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Daasam Granth Parkash in all Gurdwaras...


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Would you like to see the parkash of Dasam Granth in all Gurdwaras?

Considering that 100 years ago Dasam Granth Sahib was was parkash in nearly all Gurdwaras along side with Guru Granth Sahib. And that all of the panth regularly reads Jaap Sahib, Chaupai Sahib and the Tavparsaad Savaiyae.

Would it not be better to have Dasam Granth Ji in Parkas rather than on a bookshelf, and give our Guru the respect a Guru deserves?

Nearly all kirtanis quote Dasam Granth or sing shabads from Dasam Granth...a few examples being Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh, Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhai Harjinder Singh Shri Nagar Wale, Bhai Niranjan Singh Jawadi Kala Wale and many more......

The Taksali sundar gutka contains many baanis from Dasam Granth including Chandi Di Vaar and Shabad Hazaare Paatshashi Dasvi. Infact the chaupai we read everyday is from Treh Charitar.

Even today at Siri Hazur Sahib the weary eyes of travellers are greeted with the beautiful sight of Guru Granth Sahib and Dasam Granth Parkash side by side.... :D .....AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL

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there is definitly reform needed in the gurdwaras

how easy it would be to install a sri dasam granth saroop in every gurdwara no one knows - the amount of people who doubt its authenticity and years of petty argueing is gonna cause some big rifts between pro dasam granth and anti dasam granth crews :roll:

u also forgot bhai balbir singh raagi - his kirtan from sri dasam granth is awesome... :D

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Sat Sri Akal:

Sorry, Guru Granth Sahib (NOT Adi Granth Sahib) is the complete Guru and should occupy the throne solely. Should there be a copy of the Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth in the Gurudwara kept with respect...sure...but not at the level of the Guru Granth Sahib.

(Here it comes... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )...

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Sat Sri Akal:

Sorry, Guru Granth Sahib (NOT Adi Granth Sahib) is the complete Guru and should occupy the throne solely. Should there be a copy of the Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth in the Gurudwara kept with respect...sure...but not at the level of the Guru Granth Sahib.

(Here it comes... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: )...

true say!

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true say!

i hafta agree with this..... it's kinda like.... if you can put two granths which Guru Gobind Singh Ji didn't give guruship to, then you should be able to put other things like..bhai vir singh's preaching and all that too... they're not guru, but they're really really important... i don't mind having them in the gurdwara..but on the same level as Guru Ji? i don't think so..

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Guest Javanmard

Even if Guru Gobind SIngh did not give Guruship to the two Granths you still have Guru Panth represented by Budha Dal who has done it. so it is pointless to argue. The modern SGPC are not the Panth and they can't change this.!!!

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well in the same respect, Taksalis are also there ever since Guruji's times...so is it safe to say that if they didn't give it guruship, then it can be looked at that way too....

don't get me wrong...they're incredibly important.... but they're not Guru itself.... our current guru is Guru Granth Sahib and should not be equalled by anything in the Guru's house. I have no problem with them being inside the gurdwara..if people wanna read it seperateley on their own time, when there's nothing happening, or anything like that.... then cool.. but Guru is Guru, according what our last physical human Guru did and told us.

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Guest Javanmard

Well well well the problem with the taksal is that it was Baba Mohan SIngh who got the gaddi of Sant Gurbachan Singh and not Sant Kartar (with due respect). The official Bhindranvale Taksal is not the Chowk Mehta one but the Bhindran Kalan one. see Gurmukh Darshan by Giani Kirpal SIngh. Now Sant Gurbachan SIngh Bhindranvale's taksal was a ... Nirmala institution! there we go!

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Sat Sri Akal:

Sorry:

"Even if Guru Gobind SIngh did not give Guruship to the two Granths you still have Guru Panth represented by Budha Dal who has done it. so it is pointless to argue. The modern SGPC are not the Panth and they can't change this.!!!"

