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Guru Nanak a Muslim & Sikh view on Exorcisms/Devils/Magi


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Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Sat Sri Akaal.

Forgive me if these have already been asked.

My first question is regarding Guru Nanak Ji. From all accounts it seems as though Guru Nanak was born into a Punjabi Khatri (Hindu) family but rejected Hinduism from an early age.

However, from profiles of Guru Nanak which i have read he is said to have spent a number of years in West Asia where Guru Ji even attended 'Haj' in Mecca. Now, only Muslims are allowed to enter Mecca and this is something which is strictly enforced.

My question is (Maybe this is an easy question) was Guru Nanak a Muslim at some stage in his life? (Probably while he was in the Middle East.) I find it impossible that someone of Guru Nanak's character and status could have lied in order to get into Mecca, and as we know, only Muslims enter that city. My farther seems to remember being taught in school that Guru Nanak was a Muslim, even born as one, but i dont think he is remembering correctly.

My second question is regarding Sikhism's view on other-wordly things like Devils/Satan, Black Magic, Spirits, Possessions and Exorcisms.

I ask because there is more to life that meets the eye and science cannot explain or have the answer to everything. Also, the large majority of Human cultures all over the World have some form of fear or belief in Devils, Black Magic etc.

Also, i am planning (have been asked by friends) to go to a supposedly "haunted house" (some old mansion) with them which i think is in a forest out in the middle of no-where. Im told that this house has appeared on main-stream news and there have been many accounts of the place being "evil" or whatever. They want to stay in the forest over-night, thats not my kind of thing but a one-off i suposse is ok.

Does Sikhism accept that things like this exist or are they all fictional? If so, then why does Human nature and instincts insist otherwise.

Thanks.

PS, if these things do exist then i would like some info on how you should defend yourself. (If necessary).

Yeah i know that sounds like a weird question, but it had to be asked.

Sat Sri Akaal.

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However, from profiles of Guru Nanak which i have read he is said to have spent a number of years in West Asia where Guru Ji even attended 'Haj' in Mecca. Now, only Muslims are allowed to enter Mecca and this is something which is strictly enforced.

My question is (Maybe this is an easy question) was Guru Nanak a Muslim at some stage in his life? (Probably while he was in the Middle East.) I find it impossible that someone of Guru Nanak's character and status could have lied in order to get into Mecca, and as we know, only Muslims enter that city. My farther seems to remember being taught in school that Guru Nanak was a Muslim, even born as one, but i dont think he is remembering correctly.

Nope!

If I'm not wrong he did go to Mecca, on Bhai Mardana's request..

No he was not a Muslalman infact he was born in a Hindu Family but cannot be called either because:

I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.

SGGS pg 1136

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4065

I'll answer the rest later because of lack of time

Does Sikhism accept that things like this exist or are they all fictional? If so, then why does Human nature and instincts insist otherwise.

Fictional :)

we dont believe in black magic and so on.....

Human nature and instincts insist otherwise.

Provide referance :)

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Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Nope!

If I'm not wrong he did go to Mecca, on Bhai Mardana's request..

No he was not a Muslalman infact he was born in a Hindu Family but cannot be called either because:

SGGS pg 1136

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4065

I'll answer the rest later because of lack of time

I know Guru Nanak is neither a Hindu or Muslim, but possibly at one stage early in his life is what i meant. BTW, that quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib was written by Guru Arjan Dev.

Provide referance :)

No need to reference typical Human instincts and fears.

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Sat Sri Akaal.

Forgive me if these have already been asked.

My first question is regarding Guru Nanak Ji. From all accounts it seems as though Guru Nanak was born into a Punjabi Khatri (Hindu) family but rejected Hinduism from an early age.

Bro, according to the earliest records, known as the Janam Sakhis, he was never a Hindu. He rejected Hinduism or more accurately Vaishnavism (followers of the 'god' Vishnu) from day one.

However, from profiles of Guru Nanak which i have read he is said to have spent a number of years in West Asia where Guru Ji even attended 'Haj' in Mecca.

Bro, he did not go to Mecca on 'Haj' as such, he merely accompanied Bhai Mardana (a Muslim) to Mecca. He was assumed to be a Muslim by the Meccans because of his 'islamic' appearence, but he did not lie to anyone in order to gain entrance, also, I am not sure whether non-Muslims were barred from Mecca in those days, this may have been a recent phenomenon.

Now, only Muslims are allowed to enter Mecca and this is something which is strictly enforced.

It is nowadays, but it may have been different all those centuries ago.

My question is (Maybe this is an easy question) was Guru Nanak a Muslim at some stage in his life? (Probably while he was in the Middle East.) I find it impossible that someone of Guru Nanak's character and status could have lied in order to get into Mecca, and as we know, only Muslims enter that city.

Bro, he was never a Muslim and he did not lie. If he was granted entrance into Mecca then that was the fault of the Meccans and not of Guru Nanak. For example, if Guru Nanak was never asked whether he was a Muslim then why should he need to say anything?

My farther seems to remember being taught in school that Guru Nanak was a Muslim, even born as one, but i dont think he is remembering correctly.

