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Has everyone taken sides?


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vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

Am i the only one that still believes in one Sikhism for all? That doesn't mean to say that I profess to believe that Sikhs all look the same, or all behave alike, or all read the same daily prayers, or all follow the same rules.... What I mean is that I still believe that a person who follows Sikhism in their way and follows their ideals (ie general population, sevadaars, khalistani's, namdhari's, Nihangs, Nirmale, Akhand Keertani's, sgpc's, and any other Sikhs) is still a person I would talk to with as much respect as any other person. I have nothing against these people, I live my life and they live theirs. I will after all go away with only my karam and my conscience.

I have observed that in the last year everyone I know seems to have divided into groups and Sikhs in one group hate Sikhs in the other and do their best to spread rumours, threaten, swear at, insult, and back bite those other Sikhs that believe in a different way to them.

I have also noticed with hurt that people I still look up to and admire treat not only myself but others who believe in the same way as me differently to before.

Can it really have gone so far that Sikhs would threaten other Sikhs? Have we as part of a religion only a few hundred years old been so easily fooled and misguided by Kaljug?

I still maintain all my old connections and friends with the same love I had before this divide even if it is not returned.

Has everyone taken sides?

All those in England will know what I mean.

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

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Ur like me! I thought i was da only 1 out der dat thought dis! Boosted!! :yo:

I also believe is in one sikhi. Where all da same! Da Truth is Our Guru Gorbind Singh Ji didn't really favour any 1 (people) or different sect, he saw us all as 1, no 1 better den each other. Dispite wot u heard. Ne1 can b like da Nihangs or ne other sect if dey wanted 2. But y don't ppl combine all in2 1 which is sikhi :o . Den we can stand taller den b4 :D. We can brack down even more divisions and become 1. Becoming 1 is an idea of sikhi 2.

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"God :D is the Master Plan and the devil :twisted: is in the technicality's"

Basically, we forget the Master plan and sit and argue over issues that could be avoided, don't get me wrong i've had plenty of bunge :LOL: with regards to what is right wrong within sikhi etc but i found its like a :bling: with people as everyone takes sides depending of their own comfort zones(beliefs) and knowledge

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The question is quite simply, how are we to tolerate the intolerant?

I absolutlely agree, in essence, Sikhi is one cohesive whole, but strength lies in diversity.

To my mind there are two types of 'unity'. One is a unified group like Hitler set out, with everyone looking and thinking the same. In otherwords, its unified because everyone is the same. To maintain this you need very strict police, to reprimand the dissenters. We have one version of Sikhi like this and the police to go with it.

Another version of a unified group is the one that Guru ji created (through instigating different samprday), where it works as a cohesive organic whole, that is strengthened by it's diversity, dynamicism and adaptability. Currently in the UK there is an interest among some to rebuild this type of unity.

A strong team will have individuals with different specialisms, so that it can adapt to any situation. Sikhi is much the same. The only problem arises when one member of the team says 'I'm right and you are all wrong, if you don't do it my way, get out'.

Equally, things seem pretty divided now, but interest in all things puratan was bound to ruffle a few feathers, certainly when some of the viewpoints and practices of puratan Sikhi clash with modern day Sikhi.

I just hope it doesn't end up like northern ireland!!!!

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"Ek Pitta Ekas Ke Hum Barak"

a beautiful line........we are all the children of one akaal purakh. Regardless of whether we are part of any jatha or even faith we are still sons and daughters of one Akaal.........remember this

"Guraa Ik Deh Bujaee Sabhana Jeea Ka Ik Data So Mae Visar Na Jaee"

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Guest Javanmard

Dear Nihal Kaur

I think you need to make a distinction in your first post. You are putting all kinds of groups together that belong to different categories. There are two main categories

1. The sampradayas or orders: institutions set up by the Gurus to fulfill certain purposes and missions. There are four main sampradayas or orders: Udasis, Nirmale, Nihangs and Sevapanthis. These four orders have different maryadas that are only to be applied by the members of these orders. Not everyone is expected to be part of them to be a good SIkh. If the Panth were an army these orders would be special forces and officers. The sampradayas have a direct historical lineage that links them to the Gurus and which guarantees the orthodoxy of the institutions

2. The jathas or sects: they are man made groups with no direct historical link to the Gurus. AKJ, SGPC, Nishkam Sevak Jatha, Dodra, etc... are all sects. founded by men without any historical link or parampara with the Gurus. Doesn't mean their good or bad, just means they can't claim religiosu authority because they have not been founded by the Guru themselves. Certain groups like AKJ and SGPC expect everyone to be like them although they don't have authority or vidya. They'll refer to some dream the founder of their cult has had to legitimise their existence but we all know about dreams don't you, if not read Shakespeare Romeo and Juliet, Mercucio's passage on dreams....