Read this:

The code of conduct and conventions recorded in the pages thatfollow was received by the S.G.P.C. from its Code of Conduct and Conventions Sub-Committee with its report reproduced herein below:

(source: http://www.sikh.net/sikhism/rehat_maryada.htm )

Report of S.G.P.C.'s Code of Conduct and Conventions Sub-Committee

To

The Secretary,

S.G.P. Committee,

Amritsar.

Sir,

The Shromani Gurduwara Prabhandhak Committee had constituted a sub-committee comprising the under-mentioned gentlemen for preparing a draft of code of conduct and conventions to enable it to determine and prescribe a proper set of conventions for gurduwaras (Sikh places of worship):

Giani Thakar Singh, Amritsar;

Giani Sher Singh;

Bhai Budh Singh;

Akali Kaur Singh;

Sant Sangat Singh of Kamaliya;

Bhai Kahn Singh of Nabha;

Sant Gulab Singh of Gholiya;

Bhai Labh Singh, Granthi, Siri Harmandar Sahib;

Bhai Hazur Singh of Hazur Sahib (or a representative of his);

Pandit Basant Singh of Patiala;

Bhai Vir Singh of Amritsar;

Giani Hira Singh Dard;

Bawa Harkishan Singh, Principal, Guru Nanak Khalsa College, Gujranwala;

Bhai Trilochan Singh of Sur Singh, District Lahore;

Giani Hamir Singh of Amritsar;

Pandit Kartar Singh of Dakha, District Ludhiana;

the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht;

the Jathedar of Takht Sri Kesgarh Sahib;

the Jathedar of the Takht Sri Patna Sahib;

Prof. Ganga Singh;

Prof. Jodh Singh;

Sant Man Singh of Kankhal;

Justice Teja Singh;

Bhai Randhir Singh; and

Prof. Teja Singh (who was to be the convenor of the sub-committee).

The meetings of this sub-committee were held on Oct. 4 and 5, 1931, Jan. 3, 1932, and Jan. 31, 1932 at the Akal Takht. The following members kept attending these meetings and participating in the deliberations:

Akali Kaur Singh;

Giani Sher Singh;

Sant Man Singh of Nirmala sect;

Prof. Ganga Singh;

the Jathedar of the Akal Takht;

the Jathedar of Takht Sri Kesgarh Sahib;

Giani Hira Singh Dard;

Bhai Labh Singh Granthi;

Giani Thakar Singh;

Giani Hamir Singh;

Bawa Harkishan Singh, M.A.;

Justice Teja Singh;

Bhai Trilochan Singh;

and the undersigned, the convenor.

Apart from these, the following gentlemen, attended occasionally:

S. Dharam Anant Singh, Principal, Sikh Missionary College;

S. Bhag Singh, Advocate, Gurdaspur;

S. Wassawa Singh, Secretary, S.G.P.C.;

S. Tara Singh (President, Shromani Akali Dal); among others.

The draft is submitted to the Shromani Gurduwara Prabhandhak Committee. We hope you will get this draft printed and published for ascertaining the general Panthic opinion as to it and after receiving various opinions, present it in the S.G.P.C.'s general meeting for final acceptance. After this, the draft was once again deliberated upon on 8th May, 1932 at the behest of the S.G.P.C. The following gentlemen were present at the meeting on 8th May:

Justice Teja Singh;

Sant Teja Singh, Granthi, Sri Nankana Sahib;

Giani Gurmukh Singh Musafar;

Giani Nahar Singh;

S. Wassawa Singh, Secretary S.G.P.C.;

Bhai Kartar Singh Jhabbar;

S. Waryam Singh Garmula (member in-charge, Nankana Sahib);

Bhai Pratap Singh, book-seller;

S. Lal Singh (S.G.P.C.);

Jathedar Mohan Singh (Sri Akal Takht); et. al.

Later, on the insistence of several gentlemen, another meeting of the Conduct and Convention Sub Committee was held on 26th September 1932 to consider the draft once again. The following members attended that meeting:

Giani Sher Singh;

Giani Thakar Singh;

Giani Hamir Singh;

Bhai Labh Singh, Granthi, Sri Darbar Sahib;

Giani Gurmukh Singh Musafar;

Bhai Joginder Singh (Mit-Jathedar Takht Sri Kesgarh Sahib);

Justice Teja Singh;

Giani Nahar Singh;

and the undersigned, the convenor.