This is not true. Guru Nanak was born in to a Vaishnava family, I hardly consider these people to be "Hindus" in the modern sense of the word. Guru Nanak was never initiated in to the Vaishnava faith (an old Aryan religion based on the vedic Aryan god Vishnu, unrelated to modern "Hinduism".) and insisted that "Truth" (Sat) was his religion, and "Truth" was his "God". (Satguru - True Guru)

My second question is regarding Sikhism's view on other-wordly things like Devils/Satan, Black Magic, Spirits, Possessions and Exorcisms.

I ask because there is more to life that meets the eye and science cannot explain or have the answer to everything. Also, the large majority of Human cultures all over the World have some form of fear or belief in Devils, Black Magic etc.

Bro, as a scientist myself, most of this stuff is total BS! Sikhism more or less agrees with Science but does not rule out some things such as spirits, ghosts, demons etc. but one who has faith in Waheguru (God) need fear nothing.

Also, i am planning (have been asked by friends) to go to a supposedly "haunted house" (some old mansion) with them which i think is in a forest out in the middle of no-where. Im told that this house has appeared on main-stream news and there have been many accounts of the place being "evil" or whatever. They want to stay in the forest over-night, thats not my kind of thing but a one-off i suposse is ok.

I have stayed in 'haunted houses' myself, nothing usually happens, and when it does, it is usually a rat or a bird making noise. Creeky floor boards are a result of temperature differential.

Does Sikhism accept that things like this exist or are they all fictional?

Sikhism does not rule out the possibility but says that these things are unimportant and have no relevence to the physical world, they can't harm you if you don't try and interact with them, that's assuming they exist in the first place.

If so, then why does Human nature and instincts insist otherwise.

Because human nature is imperfect and often irrational, why do you think that so many Hindus worship rats, cow dung, monkey sh*t, snakes and God knows what other crap?

Thanks.

PS, if these things do exist then i would like some info on how you should defend yourself. (If necessary).

Bro, remember that you are a fearless Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh, and do not fear anything because God is in your heart, and God is more powerful than anything. Trust me, I have been to many haunted houses and I am never afraid, because I know the truth, also I tend not to even acknowledge such garbage. When I am nervous or in doubt, I often think of Guru Gobind Singh and lose my 'fear' or 'nervousness'...

Yeah i know that sounds like a weird question, but it had to be asked.

Well, I hope I have been of help.

Sat Sri Akaal.

And you. By the way, Sikhs are not supposed to be superstitious, SGGS says it's all BS... anyway, have fun... :)

Kind Regards,

MI

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Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Sikhs are not superstitious

Forgot to mention that in previous post :)

True. Sikhs are not supposed to be superstitious, but in a sense any religion that discards superstitions is slightly contradiciting itself since God can be described as a supernatural force.

Anyway:

Bro, he did not go to Mecca on 'Haj' as such, he merely accompanied Bhai Mardana (a Muslim) to Mecca. He was assumed to be a Muslim by the Meccans because of his 'islamic' appearence, but he did not lie to anyone in order to gain entrance, also, I am not sure whether non-Muslims were barred from Mecca in those days, this may have been a recent phenomenon.

Ok, i see. Thanks for clearing that up.

It is nowadays, but it may have been different all those centuries ago.

Im pretty sure Mecca has been banned for non-Muslims since the city came under Islamic control.

Bro, he was never a Muslim and he did not lie. If he was granted entrance into Mecca then that was the fault of the Meccans and not of Guru Nanak. For example, if Guru Nanak was never asked whether he was a Muslim then why should he need to say anything?

I have never believed that Guru Nanak would have ever lied or deceived people, which is why i questioned whether or not he was a Muslim at some stage in his early life. Im sure your account of his accompanying Bhai Mardana to Mecca is where the confusion can end.

My farther being taught in school that Guru Nanak was a Muslim is not a freak accident. It appears as though many people have been taught the same. Even today, there are Muslims who consider Guru Nanak as a Muslim. Why i dont know....

This is not true. Guru Nanak was born in to a Vaishnava family, I hardly consider these people to be "Hindus" in the modern sense of the word.

Khatri or Vaishnava, both are now considered as "Hindu"... Whether they were originally apart of Gangeic Brahmin Hindusim/Brahmanism is for another debate.

Bro, as a scientist myself, most of this stuff is total BS! Sikhism more or less agrees with Science but does not rule out some things such as spirits, ghosts, demons etc. but one who has faith in Waheguru (God) need fear nothing.

I agree that most is fiction, but i dont rule out completely some stuff. Most fictions usually have their origins in reality, Black Magic and Voodoo for example, which Christianity, Judaism and Islam seem to accept the existence of, so do most Hindu sects.

Sikhism does not rule out the possibility but says that these things are unimportant and have no relevence to the physical world, they can't harm you if you don't try and interact with them, that's assuming they exist in the first place.

That is actually a very good point you made.

IBro, remember that you are a fearless Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh, and do not fear anything because God is in your heart, and God is more powerful than anything. Trust me, I have been to many haunted houses and I am never afraid, because I know the truth, also I tend not to even acknowledge such garbage. When I am nervous or in doubt, I often think of Guru Gobind Singh and lose my 'fear' or 'nervousness'...

