to be familiar with the king, fire, the religious preceptor, and a woman. To be altogether indifferent to them is to be deprived of the opportunity to benefit ourselves, hence our association with them must be from a safe distance."

 

10. In Chapter 17 (Couplet no. 14), Chanakya says

"The eating of tundi fruit deprives a man of his sense, while the vacha root administered revives his reasoning immediately. A woman at once robs a man of his vigour while milk at once restores it."

 

11. In Chapter 16 (Couplet no. 2), Chanakya says

"The heart of a woman is not united; it is divided. While she is talking with one man, she looks lustfully at another and thinks fondly of a third in her heart."

 

12. In Chapter 11 (Couplet no. 5), Chanakya says

"He who is engrossed in family life will never acquire knowledge; there can be no mercy in the eater of flesh; the greedy man will not be truthful; and purity will not be found in a woman or a hunter."

 

There are differences between men and women; they are equal but different

In terms of negative traits, I think it is true that in general, women are more prone to be emotional and make irrational decisions. They tend to gossip more and don't keep secrets as well as men. They tend to be more conformist than men so more susceptible to brainwashing. They keep grudges and are more two-faced than men generally

Do you agree with all the points @shastarSingh ?

[shastarSingh]

12 minutes ago, Premi said:

 

There are differences between men and women; they are equal but different

In terms of negative traits, I think it is true that in general, women are more prone to be emotional and make irrational decisions. They tend to gossip more and don't keep secrets as well as men. They tend to be more conformist than men so more susceptible to brainwashing. They keep grudges and are more two-faced than men generally

Do you agree with all the points @shastarSingh ?

Respected Veer,

According to my understanding, Gurbani mentions only 2 types of humans: Gurmukhs and manmukhs.

Gurmukh women are great.

Manmukh women can be deceptive and hv been used by rulers to spy on their enemy states.

Chanakya slanders all women and paints all women with the same brush by saying they are 8 times more lusty than men etc.

[Premi]

Just now, shastarSingh said:

 

Manmukh women can be deceptive and hv been used by rulers to spy on their enemy states.

Chanakya slanders all women and paints all women with the same brush by saying they are 8 times more lusty than men etc.

'Honey trap'

I think part of his agenda was to keep women 'in their place'

[shastarSingh]

6 minutes ago, Premi said:

'Honey trap'

I think part of his agenda was to keep women 'in their place'

I don't like chanakya's views.

In my life, I hv received great love and care from my naani, mom and elder sister. During my college days, I found lady professors being more kind hearted and compassionate and had softer heart.

Yes there are lots of bad women but then there are lots of bad men too....

[GurjantGnostic]

I agree with dudes observations of KALYUGI women. He failed to share his views of KALYUGI men. 

[Sajjan_Thug]

16 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Respected Veer,

According to my understanding, Gurbani mentions only 2 types of humans: Gurmukhs and manmukhs.

Gurmukh women are great.

Manmukh women can be deceptive and hv been used by rulers to spy on their enemy states.

Chanakya slanders all women and paints all women with the same brush by saying they are 8 times more lusty than men etc.

Baba Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowale has done katha of entire granth.  Which you might find helpful

Part 1

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.01.mp3

 

Part 2

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.02.mp3

 

Part 3

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.03.-.04.mp3

 

Part 4

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.05.-.07.mp3

Part 5

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.10.-.16.mp3

 

Part 1 Jeevan Jugat

 

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Jeevan.Jugtan.01.mp3

 

Part 2

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Jeevan.Jugtan.02.mp3

[shastarSingh]

3 hours ago, Sajjan_Thug said:

Baba Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowale has done katha of entire granth.  Which you might find helpful

Part 1

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.01.mp3

 

Part 2

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.02.mp3

 

Part 3

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.03.-.04.mp3

 

Part 4

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.05.-.07.mp3

Part 5

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Chanaka.Raajniti.Adhyai.10.-.16.mp3

 

Part 1 Jeevan Jugat

 

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Jeevan.Jugtan.01.mp3

 

Part 2

https://www.gurmatveechar.com/audios/Katha/02_Present_Day_Katha/Baba_Jagjit_Singh_%28Harkhowal_wale%29/Chanaka_Raajniti/Baba.Jagjit.Singh.%28Harkhowal.wale%29--Jeevan.Jugtan.02.mp3

Chanakya Raajniti book has some good teachings and some bad teachings like slandering of women.

Nirmalas try to justify even the bad teachings of chanakya due to heavy Hindu influence on them.

[dalsingh101]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:43 AM, shastarSingh said:

@GurjantGnostic

@dalsingh101

I don't get what you're asking? 