Apart from these, Sant Teja Singh M.A., also participated in the deliberations. The committee deliberated upon the entire draf with utmost care and corrected it minutely. Now this draft is again being submitted by the Conduct and Conventions Sub-Committee to the S.G.P.C. Kindly get this draft printed and circulated among the congregations for their final opinion. Besides, a special session of the S.G.P.C. may be convened to consider it and accord to the approved draft the S.G.P.C.'s final acceptance.

Ist Oct. 1932

Sd. Teja Singh

Convenor, Conduct and Conventions

Sub-Committee

The list of Individuals and Associations who sent their opinions concerning the Draft.

The names of the individuals who sent their opinions as to the draft of the Code of Conduct and Conventions and its contents:

Bhai Sajjan Singh, Custodian of the office of Gurdwara Sri Hazur Sahib, Nander;

S. Hazara Singh, Patiala, Government Contractor, Bhawanigarh;

Giani Hira Singh Dard, Lahore;

Bhai Harnam Singh Naacheez, Village Naushehra Soon Sakesar, District Shahpur;

Bhai Pratap Singh, Publisher and Book-seller, Amritsar;

Bhai Ram Singh, Dera Baba Mishra Singh, Chowk Lachhmansar, Amritsar;

Giani Nahar Singh of Asli Qaumi Dard, Amritsar;

Giani Nahar Singh of Asli Qaumi Dard, Amritsar (Reacting to the second draft);

S. Ganda Singh V.C.O. (Retd.), Examiner Persian Writings Office of the Deputy Commissioner, Jalandhar City;

Vaid Naurang Singh, Gurbachan Singh Tanghi, Amritsar;

Bhai Mala Singh, Gurdwara Churasti Attari, Amritsar;

Sardar Bahadur Bhai Sahib Kahn Singh, Nabha;

Anonymous devotee;

Anonymous devotee;

Sant Tehl Singh Ji, Majitha, Amritsar;

Bhai Narain Singh, Masit Palkot, P.O. Garhdiwala (Hoshiarpur);

Bhai Uttam Singh Chittagong (Bengal), P.O., Railway Building, Chittangong;

Editors, The Khalsa and The Khalsa Advocate, Amritsar;

Bhai Amrik Singh, Lime Merchant, Gujranwala;

Sant Gulab Singh, Khalsa Anand Bhawan, Moga (Ferozepur);

Giani Hira Singh, Dhudial, Jhelum;

Bhai Nand Singh Engineer c/o Baba Bakhtawar Lal Sharma, Bathinda;

Master Bachan Singh 'Bachan', Sidhwan Kalan (Ludhiana);

Bhai Bishan Singh Suhana, G.D. Khalsa High School Jalandhar;

Bhai Nazam Singh Sadhaar, Dinapur (Patna);

Sant Gulab Singh Gholiya, Moga;

Ganda Singh Jaachak, Amritsar;

Master Puran Singh Anandpuri, Chowk Karori, Amritsar;

Giani Bachittar Singh C/o Khalsa Trading Agency, Calcutta;

Bhai Tripat Singh, Nagoki Sarli (Amritsar);

Giani Ran Singh, Gurdwara Damdama Sahib, Mirpur (via Jhelum);

Bhai Chattar Singh, Gurdwara Saranban City, Malayasia;

Bhai Thakar Singh Sansaar, Village Fatehgarh Ghanayian, P.O. Gurdaspur;

Pandit Kartar Singh, Dakha (Ludhiana);

Bhai Prem Singh Giani, Khalsa High School, Kalar (Rawalpindi);

Bhai Gurdit Singh Dars, Chak No. 132, P.O. Multan;

Bhai Sunder Singh Duberan (Rawalpindi);

Giani Bhagat Singh, Khalsa High School, Baba Bakala, Amritsar;