I dont fear anything in that house or in the surrounding forest/wood. Although, im sure when the time comes i will be a little apprehensive about staying over-night in a forest where crazy stuff has happened to other people in the past.

And you. By the way, Sikhs are not supposed to be superstitious, SGGS says it's all BS... anyway, have fun... :)

Kind Regards,

MI

Thanks. Not sure how fun it will be tho staying up all night in a cold empty forest waiting around for nothing. Hopefully i will have a good clear view of the sky and the stars to help pass the time.

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Btw

first of all Janam SAkhis tell tht he wasn't a muslim

though he DID get his education from some muslims..

well no Janam Sakhis mention:

Circumcision

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/discussion....2F?OpenDocument

No Janam SAkhi mention he prayed 5 times a day

TOUGH SGGS teacher us not to keep fasts (against hindu and muslim teachigns)

hope that clears your querries

and please check out the link provided by Truth Singh ji

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Guest kaur1699

Fateh Ji,

Bro, remember that you are a fearless Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh, and do not fear anything because God is in your heart, and God is more powerful than anything. Trust me, I have been to many haunted houses and I am never afraid, because I know the truth, also I tend not to even acknowledge such garbage. When I am nervous or in doubt, I often think of Guru Gobind Singh and lose my 'fear' or 'nervousness'...

MI

Just wanted to say, until a short while back I used to be very scared of 'ghosts' and all things like that. Even though I have never experienced anything myself, there was always something that made me fear them.

Recently I was talking to a Phaji and this topic came up and he asked me if I loved Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and told me that they were always with me and that I had nothing to be scared off. From that moment, I have not been scared of any of these things. Guru Ji ang sang...

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Sat Sri Akal:

Consult Bhai Gurdas Sahib's Vaaran, Pauri 1. Guru Nanak Sahib indeed went to Mecca in the disguise of a Muslim of the times, but to teach a lesson. He did similar voyages to Hindu pilgrimage sites as well to teach.

(Source: http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?Sour...o=01&Line_No=32 )

In it is written:

baabaa fir maakae gayaa neel basathr dhhaarae banavaaree||

Donning blue attire then Baba Nanak went to Mecca.

aasaa haathh kithaab kaashh koojaa baa(n)g musaalaa dhhaaree||

He held staff in his hand, pressed a book under his armpit, caught hold of a metal pot and mattress.

bait(h)aa jaae maseeth vich jithhae haajee haaj gujaaree||

Now he sat in a mosque where the pilgrms (hajis) had gathered.

jaa(n) baabaa suthaa raath noo(n) vaal mehiraabae paa(n)e pasaaree||

When Baba (Nanak) slept in the night spreading his legs towards the alcove of mosque at Kaba,

jeevan maaree lath dhee kaerrhaa suthaa kur kuaaree||

the qazi named Jivan kicked him and asked who was this infidel enacting blasphemy.

lathaa(n) val khhudhaae dhae kiou(n)akar paeiaa hoe bajagaaree||

Why this sinner is sleeping his legs spread towards God, Khuda.

tta(n)go(n) pakarr ghaseettiaa firiaa maakaa kalaa dhikhaaree||

Catching hold of the legs he lynched (Baba Nanak) and lo and behold the miracle, the whole of Mecca seemed to be revolving.

hoe hairaan karaen juhaaree ||aa||

All got surprised and they all bowed.

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Guru Nanak, Gods messenger was sent to this world at the time of Kalyug(dark age) when people were not following Waheguru. God said to Nanak on the day of Revelation...

"Thou art welcome, O Nanak, that hath absorbed thyself in Nam.

Do go hence and do the work for which thou wast born.

People of Kalyug have adopted horrible practices and are

extremely degraded in mind.

They worship a variety of gods, have forsaken the Name

and are immersed in sin.

Go thou, spread Love and Devotion to the Name, and lighten

the burden of the earth.

Go thou, and glorify the name of God and destroy

hypocrisy."

Guru Nanak believed that every path(religion) led to one path(God).

About Guru Nanak being Hindu/Muslim, he was neither both of em. Guru Nanaks religion was 'Truth' (God), and with his every breath chanted 'Waheguru'.

Guru Nanak travelled the world by foot, with his muslim companion Mardana. In the Janamsakhi it is recorded that Guru Nanak did visit Mecca(where non-muslims are not allowed to visit). The Guru being Gods messenger went everywhere even in Mecca. Remember the Guru was sent and instructed by the Supreme Almighty, no HUMAN BEING could do anything about it.

The whole purpose of Guru going Mecca was to teach the Muslim brothers and sisters. As you probably know Muslims worship in the direction of Mecca, Kabba ' house of God'. Guru Nanak pointed his feet towards the kabba while lying down and the Muslims got angry saying "how dare you point your feet towards the house of God." So Guru Nanak calmly replied " Point my feet where God, is not." As the muslim would move the Gurus feet, so would the Kaaba. Later those Muslims fell to the Gurus feet and realised God is everywhere and were blessed by the Guru.

'God appoints holy men as witnesses, To show that He is not far from us.'

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