Some of these sects have started propagating heretic beliefs in the Panth like doubting the Ragmala and Dasam Guru Granth and have shortened certain bani like Chaupai Sahib. As such they are to be considered as Ram Raie and kicked out of the Panth.

The fact that some of these groups hold the power in Amritsar doesn't mean they're right. When Guru Tegh Bahadar wanted to visit Harmandir Sahib he was prevented to do so by heretics who had won control over Harmandir Sahib....

Guru Gobind SIngh went to the extent of executing the masands who were extorting and torturing Sikhs in the name of the Guru...

The masands have come back to power...

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Guest Javanmard

Well the sampradayas being special orders you don't need to be part of them. Just do your simran and be a good person and that's enough.

But yes we will have to war it out between the sampradayas and the cults.

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when the shit hits that fan, we will become united. until then we practice our skills using verbal tactics at each other. Only problem is that some people take it too far and others take it to heart. Chill out, dont fight each other. Just cos you know how to fight that dont mean you know what to fight for!!

One thing we should all know is that, when the shit does hit the fan (which im sure it will, if this stuff continues), people need to sit down and forgive these minor differences and look at the big picture.

Im just a Sikh. You can label me what you wish.

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Guest BikramjitSingh

I believe that Sikhs should be united as one. But when you have people ready to spread misinformation about Sikhism, what are we to do ?.

You have someone on here that states that Udasis are a type of 'special forces' created by the Gurus. That's laughable but does this mean that in the interests of unity we should just let such people sprout their falsehoods.

Now it's well know that some persons on here have agenda. Namely spreading falsehoods against the Singh sabha movement, lying about the Singh Sabha scholars and promoting a view of Sikhi which is totally inconsistant with the teachings of the Gurus. This type of Sikhi ' sanatan' had an impact at a time when the Sikhs had lost their empire. When Brahmanical rituals were the order of the day, the Singh Sabha measured every ritual and belief using the Guru Granth Sahib. At the end of the day it is the Guru Granth Sahib that is our guide, the sampardays and the writing of the Nirmalas and the Rehatnamas are measured by what is written in the Guru Granth Sahib. If a Rehatnama states something that is against the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib then that piece of Rehat is discarded.

The Singh Sabha believed that the 'sanatan' type of Sikhi was the result of infliltration of Hindu beliefs into Sikhi. This started off ironically when the Sikhs were in power under Maharaja Ranjit Singh. Large numbers of non-Sikhs became Sikhs because they wanted to be indentified with the rulers. With them the brought all their old Hindu and Muslim beliefs and also their superstitions. For some on this forum this 'sanatan' Sikhi is true Sikhism and the Sikhs like the Singh Sabha who used the Guru Granth Sahib as their guide to decide what a Sikh should believe and not believe were just puppets of the British. Oh and the morality we have today is the result of the Singh Sabha imposing 'puritinical victorian values' into Sikhi. :roll:

Now the problem seems to be that those very people who espouse the 'diversity' of Sikhism also want those Sikhs who dispute whether the Dasam Granth in its entirity was written by Guru Gobind Singh or who have issues with the Ragmala should be thrown out of the Panth. So much for their belief in diversity.

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Guest Javanmard

Nihal Kaur wrote:

well that makes me feel left out. why can't i be part of a special order?

well if you want to be part of of one of them no one is preventing you from doing so :wink:

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"Ek pita ekas ke hum barak"

"The one Akaal is our father, we are the children of Akaal"

Remember this at all times....

heres a sakhi that a Nirmala Sadhu from Hushiarpur used to tell...

he said one day a young man asked a Saint, "What will happen if the Panth doesnt remain united?"

The Saint laughed and said, "Young-man you will see it with your own eyes."

A few days passed and the Saint told the youngman to get together as many dogs as he could...

These dogs were tied up and kept hungry for a day.

Then the Saint told the youngman to make a pateela of hot Kheer, and put it in the view of the dogs.

The Saint then told the youngman to let all of the dogs loose.

When the dogs were loose they were so hungry that some jumped in to the boiling hot kheer, other fought in between themselves and died fighting, and others were killed by others before they even took one step towards the kheer.

The youngman said, "what was that?"

The Saint smiled and said, "My son, if the panth fights amongst itself for leadership (boiling hot kheer) it will end up like these dogs. If only these dogs had united they could have all eaten the kheer....if only the panth could unite they could achieve anything."

AKAAAAAAL

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