Bhai Saran Singh, Granthi, Gurdwara Ratan Tala, Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Karachi;

Bhai Chhehbar Singh, Head Master, Khalsa Updeshak College, Orphanage Gharjakh (Gujranwala);

Bhai Mal Singh Khosla, Kashmir State;

Dr. Teja Singh Giani, Fateh Chak (Tarn Taran);

Bhai Gurmukh Singh, Granthi, Barhundi (Ludhiana);

Bhai Mohan Singh Vaid, Tarn Taran (Amritsar);

Bhai Jodh Singh, Kripan Bahadar, Alowal, (Malay State);

Bhai Prem Singh, Govt. Pensioner, Mangat (Gujrat);

Bhai Mahan Balbir Singh Akali, Village Patto Singh Wali P.O. Ferozepur;

Bhai Manohar Singh First Head Clerk, Local Gurdwara Committee, Amritsar;

Bhai Mahinder Singh, President, Gurdwara Committee Samadh Bhai, Village Anuke (Ferozepur);

Bhai Gurbachan Singh (Ketrygess M.P. nett Jormun'e B.Sc.).

Opinions as to the draft of the Code of Conduct and Conventions and its contents were received from the following Panthic associations:

Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, Khadoor Sahib (Amritsar);

Khalsa Committee (School), Hoti;

Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Gujranwala;

Sikh Women's Educational Committee, Shaankar (Jalandhar);

Sangat Takhat Sri Kesgarh Sahib, Anandpur;

Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Gujarkhan;

Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Chak Jhumra Mandi (Lyallpur);

Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Kuntrila (Rawalpindi);

Akali Jatha Amritsar City;

Sikh Teachers' Association, Khalsa School, Khaaria (Gujrat)

Khalsa Central Diwan, Shromani Panth, Malouni Jatha, Majha;

Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Dhudial (Jhelum);

Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Bombay;

Guru Nanak Khalsa Mission School, Dehra Sahib, Jama Rai;

Khalsa Diwan Lahore Cantt.;

Central Sikh Naujuwan Sabha, Burma Jaunji (S.S.S.) and Khalsa Diwan Burma;

Secretary, Akali Jatha, Tehsil Ambala;

Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Khushab (Sargodha);

Pacific Coast Khalsa Diwan, Stockton (America)

Gurdwara Committee, Momeo (Burma);

Jathedar Budha Dal Nihang Singh Chalda Vehir, Dhobi Mandi, Lahore.

One Absolute Manifest. Eternal Destroyer of Darkness. Grace Incarnate.

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Sat Sri Akal:

Sorry, Guru Granth Sahib (NOT Adi Granth Sahib) is the complete Guru and should occupy the throne solely. Should there be a copy of the Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth in the Gurudwara kept with respect...sure...but not at the level of the Guru Granth Sahib.

I totally agree with this :!:

I heard a kathakar talking about this once and to support the above statement he was saying that the reason why Dasam Granth is not to be regarded at the same level as Sri Guru Granth Sahib is because it contains Guru Gobind Singh ji's own katha. Whereas Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji does not contain any personal katha of any of the gurus.

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Three of the Baanis needed for an amrti sanchaar are from DASAM GRANTH (one being from CHARIRTRO PAKHYAAN!!! :LOL: )

This means that the baani of the Dasam Granth was placed on the same level as that of the Guru Granth....without Dasam Granth how would an amrit sanchaar occur??????

Lets see you have an amrit sanchaar without Dasam Granth........

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Three of the Baanis needed for an amrti sanchaar are from DASAM GRANTH (one being from CHARIRTRO PAKHYAAN!!! :LOL: )

This means that the baani of the Dasam Granth was placed on the same level as that of the Guru Granth....without Dasam Granth how would an amrit sanchaar occur??????

Lets see you have an amrit sanchaar without Dasam Granth........

Lets see veer ji... I agree with you there dasam granth should be there in the time of amrit-sanchar... First of all there are lack of dasam granth copies out there... second of all it should be there not must since panth is struggling to get complete compiled copy of dasam granth sahib ji.

so you guys cant really hurt those people by calling the amrit they took "invalid".