This is a political/social manual from what I understand. We have seen how existing Indic narratives were adapted in parts for Sikh use in the Dasam Granth. Same with this maybe? I'm sure some parts are very insightful and useful to us, others less so.  

[shastarSingh]

12 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

I'm sure some parts are very insightful and useful to us, others less so.  

Yes I agree .

Chanakya rajniti book has some good points but it has some very bad things in it too. Women are shown in very poor light. 

They are compared with snakes.

Loose charactered, foolish, lusty and masters of deceit.

Nirmalas say that chanakya was a great spiritual rishi and they even justify the bad things in the book as truth.

[dalsingh101]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:42 AM, shastarSingh said:

https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/80405-chanakyas-bad-negative-words-against-women/

You should be careful with where you're going with this. People could easily interpret elements of DG (out of context) and say similar stuff. Even Kahn Singh Nabha got confused in this way.    

[shastarSingh]

21 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

You should be careful with where you're going with this. People could easily interpret elements of DG (out of context) and say similar stuff. Even Kahn Singh Nabha got confused in this way.    

Respected Veer ji

Charitropakhyan has stories of bad women. So any comment on women is actually comment on bad women. Charitropakhyan also has stories about bravery of women like bravery of kakei(dasrath's wife) and 405th charitar about a young girl fighting bravely.

Chanakya paints all the women with the same brush. Plz read below his bad  comments about all women in general:---

Women have hunger two-fold, shyness four-fold, daring six-fold, and lust eight-fold as compared to men."

The woman who fasts and observes religious vows without the permission of her husband shortens his life, and goes to hell."

A woman does not become holy by offering charity, by observing hundreds of fasts, or by sipping sacred water, as by sipping the water used to wash her husband’s feet."

Courtesy should be learned from princes, the art of conversation from pandits, lying should be learned from gamblers and deceitful ways should be learned from women."

The heart of a woman is not united; it is divided. While she is talking with one man, she looks lustfully at another and thinks fondly of a third in her heart.

[Premi]

@shastarSingh what point are you trying to get from starting this topic?

[shastarSingh]

1 hour ago, Premi said:

@shastarSingh what point are you trying to get from starting this topic?

Chanakya Raajniti book has some good teachings and some bad teachings like slandering of women.

Nirmalas try to justify even the bad teachings of chanakya due to heavy Hindu influence on them.

Chanakya Raajniti was translated by kavi senapati and is taught in taksals. Chanakya shudnt be considered a great spiritual man and all his teachings shud not be considered true.

His slandering of women must hv resulted in harm done to women in Indian society as Indians considers chanakya as a great man and his book is read by most Indians.

[dalsingh101]

4 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Chanakya Raajniti was translated by kavi senapati and is taught in taksals. Chanakya shudnt be considered a great spiritual man and all his teachings shud not be considered true.

His slandering of women must hv resulted in harm done to women in Indian society as Indians considers chanakya as a great man and his book is read by most Indians.

You should spend your time on other stuff. I think most intelligent Sikhs know that this is a political/social manual and not anything else. 

[shastarSingh]

@GurjantGnostic

Did Aristotle, Plato and other known philosophers also write against women ?

[Premi]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

@GurjantGnostic

Did Aristotle, Plato and other known philosophers also write against women ?

[GurjantGnostic]

6 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

@GurjantGnostic

Did Aristotle, Plato and other known philosophers also write against women ?

I'm not sure bro. Greek language impacts the world greatly but I don't ascribe to their religion or philosophy. 

I like Pythagoras. The unknown revolutionary. He was equitable between sexes I think. 

He succesfully started a utopian society. They killed his az for that for sure. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Led zeppelin has you covered

in the intro. 

 

[shastarSingh]

13 hours ago, Premi said:

https://www.thoughtco.com/plato-aristotle-on-women-selected-quotes-2670553

Only Sikhi is perfect.

[shastarSingh]

8 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I'm not sure bro. Greek language impacts the world greatly but I don't ascribe to their religion or philosophy. 

I like Pythagoras. The unknown revolutionary. He was equitable between sexes I think. 

He succesfully started a utopian society. They killed his az for that for sure. 

Only Sikhi is perfect.

https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/misogynist-aristotle-viewed-women-as-mutilated-deformed-men-a2715d7e20e4

[shastarSingh]

8 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I'm not sure bro. Greek language impacts the world greatly but I don't ascribe to their religion or philosophy. 

I like Pythagoras. The unknown revolutionary. He was equitable between sexes I think. 

He succesfully started a utopian society. They killed his az for that for sure. 

 

[shastarSingh]

@GurjantGnostic

This quote seems a bit anti Women???

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

@GurjantGnostic

This quote seems a bit anti Women???

Good find.