In toronto there is only one copy of dasam bani...which damdami takshal mehta toronto has it..its an old bir... its really hard to get copies out there..

Amrit doesnt become invalid that easily especially when you got rang of pyar charya hoya with guroo sahiban that much that you come to his thorne with your head on the palm of your hand...... :D

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Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh

lalleshvari you keep going on about this :

Well well well the problem with the taksal is that it was Baba Mohan SIngh who got the gaddi of Sant Gurbachan Singh and not Sant Kartar (with due respect). The official Bhindranvale Taksal is not the Chowk Mehta one but the Bhindran Kalan one. see Gurmukh Darshan by Giani Kirpal SIngh. Now Sant Gurbachan SIngh Bhindranvale's taksal was a ... Nirmala institution! there we go!

Am sorry u are so wrong again like so many off ur assumptions. Taksaali singh's have stated on this forum before wiith ample proof that the info u puting out about Bhai Mohan Singh of bhinderi Kala being the real Damdami Taksaal is 100% NOT TRUE. If u ever had any sangat of the Taksaali singhs from Sant Gyani Sunder Singh Ji, Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji's times u would know that THERE is tape recorded statement of Vady Mahapursh Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh at Patna Sahib stating who will lead the Damdami Taksaal and it was not Bhai Mohan Singh, if u need a copy am sure when the Damdami Taksaal website is up it wil clear ur miss guided thoughts :) if u cnt wait ive got a copy i will forward it u.

Akaal

Sukdev Singh Jhamka

just to remind u what was said a while back on this forum about the Damdami Taksaal, its from Bhai Jasdev Singh Canada

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I find it really insulting when some people are questioning the authenticy of Damdami Taksal. The four main jathay bandian from Guruji's time were: 1)Taksal 2)Nihangs 3)Nirmalay 4)Udassi. All these jathay bandis still exist to this day, and they have outmost respect for each other. I would request the nihungs to ask their respected Jathedars (Jathedar Santa Singh Budha Dal, Jathedar Tarna Dal,Jathedar Nihal Singh Harian Velan, Jathedar Daya Singh Bidhi Chand, and all the others I have left out) about the history of Taksal as they definitely know all the full facts. Majority of the Jathedars from Taksal have been a big part of the panth. Either as granthi's or teachers at darbar sahib or as great warriors. Nihang singhs have a very strong ties with Taksal, my family is personally related to Jathedar Akali Phula Singh Bhuda Dal and has always been very close to Taksal. Damdami Taksal history will be shortly up as we are very busy working on our websites: www.damdamitaksal.com, www.damdamitaksal.org, www.gurparsad.org, www.gursikhijeevan.com.

"actually the real successor to Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranvale was Sant Mohan Singh Bhindranvale who remained in Bhindran kalan, whereas Sant Kartar Singh set up his group in Chowk Mehta. "

This statement is 100% false as we have the tapes in which Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh Khalsa says that Sant Kartar Singh will be given all responsibilities of Taksal. Please refrain from making comments that are not 100% correct. You should not make a statement which you are not sure about unless you state that you are unsure.

Please be patient and wait for the sites to go up, as they will answer many questions people have regarding Damdami Taksal.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

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Guest Javanmard

I have personally nothing against Sant Kartar Singh Bhindranvale, on the contrary I respect his prachar against the Nirankari bastards. I am aware of the tape as such and please don't take my statement as absolutist. The fact is that the Taksal's functioning is quite a complex thing and that the split in the Taksal leaves a lot of questions. Fact is that for Nirmale Sant Sundar Singh and Sant Gurbachan SIngh have always been considered as part of the Nirmala tradition. There is definetly a dispute over the succession and the tape is one document among others. The testimony of GIani Kirpal Singh, jathedar of Akal Takht, a student of Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranvale needs to be taken into acount as well. I am not saying that Sant Gurbachan SIngh did not say what is being said on the tape, but I am saying that there are other documents which are concurrents to this one such as the testimony of Giani Kirpal SIngh. The reason why I make the statement about Baba Mohan Singh's taksal is that they have kept their scholarly tradition alive whereas the Chowk Mehta has discontinued with certain teachings. I mean I don't know many Chowk Mehta taksalis who have learnt Sanskrit for example, a characteristic feature of Sant Gurbachan SIngh Bhindranvale. Being a Sanskritist I must admit that I stand in awe in front of Sant Gurbachn SIngh's mastery of Sanskrit and its proper use in the Sikh use.

be assured that I am in no way trying to malign Sant Kartar SIngh in any way. as I said I admire his activity against the Nirnakari bastards it's just that there are other sources than the tape to take into account and the tradition of Sant Sundar SIngh's Taksal where Sanskrit played a great role alongwith the study of Udasi works.

After all this dispute will never be solved totally. I have chosen to doubt not out of ideological reasons but just because of the variety of sources.

If in any way I have offended anyone please do accept my due apologies.

Please do not use the word jatha for Nirmale, Nihangs, Udasi, Sevapanthi and Taksal. They are sampradayas because they have parampara. Jathas are man made organisations with no direct historical link with Maharaj

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Sat Sri Akal:

So, Dasam Granth was present in 1699? Nope. Guru Gobind Singh Sahib himself composed many small pothis with each Bani separate. So Jaap Sahib was separate from Chandi Charitar, which was separate from Tria Charitar etc. AFTER the death of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib, Bhai Mani Singh Sahib compiled all of the Banis of the Tenth Master into one granth, the Dasam Guru Da Granth.

This is why there was such an uproar during Massa Rangar's time. The Sikhs wanted to separate the Banis of Guru Gobind Singh from the Dasam Granth back to separate pothis. Upon going for their mission, Baba Mehtab Singh and Baba Sukha Singh made a deal: If they returned alive, the Dasam Granth would stay one; if they did not return, the Dasam Granth could be kept as one Granth. Since they were successful, the Granth stayed as one: The Dasam Granth.

This was researched by one Bhai Daljit Singh, who committed his life to Sikh literature study, indicating that the Dasam Granth did not exist then.

There are such things as Gutkas and Panj Pyare that have memorized Gurbani needed for Amrit Sanchar... :roll:

And where does this leave the Sarbloh Granth??? :shock:

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Guest Javanmard

Daljit SIngh's research is now quite old and inadequate as more effective and new research has been done on Dasam Granth by other scholars disproving his premises. Daljit SIngh is the guy every single anti-Dasam Granth person quotes... and there is really no one else around aprt from him that they quote. Some revolutionary work on Dasam Granth is going to appear within the next two years. This will be a bomb that will shake the SGPC's And AKJ's big time.

ps. It's not my own work so I am not talking about my work...

wait and see :wink:

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Some revolutionary work on Dasam Granth is going to appear within the next two years. This will be a bomb that will shake the SGPC's And AKJ's ass big time.

ps. It's not my own work so I am not talking about my work...

wait and see

Well, I hope it will be well researched and written.

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that is where the problem is with our youth today

Lasslesvari u said

"Some revolutionary work on Dasam Granth is going to appear within the next two years. This will be a bomb that will shake the SGPC's And AKJ's ass big time.

ps. It's not my own work so I am not talking about my work...

wait and see"

now wouldn't of it have been easier to say 'work on Dasam Granth

that will help in everyones understanding'

instead of making it a 'them us situation'

no other Singh is our enemy - don't see other Singhs as the oppenent in battle

if the work on Dasam Granth is being undertaken to help all all :)) chardi kalal

if it is being done with an ulterior agenda then i am Guru ji wouldn't be too happy.

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no need to: Jeevan Deol has already blasted his arguments already

You claimed in an earlier thread that Jeevan Deol did this "blasting" in the brief endnotes of his paper contained in 'sikh religion, culture and ethnicity'.

Perhaps for those of us not having access to SOAS library, or the £40 to buy the book, perhaps you could provide the gist of what you percieve Jeevan Deol's argument(s) to be, and how it refutes Daljeet Singh's contentions.

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